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6th Gen Primal Reversion Discussion & Speculation Thread

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Pepperton said:
Oh I like the idea of the Regi trio getting Primal forms! What do you think they'll look like, and what'll their stats be like?
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I see their best defensive stat becoming their offensive stat (for example Regice's large special defense will become it's special attack, but it's defense and attack could stay the same way they are) and a large boost to their speed (if they do have the 100 stat boost). That'll turn Regice into a special sweeper. With the ability Snow Warning.

As for Registeel since both it's defenses are equal and has somewhat decent offensive stats both could flip to make it a mix attack, and it could get a boost to it's new defenses (so that they won't be 75), and a lot of speed too. With the ability technician.

Primal Regirock will be the physical version of Physical Regice (since their normal selves are already like that). With it becoming a physical sweeper. Imagine a 200 attack pokemon with 150 speed... With the ability Sand Stream.

As for their master I see them boosting it's attack and speed without the flipping of any stats unlike I suggested with the trio. With 40 for attack (to match Regirock) and 60 in speed to out speed it's trio. Or maybe 45 for attack, and 55 for speed to beat Regirock in both (by five), also the ability sheer force.
 

Leaf Magics

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OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
I think that it'll be more limited than Megas are. Possibly only to the Weather trio. Perhaps the Regi trio and their master. Of course the creation trio, Lake trio, and their master too. With those being all of them I can see.
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I think and hope it will be limited to just Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza. If the creation trio gets anything, I think it should be Origin formes for Dialga and Palkia.
 
Pepperton

Pepperton

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Maybe Primal Dialga is introduced in canon games with its design the exact same as it was in spin-off? Palkia would probably have a relatively similar concept change, with minimal alterations.
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Pepperton said:
Maybe Primal Dialga is introduced in canon games with its design the exact same as it was in spin-off? Palkia would probably have a relatively similar concept change, with minimal alterations.
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As several of us have already said, Primal Dialga is Dark Dialga in Japanese. Meanwhile Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre are well Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre in Japanese. Meaning that Primal Dialga has no chance of becoming Dialga's Primal Reversion. Maybe they'll make a real Primal Dialga. It would be confusing for those of us in the English speaking countries (and those other languages that used a translation of Primal rather than Dark).
 
Pepperton

Pepperton

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I'm sure Game Freak is well aware of the confusion it causes, and may decide to simply use the design from the spin-off in canon, with minor alterations like I said, to accurately depict a devolution.
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
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Pepperton said:
I'm sure Game Freak is well aware of the confusion it causes, and may decide to simply use the design from the spin-off in canon, with minor alterations like I said, to accurately depict a devolution.
Click to expand...
That may just end up confusing Japanese fans and those who have the distinction between the two in their translations.
I think that the creation trio may end up getting something other than Primals to avoid any confusion. Or make Primal Dialga (in all languages) far more different looking so that it may not be confused with Dark Dialga in those parts where both would be called Primal Dialga.
 
Pepperton

Pepperton

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They may just completely ignore Dialga's 'Primal' form entirely and go with a different trio, like maybe the Johto dogs? No reason why I mentioned them, just the first trio that came into my head haha.
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Pepperton said:
They may just completely ignore Dialga's 'Primal' form entirely and go with a different trio, like maybe the Johto dogs? No reason why I mentioned them, just the first trio that came into my head haha.
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Maybe, but their original forms were likely weaker than how they look now.
Apart from the Regi trio, another normal trio I can see getting Primal reversions is the other trio Arceus made, the Lake trio. Hopefully with Mesprit as Psychic/Fire, Azelf as Psychic/Ice, and Uxie as Psychic/Electric (as a reference to the Tm's found by their lakes, as well as their colors).
 

Leaf Magics

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OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Maybe, but their original forms were likely weaker than how they look now.
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As long as they can absorb natural energy from the world, that shouldn't be a problem. I still don't think any Pokémon other than the weather trio should get Primal Reversions, but if any did, their original power (in the legends associated with them) would probably not matter.
 
Livewire

Livewire

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I'd be surprised if any Pokemon other than Groudon/Kyogre/Rayquaza got Primal forms. The weather trio are meant to be ancient, archetypal forces of nature. Jirachi, Deoxys, the Regis, etc., don't have that kind of association. So for them, at least, no primal forms. Megas, though, that's another story.
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Lance said:
I'd be surprised if any Pokemon other than Groudon/Kyogre/Rayquaza got Primal forms. The weather trio are meant to be ancient, archetypal forces of nature. Jirachi, Deoxys, the Regis, etc., don't have that kind of association. So for them, at least, no primal forms. Megas, though, that's another story.
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Jirachi and Deoxys may not be ancient but the Regis are. They were created deep in the past, maybe not as old as the Super Ancient Pokemon but they are ancient. Also Regigigas looks like it's rusted...
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Pepperton said:
Regis could get Primals, it makes more sense than most of the other Hoenn legendaries.
Click to expand...
And even the rest of the legends that aren't from Hoenn. Well maybe Mew since it is said to be the ancestor of all Pokemon (well I don't think it's the ancestor of the Weather, Lake , Creation trios, Deoxys (?) or Arceus but still).
 

