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  #26    
Old April 29th, 2018 (7:03 PM).
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If example you confessed your love to a person and he/she say ," Let's be friend first?". What does this mean in your point of view?
(P/S: You guys are already friend but not quite long)
I don't think you should outright confess in that way and then follow it up with "but friends first!"
It'll make things awkward.

I more prefer the "Hey, you know, I'm interested in you, but let's start as friends" and see if they share that spark at all.

I've found that telling someone you 'love' them should be saved for when you really are. A crush or even budding interest should not be considered the same thing.
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  #27    
Old 4 Weeks Ago (2:20 AM).
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    So I have this friend, and we're really close to each other (like bestfriends), and I confessed to her. She said I don't know and after that we became awkward to each other (until now).
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      #28    
    Old 4 Weeks Ago (5:47 AM).
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    Quote:
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    So I have this friend, and we're really close to each other (like bestfriends), and I confessed to her. She said I don't know and after that we became awkward to each other (until now).
    How long have you known each other? If you're that close, you should be able to just ask how to deal with it and work it out.

    If it's not really that long, then you might've done it too soon.

    If you consider yourself BEST friends already, I wouldn't think the latter is the case, so if she's that good of a friend and even worth your time as someone beyond that, hopefully she should be willing to discuss or talk it out.
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    Old 4 Weeks Ago (11:03 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Enpatsu Shakugan View Post
      How long have you known each other? If you're that close, you should be able to just ask how to deal with it and work it out.

      If it's not really that long, then you might've done it too soon.

      If you consider yourself BEST friends already, I wouldn't think the latter is the case, so if she's that good of a friend and even worth your time as someone beyond that, hopefully she should be willing to discuss or talk it out.
      We've been friends for 5 years already and we just got close last year since we were classmates. The first four years we were just normal friends doing normal friend things. When she and I became awkward, I felt like I shouldn't have confessed.
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        #30    
      Old 4 Weeks Ago (11:09 PM).
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      We've been friends for 5 years already and we just got close last year since we were classmates. The first four years we were just normal friends doing normal friend things. When she and I became awkward, I felt like I shouldn't have confessed.
      If you can't discuss it with someone like that, I don't know who you possibly could.

      I'd personally ask to discuss it. Obviously nothing will happen if you let it be any longer. It's only getting worse doing that.
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        #31    
      Old 4 Weeks Ago (11:12 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Enpatsu Shakugan View Post
        If you can't discuss it with someone like that, I don't know who you possibly could.

        I'd personally ask to discuss it. Obviously nothing will happen if you let it be any longer. It's only getting worse doing that.
        She said to me we should go back to being pals again but I don't know. It's kind of hard to start acting normal again once you know and she knows you like her. We've been living our normal lives without each other so I don't know if she and I needs to discuss it further.
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          #32    
        Old 4 Weeks Ago (5:48 AM).
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        She said to me we should go back to being pals again but I don't know. It's kind of hard to start acting normal again once you know and she knows you like her. We've been living our normal lives without each other so I don't know if she and I needs to discuss it further.
        It sounds to me she's either not interested romantically in you, or more probable, you've been friend zoned big time.
        Tricky situation. You've been just friends for too long, so now you're basically her brother in her mind with zero romantic prospects.

        Honestly, stay her friend, but look for a different woman in your life. That should ease the awkwardness between you too.
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          #33    
        Old 4 Weeks Ago (10:34 AM). Edited 4 Weeks Ago by Omega.
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Enpatsu Shakugan View Post
          It sounds to me she's either not interested romantically in you, or more probable, you've been friend zoned big time.
          Tricky situation. You've been just friends for too long, so now you're basically her brother in her mind with zero romantic prospects.

          Honestly, stay her friend, but look for a different woman in your life. That should ease the awkwardness between you too.
          She considers me a friend and she really wants us to go back to the good ol' days, so I might just change back.

