Competitive Battling Chat

Vrai · Aug 26, 2011

this thread needs a bump so it will come in the form of sunshine

have any of you really used drought lately? like, everyone's OH NINETALES SUX and yeah i have to say i agreed to that before too but drought is really damn impressive when you can win the weather war. there are tons of innovative ways to abuse it (ie CB ape, scarf darmanitan, volcarona, rotom-h, specs heatran...) and all of those mons are also basically win conditions if you can keep rocks off the field. seriously, tell me, what's going to take a cb ape flare blitz/cc? tentacruel, maybe? even the most physically defensive build isn't going to take more than two, three of them, max. and tentacruel/jellicent are 100% set-up bait for chestorest volcarona. other weather? ape/darmanitan scare out ttar and u-turn to safety (btw it does a chunk to offensive ttar and defensive are just spinnerbait anyway) and you can use your chlorophyll abuser of choice/rotom-h/whatever to take out toed. dugtrio is seeing a lot of usage on sun teams to trap drizzle/ss.

these fire attacks are just so insanely powerful in sun that honestly once you establish control over the weather you're nearly guaranteed to win. specs overheat and cb flare blitz are moves that nothing but heatran/dedicated wall are going to take very well at all. sun sounds incredibly anti-metagame and really just mashes every playstyle up against the wall. i haven't been able to play around with it really but i want you guys to try it and see what you think.

flamehaze94 · Aug 26, 2011

Sometimes you do't even need a Spinner because the offensive presence is just massive. You'll make the opponent think "Will I set up Rocks, or be forced to take boosted Flare Blitz/Fire Blast next turn?" Every Pokemon that abuses Sun is so freakin' strong that matches can often last under 20 turns if played correctly. +2 Infernape Fire Blast has a chance to OHKO Salamence and I think that speaks loads about the power of Drought abusers.

Since everybody and their mothers are sunning Shed Shell on Skarmory and stuff, Sun + Dragon should be pretty damn effective this metagame I think. When 5/6 of the team can just force Skarmory everytime, it becomes a liability to actually switch it into Haxorus or something, because a well timed double switch means somethings taking a boosted fire move and nobody likes that.

I still think Sand is the best weather, but Sun is UBER STRONG (ask Groudon :D)

Dark Azelf · Aug 26, 2011

Sash Dugtrio with Reversal is so annoying on drought teams with some way to stop rocks, it can switch directly into Tyranitar and KO it 100% of the time. Seems like Ooka was onto something after all haha. =P

Volcarona is seriously uber though lol and is IMO the most broken part of sun.

seriously, tell me, what's going to take a cb ape flare blitz/cc? tentacruel, maybe?

The only thing which can switch into ape in sun is uhhhh, flash fire chandelure probably lol. Tentacruel is pretty much OHKO'd and 2hko'd (iirc) by Iron Fist CC unless it uses the superior defensive spread with Bold, even then it cant take Flare Blitz's in the sun at all.

defensive are just spinnerbait anyway

Just a small nitpick, defensive Tar hits all the common spinners super effectively. ;x

Anyway, from using Sun, i REALLY like Victini also and im surprised it hasn't been mentioned. Its an excellent way to remove and lure in Tyranitar. I mean, with SR up CB V-Create frikkin 2hko's Tyranitar and it outspeeds non max speed ones after the speed drop. This is without sun. ._. U-Turn is also awesome as heck to get momentum and free switch ins for things like Dugtrio/Wobb and remove foe weather users like Politoed who is also prone to switching into Victini.

Regardless, sun teams have trouble switching in as most of the standard members are very frail so if you do switch in on the weakest members (see: Ninetales) you are probably going to put an ass load of offensive pressure on them. I do this with my team, double switches also create momentum for you and they will most likely lose a pokemon. Pinpointing Ninetales is also a great way to win vs drought (Tar, Pursuit, gtfo Ninetales). I also find priority to be amazing against everything bar Volcarona, a combo of Mamoswine and Scizor really create problems for chlorophyll abusers. I also doubt anything on sun can really take a hit from things like Heatran and they are most likely going to have to sac something. As said though, Dugtrio REALLY is an ass in that regard lol. Finally, faster mons/scarfers like Terrakion and Landorus <--sun doesn't want anything to do with these when they get in revenge kills. That and nothing can really beat dragons @ set up move lol.

