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Old 1 Week Ago (10:53 AM).
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This could have fallen under most of the categories here, to be honest - kind of seeking advice but also just want to open up the discussion more broadly

I'm more or less venting right now so imma put my own personal experience in a spoiler for those who care to read it, but since I'm rambling-venting right now I know it's gonna be long and if you don't care for it, you can skip down to the general questions
Spoiler:
Let me preface this by saying I don't think my dad is a bad person. Far from it. I think he grew up in a culture and time where discrimination against "our kind" was a real issue and he has never let that go (or at least grew up hearing about it from his family, because I know he has never personally experienced any of the major wars or events he cites when he tries to justify why he doesn't like x groups of people).

I also want to say I know he absolutely sounds like a racist sitcom character, and it's almost comedic to me sometimes if he weren't my dad and that this ACTUALLY affects him so much.

The past couple months I've been spending more time with my dad - growing up, he was your typical immigrant father working really hard to provide for his family, and as a result I don't really talk to him. Also like your typical strong patriarchal figure, he was very much a "what I say goes" kind of dad and even when we talked there wasn't much room for discussion or my opinions.

It's a little different nowadays, he's been wanting more of a relationship with his kids, and being an adult now I am not afraid to voice my opinions to him anymore, and this leads to a lot of arguments because fundamentally we have very different ways of thinking and very different values. I was born and raised in Canada, and he is from Hong Kong. Even though he has lived here for more than 40 years, he has never really tried to integrate or be Canadian in any sense, only really socializes with "his kind", and from recent discussions, disturbingly close-minded and racist, something that kind of shocked me to find out.

Now, he's not "racist" in the sense that he openly discriminates against people of other races, it's kind of a quiet racism that you won't know about until you really talk to him and delve a bit deeper. I always knew growing up he has some preconceived notions of people from other races, and I just shrugged it off as that is how people from his generation think, and I didn't think it was such a large part of his daily processes, but actually talking to him about race issues deeply disturbs me in a way I can't really describe. Him being racist is not really news to me, but I never knew the extent of it, how he feels and how he sees the world on a daily basis.

So what is he like? He's fiercely protective of "his kind", even if he doesn't know someone very well, or the details of a situation, he will flock to defend the Chinese side over x race. He holds this "white people are trying to hold us down" mentality very strongly, and trying to talk to him about it is incredibly frustrating. He will turn any issue that involves people from another race into a race issue. This Huawei situation, for example, is something he is EXTREMELY invested in, because he sees it as a "China is being bullied by other countries because racism" kind of thing. I've openly called him racist before, which he staunchly denies, possibly because he doesn't really understand what that means, but he maintains that he is not discriminating against other people (even though he frequently does), he only thinks the way he does to "protect" himself, and I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to always feel like everyone who is not Chinese is out to get you.

I feel like he almost embraces the whole "victim" aspect of being a minority here, even though... we live in Vancouver, it is really not so bad. Have I encountered racists who treat me like muk? Yes, and I attribute that to that person being a mukty person. I'm not going to be more wary of THEIR ENTIRE RACE as a result, which is exactly what my dad does.

This affects me, my brothers and my dad on more personal levels too - my dad openly says he would STRONGLY prefer if we dated within our race but none of us currently do. I didn't realize it affected him SO much but he is very, very against interracial relationships, which has also been very hard to talk to him about. He says it breaks his heart to even imagine that he might not have "pure" Chinese grandchildren one day, and he likes to pull the "oh but the language/cultural barrier" reasoning from time to time too, even though I know his English is fine and if he really wanted to have a good relationship with my boyfriend or my brothers' girlfriends, he absolutely could. He just won't try.

It doesn't really make me feel good to argue with him about stuff like this. He can't change my mind and I can't change his so I would really rather just avoid this kind of discussion, but he frequently drags it out of me and it's never pretty. He does this with every other topic too, none of which we agree on - religion, politics, social issues, you name it.

My dad is a spectacle. Talking to him is like stepping into the past, and it's frightening there are still people that think like that, let alone my own dad.