          But damn bro, you're right. Thanks a lot.
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            #34    
          Old 4 Weeks Ago (11:17 AM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Omega View Post
          She considers me a friend and she really wants us to go back to the good ol' days, so I might just change back.

          But damn bro, your right. Thanks a lot.
          Yeah, man. Why do you think the friend zone is so infamous?
          Unless something happens where you either save her or have some life altering experience together, women are pretty stubborn about it and I doubt it'll change.

          Hopefully the more you ponder it, the easier it'll be to move on to a different girl for your wants. You might even question if you were really attracted to her, etc, or if you too always wanted to stay just friends.
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            #35    
          Old 4 Weeks Ago (12:51 PM). Edited 4 Weeks Ago by colours.
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          mfw people think the friend zone is some magical power only women have and can exert upon poor men just because they dont want to pursue a relationship.

          just a notice that women are human beings and we are free to just remain friends just as you would want to remain friends with a girl you didn't have feelings for. the usage of the term "friend zone" is absolutely insulting and degrading to the individual who just isn't interested in romantic pursuits

          i get it, rejection is hard. confessing to someone is going to be super difficult because it does have the potential to alter the dynamics of the friendship that you're in, but only if you both really let it. if she isn't interested, that's fine. it's better to accept the outcome than to do anything that would risk harming your friendship with her.

          if she wants to make it awkward and uncomfortable despite your willingness to move on, then that's her fault at the end of the day but not because she's a woman, but because that's just poor character on her part.

          let's not generalize all women
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            #36    
          Old 4 Weeks Ago (1:11 PM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by Enpatsu Shakugan.
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          mfw people think the friend zone is some magical power only women have and can exert upon poor men just because they dont want to pursue a relationship.

          just a notice that women are human beings and we are free to just remain friends just as you would want to remain friends with a girl you didn't have feelings for. the usage of the term "friend zone" is absolutely insulting and degrading to the individual who just isn't interested in romantic pursuits

          i get it, rejection is hard. confessing to someone is going to be super difficult because it does have the potential to alter the dynamics of the friendship that you're in, but only if you both really let it. if she isn't interested, that's fine. it's better to accept the outcome than to do anything that would risk harming your friendship with her.

          if she wants to make it awkward and uncomfortable despite your willingness to move on, then that's her fault at the end of the day but not because she's a woman, but because that's just poor character on her part.

          let's not generalize all women

          Of course anyone can apply the FZ strategy, and it's not any iron clad rule or notion. The term itself is just a blanket term used to describe this situation, which, let's be honest, that's exactly the situation he was in bar none.
          The notion of it, and women's usage of it don't stem out of nothing. This situation is actually very common, of women to men, and it makes sense, as women 9 times out of 10 are the ones being pursued.

          How you jumped to these conclusions from this exchange between two guys is baffling.

          I think you're the one generalizing. Why is Friend Zone offensive to you when you flat out admitted people are people and it can apply to anyone? That makes it a derogatory female comment? Even when I agreed with you on it?
          See what I mean?
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            #37    
          Old 4 Weeks Ago (1:29 PM). Edited 4 Weeks Ago by colours.
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          ... i was being snarky, in which my bigger point is that the concept of the friend zone is absolutely absurd

          whether it's a woman or a guy, it doesn't matter. if you have feelings for someone and they dont share those feelings back and they just want to be friends, calling yourself "friendzoned" trivializes their feelings and places you as the victim of some emotional crime that Shant Not be committed

          and you know what's really baffling? making statements like this that come from your own post

