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6th Gen The Elite Four

C Payne

Hoenn in 3D!
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Well known strong type? Can you please define that. I don't think people are giving other types enough credit and, if we're going by the 'well known' thing, is it really fair just because we haven't seen an Elite use such Pokemon? If anything, that should make it quite obvious that others need a spotlight.

Like's already been mentioned, Normal-types have been proven to be annoying as all hell to beat in past gyms, so why not step it up and let an Elite put them at the top level? I was going to mention types like Flying again because I feel all types should have that chance to be among the best, but I'll just focus on Normal here because of how flat out obvious it is that they are just as much of a force to be reckoned with as any type we've seen being used by Elites.

It's time to stop spamming the likes of Dark, Ghost, etc. and allow others a moment in the spotlight. Dragon is probably the only type that could believably be used more often in the E4 and be considered one of the top tiers in any region(even though I'm far from suggesting that they spam it too). Give the spammed ones a break.
 

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
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Well known strong type? Can you please define that. I don't think people are giving other types enough credit and, if we're going by the 'well known' thing, is it really fair just because we haven't seen an Elite use such Pokemon? If anything, that should make it quite obvious that others need a spotlight.

Oh I meant the ones often perceived to be the strongest, like dragon, etc. I'd just feel better if it was all out power, compared to the random things like attract/rollout Miltank and Slaking would be... better for e4?
 

Zorogami

WUB WUB
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Oh I meant the ones often perceived to be the strongest, like dragon, etc. I'd just feel better if it was all out power, compared to the random things like attract/rollout Miltank and Slaking would be... better for e4?

If i may quote Karen, a member of the Johto Elite 4: "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best." Just because Dragon Types are perceived as strong and majestic, doesn't mean they are better or more powerful than any other pokemon type, it all depends on their trainer and training.

Personally, i found Norman and his 2 Slakings in RS way harder to beat than half the Hoenn Elite 4...
just thinking about a Elite 4 member with a Slaking around Lv 60 makes me shudder
 

Jake♫

► My Happy Little Pill 
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Oh I meant the ones often perceived to be the strongest, like dragon, etc. I'd just feel better if it was all out power, compared to the random things like attract/rollout Miltank and Slaking would be... better for e4?

They were mildly annoying, but they also got the job done and made it challenging. That's enough to justify it being a strong type. Bug was definitely not perceived to be a strong by anyone with all the easy Bug Catchers that you beat, yet that was in the Elite Four.
 

C Payne

Hoenn in 3D!
454
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If i may quote Karen, a member of the Johto Elite 4: "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best." Just because Dragon Types are perceived as strong and majestic, doesn't mean they are better or more powerful than any other pokemon type, it all depends on their trainer and training.

Personally, i found Norman and his 2 Slakings in RS way harder to beat than half the Hoenn Elite 4...
just thinking about a Elite 4 member with a Slaking around Lv 60 makes me shudder

This; It's nice to know there are other people who realize that any type can be strong, given they're raised and trained very well. That quote from Karen is one of my favorite quotes of the series because it is indeed the truth.

QFT big time.


They were mildly annoying, but they also got the job done and made it challenging. That's enough to justify it being a strong type. Bug was definitely not perceived to be a strong by anyone with all the easy Bug Catchers that you beat, yet that was in the Elite Four.

Exactly.
 
52
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13
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  • Age 25
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Although no one from the E4 has used Steel-type Pokémon, the champion of RS, Steven used them, and it was really hard if you didn't have Pokémon that were strong against them. As for Normal-type Pokémon in the E4, I totally agree, of all the gyms in Hoenn, IMO Norman's was the hardest, with super-defense and Pokémon that could learn almost any attack. And I've never liked gyms or the E4 to be monotypes, that makes them way easier, just catch a Pokémon strong against that type, train him, defeat the gym/E4 member and deposit him in the box forever. They could all be like Blue, he is the only gym leader (or E4 Champion or even E4 although he wasn't a part of it) who doesn't specialize in any type of Pokémon.
 
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As we know, Generation 5 changed the game with the Elite Four. Instead of the precedent set where you face them in a predetermined order, where each member became more difficult, you could choose the order you fought them in and they were all roughly leveled the same. Did you like that change and would you like to see it back for Generation 6? Would you prefer to go back to the old system? Is there some other way you'd like to see it play out?

I liked the way It was in Generation V, BUT, there was a predetermined order in a way. If you chose to read the statue in in the middle it tells you the order of easiest to hardest (I guess that marshal was hard to the devs, since it mentions him last) but you could still fight them in the order you wanted.
But still, I like the Gen. V way better then it was before.
 
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Zorogami

WUB WUB
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Although no one from the E4 has used Steel-type Pokémon, the champion of RS, Steven used them, and it was really hard if you didn't have Pokémon that were strong against them.

