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  #1    
Old 3 Weeks Ago (4:34 PM).
Sensual Sensual is offline
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    It seems like the popularity of rom-hacking has declined since I joined. Now I don't know the statistics, but it's pretty evident that the number of new hacks being pushed out is slowing down lately..

    You'd think the hacking community would be flourishing considering that the process is easier than ever. Yet, it seems like we're on a steady decline. It's hard to believe rom-hacking is just a fad that will eventually fade away, so I wonder if there are any specific reasons we're seeing less activity from the community.

    Just curious what your opinions are?
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    Old 3 Weeks Ago (8:06 AM).
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      hmm... well I don't think so, It's just that more quality rom hacks are being made now which takes more time.Also there is no statistic so you can't say as I can see I see more hacks then ever. People work in groups to make a single hack better so that might be a reason too. People are probably rather working on new gimmicks then whole hacks to help others.

      if you are correct maybe it's because people are lazy nowdays and to be frank, gameboy is a pretty old emulator or console now and people are moving on. The roms have much research but the new hot games are way past them. To hack games you also have to start learning but the greatness of new hacks and the flashiness of pixel art scare away the beginners (eg. is me) and they don't even start without knowing everyone started from the bottom.

      didn't had the statistic so made "some" points for both sides.
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        #3    
      Old 3 Weeks Ago (8:08 AM).
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      I'd say that sadly, yes, there has been a decline. Having been in the scene in some form or another since late 2009, things seem much less popular than they used to in years previous.

      Of course, you have to consider that the last 3rd Gen game, Emerald, came out in 2005. Ruby and Sapphire came out in 2003. We probably have members that weren't even alive then.

      This kind of thing is to be expected as the games continue to grow older.

      I don't think ROM hacking itself is a fad that will fade--as long as video games can be modified, people will keep doing so. However, the hacking of Gen 3 Pokémon games probably is.

      I also want people to keep in mind that the hacking of future generations is very much a growing community. It may seem like hacking is "dying" because these forums tend to focus on the 3rd Gen, but if you keep your eyes open you'll see there is plenty still going on.
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        #4    
      Old 3 Weeks Ago (8:29 AM).
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        It's already dead.
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          #5    
        Old 3 Weeks Ago (12:47 PM).
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          I wouldn't say that. In decline maybe, but not dead just yet.
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            #6    
          Old 3 Weeks Ago (4:11 PM).
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            I think megaman d said it best. It isn't quite dead, as much higher quality hacks are being made. There are certainly less creators now, but that isn't too bad because the ones who make legitimate good hacks are still in the scene. I can't think of the last romhack that hasn't been quality and extremely unique and fun, whereas years ago in the early hacking days they had far less polish to it. So is it on a decline, yes, but there are more quality hacks today. Plus there are ones like Phoenix Rising and Uranium which have transcended the roms and now use their own programs to make the fan games even better with even more polish and content.
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            Old 3 Weeks Ago (6:08 PM).
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            Yes, it's less popular now to hack older generation games and there are just much better free to play games available to the consumer these days.

            Would you rather play someone's ROM hack, or a professionally developed free to play game? It just doesn't strike me as a good past time to play ROM hacks, aside from maybe playing something on your phone while you wait for the bus. Only Pokemon fans who wish to play more Pokemon games would look into playing ROM hacks, and thus they'd be the only ones who'd possibly convert into hackers. Turns out that group isn't very large. Some people also don't exactly know about ROM hacks either.
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              #8    
            Old 3 Weeks Ago (8:02 PM).
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              I'd say yes. However, I'm hopeful that the Gen 3 disassembly will eventually release and breathe new life into the 3rd Gen games just as they did for the Gen 1 and 2 games.
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                #9    
              Old 3 Weeks Ago (10:48 PM).
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                I think people saw lots of old hack attempted with unfinished work. So many people got discouraged. But some people are making cool sideshow hack, which now I always look forward to play. Making a finished rom hacking isn't as easy as we think because most of time people get dissatisfied with their project in the middle of their developments.