          Quote:
          women are pretty stubborn about it and I doubt it'll change.
          this is literally the exact definition of generalization. it's not a hard concept to grasp, dude. just don't generalize women like this. it's disrespectful and degrating and makes you look like some sort of chauvinist.
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            #38    
          Old 4 Weeks Ago (1:33 PM).
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          i’ll just say that I basically agree with Angie but let’s relax here people
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            #39    
          Old 4 Weeks Ago (2:14 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by colours View Post
          ... i was being snarky, in which my bigger point is that the concept of the friend zone is absolutely absurd

          whether it's a woman or a guy, it doesn't matter. if you have feelings for someone and they dont share those feelings back and they just want to be friends, calling yourself "friendzoned" trivializes their feelings and places you as the victim of some emotional crime that Shant Not be committed

          and you know what's really baffling? making statements like this that come from your own post



          this is literally the exact definition of generalization. it's not a hard concept to grasp, dude. just don't generalize women like this. it's disrespectful and degrating and makes you look like some sort of chauvinist.
          That's my experience. Sorry if it came off as a generalization then. Should've been clearer.

          But I disagree, the Friend Zone concept is a thing and came about for a reason. To try and convince yourself it doesn't exist is baffling to me.

          Don't really see the point in being 'snarky' with your original response either... But whatever.
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            #40    
          Old 3 Weeks Ago (2:45 AM).
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          The friend zone exists... it's just not something that get's done to you in a malicious sense like some make out. If you love a friend and they don't feel the same way. Then you're friendzoned. That's all it is. It's not an attack on you and it shouldn't be treated as such but neither should we act like the term marginalises anyone either. For one thing, it's a gender-neutral experience.
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          Old 3 Weeks Ago (7:45 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by colours.
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          you really shouldn't be expected to be taken seriously if you use the term "friend zone" in any sort of capacity in a social situation.

          that just means that you have the mentality of an early high schooler who refuses to mentally grow up.

          the actual "act" (or whatever you wish to call it) of being friendzoned isn't what i have an issue with -- it's the term itself -- because it's a term used most often to mean entitlement of the other person's emotions in its most used context. yes, people (both men and women) """friend zone""" each other; it's a part of human nature. but to refer to it as friend zoning is something of a childish term that i wish people would let go.

          no one is entitled to the other person's emotions and the term implies one individual is victimised due to rejection, and that's not how it should be.
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            #42    
          Old 3 Weeks Ago (8:32 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by Enpatsu Shakugan.
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by colours View Post
          you really shouldn't be expected to be taken seriously if you use the term "friend zone" in any sort of capacity in a social situation.

          that just means that you have the mentality of an early high schooler who refuses to mentally grow up.

          the actual "act" (or whatever you wish to call it) of being friendzoned isn't what i have an issue with -- it's the term itself -- because it's a term used most often to mean entitlement of the other person's emotions in its most used context. yes, people (both men and women) """friend zone""" each other; it's a part of human nature. but to refer to it as friend zoning is something of a childish term that i wish people would let go.

          no one is entitled to the other person's emotions and the term implies one individual is victimised due to rejection, and that's not how it should be.
          Why are you getting so defensive about something that wasn't even aimed at you? You're taking it like a literal personal attack.
          If you lash out every time someone uses a term you don't like, you're in for a life of nothing but pointless anger. :/
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            #43    
          Old 3 Weeks Ago (9:18 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by colours.
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Enpatsu Shakugan View Post
          Why are you getting so defensive about something that wasn't even aimed at you? You're taking it like a literal personal attack.
          If you lash out every time someone uses a term you don't like, you're in for a life of nothing but pointless anger. :/
          that post was actually really calm so dont misinterpret it. :>

          im free to express my opinion about my dislike of the term, which is precisely what im doing.
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            #44    
          Old 3 Weeks Ago (9:51 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by Enpatsu Shakugan.
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          that post was actually really calm so dont misinterpret it. :>

          im free to express my opinion about my dislike of the term, which is precisely what im doing.
          Didnt seem calm to me.

          That's fine, but it's also a two way street. You come off like you're actively trying to get people stop using that word simply because YOU don't like it.

          And you've posted multiple times, not just the first one to express disapproval, each time attempting to discredit anyone who uses the term, for no other reason than it riles you. And despite the fact most everyone else is saying it's the only term to use for what is happening and these circumstances at hand.