If anyone has experiences with someone like this, what do you think the best approach is?

General questions:

Do you have any experiences with older relatives, acquaintances or maybe even people from your own generation that have really racist, close-minded views (I know my topic pertains more to race, but feel free to talk about other forms of bigotry you have encountered)? How do you deal, especially in a kind of relationship you can't really walk away from?
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Old 1 Week Ago (12:47 PM).
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Yeah, my grandmother is a bit of an "old school" racist. I can say though, that she's gotten better-ish.

She's a lovely lady, extremely kind and generous, but she really buys into all the Islamaphobic propaganda and similar conspiracy bullmuk. In the past she's been pretty bad with Africans as well as Arabs but she's improved with the former... and gotten worse with the latter.

I guess I was kind of the reverse to you because at first I stuck to my mum's urging and just let it go by but after a while it's just started annoying me so much that I will adamantly correct her every time she brings it up and I have no intention of stopping. For the most part, she chalks it up to me being young and ignorant or whatever but - at risk of sounding a bit like a dick - she also knows I'm smarter than she is so I hold out hope that she'll eventually have to give in to the plain facts and logic I prefer to debunk her fallacies with.

If you want to avoid conflict, then honestly the best option is to do what I used to do and just ignore it and do your own thing. I don't have any advice for changing minds because I'm still working on that myself. I know it's hard to deal with so best of luck and if you ever need to vent about it I'm usually around.
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Old 1 Week Ago (6:12 PM).
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My grandfather says old-school racist things, but he doesn't think anything of it. He doesn't even know they are racist. It's mostly just a product of how he grew up... I don't think he actually holds discriminatory views.

I had a friend in high school, not with old-school racism, but I guess a sort of "old-school homophobia." He was convinced that if you were gay or bi you would "grow out of it."
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Old 1 Week Ago (8:38 AM).
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Now I'm from a very different background from you so I am fully open to being challenged on the opinions that I present. I am in no way trying to say I fully understand a worldview of a Chinese person or that all Chinese people think the same way but I do feel there is a truth to Chinese people being overly defensive about China which to me is not justifiable because that same courtesy is never given to other nations.

If you're going to defend your nation at all costs and that nothing negative should ever be said about it ever, then you better feel that way about every nation. (Which is a whole other argument/problematic situation but I hope you can see the specific hypocritical point I'm trying to get at)



I'll start with the Huawei thing since you mentioned that and as I posted a response in a thread here on this forum concerning, what I feel is, the general Chinese reaction, and how I feel that reaction is problematic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yue Han View Post
The Chinese government has also been detaining Canadian nationals on the apparent grounds of "risks to national security" as a blatant retaliation to this occurrence. Justin Trudeau has obviously called for the release of the Canadian nationals and very rightly labelled their detainment as arbitrary.

Because of Trudeau's very justified reaction to China throwing its toys out of the pram the Chinese Ambassador to Canada, Lu Shaye, has claimed that this reaction is because of white supremacy! Claiming that Canada feels that Chinese people do not deserve to be treated with dignity. Even though Lu himself basically admits in a comment that this was done as a retaliation:

"I have recently heard a word repeatedly pronounced by some Canadians: bullying. They said that by arresting two Canadian citizens as retaliation for Canada’s detention of Meng, China was bullying Canada. To those people, China’s self-defense is an offense to Canada. If someone slaps you on your left cheek, give him your right cheek, they told us. But I have never seen them doing as they said."

Beijing even recently accused Sweden of human rights violations (Beijing accused Sweden of human rights violations (!) ). A family of Chinese tourists were apparently mishandled by the Swedish police and hostel staff (they weren't and the tourists are abominable people; the video-graphic proof is out there). But of course because it's Chinese nationals Beijing demands an apology from Sweden no matter how the tourists behaved.

