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What do you want in CBC?

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15
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  • Age 27
  • Seen Jan 5, 2014
I want to battle and i think that we should tally up the people who want to still be a part of CBC and make a league for everyone who still wants to be a part of it. I think the league should have some creativity like instead of just battling a gym leader we should make it kinda a role play too where you beat so manmy trainers and you you move up a town so when you beat so many trainers and meet certain requirments you may battle a leader. also assigning gym leaders forever probably won't work. I think we should set up intial gym leaders but then determine latter gym leaders by skill, activity, and the effort put into the league. I think there should also be two differnt leagues of the same thing, one for Gen IV and one for Gen V. I personally can't host this yet because i know next to nothing on competetive battling and i also havn't beat my HG yet. But i would start it otherwise. If anybody likes this idea or has feedback speak up because we need more competetive battlers.
 
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A league sounds cool; it could be like one big clan. I don't think the multiple trainers idea would work though, because we don't have much members to begin with. We would be lucky enough to fill up the gym leader spots. We could try something similar however.

Going back to mentioning clans, we could try a league that's a compilation of multiple clans/teams. Basically, we would have small teams within the league that have competitions amongst each other. The focus of the league would still be the usual "challengers fight the gym leaders," etc. The clan concept would be just another thing we could do with the league.

Edit: Like I said before, I can make it so that battles initiated via challenge will be counted towards the ladder rankings. Basically, all battles done on the server will be considered ladder battles after that.
This was just implemented, so it removes the need for the "Find Battle" button. (I'd still like for people to use that though.)

Also, I had an idea regarding PC OU. We could have a team building competition and see who can make the best team using <insertpokemon>, similar to "Research Week" at Smogon. We can focus on Pokémon that have been unbanned, like Deoxys-A for example. This would be a good way to test the "broken" Pokémon too.
 
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I have been told about the idea of taking down the server, and essentially starting over. It seems like an interesting idea, considering it would put more focus on the forum and Pokémon discussion in general. Not to mention it's hard to look past the fact that the forum's activity has been declining ever since the server was created. (Forum activity was at its peak during '07, then the server was made in '08, and activity has been waning ever since.) Perhaps we're going about using the forum/server the wrong way, that we're trying to be another Smogon with an active battling server, and it's too ambitious for a small community such as this. The community could be more successful if discussion was thriving in the forum. Having both the forum and server around is like having two forums, and we're trying to keep both active at the same time which always fails. CBC has always been more about the server and random off-topic discussion than about Pokémon battling. With the server gone, off-topic talk won't exist and the community will be about battling for once. It's something we might as well try since nothing is really happening at the moment. Just some food for thought.
 

Dark Azelf

☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣
7,210
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I am totally against this "idea". Namely because past "starting over" haven't worked out in the slightest (see: renaming S+M CBC and getting a new forum). It will also be detrimental to our battling community as the server is essentially the only reason im even here anymore, for friends, if you will and on the server i can talk with them better. Having a server also brings that "community closeness" in my opinion that we had in 07/08 (not as much but its still there). I personally dont want to be forced to go on other community servers to battle and i think i speak for everyone else when i say that too. Another point i would like to make is WHO GIVES A FLYING F- DAMN IF WE DONT TAlK ABOUT POKEMON 100% OF THE TIME ? Really, that is a pathetic argument. I dont want to talk about Pokemon 24/7 either, sometimes its refreshing to put other topics into the conversation. Besides battling has been picking up the last few days anyway, even Syndrome has been battling again. Speaking of Syndrome, if you remove the server that is a regular member you lose straight away as he is banned on the forum. Personally i dont think this has been thought through, AT ALL. We shouldn't be looking at the server or the forum for why we are inactive. We should be looking at ourselves, why aren't regs rating/battling/posting teams ? Ill let you guys figure that out. .____. Thats the root of the problem imo. I mean why would i post? No motivation thats why, sure "oh you shouldnt need to be motivated", probably not but it would help if there was at least SOMETHING to reward posting because its essentially a chore these days. If you want an active server we can always merge with another forums, taking it down is just dumb imo.

edit: ive also been hearing silly reasons as to why people dont battle also see;

"i dont care about pc anymore"
"i dont want to lose to D_A"
"People take battling too seriously"

shouldnt we be addressing those ?
 