          I'm sorry just the term itself riles you, but that's what we have to use, so it's going to be used. And if it bothers you THAT much, then just don't browse topics like this. We're also free to use any term we want too. And then to try to actively discredit the intelligence of someone for no reason but the terms they use, rather than the points they're actually making is pretty petty if you ask me.

          It seems like we actually agree on the points at hand, just you won't see past the terms themselves. I would work on that. The message matters, not the words used.
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            #45    
          Old 3 Weeks Ago (10:13 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by colours.
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          Didnt seem calm to me.

          That's fine, but it's also a two way street. You come off like you're actively trying to get people stop using that word simply because YOU don't like it.

          And you've posted multiple times, not just the first one to express disapproval, each time attempting to discredit anyone who uses the term, for no other reason than it riles you. And despite the fact most everyone else is saying it's the only term to use for what is happening and these circumstances at hand.

          I'm sorry just the term itself riles you, but that's what we have to use, so it's going to be used. And if it bothers you THAT much, then just don't browse topics like this. We're also free to use any term we want too. And then to try to actively discredit the intelligence of someone for no reason but the terms they use, rather than the points they're actually making is pretty foolish and petty if you ask me.

          It seems like we actually agree on the points at hand, just hours can't see past the terms themselves. I would work on that. The message matters, not the words used.
          It seems we've reached some sort of misunderstanding because of the tone of my posts.

          Words have power. Saying "I'm sorry if it offends you, get over it" is a rather poor attitude to go through life with. With that perspective, people can use whatever slurs they want because "I'm sorry if it riles you, but if it bothers you that much then don't pay attention to what I'm saying". That's not how this works, sorry to say. Words have a lot more punch than you think, so slinging them around haphazardly is rather unwise.

          It's not even my personal distate of the word (which you seem to only be focused on); there are other words that I dislike that I put up with. It's my distate of the phrase in general in the context that it's most applied to, which is usually shaming women because they don't share romantic feelings for men. It doesn't even have to be directed towards me; as a woman, I don't take kindly towards that because reading that made me feel belittled as a person.

          As an aside bluntly speaking, this is a public forum and I am allowed to read whatever threads I want. If you don't want me to respond to whatever posts you make, then take the conversation privately with the other party. Saying "just get over it/don't read this thread" is rather ridiculous reasoning.

          If you are unable to grasp the depth that certain words have in tandem with who they're targeted to and the intent, then I suggest you refrain from using those words.
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            #46    
          Old 3 Weeks Ago (10:22 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by Enpatsu Shakugan.
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          Quote:
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          It seems we've reached some sort of misunderstanding because of the tone of my posts.

          Words have power. Saying "I'm sorry if it offends you, get over it" is a rather poor attitude to go through life with. With that perspective, people can use whatever slurs they want because "I'm sorry if it riles you, but if it bothers you that much then don't pay attention to what I'm saying". That's not how this works, sorry to say. Words have a lot more punch than you think, so slinging them around haphazardly is rather unwise.

          It's not even my personal distate of the word (which you seem to only be focused on); there are other words that I dislike that I put up with. It's my distate of the phrase in general in the context that it's most applied to, which is usually shaming women because they don't share romantic feelings for men. It doesn't even have to be directed towards me; as a woman, I don't take kindly towards that because reading that made me feel belittled as a person.

          As an aside bluntly speaking, this is a public forum and I am allowed to read whatever threads I want. If you don't want me to respond to whatever posts you make, then take the conversation privately with the other party. Saying "just get over it/don't read this thread" is rather ridiculous reasoning.

          If you are unable to grasp the depth that certain words have in tandem with who they're targeted to and the intent, then I suggest you refrain from using those words.
          I disagree, I think that's the best attitude for life.