Leaf Magics

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OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
And even the rest of the legends that aren't from Hoenn. Well maybe Mew since it is said to be the ancestor of all Pokemon (well I don't think it's the ancestor of the Weather, Lake , Creation trios, Deoxys (?) or Arceus but still).
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But why would Mew or the Regis make more sense than other Pokémon? Again, I don't think any Pokémon other than the weather trio should get Primal Reverions, but as far as I know, Primal Reversion simply requires that the Pokémon is capable of absorbing natural energy to enhance its own power.

One thing I'm wondering is, if any Pokémon other than the weather trio did get Primal Reversions, wouldn't we need to add categories to it? We know each Primal Pokémon so far has a unique icon (an uppercase omega for Groudon and a lowercase alpha for Kyogre), so if other Pokémon got them, what icon would they use? Would we have Alpha Reversions, Omega Reversions, and a possible third type of Reversion defined by Rayquaza? Would each Primal Pokémon get its own symbol?
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Leaf Magics said:
But why would Mew or the Regis make more sense than other Pokémon? Again, I don't think any Pokémon other than the weather trio should get Primal Reverions, but as far as I know, Primal Reversion simply requires that the Pokémon is capable of absorbing natural energy to enhance its own power.

One thing I'm wondering is, if any Pokémon other than the weather trio did get Primal Reversions, wouldn't we need to add categories to it? We know each Primal Pokémon so far has a unique icon (an uppercase omega for Groudon and a lowercase alpha for Kyogre), so if other Pokémon got them, what icon would they use? Would we have Alpha Reversions, Omega Reversions, and a possible third type of Reversion defined by Rayquaza? Would each Primal Pokémon get its own symbol?
Click to expand...

That's true. Rayquaza will likely have Delta, but I'm unsure if there are any others what their signs will be.

Also the reason why I bring up Mew and the Regis is because they are ancient. Which fits with the meaning of the word used in both Japanese and english as Ancient, Prehistoric, and first.
 

Leaf Magics

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Tao Dragon said:
I been thinking about this lately. Ok, for example if fossil pokemon were to get primal reversion they could indeed end up in alpha and omega symbols, or maybe perhaps they can have a generic symbol for example they could have a jurassic park symbol to indicate that they are fossil primal pokemon XD. In all seriousness they could have something like a helix fossil symbol. Mew can have, well, the myu symbol. Kyurem I said to be a weaker version of the original dragon formed when it's two energies left it's body. They can make a primal of it transforming it into the the OD once more and it could have the yin/yang symbol and so on. Though I would prefer for it to have a more exclusive transformation but which ever comes first.
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That last part is one of the reasons why I think Primal Reversion should be reserved to the weather trio. There are also all of the symbols that would come from every Pokémon that got one, all of which would represent the same kind of transformation.

About the original dragon of Unova. If it was brought back, I feel like it should be done by fusing Kyurem with Reshiram and Zekrom again, or by having Kyurem absorb some of their power. If it was through Primal Reversion, it would be more of a reconstruction of Kyurem's old body using new energy drawn from nature, and not really a return of the original dragon. It could even end up with a completely new form if it Primal Reversed.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
That's true. Rayquaza will likely have Delta, but I'm unsure if there are any others what their signs will be.

Also the reason why I bring up Mew and the Regis is because they are ancient. Which fits with the meaning of the word used in both Japanese and english as Ancient, Prehistoric, and first.
Click to expand...

I agree that it sounds fitting, but what the official site tells us is that Primal Reversion is a transformation caused by natural energy. It also says that the world was overflowing with that energy in ancient times.

Going by that, simply being ancient doesn't necessarily mean that a Pokémon is capable of Primal Reversion. Being ancient means that it would have been around during the time when the world's natural energy was strong enough to Primal Reverse, but it doesn't say anything about that Pokémon's ability to actually do so.

In other words, the name Primal Reversion seems to refer to it being a transformation only seen, or only possible, during the world's early days, rather than to it being only possible for ancient Pokémon.
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Leaf Magics said:
That last part is one of the reasons why I think Primal Reversion should be reserved to the weather trio. There are also all of the symbols that would come from every Pokémon that got one, all of which would represent the same kind of transformation.

About the original dragon of Unova. If it was brought back, I feel like it should be done by fusing Kyurem with Reshiram and Zekrom again, or by having Kyurem absorb some of their power. If it was through Primal Reversion, it would be more of a reconstruction of Kyurem's old body using new energy drawn from nature, and not really a return of the original dragon. It could even end up with a completely new form if it Primal Reversed.



I agree that it sounds fitting, but what the official site tells us is that Primal Reversion is a transformation caused by natural energy. It also says that the world was overflowing with that energy in ancient times.