The lack of self awareness regarding how Chinese people/officials feel about how nationals of other countries should respect China and the 'Chinese way'...yet China apparently has no obligation to return the favour is astounding.
A significant reason for why this kind of mind-frame exists is, in my opinion, because of the extremely over patriotic/nationalistic culture of China, how controlled the media is, how propaganda is shoved down Chinese people's throats constantly, the ever growing cult-leader-worshipping-esque behaviour towards "Xi Dada".

The Guardian wrote a great article on this phenomenon how it is a China thing more than in any other country.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/08/you-should-consider-our-feelings-for-chinese-students-the-state-is-an-extension-of-family


Now the opportunities I've had in China have been amazing and I'm so grateful for what I've been able to do with my life from being based in this country, I do recognise that. Just wanted to clarify that before I go into this next part on how I personally feel living here, and how I feel like I'm perceived by the average Chinese person who has never had any interaction with people from other countries.

To put it bluntly, to many people here, I don't feel like I'm seen as a real person. A lot of the time I feel like a zoo animal, a thing whose only purpose is to entertain the viewer and nothing more.

I absolutely psyducking hate the word 外国人 (foreigner) and how it's used/defined in the minds of almost everyone here. Foreigner to Chinese people doesn't mean 'person who is not in his or her own country'. In almost everyone's mind here it literally means not Chinese. Even the most kindhearted and open minded Chinese people I've met all use this word in a way that means 'non-Chinese' person. I realise China is nowhere near as multicultural/multi-ethnic as the UK and therefore the word '外国人' doesn't have near as many negative connotations in Chinese as 'foreigner' does in English, but at the same time it shows there is this divide of there being only 2 things in this world: Chinese and... foreign.

I personally feel a big reason for this kind of mind-frame existing is the constant nationalistic propaganda. Chinese people are taught they are the best people in the world and they believe it. And why wouldn't they? The media is highly monitored so it's hard to find negative views about China, and it all sounds very nice being told how amazing your country is all the time.

...Anyway on racism. Because of all this do I think this kind of attitude is racist? Absolutely. But do I feel it is intentional? Most of the time, absolutely not. It's racism in the same way I, and a lot of other white people say our grandparents are 'racist'. It's mostly down to a lack of proper education on these topics (definitely not trying to say anyone is stupid), then when people are set in their ways/views getting defensive of the way they've viewed the world for so long is understandable.

It really annoys me but at the same time I've chosen to live here (for now), and besides all this my life is good and many Chinese people I know/have met are absolutely wonderful (regardless of if they think 外国人 literally = not Chinese). I'm not going to go on WeChat all the time and make whiny posts about 'poor little white me' having to live in 'big bad China' because: it's not worth it, it is most definitely the wrong approach and would cause more harm than good, and there's actually a lot I do like about this country. Celebrate the differences, don't lament over them etc.

...

Sorry that I kind of took over your thread but I kind of thought since I'm kind of in a contrasting situation to you/your father it might be somewhat helpful to you?

On your father from what you've said I'd say he's just stuck in his ways unfortunately. I'm not going to say I get it, but, to a degree, I do understand it and where that kind of attitude comes from. And on the other side of the coin there are definitely people from western countries that come over here, complain about everything, never socialise with anyone local and never try to understand why things are the way they are and that everyone is just 'out to get them' for no reason. Then if one Chinese person does something annoying it's 'urgh THESE people and THIS country!!!!!!!'. It's easier than you think to fall into that trap and I have had to tell myself off a few times for thinking that way at times. I'm sure in parts of this (what has turned into an essay... sorry for that) I possibly could come across as bratty.

Again hope this is somewhat helpful and not offensive to you and I'm more than willing to be challenged if you have any criticisms of my views.
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Old 1 Week Ago (11:41 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by for him..
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    My family (the older generation anyway) are very anti-black. If you were to meet them in public, they would seem like nice people, but behind closed doors their anti-black sentiments do come out. I see this more on my mother's side, especially lately. My uncle and aunt welcomed a daughter a few years ago, and she is at the age where she is starting school. I have encountered more anti-black sentiments from them when it comes to their daughter than I have ever had in my entire life. During New Years, my uncle scolded his daughter when she was about to walk out on her own with: "Hey. It's dangerous out there. You might get shot by a Mexican or an African-American dude."