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Anti

return of the king
10,818
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16
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Having a server also brings that "community closeness" in my opinion that we had in 07/08 (not as much but its still there).

I would argue that this hasn't happened at all. At least not for me.

Another point i would like to make is WHO GIVES A FLYING F- DAMN IF WE DONT TAlK ABOUT POKEMON 100% OF THE TIME ? Really, that is a pathetic argument. I dont want to talk about Pokemon 24/7 either, sometimes its refreshing to put other topics into the conversation.

It's not that we're not talking about Pokemon, it's that we're "in range" constantly.

It will also be detrimental to our battling community as the server is essentially the only reason im even here anymore, for friends, if you will and on the server i can talk with them better.

This is all certainly true. I'm only here for friends too. But isn't that also a problem?
 
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I know this is kinda off topic with the PO stuff so feel free to ignore it till later, but I reckon it'd be cool to have some Summer battle fair going on during the holidays. Have lots of different tournaments and challenges to take part in; maybe have type restricted tournaments, move restricted tournaments, species restricted tournaments, etc, and people can earn points over the whole event for a table of winners or prizes or whatever? I dunno if this is something people would be interested in but it's an idea I've been thinking of bringing up for a while so yeah, any thoughts? :D
 

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
35,992
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Uhh not a fan of this. For one we wouldn't have PC OU, any laddering, any comm nights and only wifi battling (or using smogon for battles when we'd rather battle those in the community). While the first two mentioned haven't really happened - they can still be worked on and improved instead of removing the server. I also agree with not removing it because of syndrome as DA mentioned. And really if we're restricted to wifi that for the most part means most of us won't really be battling as much or at all. Not everyone has wifi, not everyone has the time to RNG perfect Pokemon or to get someone to do it for them and I feel like if people are forced to use smogon then really... How is that a community if we all need to find each other out of like 700 people? :( I just really think it'll lose the community aspect as DA said.
 
1,796
Posts
13
Years
I have been told about the idea of taking down the server, and essentially starting over. It seems like an interesting idea, considering it would put more focus on the forum and Pokémon discussion in general. Not to mention it's hard to look past the fact that the forum's activity has been declining ever since the server was created. (Forum activity was at its peak during '07, then the server was made in '08, and activity has been waning ever since.) Perhaps we're going about using the forum/server the wrong way, that we're trying to be another Smogon with an active battling server, and it's too ambitious for a small community such as this. The community could be more successful if discussion was thriving in the forum. Having both the forum and server around is like having two forums, and we're trying to keep both active at the same time which always fails. CBC has always been more about the server and random off-topic discussion than about Pokémon battling. With the server gone, off-topic talk won't exist and the community will be about battling for once. It's something we might as well try since nothing is really happening at the moment. Just some food for thought.

I feel that this experiment sounds interesting, but I really just think it would be even staler as there'd be no place to hang out and there's no guarentee that we'd post in the forums. I do think its time to cultivate a new generation of regulars though.

I am totally against this "idea". Namely because past "starting over" haven't worked out in the slightest (see: renaming S+M CBC and getting a new forum). It will also be detrimental to our battling community as the server is essentially the only reason im even here anymore, for friends, if you will and on the server i can talk with them better. Having a server also brings that "community closeness" in my opinion that we had in 07/08 (not as much but its still there). I personally dont want to be forced to go on other community servers to battle and i think i speak for everyone else when i say that too. Another point i would like to make is WHO GIVES A FLYING F- DAMN IF WE DONT TAlK ABOUT POKEMON 100% OF THE TIME ? Really, that is a pathetic argument. I dont want to talk about Pokemon 24/7 either, sometimes its refreshing to put other topics into the conversation. Besides battling has been picking up the last few days anyway, even Syndrome has been battling again. Speaking of Syndrome, if you remove the server that is a regular member you lose straight away as he is banned on the forum. Personally i dont think this has been thought through, AT ALL. We shouldn't be looking at the server or the forum for why we are inactive. We should be looking at ourselves, why aren't regs rating/battling/posting teams ? Ill let you guys figure that out. .____. Thats the root of the problem imo. I mean why would i post? No motivation thats why, sure "oh you shouldnt need to be motivated", probably not but it would help if there was at least SOMETHING to reward posting because its essentially a chore these days. If you want an active server we can always merge with another forums, taking it down is just dumb imo.