                Overall, I can say its declining but there are some ongoing which are actually really good.
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                  #10    
                Old 2 Weeks Ago (11:39 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Ray Maverick.
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                growing up definitely plays a part, I know some veterans who just have a lot to deal with irl and hacking takes way too much time and effort depending on what you're doing for them to keep doing it

                that there's a decline, there's no doubt. But speaking for myself, I know hacking gen 3 will always have a special place in my heart
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                  #11    
                Old 1 Week Ago (5:46 PM).
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                  Well, I might be wrong, but I see many more hacks (and high-quality ones) now than I used to see in ~2009.

                  IMO the scene looks healthy and it won't disappear any time soon.
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                    #12    
                  Old 1 Week Ago (10:13 AM).
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                    You can say that the gen 3 hacking is getting old (maybe but I don't agree but let's take that into note). I believe that new gen or the more newer gen game will be the target after that. We see "difficulty hacks" for them but we might see something new soon. Even though hacking is only limited to your imagination, it get's blocked by emulators limitations too. Now, the new gen would provide more wider way of hacking and a whole new concept to it. I am no master is disassembling or coding but from seeing the community I believe that the flare will keep on igniting and new things will always arrive.
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                      #13    
                    Old 1 Week Ago (3:49 PM).
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                      I don't think its dying, and I haven't been around my self too much lately because I have to Adult it and Life of course.

                      Without the numbers on how many new hackers come into the seen every day or week.
                      It's hard to determine if its rising or falling or just sitting in idle.

                      I can say that the lack of updated tools and outdated links to older tools can push some newer hackers away by far.
                      Also outdated tutorials don't help either...

                      Honestly a all in one tool for gen 3 games would be ideal and keeping it open source would only benefit the future makers.

                      Also as megaman d pointed out, I see no reason to not update and expand on a GBA emulator.
                      The emulated hardware really does become a limiting factor and there are not many these days who play their GBA games on the real hardware anyway. So why not a custom GBA with more memory and dev options ect.
                      Yes games made for it would only work on it but that's where cross platform comes in.
                      Just an idea though.

                      Lastly, too many want to do their project and have abandoned team projects.
                      It really does seem the better known hacks always have a good team behind them with a exception here and there of course...
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                        #14    
                      Old 1 Week Ago (12:47 PM).
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                        I looked at rom hacking back around 2013, all I seen were maping tutorials, no Pokémon adding, no fairy type (well XY didn't exist then) and not many scripting tutorials, now that O joined the seen in 2017, my it changed! Maybe, not many people are in making big hacks cause is a hobbyist thing. Gen 4 hacks will replace more Gen 3 hacks soon anyways.
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                          #15    
                        Old 1 Week Ago (6:05 AM).
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                        Hacking will see a bigger decline with the eventual death of spriting as a hobby. Spriting has lost a lot of steam over the past few years and since most hackers cannot sprite themselves they are at the mercy of artists interest in the medium
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                          #16    
                        Old 1 Week Ago (7:43 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by megaman d.
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Hands View Post
                          Hacking will see a bigger decline with the eventual death of spriting as a hobby. Spriting has lost a lot of steam over the past few years and since most hackers cannot sprite themselves they are at the mercy of artists interest in the medium
                          Now I agree that there are not many new spriters emerging and hackers do not want to sprite themselves, it's going to be hard but let's see the amount of already available sprite on the internet and it's uncountable. Also a single sprite art can be used in more than one hack or can become a staple in most. The best thing about it is that it is open-source (mostly) and can be used by anyone. Do not forget that there is limited capacity on the rom or emulator itself, It can only sustain a amount of great artworks by which I mean that we can only create pixel things on it and that to on a limited area, not by the operators pc's standard, but by the emulators. Altogether I wanted to say that most of the required one is found online and the specifics can be made from the help by freelance pixel artist (which I see you are saying are less but even a small amount of artist or the person themselves are enough because not "many" hacks are being developed right now that want new shiny stuff). Also your point proves my earlier point that we should try going with gen 4 (as it would open way for a new world of pixel art) but I think people like gen 3 as stuff has already been made and it's rather easier and provides more variety of things.