    Yeah...he's terrible. Doesn't really help he is insanely homophobic either, but that's not a discussion for here.


    My dad's side is better. (Besides my dad and his older brother). They came to the U.S. when they were fairly young, so most have grown out of it. But anyway, both sides of my family arrived in the U.S. when anti-black sentiments were extremely high in the U.S. with the overexposure of black and brown bodies in the media in regards to the War on Drugs/War on Crimes. (Thanks Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, Bush).

    My family is Vietnamese, so they also have anti-Chinese sentiments as well. My grandma is afraid of China. My aunts and uncles on my mother's side are also very bitter about China as well because of the Vietnam war and the border disputes that have occurred throughout the years. My dad's side has gotten over it to some degree, but they are only comfortable with ethnic Chinese families who migrated to Vietnam.

    Sadly, I don't have any advice for you. I have never approached my family about any of the issues they have. There is just a lot of emotional labor involved with that conversation, and I am not sure I want to ever get involved with that. Plus, once I come out to them, I doubt I will ever be welcomed by them.
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    Old 1 Week Ago (3:59 AM).
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    Juno Juno is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Somewhere_ View Post
    My grandfather says old-school racist things, but he doesn't think anything of it. He doesn't even know they are racist. It's mostly just a product of how he grew up... I don't think he actually holds discriminatory views.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
    Yeah, my grandmother is a bit of an "old school" racist. I can say though, that she's gotten better-ish.
    My dad had me pretty late, so I'm not surprised if he is around the same age as your guys' grandparents (he's often closer to my friends' grandparents age than their parents), so it makes sense his thoughts are more in line with those of that generation.

    Your grandma sounds a lot like my dad in a lot of ways - also very kind and generous, if a bit stubborn and set in his ways. He also uses the "young and ignorant" argument on me all the time, and it's pretty frustrating because he'll deflect everything with "you have no experience in life, what do you know".

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Yue Han View Post
    If you're going to defend your nation at all costs and that nothing negative should ever be said about it ever, then you better feel that way about every nation. (Which is a whole other argument/problematic situation but I hope you can see the specific hypocritical point I'm trying to get at)

    I'll start with the Huawei thing since you mentioned that and as I posted a response in a thread here on this forum concerning, what I feel is, the general Chinese reaction, and how I feel that reaction is problematic.
    Yeah, his reactions to a lot of my/other peoples' criticisms are just really strange to me. Bit of a tangent/rant here but my dad can't seem to separate my criticisms of the Chinese government from just "Chinese" - if I disagree with what the Chinese government does he takes that as a very personal attack and an attack on my own heritage, which is not true at all. I have never been ashamed or unhappy to be Chinese, and it kinda hurts when he accuses me of being a "banana" and "White on the inside", or dismisses what I say as just "well I guess you love White people" (even if I just broadly defend something happening in Canada or the States and that has no direct relation to "being White" - I'm not particularly patriotic at all but having never lived in China, I consider Canada my home and my country, it is not "White man's country" to me) even though I speak/read/write my language as well as someone who does not need to use this language on a regular basis can, I very much identify as Chinese and appreciate my culture, I just don't agree with a lot of things the Chinese government does. And the fun thing is he scrutinizes everything Trudeau and Trump does on a whole other level, which I think is a good thing! I just wish these standards applied to Xi Jinping but for some reason, they psyducking don't!

    I'm like I literally... just want you to look at people as people instead of putting them in these boxes and judging them based on the boxes, not who they are. Get to know people. That's all I want. I don't think all White people are great, just as I don't think all Chinese people are great. Or bad. 'Cause apparently my criticisms of some things the Chinese government does means I hate my own people and I'm antagonizing them.

    Our latest discussion has made me lose hope 100% that I can ever have a civil discussion with him about stuff like this where we will both walk away happy or having learned something.