edit: ive also been hearing silly reasons as to why people dont battle also see;

"i dont care about pc anymore
"i dont want to lose to D_A"
"People take battling too seriously"

shouldnt we be addressing those ?

1. Im sure me/vrai would still do mons if there was something really exciting. I really dont like PC OU and would prefer to play wifi ou.
2. Well to be fair you challenge and then mash everyone.
3. Who? Honestly it seems like theres a dearth of this, back when I was first learning the game here, everyone laddered at smogon and wanted to get better at the game. What happened to that? It seems like everyone is content just being bad and battling here. It'd be more beneficial if we encouraged improvement so we'd have a more knowledgeable userbase.

Also yeah if all of us could post decent teams with actual thought that would be cool. I had some CSS coded for my rain stall but I never finished it. I might post my Alakazam team though.
 

Anti

return of the king
10,818
Posts
16
Years
What do I want in CBC?

Well, the thread title is "What do you want in CBC?" This is probably an important question to answer if we're going to make CBC more fun again. So here's what I want in CBC.

First, I want the main forum (and the forum in general) to be relevant again. The community needs to have a presence on the both the server and the forum. If I were to sum up my "vision" for CBC, it would be that we need to get back to where we once belonged. And maybe make a few improvements on the old successful model along the way, as it was not without its flaws.

A few words about the server: I think as it stands now, it's mostly fine. However, the chat is often very out-there, which can definitely be fun, but (for me at least) it has stopped being edgy and it has certainly lost its appeal. I stopped going on for awhile not out of frustration or anything but because (along with a vacation thrown in) it just had stopped being enjoyable for me. The thing is, I feel like the server as it exists now wouldn't be a problem if the forum was also active, but since the server is the only game in town, you have to listen to some random conversation about protein or something like that or just not come on at all. In other words, the goofiness would be fine if there was a place to actually approach Pokemon in a more formal way—an alternative venue, if you will.

And that's where the forum comes in. A regular hasn't posted an RMT since March. That's really not good. And on the topic of RMTs, as much as I miss the madness of my first year or so here where regulars posted RMT after RMT, the truth is that a lot of us are good enough that we don't need to post RMTs often, if at all. But there are definitely regulars who could improve and who probably need some team help. I am one of these people myself. But if the question is what do I want in CBC, it's not that people post RMTs to promote some facade of activity but rather to post an RMT if they get stuck instead of scrapping the team and starting over, to post an RMT if they like their team but think it could be improved, or even to post an RMT just as a showcase because those can be good reads like battle logs.

Still, it takes two to tango. By that I mean that even if people post teams, they need to be rated or else "what's the point?" And here, I just want people not to pounce on every team that pops up like back in the day but rather to respond to a thread with zero replies that is waiting to be replied to. In other words, just chip in a little bit. And yeah, I know rating is a chore. I agree. Why do you think I stopped doing it myself? But I don't think in-depth rates are really necessary. I don't think it's realistic to ask raters to put more effort into their rates than the OPs put into their teams. But making a few quick fixes is easy and—I would argue—fun instead of the chore some of the longer ones are. Whether we want to admit it or not, regulars of the future are buried in the pool of randoms who post here and each one we ignore is a wasted opportunity. Karpman is right; it's time for a new generation of regulars to come to the rescue of the old.