champagnepapi · Aug 27, 2011

Yeah, I've fought plenty a sun team and Ape is just annoying. The good thing is that they spam U-Turn at first if they see a Latias [one of the best antisun Pokemon], so you if you can get up rocks, Ape can only switch in and out so many times and eventually realizes it has to use a move other than U-Turn, which is when you can lure it into using Close Combat and then sending in Gliscor to get things done. Volcarona really is annoying if played right, same goes for Sawsbuck, which can is only walled by things like Forretress and Skarmory at +2, the priority weak is a bit of a turn off, however.

Vrai · Aug 28, 2011

flamehaze94 said:
Sometimes you do't even need a Spinner because the offensive presence is just massive. You'll make the opponent think "Will I set up Rocks, or be forced to take boosted Flare Blitz/Fire Blast next turn?" Every Pokemon that abuses Sun is so freakin' strong that matches can often last under 20 turns if played correctly. +2 Infernape Fire Blast has a chance to OHKO Salamence and I think that speaks loads about the power of Drought abusers.

Since everybody and their mothers are sunning Shed Shell on Skarmory and stuff, Sun + Dragon should be pretty damn effective this metagame I think. When 5/6 of the team can just force Skarmory everytime, it becomes a liability to actually switch it into Haxorus or something, because a well timed double switch means somethings taking a boosted fire move and nobody likes that.

I still think Sand is the best weather, but Sun is UBER STRONG (ask Groudon :D)

Definitely. User Kinglypuff has gotten reqs with a no-spin support Volcarona w/ Morning Sun. It's crazy, being successful even without spinning.

Karpman said:
Yeah, I've fought plenty a sun team and Ape is just annoying. The good thing is that they spam U-Turn at first if they see a Latias [one of the best antisun Pokemon], so you if you can get up rocks, Ape can only switch in and out so many times and eventually realizes it has to use a move other than U-Turn, which is when you can lure it into using Close Combat and then sending in Gliscor to get things done. Volcarona really is annoying if played right, same goes for Sawsbuck, which can is only walled by things like Forretress and Skarmory at +2, the priority weak is a bit of a turn off, however.

Latias is definitely frustrating, yup. Particularly Sub+CM, setting up on most of the common Sun mons like Ninetales and Forry and Hitmontop etc. And tbh it really isn't that simple; when they can throw around U-turn like that, it honestly means in my opinion that they have the advantage. Gliscor is set-up bait for a properly EV'd Volcarona to an extent, as well as like Venusaur and quite a few other sun mons. I mean, +1 Fire Blast is something Gliscor won't take well (actually, just sun-boosted Fire Blast in general lol), whereas Gliscor can only um try to SD on it to get killed the next turn or to EQ it which doesn't do much with limited attack investment or Toxic it which is removed via chestorest. I mean those offensive Gliscors beat it with Acrobatics (which is why subvolca might be good i guess?) but still... I'd imagine that 4-attacks Sawsbuck is better than SD or 3 attacks + Aromatherapy. Sounds like an idea, anyway.

Dark Azelf said:
stuff

Yeah. Sun definitely isn't perfect but it's certainly abusable (and the weaknesses are actually plausible to cover too lol). Sash Duggy is neat and tons of people are using it, to my frustration. :|

Skuntank · Sep 3, 2011

I wasnt able to find answer from the chat on PO so ill ask here, can you set your tier to little cup? Because i have a little cup team made but it still says that i am using wifi NU. any help?

Perriechu · Sep 3, 2011

Skuntank said:
I wasnt able to find answer from the chat on PO so ill ask here, can you set your tier to little cup? Because i have a little cup team made but it still says that i am using wifi NU. any help?

Yes you can. There must be a Pokemon in your team that is in the NU tier. Maybe one of the Pokemon you have is a single staged Pokemon.

Skuntank · Sep 3, 2011

i am using, meowth, miefoo, charmander, munna, ferroseed, and taillow.
Does the amount of evs i use affect if it stays in the LC tier?