Going by that, simply being ancient doesn't necessarily mean that a Pokémon is capable of Primal Reversion. Being ancient means that it would have been around during the time when the world's natural energy was strong enough to Primal Reverse, but it doesn't say anything about that Pokémon's ability to actually do so.

In other words, the name Primal Reversion seems to refer to it being a transformation only seen, or only possible, during the world's early days, rather than to it being only possible for ancient Pokémon.
Click to expand...

The official site's wording is actually quite confusing as it says"The Pokémon that appear on these titles' packaging are indeed Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, the Primal Reversion forms that have reclaimed their original power!" So it makes it sound like that power was their to begin with. But before that it mentions something about a transformation. It may be possible that the legends had the power of nature upon their creation, but began losing it, only to regain it when the history was being made, and then losing it again. This could be the third time they are entering these forms.

About the legend. It seems to have '...' to signify that there's more to the legend. Even the second part ends with the '...' meaning that the second '...' is probably Rayquaza's part of the legend and how they were stopped.
 

Leaf Magics

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OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
The official site's wording is actually quite confusing as it says"The Pokémon that appear on these titles' packaging are indeed Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, the Primal Reversion forms that have reclaimed their original power!" So it makes it sound like that power was their to begin with. But before that it mentions something about a transformation. It may be possible that the legends had the power of nature upon their creation, but began losing it, only to regain it when the history was being made, and then losing it again. This could be the third time they are entering these forms.

About the legend. It seems to have '...' to signify that there's more to the legend. Even the second part ends with the '...' meaning that the second '...' is probably Rayquaza's part of the legend and how they were stopped.
Click to expand...

The legend is quite clear in that the world's natural energy is what granted them the power they had. And that quote is referring to their Primal Reversion forms - those forms have regained the power to manifest themselves, the power they originally had when Groudon and Kyogre first transformed.
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Leaf Magics said:
The legend is quite clear in that the world's natural energy is what granted them the power they had. And that quote is referring to their Primal Reversion forms - those forms have regained the power to manifest themselves, the power they originally had when Groudon and Kyogre first transformed.
Click to expand...

Since Primal Reversion is similar to Mega evolution, and Mega evolution is the Pokemon's full, hidden potential coming out then Primal Reversion even if they aren't their original form are probably the legend's hidden power manifesting itself. However, I get a feeling only the Super ancient, ancient, and Pokemon connected to the ancient will be able to access the ancient natural energy. GKR are obvious by their in game title as Super Ancient Pokemon. Others that can probably access it could be the Fossil Pokemon. Also perhaps even those that evolve using 'Ancient Power'.

You recall how in XY they compared Mega stones to Evolution stones, and the theory (I think it was Sycamore's) that the Mega Stones are possibly transformed Evolution stones? Well I think that Primal Reversion may be that to the 'Ancient Power' evolutions, in that the legend gains access to a stronger version of the power the move gives. Speaking of Ancient Power the Weather trio all have access to the move. Perhaps using Ancient Power along with them having a special item attached will trigger it to Primal reverse (and Ancient Power can then transform into their signature move).
 

Leaf Magics

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OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Since Primal Reversion is similar to Mega evolution, and Mega evolution is the Pokemon's full, hidden potential coming out then Primal Reversion even if they aren't their original form are probably the legend's hidden power manifesting itself. However, I get a feeling only the Super ancient, ancient, and Pokemon connected to the ancient will be able to access the ancient natural energy. GKR are obvious by their in game title as Super Ancient Pokemon. Others that can probably access it could be the Fossil Pokemon. Also perhaps even those that evolve using 'Ancient Power'.

You recall how in XY they compared Mega stones to Evolution stones, and the theory (I think it was Sycamore's) that the Mega Stones are possibly transformed Evolution stones? Well I think that Primal Reversion may be that to the 'Ancient Power' evolutions, in that the legend gains access to a stronger version of the power the move gives. Speaking of Ancient Power the Weather trio all have access to the move. Perhaps using Ancient Power along with them having a special item attached will trigger it to Primal reverse (and Ancient Power can then transform into their signature move).
Click to expand...

That theory about Ancient Power is interesting. Ancient Power's description says that the Pokémon using it "attacks with a prehistoric power". Do you think that prehistoric power could be the same power that Groudon and Kyogre absorbed from nature to Primal Reverse?

If it is, maybe in the present that power is indeed weaker (the official site already seems to imply this), and drawing from it is only enough to produce an attack. I remember proposing a sort of energy siphon as the Primal Reversion item, and it would fit well with this theory. The Pokémon would need to amplify or store enough of the now-weaker natural power to be able to Primal Reverse.

Although there is also the attack Nature Power, which is directly stated to use nature's power just like Groudon and Kyogre. What do you think about it? None of the weather trio learns it.

Also, about Mega Evolution, maybe the difference it has with Primal Reversion is the source of the power the Pokémon uses to transform. Mega Evolution may use hidden potential that has always been within the Pokémon, while Primal Reversion may utilize energy that comes from an outside source; from the environment. This would also fit with the item for Primal Reversion being an energy siphon that channels the energy from the world into the Pokémon.
 
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