So I definitely want the old school S&M elements to make something of a comeback, even if they won't dominate the forum like they once did. But that's the thing: if the foundation of activity from years ago cannot alone make the forum worthwhile for regulars, what can? Well, a few of us here sure seem to admire Smogon. Well, I remember Stark Mountain being a pretty chill discussion hub for topics like the ones Karpman recently posted. One thing Wolf has brought up would be to have a thread which is simply "Lucario" and then not only do we post and discuss movesets (as, after all, seasoned players know what they are and how they work) but also discuss some good combos for the Pokemon, teams that utilize the Pokemon particularly well, or even a "SDLuke brought me back from being down 1-5" type of story/log. Discussion really has no limit. What do I want in CBC? (Sorry if this refrain is getting annoying.) I want something for the everyone—but the veteran players especially—to discuss and have a good time with. Also, these kinds of threads used to exist, like right here. Yeah, it's noobish. But what if we had that, only more intelligent and refined? It was fun before and it still can be. It worked in 2007 and it can now. The only difference is we're improving on a winning formula. What's not to like about that? And that's only scratching the surface of what discussion topics could be... (I do feel like finding exactly what is interesting/engaging for discussion topics will take a little trial and error but the key is that we actually try so that we see what we like and don't like etc., especially since the possibilities are indeed numerous.)

Also, for those of us who like battle logs, there are those too. Not a staple by any means, but a nice "every once and awhile thing" to add a little spice. And as Oppo showed us, when done well, they're pretty awesome.

So for me, the main forum would ideally be a blend of discussion and more traditional team help and discussion. Once upon a time, this was the bread and butter of the forum. Only we're not noobish flaming idiots now. We can make the forum engaging and active if we really want to.

And then there is T&E. Much like in S&M, the regulars are getting absolutely lapped by the "randoms" in activity. On one hand, I do kind of get it, as a lot of the things there that are active with WiFi players don't translate well in a simulator-based community like this one. But T&E is still good for—wait for it!—tournaments and events! I think casual tours are cool but ones with more competition would be great too. For example, why not do an official tour every two months or so? And as a little incentive, have the previous tour's winner in the title of the thread until he/she is unseated. And of course, casual tours with cute little themes are fun too. I know they haven't been successful, but this is "what do you want in CBC?" and not "assess the reality of inactivity and indifference in CBC." What do I want? A fairly active tour scene (both competitive and more casual) to supplement the main forum. In terms of events, the only one we've ever really done is ComNight (plus some Get-Together stuff). If I'm being honest, I think the potential for events is somewhat limited just because, well, I just can't think of what we could possibly do that tour wouldn't do better. But I've never had much imagination with T&E so I could very well be wrong here. But tours are a must, even if their quantity is a little limited.

In terms of the metagame preference, we need BW OU as the standard. The truth is that that's what new members and potential regulars will be playing, and the future belongs to them, not us. Still, I think having DPP OU as an alternative for people who either don't like BW OU or simply want a break from it sometimes would be a good idea. And by that I mean we would give it similar treatment to BW OU in tours and stuff though it still wouldn't be the main metagame like BW OU. Maybe we would even stop using Smogon's tiers in favor of ones we determine ourselves. It's definitely something to consider. Do I want that in CBC? Personally, I'm not too sure as even at the best of times this was a stretch, but it could be fun and shouldn't be ruled out, in my opinion.

The server would be where all of the battling and events I can't imagine (but could very well exist and succeed) happen...kind of like the way it is now! Yes, with an off-topic chat if that's what people want. But right now the community only has the off-topic section of itself functioning so it is hardly recognizable as a "Competitive Battling Center," and I think that with what is essentially my vision for CBC that I outlined in the above paragraphs/novella, we could return it to that and something resembling what it once was. Well, there's one other thing...