Perriechu · Sep 3, 2011

Skuntank said:
i am using, meowth, miefoo, charmander, munna, ferroseed, and taillow.
Does the amount of evs i use affect if it stays in the LC tier?

Hmm, you shouldn't be having a problem then. \; Try manually switching by going to Tiers > 5th Gen > LC Wifi it should put you in that tier.

Ev's have nothing to do with it. :)

champagnepapi · Sep 3, 2011

Skuntank said:
i am using, meowth, miefoo, charmander, munna, ferroseed, and taillow.
Does the amount of evs i use affect if it stays in the LC tier?

No they don't, but they do effect stats differently, you can read a guide on Little Cup here, which explains how EVs work. You should also make sure that all of your Pokemon are at Level 5 as the default for Pokemon Online is Lv. 100 and that none of them are holding Berry Juice, which is banned in Standard LC.

.Aero · Sep 3, 2011

Did you set your pokemon levels to 5? I assume that's your problem. If they're 100, it'll throw you into NU. It's in the advance tab where you can select the abilities and such, so just drop the level to 5.

Skuntank · Sep 3, 2011

yeah all my pokemon are at level 5. I found that it only shows my team as standard NU when im in the actual PO chatroom server thing. When i go to smogon and others, my team is always put into LC

Vrai · Sep 4, 2011

Skuntank said:
yeah all my pokemon are at level 5. I found that it only shows my team as standard NU when im in the actual PO chatroom server thing. When i go to smogon and others, my team is always put into LC

When it doesn't auto-switch, you simply have to go in and manually switch it. It shouldn't be much of a hassle.

Cycle · Sep 6, 2011

I haven't been coming around here recently, but I can tell that the community is expanding.

Anyways, school starts for me tomorrow so I won't be active much but I'll drop by from time to time to post and maybe I'll come back next summer.

Ho-Oh · Sep 14, 2011

Sooo Karpman said I should ask here ;x

Since I was enjoying writing the comments on that battle log I was thinking how about an event where you get some good and some not so good battlers together to battle in like "unusual" teams and post the logs of the battles without comments or anything, and get members to write commentaries on the battles and see who can make the most interesting battle log of the battles w/ emblem rewards or something?

What are you guys thoughts on it?

gee2k8 · Sep 15, 2011

This thought has plagued my mind alot over the last few generations of pokemon and i feel i need some views of others to ease my mind. The topic at matter is naturally competitive battling(this forum duuuu!) and how i feel things like shoddy and pokesav maybe ruined the competitive field for wifi users and people who like to grind out items, natures and ivs. To name a few: 'battle frontier items(takes alot of time) and pickup items that require lvl 81+ meowth etc'(i've raised 3 of these this gen to find 2 leftovers).
I personally have used shoddy a little bit in the past and what i found is that its not that enjoyable compared to breeding your own pokemon and using them in battle. When breeding/catching your own it feels like the hard work of gaining decent ivs and breeding for the right nature actually brings alot more satisfaction to a victory and makes you work harder in the future when a defeat occurs. What i am frustrated with is that i notice more and more that in wifi battles people are using a full team of shinies with what i can only guess are max iv'd pokemon. Obviously getting both in the game is a very possible task, but the amount of time and effort required just shows me they have been pokesav'd. On this note i was just wondering if anyone knew of a community that played the games for what they actually we're and had battles to a legit standard.

Zeffy · Sep 17, 2011

gee2k8 said:
This thought has plagued my mind alot over the last few generations of pokemon and i feel i need some views of others to ease my mind. The topic at matter is naturally competitive battling(this forum duuuu!) and how i feel things like shoddy and pokesav maybe ruined the competitive field for wifi users and people who like to grind out items, natures and ivs. To name a few: 'battle frontier items(takes alot of time) and pickup items that require lvl 81+ meowth etc'(i've raised 3 of these this gen to find 2 leftovers).
I personally have used shoddy a little bit in the past and what i found is that its not that enjoyable compared to breeding your own pokemon and using them in battle. When breeding/catching your own it feels like the hard work of gaining decent ivs and breeding for the right nature actually brings alot more satisfaction to a victory and makes you work harder in the future when a defeat occurs. What i am frustrated with is that i notice more and more that in wifi battles people are using a full team of shinies with what i can only guess are max iv'd pokemon. Obviously getting both in the game is a very possible task, but the amount of time and effort required just shows me they have been pokesav'd. On this note i was just wondering if anyone knew of a community that played the games for what they actually we're and had battles to a legit standard.