          We live in this ultra PC world these days, where everyone is so deathly afraid to say ANYTHING that could possibly 'offend' anyone, and now there's this subgroup of people who get offended by absolutely everything.
          THAT is the poor attitude to have. And yes, words do have power; but a word like "Friend Zone" is pushing it. It's not a direct attack on anyone and is simply a blanket statement to define a certain set of romantic circumstances. If you feel even that's offensive... then, yeah, life is going to be hard for you.

          I'll let this video say it for me, as I can't say it better:

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            #47    
          Old 3 Weeks Ago (10:29 PM).
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            Let's not act like friendzoning doesn't have a real, entitled and harmful culture around it. Are we really gonna ignore incels now?

            Not sure why you're going on about living in a super PC world or whatever. Seems like you're the one that can't take a comment you don't like because you're going off about terms instead of actually addressing her problem with said culture.
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              #48    
            Old 3 Weeks Ago (10:57 PM).
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            Let's not act like friendzoning doesn't have a real, entitled and harmful culture around it. Are we really gonna ignore incels now?

            Not sure why you're going on about living in a super PC world or whatever. Seems like you're the one that can't take a comment you don't like because you're going off about terms instead of actually addressing her problem with said culture.
            Please start this up again.

            I get completely there's a nasty culture around it. Love shy, etc, where lonely men use FZ term, blame women because they feel entitled, etc.

            Why is using the simple term now synonymous with the most negative aspect? You know it can have other meanings too, right? The world isn't black or white only.

            Everything has its extremes. And it's almost always the worst aspect possible.

            And if you don't get what I mean by ultra PC world... I see you're on Tumblr. What I consider to be THE hivemind of this 'everything offends me' subculture. And if you want my honest opinion, that site alone is the most toxic site on the entire internet.

            So if you want to continue this, talk to me in private and not let this go more off topic.
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              #49    
            Old 2 Weeks Ago (4:56 PM). Edited 2 Weeks Ago by twocows.
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            Unrequited love really, really sucks. We can't help how we feel, it's just a part of our biology. If you're genuinely in love with someone, you obviously want what's best for them, but you're also distinctly aware that your feelings for them aren't what's best for them. And yet you can't help but feel that way about them.

            If you're lucky, you know you're interested in someone right away. If that's the case, the best thing to do is just to confess; if you're rejected, it's not that big of a deal, you don't really lose anything. But it's not always that simple. A lot of times you fall in love with someone over the course of (or because of) your interactions with them. By then you might have a friendship with them that you value a lot and don't want to sour it with a potential rejection. If you don't confess, though, you'll keep wondering what could have been and you'll usually end up regretting it. Both choices lead to a bad outcome. If you do confess and you do get rejected, you might lose the friendship. But even if you manage to keep the friendship in either of these cases, then you have to live with the fact that the person you like is going to continue to pursue other romantic interests. And that hurts. And I mean bad.

            So what to do? Most people are going to have to deal with rejection at some point in their lives, and in a lot of cases they'll have to deal with it before they're emotionally and mentally mature enough to handle it well. We should really try and prepare kids to deal with rejection early on, but they're never going to know just how bad it is until they experience it. What that means is that we need to be willing to help people who are currently dealing with rejection so they don't go off the deep end.

            I saw entitlement being mentioned earlier. It's certainly true that nobody is ever owed a relationship, and I think you need to be firm with someone dealing with rejection so that they understand this. But you also have to understand that someone dealing with rejection is in a really bad place; they're feeling alone, hurt, and unwanted. In rare cases, it may be the worst they've ever hurt in their life. Being judgmental or scornful is not going to help them, it's not what they need. What they need is to know they're not alone, that other people have experienced this, and that they can get through it. That as bad as they feel right now, it won't be that way forever.

            I'm going to go off track here, but this ties in and I think it's important. There's something really nasty that can happen right around this time to people who lack the kind of social support structure to deal with this. When these people are at their lowest and when they have no one they can talk to about these kinds of things, no one who will empathize with them, that's when they're at their most vulnerable. And sometimes, that's when they'll encounter a group of people out there who do understand their pain, people who are in (or have recently been in) the same exact situation. People who will empathize with them, will tell them it's not their fault and that they're still a good person. And these people will offer a very attractive solution: that the person you liked and people like them are the bad guys for rejecting you.