I want to cover if community. It's not terrible or anything, but it could be better. There is more conflict, more tension, and even a little more intrigue than there once was. Lord knows I've been in the middle of some of it. To put it simply, can't we all just be friends? Conflict is inevitable really, like in any family. It's just important that it doesn't linger past its expiration date or else things resemble a fragile middle school clique more than a family. And the latter being the case over the former is why I always found S&M so special, something that kinda differentiated itself from the rest of PC. Let's not forget to make sure CBC has that same special quality. And one thing I certainly want out of CBC is for action to be taken against people who don't value that, however light or severe is necessary.

There is one thing I want in CBC more than anything else I just mentioned: I want people to care. I just want people to care.
 
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Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
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I want a theorymon thread. Anti and I were discussing an example earlier and I found it an interesting potential type of discussion for this section which might possibly get more people interested in talking/discussing/debating.
 
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8,279
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You need a tl;dr version of your posts, Anti. I agree with pretty much everything you said. Regarding the server, I think we should turn the main chat into Pokémon only discussion, but make a off-topic channel. Also, I would like some more metagame discussions for BW OU, DPP OU, etc. We could schedule tournaments in there, hold team building competitions like this, etc.

For example, why not do an official tour every two months or so?
PC Tour, which is going to be recurring.

And as a little incentive, have the previous tour's winner in the title of the thread until he/she is unseated.
I did that with these two tournaments; they were pretty successful.

I want a theorymon thread. Anti and I were discussing an example earlier and I found it an interesting potential type of discussion for this section which might possibly get more people interested in talking/discussing/debating.
What would we theorymon about?

Anyway, I want CBC to be more battle oriented, something that would encourage people to battle. Being involved with the main forum would be more enjoyable if that happened, and easier to keep active.
 

Anti

return of the king
10,818
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Regarding the server, I think we should turn the main chat into Pokémon only discussion, but make a off-topic channel.

I like this idea. Another way to do this might simply be to leave main chat as is and just have a channel for Pokemon discussion if main goes completely insane as it is sometimes prone to do. I'm fine with either, personally.

I would like some more metagame discussions for BW OU, DPP OU, etc.

I do too, though it would be helpful to know what exactly other people want to discuss. This would be a signal for others to post about what they want to see discussed in main forum etc. so we aren't just taking stabs in the dark hoping what we post will interest people. But yeah, I'll be done with the DPP OU one shortly.

insert team-building competition link

I think this sounds awesome. I think it could go well with certain tour themes/metagame choices as well (to ease the "oh I have to make a team for this tour" burden a bit).

insert pc tour link

Hehe, I wasn't very specific, sorry. I basically meant a single elimination tour that would have a traditional bracket etc. I don't like the idea of having the tour winner being determined by variables like the amount of time someone can come on and stuff like that. While I think points tours are fine, for the official tournament? I think a more traditional style would be preferable because it awards the best battler instead of the most active/determined one.

Spoiler:
 
1,796
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13
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back in the day [07-09] did everyone just talk about pkmn in the main chat?


that being said I dont agree with

Regarding the server, I think we should turn the main chat into Pokémon only discussion, but make a off-topic channel.

I feel like trying to force specific discussion on one thing and regulating it by splitting 2 channels just wont work, the forum is where the main metagame discussion should go, I feel like the server is basically an irc with battles where the people who use this forum can talk about whatever
 

Pokedra

Retired
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I've been out of the loop for a while now but I thought I'd input here.

Take it as you will.

- I don't think having two chats will work well, simply put Smogon's only works cause they have a larger user base with other people from different sites regularly coming to battle. If you do that here chances are everyone will chat on the "chat" channel while occasionally going on to the server to battle.

- I started here in late 2008 and kind of stopped 2010. While 2008 was not the golden period, activity was decent. Back then I felt motivated to rate teams (granted I was still learning but I got better) because people actually responded to your rates and discussed it with you. Around the time I left I stopped rating simply because people seemed to post RMT's for the sake posting it (believe me I did too at the start haha) and ignored your rates. It got to the point where I asked myself "Why bother?". I'm sure others feel the same way. Perhaps you need to somehow encourage more discussion in RMT's and motivate both regulars and newbies to discuss. Idk how to do this though.