Dude, do you even know what simulation means? And some people can't afford the games you know, and their only resort is via a battle simulator like [Pokemon Online.

If you didn't notice, we also have a Wi-Fi battling community here, where most people do everything legit. And unlike you, not everyone has the time to breed and EV their Pokemon so they usually resort to trading or by the use of editing softwares, which as long as everything looks legit (meaning the Pokemon has the right amount EVs, knows move that the Pokemon naturally knows et cetera) is kind of legit in its own sense.

Forever said:
Sooo Karpman said I should ask here ;x

Since I was enjoying writing the comments on that battle log I was thinking how about an event where you get some good and some not so good battlers together to battle in like "unusual" teams and post the logs, and get members to write comments to those logs and see who can make the most interesting battle log of the battles w/ emblem rewards or something?

What are you guys thoughts on it?

First, this would be a great event! Second, I didn't know what it really meant until you explained it to me in the irc. ;;

But yeah, as long is the unusual team isn't as unusual like, say, 6 Magikarp vs 6 Feebas, then yeah I'd be all up for it.

.Aero · Sep 17, 2011

gee2k8 said:
This thought has plagued my mind alot over the last few generations of pokemon and i feel i need some views of others to ease my mind. The topic at matter is naturally competitive battling(this forum duuuu!) and how i feel things like shoddy and pokesav maybe ruined the competitive field for wifi users and people who like to grind out items, natures and ivs. To name a few: 'battle frontier items(takes alot of time) and pickup items that require lvl 81+ meowth etc'(i've raised 3 of these this gen to find 2 leftovers).
I personally have used shoddy a little bit in the past and what i found is that its not that enjoyable compared to breeding your own pokemon and using them in battle. When breeding/catching your own it feels like the hard work of gaining decent ivs and breeding for the right nature actually brings alot more satisfaction to a victory and makes you work harder in the future when a defeat occurs. What i am frustrated with is that i notice more and more that in wifi battles people are using a full team of shinies with what i can only guess are max iv'd pokemon. Obviously getting both in the game is a very possible task, but the amount of time and effort required just shows me they have been pokesav'd. On this note i was just wondering if anyone knew of a community that played the games for what they actually we're and had battles to a legit standard.

I honestly feel that Pokesav is dropping off the scene. RNG, which is a perfectly legal method of obtaining pokemon, offers a very easy way of getting shiny pokemon with perfect IVs. All it takes is a small program on the computer that can tell you at what times these pokemon will appear, and then some syncing with your DS clock on your part. It's not hard at all, and the majority of the pokemon wifi community views it as acceptable. It still takes work, as you'll have to EV the pokemon yourself and get correct moves and such, but it takes out that whole chance thing and puts more emphasis on training.

As for simulators, they aren't connected to Wifi in any way, aside from tier selection (which is a good thing in all honesty). What happens in Pokemon Online's (and Shoddy's in the past) metagame does not affect that of Wifi's. It's just natural for Wifi's metagame to evolve at a slower rate as well due to the fact that people don't want to constantly want to train new pokemon just to fit the metagame.

Regardless of your position on simulators, there is are quite a few positive aspects of them. One, as stated by Zeffy, is that they are free and offer ways for those who can't afford the games / DSs to play pokemon with other people easily. Another thing they do is save time. Say what you will, but if you think saving time is a bad thing, I can't imagine the amount of patience you have.

Takes this scenario for instance: I once made a team in Wifi, in which I decided to use Mismagius instead of Gengar on my team because she had Pain Split and I felt that was a selling point on her. Don't get me wrong, Mismagius is a good pokemon, but for the job I wanted her to do, Gengar was much more suitable. After training Mismagius, I realized she wasn't working with the team. I just basically wasted my time breeding, EV training, and getting the right moveset / item for her only to find out that she wasn't good enough for my team. Most teams however will require more tweaking than just one pokemon to be exceptional. Just imagine having to train over a dozen pokemon for just one team because you wanted to experiment.

