Nationalism

Mareep123 said:

I think it's good to feel pride about where you come from. As a proud Yorkshire woman I feel it...but to think your superior because of where you come from is not cool and really that is the line! It's a lottery as to where we are born in this world....

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But, why is it good? You just happened to win Yorkshire in the lottery of life. Why does it make sense to feel pride in that?

gimmepie said:

But, why is it good? You just happened to win Yorkshire in the lottery of life. Why does it make sense to feel pride in that?

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I think it's important to feel pride in where you come from. Surely pride creates a sense of responsibility for your local area/community, which can only be a good thing? As to the lottery comment that was more in relation to superiority rather than pride....nobody is better than someone else on the basis of their origins as it was a lottery that put them there in the first place!

Mareep123 said:

I think it's important to feel pride in where you come from. Surely pride creates a sense of responsibility for your local area/community, which can only be a good thing? As to the lottery comment that was more in relation to superiority rather than pride....nobody is better than someone else on the basis of their origins as it was a lottery that put them there in the first place!

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This really comes down to how we define words. What you're talking about (pride that leads to responsibility) is patriotism, essentially. It's recognizing that your country is great and privileged, and that you can use that status to uplift others. Nationalism is a way of thinking that places your country in a position of pure morality that absolves it of any wrongdoing, even when it does stuff like committing human rights violations or stunting the growth of other nations in the interest of uplifting itself.

Pride in your country is fine but it shouldn't be necessary. Also, you shouldn't feel superior to others just because you happened to be born in a particular country.

Nationalism, in a sense, is wanting to put the interests of one's own country over those of others. Such sentiments are, I would argue, borne from wanting a sense of belonging (part of Maslow's hierarchy of needs), which is, more often than not, provided amongst people who live in the same country as you do by sharing common culture, birthplace, country, and language.

As for feeling superior over other nations... yes, unfortunately extreme nationalism can lead to jingoism/chauvinism, which isn't something I advocate as such sentiments have led to devastating wars. But extremism isn't healthy in any ideology anyways.

Lastly, I think it's important to separate nationalism and racism, which I think are two different ideas that are conflated too often, although there are some instances of overlap.

From what it seems, people seem to keep on forgetting about one side of nationalism; civic nationalism is based on common citizenship. For starters, a very good example of a civic nationalist party would be the Scottish Nationalist Party, which wants the peaceful separation of Scotland from the UK and often has social-democratic policies. Such form of nationalism is non-xenophobic and compatible with democratic values.

Civic nationalism is a common feature in many National Liberal/Nationalist Liberal parties, including the very first one in the German Empire. I'd probably align myself with one of these ideologies now, if anything.

I don't believe that being born in a specific place should warrant bragging rights (unless it's sports related).

You can be HAPPY to be born somewhere as opposed to somewhere else because of living conditions or the rights they allow, I get that, but being from a certain country doesn't make you better than anyone, it doesn't make you better than the people who dislike their country either.

The suffering from within and outside of your country don't need your nationalism, sonny.

As a trans person, I certainly don't like my country right now and I don't care for my "patriot" family members accusing me of treason because of it.
It's rude and disrespectful.

Nationalism has always been the cause of America's damaged reputation on the world stage, especially since the Iraq War.

Personally, I think if humanity as a whole is to advance as a species, we need to completely do away with it, as all it does is create a mentality of us-versus-them within our own global sphere and holds us back from cooperation.

If the late 19th/early 20th century was defined as an ideological war of capitalism vs marxism, and the rest of the 20th century was defined as a war of democracy vs totalitarianism...then recent events give me cause to think the 21st century will be defined as an ideological war of nationalism/populism vs globalism.

CarcharOdin said:

Nationalism has always been the cause of America's damaged reputation on the world stage, especially since the Iraq War.

Personally, I think if humanity as a whole is to advance as a species, we need to completely do away with it, as all it does is create a mentality of us-versus-them within our own global sphere and holds us back from cooperation.

If the late 19th/early 20th century was defined as an ideological war of capitalism vs marxism, and the rest of the 20th century was defined as a war of democracy vs totalitarianism...then recent events give me cause to think the 21st century will be defined as an ideological war of nationalism/populism vs globalism.

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Populism comes in phases like every 40 years or so I think. I doubt it will be around long enough for a war. And even then, who are the belligerents? Are you talking about a war of ideas, fought over the internet or with words?

Populism and Nationalism can exist without each other. You can still have fairly Left Wing populism. Castro essentially won on Populism. The wars of the 21st Century will be fought on profit, not ideas.

A place is a place. If i'm going to find pride in something, i'm not going to find it in a blob that is a place or country. Pride in a thing like that is meaningless. That *thing* isn't doing you anything. The people in it, the people that set the wheels in motion... That's are where you'll find my pride. Individuals, not groups.

Nationalism, Patriotism... I don't know, Pointless isn't the word i'm looking for but I can't think of a better one at the moment.