    A few nights ago, he was trying to justify his discrimination with the Opium Wars and how the evil white men gave us all these drugs like 200 years ago, right? So my brother was like "well, if you're going to reference history from the 19th century, here is a more modern issue that's comparable - the fentanyl problem in China and how they are the main exporters of this deadly drug to the US and Canada". He said he hadn't heard of this problem and asked us for sources, which we provided - even Xi Jinping has acknowledged this issue in his country at like a cabinet level, right? It's undeniable large quantities of fentanyl are coming from China.

    He says we can't prove the Chinese are doing this.

    He refuses to believe Chinese people are doing this. He references the Canadian drug dealer detained in China right now, and says how do we know it's not people like him who are just going to China to make these drugs and send them back here. I was at a complete loss for words - he's right though, I have no proof that directly says people who are ethnically Chinese are making these drugs, I only know it's coming from China, so that doesn't mean anything to him. And maybe he's right, maybe it's not ethnically Chinese people doing this, but the point is the Chinese government is not doing enough to stop this. You can sell these drugs online in China, for psyduck's sake.

    So that was fun. Good talk.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Yue Han
    A significant reason for why this kind of mind-frame exists is, in my opinion, because of the extremely over patriotic/nationalistic culture of China, how controlled the media is, how propaganda is shoved down Chinese people's throats constantly, the ever growing cult-leader-worshipping-esque behaviour towards "Xi Dada".
    ...
    I personally feel a big reason for this kind of mind-frame existing is the constant nationalistic propaganda. Chinese people are taught they are the best people in the world and they believe it. And why wouldn't they? The media is highly monitored so it's hard to find negative views about China, and it all sounds very nice being told how amazing your country is all the time.
    Even here in Canada, my dad exclusively listens to the Chinese radio and watches Chinese news - this is all produced right here in Vancouver but I feel like it's kinda biased? Not as objective as it could be? Which isn't really news (ha), a lot of media and news are biased in some way or another, but I can't help but notice the cherry-picking of the news they do talk about. Like lately, every psyducking morning any updates on the Huawei situation are top priority and breaking news (all presented in favour of Huawei, of course - they are the pinnacle of innocence) before anything else, like yeah people are dying or whatever but MENG WANZHOU IS SUING THE MOUNTIES LETS TALK ABOUT THAT FOR 10 MINUTES

    Quote:
    I absolutely psyducking hate the word 外国人 (foreigner) and how it's used/defined in the minds of almost everyone here. Foreigner to Chinese people doesn't mean 'person who is not in his or her own country'. In almost everyone's mind here it literally means not Chinese. Even the most kindhearted and open minded Chinese people I've met all use this word in a way that means 'non-Chinese' person. I realise China is nowhere near as multicultural/multi-ethnic as the UK and therefore the word '外国人' doesn't have near as many negative connotations in Chinese as 'foreigner' does in English, but at the same time it shows there is this divide of there being only 2 things in this world: Chinese and... foreign.
    Absolutely. I'll be honest, I grew up speaking Chinese so I don't really take apart words character by character as much as someone who learns the language later in life does, so yeah, even I just use this as a word broadly to refer to someone not Chinese. It's not considered a slur, it's polite, even, compared to other words we use to talk about "foreigners", haha. I generally don't use it very often because if I need to reference race in any way I would just 西人 or 黑人 etc, there are fewer instances where I just need to say "this person is not Chinese". But yeah, I know what you're getting at - China's inherently quite homogeneic and there is a huge sense of "us vs. others" even if it's just on a very superficial level, like "you look like us" or "you don't look like us".