Pokemon Online lets you do just that in mere minutes: experiment. It's a time saver and people who play Pokemon Online don't necessarily ditch Wifi. They like to test teams on the simulator, figure out what works, and perfect their team before spending time on it for Wifi. In which case, the majority of this community uses RNG for IVs, Nature, and Shininess, and then EV train and get moveset in a completely legitimate way. I can't imagine Pokesav is gone entirely, because I know it's not, but it's drastically lost popularity with how easy RNG is and the fact that it's accepted by the majority of the community as legal.

tl;dr - RNG is more popular than Pokesav now; Simulators are awesome because they can save time for experimenting with teams.

Vrai · Sep 17, 2011

Forever said:
Sooo Karpman said I should ask here ;x

Since I was enjoying writing the comments on that battle log I was thinking how about an event where you get some good and some not so good battlers together to battle in like "unusual" teams and post the logs of the battles without comments or anything, and get members to write commentaries on the battles and see who can make the most interesting battle log of the battles w/ emblem rewards or something?

What are you guys thoughts on it?

...I think it's an interesting idea but it's really not that easy to come up with a log if you weren't playing in it. How else can you expect to figure out what was going through the player's head?

gee2k8 said:
This thought has plagued my mind alot over the last few generations of pokemon and i feel i need some views of others to ease my mind. The topic at matter is naturally competitive battling(this forum duuuu!) and how i feel things like shoddy and pokesav maybe ruined the competitive field for wifi users and people who like to grind out items, natures and ivs. To name a few: 'battle frontier items(takes alot of time) and pickup items that require lvl 81+ meowth etc'(i've raised 3 of these this gen to find 2 leftovers).
I personally have used shoddy a little bit in the past and what i found is that its not that enjoyable compared to breeding your own pokemon and using them in battle. When breeding/catching your own it feels like the hard work of gaining decent ivs and breeding for the right nature actually brings alot more satisfaction to a victory and makes you work harder in the future when a defeat occurs. What i am frustrated with is that i notice more and more that in wifi battles people are using a full team of shinies with what i can only guess are max iv'd pokemon. Obviously getting both in the game is a very possible task, but the amount of time and effort required just shows me they have been pokesav'd. On this note i was just wondering if anyone knew of a community that played the games for what they actually we're and had battles to a legit standard.

What Aero said about RNG holds true for most things. I don't play Wi-Fi, but iirc Nintendo doesn't even allow PokeSav'd 'mons on Wi-Fi battles anymore. All the Pokemon you see while playing in B/W are legit, and you don't have to worry about that.

And remember that not everyone is pleased with training their own Pokemon and you don't have to get upset with people about this. There will always be those people who prefer training up their own, but as options expand into things like RNG and battling online using a simulator (which is something I do all the time), people will take those other options for ease of effort or whatever. This isn't the death of Wi-Fi or anything like that and if you find playing your game preferable to playing on PO (yeah it's a different program now; you might like it more than shoddy) then that's awesome! Keep playing your game. But other people like to play on simulators and that's that.

Actionhero112 · Sep 20, 2011

I thought that Nintendo does allow you to use Sav/Gen'd mons over wifi, but just doesn't allow you to post the log online. If you meant random match up, I guess thats true. But RM is just "Ohai der, I use bulky pokemon with OHKO moves and spam them until they work." And I realize there are ways to counter that, its just.. I'm so acclimated to the rules and regulations of standard OU and UU that I can't battle without them. That sounds pathetic I know. =(

Competitive Battling Chat

More options

Vrai

can you feel my heart?

flamehaze94

Jeste!

Dark Azelf

☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣

champagnepapi

exile

Vrai

can you feel my heart?

Skuntank

Perriechu

i make this look easy tik-tik boom like gasoline-y

Skuntank

Perriechu

i make this look easy tik-tik boom like gasoline-y

champagnepapi

exile

.Aero

Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess

Skuntank

Vrai

can you feel my heart?

Cycle

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!

gee2k8

Slicker than your average

Zeffy

g'day

.Aero

Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess

Vrai

can you feel my heart?

Actionhero112

Apply the lotion now!