- This can't be blamed on anyone but when Platinum dropped I was told most hermits/regulars stopped playing because they didn't enjoy it as much as DP. I feel this is a similar situation with BW. I despise BW's OU, it's simply not fun and I've had no motivation to play it. They destroyed what balance DPPt had and added Team Preview which (this is only my opinion) is a horrible mechanic. Not knowing your opponent's team was a core mechanic for 4 generations. Why change? I just feel the fact that BW OU sucks may not be motivating people to be as active as they should and deterring older regulars from returning.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Dark Azelf

☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣
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I've been out of the loop for a while now but I thought I'd input here.

Take it as you will.

- I don't think having two chats will work well, simply put Smogon's only works cause they have a larger user base with other people from different sites regularly coming to battle. If you do that here chances are everyone will chat on the "chat" channel while occasionally going on to the server to battle.

- I started here in late 2008 and kind of stopped 2010. While 2008 was not the golden period, activity was decent. Back then I felt motivated to rate teams (granted I was still learning but I got better) because people actually responded to your rates and discussed it with you. Around the time I left I stopped rating simply because people seemed to post RMT's for the sake posting it (believe me I did too at the start haha) and ignored your rates. It got to the point where I asked myself "Why bother?". I'm sure others feel the same way. Perhaps you need to somehow encourage more discussion in RMT's and motivate both regulars and newbies to discuss. Idk how to do this though.

- This can't be blamed on anyone but when Platinum dropped I was told most hermits/regulars stopped playing because they didn't enjoy it as much as DP. I feel this is a similar situation with BW. I despise BW's OU, it's simply not fun and I've had no motivation to play it. They destroyed what balance DPPt had and added Team Preview which (this is only my opinion) is a horrible mechanic. Not knowing your opponent's team was a core mechanic for 4 generations. Why change? I just feel the fact that BW OU sucks may not be motivating people to be as active as they should and deterring older regulars from returning.

Just my 2 cents.

Just gonna say welcome back. Also we are pushing for DP to become a little more popular as a metagame around here as an alternative for BW OU.

Inb4 "NO ONE LIKES THIS" and theorymon.
 
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BW OU isnt that bad and I like team preview, it's nice to see your opponents team and form a strategy as soon as you can, plus BW OU would be a completely shitfest without it because of all the powerful new late-game sweepers, Zoroark, etc.
 

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
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Just noticed someone's RMT being rated 2 stars (by two users), which is up to competitive standards more than other threads in here, while other "questionable" threads are rated 5 stars, while somewhat non-regulars are rated 1 star, which would be kind of off-putting if I were in their shoes. Sometimes the ratings are okay for threads that deserve them, but otherwise they're greatly unused and never really for the right purpose. For a section that has had bad rep in the past for scaring new users away, isn't that kinda counter-productive if that kind of thing is happening?

So what I'm asking is why does CBC need thread ratings...?
 

curiousnathan

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So what I'm asking is why does CBC need thread ratings...?

So individuals can gain an immediate yet still brief idea if the thread is popular/of good quality or not. It's not like thread ratings are totally useless, they're just being used in the wrong way. I think if it were to be used appropriately, then I definitely think they'll serve to be more productive than counter-productive as you mentioned.
 

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
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So individuals can gain an immediate yet still brief idea if the thread is popular/of good quality or not. It's not like thread ratings are totally useless, they're just being used in the wrong way. I think if it were to be used appropriately, then I definitely think they'll serve to be more productive than counter-productive as you mentioned.

Being popular shouldn't really be of an issue (and in actuality it's being used opposite, those who are regulars haven't really received great rates lately), and a user could have a bad quality RMT which is messy and stuff, but the team itself is actually good. Other sections have had ratings removed, which rely upon user content, rather than discussion threads. Saying they'll be used more appropriately isn't really a thing because while it's all good to say, it doesn't mean people will necessarily use them, and with the amount of troll-y/spammy threads around here lately... thread ratings really isn't beneficial.
 
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