                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by DarkPsychic View Post
                          Also as megaman d pointed out, I see no reason to not update and expand on a GBA emulator.
                          The emulated hardware really does become a limiting factor and there are not many these days who play their GBA games on the real hardware anyway. So why not a custom GBA with more memory and dev options ect.
                          I thought about it too but I don't know how we "emulate" the games also isn't the memory capacity in roms?
                          anyways, gba might or probably can be explored more but making a more advanced gba would make it just like a DS, wouldn't it?
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                            #17    
                          Old 6 Days Ago (12:43 AM).
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                            Quote:
                            I thought about it too but I don't know how we "emulate" the games also isn't the memory capacity in roms?
                            anyways, gba might or probably can be explored more but making a more advanced gba would make it just like a DS, wouldn't it?
                            Emulation does take a considerable amount more work.
                            As you are emulating a gameboy advanced hardware in sofware form.
                            But really to expand on it wouldn't be too much work for those who have made a emulator or took part in.

                            Ram is not in the Rom as those are two different memory areas.
                            ROM is what is in the game cart alog with SRAM(for saving if the game has save).
                            RAM is in the Gameboy Advance along with the CPU and all the other goodies.

                            If I was good enough I would have already tried to play with this idea, but I'm slowly working my way up to that level.. One day I will be there hahahaha
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                              #18    
                            Old 3 Days Ago (7:21 PM).
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                            I don't think upgrading the emulator is in the future of Gen III ROM hacking. The fun of ROM hacking comes from working in the limited environment, reverse engineering and interacting with the hardware directly. If you removed these limiting factors, you may as well just build a PC game using some public game engines.

                            It's kind of silly to be discussing leaving behind the GBA for a better piece of hardware when most hacks never actually push the GBA's limits or hit a brick walls from hardware limitations.

                            Most of us see obvious limits in the amount of colors a tile or sprite can be, or the 64x64 size of sprites ect. If those are troublesome for you, then perhaps you should not be hacking gen III. I find the bigger limits don't rest on the hardware's shoulders, but the hacker.
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                              #19    
                            Old 3 Days Ago (9:43 PM).
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                              I just noticed that playing roms on the computer is just not as fun or engaging for me as physically owning a copy of the game, putting it into my DS Lite and playing. Maybe I am just weird idk. I mean I tried it, bought an SNES controller for it (btw works great for GB, GBA, and DS games) but it just doesn't satisfy me. Maybe it's nostalgia? Idk but I plan to buy diamond, heart gold, and emerald for my handhelds. Just need a new battery for my SP, which I've had 3 of and ironically got all 3 for free.....well no I actually got my first SP and 2nd copy of leaf green from a guy for a frozen dinner and a pepsi. He sure musta been hungry :O
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                                #20    
                              Old 2 Days Ago (2:16 AM).
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                                I personally don't spend much time in the ROM hacking side of things, I spend more time in the Game Development section. But I see a pretty common trend there that is probably present somewhat in the Hacking section, and could potentially contribute to a decline in popularity there, if any.

                                Thing is, new devs or hackers always seem to want to make a game as fast and as easily as they possibly can, and then reap the rewards of fame and popularity from that, despite that's unlikely to happen regardless. They don't want to put in years of effort to make a game - despite the fact that that's usually what it takes. They want maximum return for minimal effort.

                                And from what I've seen and heard, hacking a ROM takes a lot of effort, as compared to an RMXP game. I don't know the details of it, but I would imagine that taking an already finished game and making massive alterations to make it into another game would take more time and knowledge than simply making something from the ground up. Especially since a lot of them aren't too keen on trying to learn it, but instead try to find others to do it for them. I don't know if that's a common thing in ROM hacking, but I've seen it more than a few times in Game Dev.

                                So, I would imagine that any decline in the ROM hacking community could be because of the time and effort required to make a hack. People aiming to make their own Pokemon want to rush through and make a game and get popular, and they want to take the easiest route to that. And ROM hacking is - at least in their minds - way too hard for them.
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                                  #21    
                                Old 2 Days Ago (8:08 AM).
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                                Absolutely. It's hard to make a great hack, and in these days, hacking standards have gone up and perhaps that intimidates new folks from joining in on the fun. Personally, I still do think the decline is mostly because less people are playing ROM Hacks. We get far fewer posts on the forums in this section now.
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                                  #22    
                                Old 2 Days Ago (10:21 AM).
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                                  Romhacking and fangames are definitively declining... I thing one of the reasons is that official Pokemon games are now in 3D, so people dont get that charmed about 2D old school-looking games.
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                                    #23    
                                  Old 2 Days Ago (3:34 PM).
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                                    The biggest fear I have lingering in the back of my mind is that one day people will get bored of not just Pokemon Rom Hacks, but of Pokemon in general. I'm a weird person who always expects the worse, so this a really big unfounded fear I have.