Steel would definitely make for a good Elite 4 type, and it would be pretty tough to beat. Metagross was a freaking nightmare in RS, i still have nightmares about that...
 

Guy

just a guy
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I liked Unova's Elite Four in that you could choose which order you battled each one, but I would prefer if that were to happen again that the levels of each elite members didn't remain static.

Something I would like to see is a departure from specific types and a turn to a more strategic Elite Four with a mix of different Pokémon. For example:

Elite Member 1: Specializes in Attack
Elite Member 2: Specializes in Sp. Attack
Elite Member 3: Specializes in Speed
Elite Member 4: Specializes in HP, Defense, and Sp. Defense

Champion: A well balanced and competitively challenging team

It's nothing more than a pipe dream really, but I wouldn't actually mind if they broke away from each Elite member having a special type.
 

Cyclone

Eye of the Storm
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Steel would definitely make for a good Elite 4 type, and it would be pretty tough to beat. Metagross was a freaking nightmare in RS, i still have nightmares about that...
Emboar would like to have a word - er, a spar - with you.

Cyclone
 

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
35,992
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I liked Unova's Elite Four in that you could choose which order you battled each one, but I would prefer if that were to happen again that the levels of each elite members didn't remain static.

Something I would like to see is a departure from specific types and a turn to a more strategic Elite Four with a mix of different Pokémon. For example:

Elite Member 1: Specializes in Attack
Elite Member 2: Specializes in Sp. Attack
Elite Member 3: Specializes in Speed
Elite Member 4: Specializes in HP, Defense, and Sp. Defense

Champion: A well balanced and competitively challenging team

It's nothing more than a pipe dream really, but I wouldn't actually mind if they broke away from each Elite member having a special type.

Sounds fun! Also relates to what Fifth Gen had in a way. For example, Marshal was specialising in Attack, Shauntal in Special Attack, Grimsley in Speed and Caitlin in the others. I think from that pattern, something along those lines actually is possible for this generation if they just move to just elite people rather than elite type-loving people. :(
 

Guy

just a guy
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It would certainly make the Elite 4 more of a challenge considering you wouldn't know which Pokémon they'd have on them. Whereas with specific types, you can almost guess which Pokémon they'll be using before you battle them and you can be ready for it.
 
52
Posts
13
Years
  • Age 25
  • Seen Apr 4, 2022
I liked Unova's Elite Four in that you could choose which order you battled each one, but I would prefer if that were to happen again that the levels of each elite members didn't remain static.

Something I would like to see is a departure from specific types and a turn to a more strategic Elite Four with a mix of different Pokémon. For example:

Elite Member 1: Specializes in Attack
Elite Member 2: Specializes in Sp. Attack
Elite Member 3: Specializes in Speed
Elite Member 4: Specializes in HP, Defense, and Sp. Defense

Champion: A well balanced and competitively challenging team

It's nothing more than a pipe dream really, but I wouldn't actually mind if they broke away from each Elite member having a special type.

THIS^ It's just like Norman's gym, where the trainers before him all specialize in one stat, only this would be way harder. Something like this would either force people who don't EV train to EV train, or require mad tactics. Plus I can see a Steel, Ghost and Flying combo for the Attack specialization, and a Dragon, Fire and Psychic combo for the Sp. Attack specialization. And I think it'd be cool if each one of the E4 had a forme of Deoxys specific for their specialized stat.
 
12
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  • Seen Sep 21, 2013
THIS^ It's just like Norman's gym, where the trainers before him all specialize in one stat, only this would be way harder. Something like this would either force people who don't EV train to EV train, or require mad tactics. Plus I can see a Steel, Ghost and Flying combo for the Attack specialization, and a Dragon, Fire and Psychic combo for the Sp. Attack specialization. And I think it'd be cool if each one of the E4 had a forme of Deoxys specific for their specialized stat.

That's a problem, may I remind you that the target audience for Pokemon are kids, which are less likely to do extensive strategics and/or to use a mechanic that costs time and isn't exactly the most fun thing to do.

Maybe if the game had a hard setting or something this could fit but I find it unlikely to go on normal game play, unless it was something toned down so the need wouldn't be this apparent and could be circumvented more easily.
 
52
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That's a problem, may I remind you that the target audience for Pokemon are kids, which are less likely to do extensive strategics and/or to use a mechanic that costs time and isn't exactly the most fun thing to do.

Maybe if the game had a hard setting or something this could fit but I find it unlikely to go on normal game play, unless it was something toned down so the need wouldn't be this apparent and could be circumvented more easily.