    Quote:
    ...Anyway on racism. Because of all this do I think this kind of attitude is racist? Absolutely. But do I feel it is intentional? Most of the time, absolutely not. It's racism in the same way I, and a lot of other white people say our grandparents are 'racist'. It's mostly down to a lack of proper education on these topics (definitely not trying to say anyone is stupid), then when people are set in their ways/views getting defensive of the way they've viewed the world for so long is understandable.
    It is understandable, and even though it gets heated I absolutely do try my best to take a step back and look at what makes him the way he is, even though it really frustrates and saddens me that he is not willing to do the same for me. I also justify and attribute it to, yes, largely a lack of education, which I do not blame him for at all. He did not have a good childhood and left school at 15 to work so he can provide for his mom, and he has never stopped working. He worked his ass off to get here so my brothers and I can live this cushy life so I also try not to be too hard on him if my emotions allow it, I can't imagine what it's like to use all your time, sweat and tears to raise these kids that won't do what you want them to and will argue with you about everything and call you a racist, haha. From that perspective I do feel bad we can't see eye to eye on so many issues.

    Quote:
    Sorry that I kind of took over your thread but I kind of thought since I'm kind of in a contrasting situation to you/your father it might be somewhat helpful to you?

    On your father from what you've said I'd say he's just stuck in his ways unfortunately. I'm not going to say I get it, but, to a degree, I do understand it and where that kind of attitude comes from. And on the other side of the coin there are definitely people from western countries that come over here, complain about everything, never socialise with anyone local and never try to understand why things are the way they are and that everyone is just 'out to get them' for no reason. Then if one Chinese person does something annoying it's 'urgh THESE people and THIS country!!!!!!!'. It's easier than you think to fall into that trap and I have had to tell myself off a few times for thinking that way at times. I'm sure in parts of this (what has turned into an essay... sorry for that) I possibly could come across as bratty.

    Again hope this is somewhat helpful and not offensive to you and I'm more than willing to be challenged if you have any criticisms of my views.
    Absolutely! Thank you for your response, it was very insightful, and while I kinda suck at responding to large chunks of text (especially on forums) I hope I responded to everything I wanted to adequately and I appreciate your "essay" response tbh lol. I know I didn't respond to every point but a lot of it was just "yes, agree, next" so I didn't put it down, and my thoughts are kinda all over the place anyway.

    To be quite honest, I feel like you have experienced more of the "real" China than even my dad has. Like I said, he's from Hong Kong and back in the day, that was also British Hong Kong, so I don't think he has ever even lived in communist China. He came here before he turned 20 and has lived most of his life here, and that's why I find it so bizarre he's so radically "nationalistic" towards a country he has so little experience in. He visits Hong Kong frequently and of that time he might spend a little time in China, but that is not even remotely comparable to actually experiencing what it's like living there.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by for him. View Post
    My family (the older generation anyway) are very anti-black. If you were to meet them in public, they would seem like nice people, but behind closed doors their anti-black sentiments do come out. I see this more on my mother's side, especially lately. My uncle and aunt welcomed a daughter a few years ago, and she is at the age where she is starting school. I have encountered more anti-black sentiments from them when it comes to their daughter than I have ever had in my entire life. During New Years, my uncle scolded his daughter when she was about to walk out on her own with: "Hey. It's dangerous out there. You might get shot by a Mexican or an African-American dude."

    Yeah...he's terrible. Doesn't really help he is insanely homophobic either, but that's not a discussion for here.


    My dad's side is better. (Besides my dad and his older brother). They came to the U.S. when they were fairly young, so most have grown out of it. But anyway, both sides of my family arrived in the U.S. when anti-black sentiments were extremely high in the U.S. with the overexposure of black and brown bodies in the media in regards to the War on Drugs/War on Crimes. (Thanks Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, Bush).

    My family is Vietnamese, so they also have anti-Chinese sentiments as well. My grandma is afraid of China. My aunts and uncles on my mother's side are also very bitter about China as well because of the Vietnam war and the border disputes that have occurred throughout the years. My dad's side has gotten over it to some degree, but they are only comfortable with ethnic Chinese families who migrated to Vietnam.