                                    That being said, I do think that at this point in time, the admiration and love for Pokemon and Pokemon Rom Hacking isn't going down. It's just that the tools and assets of Gen 3 haven't been completely disassembled to the point it's not as scary or intimidating to new comers.

                                    I grew up with the 3rd gen games and hope that Rom Hacking this scene picks back up, but if it doesn't and people have moved on to Gen 4 and 5, so be it. I'm just grateful we're just getting some more Pokemon to play.
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                                      #24    
                                    Old 2 Days Ago (9:50 PM).
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                                      Quote:
                                      Originally Posted by Mexi-American Martian View Post
                                      The biggest fear I have lingering in the back of my mind is that one day people will get bored of not just Pokemon Rom Hacks, but of Pokemon in general. I'm a weird person who always expects the worse, so this a really big unfounded fear I have.

                                      That being said, I do think that at this point in time, the admiration and love for Pokemon and Pokemon Rom Hacking isn't going down. It's just that the tools and assets of Gen 3 haven't been completely disassembled to the point it's not as scary or intimidating to new comers.

                                      I grew up with the 3rd gen games and hope that Rom Hacking this scene picks back up, but if it doesn't and people have moved on to Gen 4 and 5, so be it. I'm just grateful we're just getting some more Pokemon to play.
                                      Hate to stoke your fear here, but if Game Freak continues on its trajectory of making content for the lowest common denominator, skimping out on meaningful postgame, and bogging down the main game with endless tutorials, Pokemon will only be played by very small children who will not want to go back to the "dark ages" of 2D games. Then, once the veteran hackers move on, there will be pretty much no one to hand the reins to and the hacking community splinters.
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                                        #25    
                                      Old 2 Days Ago (10:35 PM).
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                                        I can see what you mean about the emulation @Blah...
                                        The GBA in of its self is quite amazing for what it is capable of in the right programmers hands.

                                        When it comes to Gen III games I don't think they will ever fully fall as there will always be some who find the games to be appealing. I my self like the sprites and tile based games over the 3D but that's just me and I'm sure I'm not the only one with that opinion.

                                        I do agree though that when most come in to the modding seen they kinda do expect to make a hack as fast as possible and when they realize how much it really takes. They move on to something else...
                                        Honestly, when you think about it.

                                        Modding could be done quite fast with the right tools or tool...
                                        Though lots of tools are quite outdated and the ones that where being made to replace them have pretty much stopped.
                                        It would be amazing to have a Gen III IDE, as the better tools brings down the learning curve.
                                        But I have seen it mentioned many times that each tool made, basically takes away from the real point of hacking/modding.

                                        This is why you don't see to many patches or bases anymore.
                                        Some Asm hacks(like the Ev-Iv-Screen) now require you to have a C dev environment to compile and install it. Ergo(for win user like me) Cygwin, Devkitpro, CMake ect... Not complaining at all as I personally don't mind, but for the ones who are not code savy but are writers and artists I can see the struggle.
                                        Some people just want to make a good hack and not have to deal with all the technical aspects like those of us who do like trying to understand why everything works the way it does and how can we make it do what we want.
                                        I say build them the tools and lets see what amazing fruits they create.

                                        With things like MineCraft and so many other builder type games I can see Gen I, II and III being even more popular than ever if the community comes together in refining the documentation and tools all together.

                                        There is quite a lot the Gen III games still have that haven't been even explored really.
                                        From Multi-player(wireless and lan), Mini Games, and even using the Z80(where possible for sound) as some Gba games have done it.
                                        I mean if you think about it, Pokemon JP Crystal had Mobile and Internet functionality!

                                        That right there just shows what we could really do with the Gba and Gen III games all together.


                                        As for Pokemon Declining, I would say it is becoming far more of a kids game and the newer games have lost appeal to me personally.
                                        Again though if they do go with a more edgy anime and games that are not so dang predictable then I will take a look again. I can say with the Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon that didn't help their case in any way hahahaha
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