I agree. Although I myself don't EV train, I'd love to have a challenge like this. Thinking about the kids though definitely you'd need the Hard and Normal modes. The normal one could be the same team, but without the same specialization, like less stat value for that specific stat (instead of 200 speed, have 120 speed).
 
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11
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You don't really need to EV train for such an E4.
Get a Physical Attacker for the spDef E4
And a Special Attacker for the Def E4
Get some uber spdef or a calm mind user pokemon to counter the spAtk E4 (works also for the Def E4)
And Curse/Bulk UP or epicly defensive poke for the Atk E4 (works also for the spDef E4)
Also, there are a lot of status moves (like stealth rock, leech seed, ..Etc) and some damage-dealingm oves (like Foul Play, Seismic Toss, ... etc) that don't require EV training.
 
12
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  • Seen Sep 21, 2013
You don't really need to EV train for such an E4.
Get a Physical Attacker for the spDef E4
And a Special Attacker for the Def E4
Get some uber spdef or a calm mind user pokemon to counter the spAtk E4 (works also for the Def E4)
And Curse/Bulk UP or epicly defensive poke for the Atk E4 (works also for the spDef E4)
Also, there are a lot of status moves (like stealth rock, leech seed, ..Etc) and some damage-dealingm oves (like Foul Play, Seismic Toss, ... etc) that don't require EV training.

Again, the audience. If you grabbed a kid that played Pokemon odds are, it doesn't give a crap about stats and is just mashing the a button on the strongest attack (not only kids do that though), and that's it.

It's more likely they'll know about the type advantage but they won't care for the stats part of the game, they'll maybe take a glance at it and start using moves that favor that stats, but nothing deep and/or strategic about it. Pokemon is a game for the casual gamers, while it does have the more hardcore parts (Competitive Battling, RNG and it's setup) they're optional and depending on whether you frequent websites and read guides on the game, you may not even know about these parts.

And now about the strategies you mentioned:
- Get {Stat}er Pokemon: Kids would likely get Pokemon for the rule of cute and/or the rule of cool, not practicality or stats.
- Move Strategies: Strategy more advanced than "Use a par/brn/slp/psn move and then keep attacking" is rare.

This is a business, they focus the game to be more attractive to the target audience, that's why the puzzles are usually easy and the battling scene can be done so casually - save from a few trainers like Morimoto and Cynthia were in BW -, the only way this suggestion could be done would be bumping the difficulty of the whole game - because if you spend the entire game beating trainers that have random Pokemon or a single type when it comes one that is actually specialized in a way they can have a diverse team with a more competitive movepool you'd be lost -, maybe if the game had a hard setting on ...
 
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Mmmmm, I dunno, I mean, that's a pretty big sweeping generalization of how kids play. Though however accurate is probably subjective, I suppose. EV training is, of course, for the more advanced trainer, but I'm sure it's within reach for children to learn. /shrugs. Could be wrong, though.

Honestly though, this is the elite four we're talking about here. If you're a kid, especially being a kid that's a longtime Pokemon fan, then you should have enough sense to know that the Elite Four is not going to be easy by any means (at least, the basic concept of the E4 is that they're not supposed to be easy). When you apply that to adults, we know how to strategize fairly easily, especially those of us that have been in competitive battling for a long time.

That doesn't mean that kids don't know how to strategize as well, but perhaps not to the extent that the older gamers do. When you're talking about the Elite four, the concept to grasp here is that you have a bunch of trainers that usually have level 55+ Pokemon, so the obvious answer to a kid is to have a higher level Pokemon, with a semi-decent moveset. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out a strategy to beat the elite four. If they could figure out type matchups, then they can figure out stats. I don't think stats are a hard concept to grasp at all, assuming that there's some sort of tutorial included in-games that explains it.

I suppose so, but to get across EV training, you'd need to either get across some items or to do selective grinding, both of which take time.
And IV training is just mass breeding; the manhours that take to do this aren't going to do wonders on holding the attention of kids.
But I dunno, I could be just generalizing.
 

Honest

Hi!
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Gen 5's method was much better in my opinion. I liked having the choice of who I wanted to face when. The old method wasn't bad, though, I just believe it was too linear for my liking.
 
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I hadn't given it that much thought, but I wouldn't mind if the Elite 4 was presented in Gen 6 the same way as in Gen 5, although to be honest I'd be equally fine with it if it went back to the 'standard' way, 4 in a row. Types aside, if you were high enough level to beat one Elite 4 member, you were high enough to beat them all (in Gen 5)- which is fine! Though I'm also fine with battling through 4 trainers, each tougher than the next. I remember the first time I took on the League in Ruby and how terrified I was when he sent out his level 55 Salamence. Somehow, I just think there's a greater sense of achievement when you beat the 4 when they're organised in a linear way- but that's just me.
 
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