    Sadly, I don't have any advice for you. I have never approached my family about any of the issues they have. There is just a lot of emotional labor involved with that conversation, and I am not sure I want to ever get involved with that. Plus, once I come out to them, I doubt I will ever be welcomed by them.
    Oh, for sure. My dad's like that too - he'll literally preface a comment with "I'm not racist but" and then go on to say muk like "black people are more violent and dangerous, it's in their blood", and "I will have to accept it if you end up marrying a White person or x East Asian person who's not Chinese, but if they are Indian, black or x darker skinned race I am leaving this country for good". He's been doing that a lot lately - threatening to move back to Hong Kong because apparently as far as he's concerned, if he doesn't have "full-blooded" Chinese grandchildren by at least one of me or my two brothers, there's "nothing left for him here" and he'd rather spend the rest of his days in Hong Kong surrounded by his people.

    I totally get the racism against other Asian races thing too - my parents have stereotypes for all other Asian people, but yeah, the whole holding onto historical grudges thing kinda gets to me. My dad can be very anti-Japanese because of the Sino-Japanese wars too, and I can argue until I'm blue in the face about how stupid it is to blindly hate people today for something that happened so long ago to no avail.

    There absolutely is a lot of emotional labour involved and I'm always so emotionally exhausted aftera arguments like that so yeah, smart to avoid it when you can. It's just when he provokes me and starts talking about race when he KNOWS how upset it makes me and how these conversations always end, I really don't know why he does that and it's hard to control myself and just not respond sometimes.
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    Old 1 Week Ago (4:40 AM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Juno View Post
    Absolutely! Thank you for your response, it was very insightful, and while I kinda suck at responding to large chunks of text (especially on forums) I hope I responded to everything I wanted to adequately and I appreciate your "essay" response tbh lol. I know I didn't respond to every point but a lot of it was just "yes, agree, next" so I didn't put it down, and my thoughts are kinda all over the place anyway.

    To be quite honest, I feel like you have experienced more of the "real" China than even my dad has. Like I said, he's from Hong Kong and back in the day, that was also British Hong Kong, so I don't think he has ever even lived in communist China. He came here before he turned 20 and has lived most of his life here, and that's why I find it so bizarre he's so radically "nationalistic" towards a country he has so little experience in. He visits Hong Kong frequently and of that time he might spend a little time in China, but that is not even remotely comparable to actually experiencing what it's like living there.
    Oh well I'm glad you found what I had to say somewhat helpful. And on replying to large chunks of texts I did read your entire reply but I feel everything you typed was pretty self explanatory anyway haha.

    But yeah on the Hong Kong thing I did leave that part out of my original reply because it is fairly surprising/bizarre to me for your dad to hold those opinions and be from Hong Kong. Given just how many Hong Kongers are very anti-Chinese. But as you say he lived there when it was still a colony and possibly hasn't been able to see all the changes first hand with Beijing's ever growing presence? Mainland China is a completely different country in many respects, not least of all ideology, to Hong Kong. I go to Hong Kong a lot just to feel 'normal' haha.
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    Juno Juno is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Yue Han View Post
    Oh well I'm glad you found what I had to say somewhat helpful. And on replying to large chunks of texts I did read your entire reply but I feel everything you typed was pretty self explanatory anyway haha.

    But yeah on the Hong Kong thing I did leave that part out of my original reply because it is fairly surprising/bizarre to me for your dad to hold those opinions and be from Hong Kong. Given just how many Hong Kongers are very anti-Chinese. But as you say he lived there when it was still a colony and possibly hasn't been able to see all the changes first hand with Beijing's ever growing presence? Mainland China is a completely different country in many respects, not least of all ideology, to Hong Kong. I go to Hong Kong a lot just to feel 'normal' haha.
    I actually don't know what prompted that change! I talked to my mom and she thinks its because all his kids are now dating non-Chinese people so he's going extra pro-Chinese in hopes of... changing out minds? I don't actually know what his logic is, lmao. But yeah, I totally remember growing up and my parents, who are both from Hong Kong, frequently making jokes about or criticizing Mainland Chinese people. They're regarded as "lower class". My brother's ex was Mainland Chinese and our dad didn't like her either, so we're like "okay, in summation you'll only be happy if we're with people who are ethnically Chinese, and from Hong Kong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯".

    Man's mind is a puzzle and that is a very narrow criteria so I'm not gonna try, lol.
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