            People who espouse this ideology are commonly known as incels and were brought up earlier in the thread. Incels follow a cult ideology (I'll explain this in a minute) and the way they are commonly talked about and talked to is not helpful if you actually want to prevent people from taking up that ideology or convincing people to leave it.

            You have to understand just how attractive this idea is to someone dealing with rejection. It validates their existence and makes them feel better about themselves, it gives them a target for their negativity, and it gives them a support group of hundreds or even thousands of people who have experienced similar things. This is why I call it a cult ideology; cults grow in almost exactly the same way. If you want to know why the incel population has exploded so rapidly, just look at why cults are successful: it's because in many cases they're the only people willing to empathize with people in a crappy situation and offer them a way to improve it. Saying these kinds of groups prey on vulnerable people is true, but it also misses something important: that the people doing the "preying" are people who were in the same situation themselves and genuinely believe the cult has improved their lot. It's victims preying upon victims with nothing but good intentions.

            This situation, which is already bad, is exacerbated by how people react to the "cultists." Typical reactions include disgust, mockery, scorn, etc. These are certainly natural reactions to someone saying some really stupid or horrible stuff, but they're also extremely unhelpful. Telling someone in this situation that they're awful, deplorable, hateful, etc. only further isolates them from normal society and drives them further into the arms of the cult, who tells them they're right and that the people condemning them are the bad guys.

            So again, what to do? This problem is bigger than any individual person. Getting rid of the incel ideology requires large-scale changes in the way we collectively understand and respond to rejection and people going through it. It's not something that's going to be solved overnight, but if you genuinely want to help do away with it (and you absolutely should), I think you should start by being a bit less judgmental and a bit more empathetic toward people dealing with rejection. I'm not saying you shouldn't stand firm on your principles, because you should: people going through this do need to be aware of when they're starting to cross the line. But you should also understand that they're human beings going through something really awful and that what they really need is help getting through it.
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            Old 2 Weeks Ago (5:40 PM). Edited 2 Weeks Ago by colours.
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            Interesting view you have, twomoos. :o

            I think, at least from my perspective, the most common saying in this world is that "love is complicated". No matter how you try to look at it, there's no rational way to analyze love because it can't be something that can be rationalized or analyzed I dont think; using logic to explain emotion is one of the most dangerous things one can do (heh, and we're doing something similar in this very discussion, I think). It leads to all sort of assumptions that can be dangerous and as a result can even bring about an unhealthy mindset in people.

            In this, I agree, and I don't mind saying this a thousand times over with you: unrequited love really does suck. There's very few things in this world worse than having feelings for someone; wanting to build a happy relationship with them only have all of that crumble in front of your face when they mention that they just... don't see you like that. It's crushing no doubt. In that moment of defeat, at least for some of us, we start wondering what went wrong. We start asking ourselves tons of questions, despite what we were told. Despite being told that it's perfectly okay being friends, some of us start thinking... "what if it's not me, but them?"

            It's this particular "this person is at fault for not liking me" mindset that I have a problem with, which therefore leads to the beginning of your fourth paragraph: no one is ever owed a relationship, and this sort of thinking is born from the thought that there's something wrong with being friends. That there's something wrong with the very notion of "let's just be friends" that somehow invokes a feeling of betrayal in the ones being rejected. It's this very immature thought that I have a problem with, because it breeds this feeling of animosity towards the individual rejecting you and... why? No matter how you really look at the mindset of handling a rejection, there is such thing as a right and a wrong way of handling it, and harboring negative emotions towards what was once a friend or a best friend just becuase they don't share those feelings is the childish, wrong way to handle it. Why sabotage the friendship just because of your inability to handle the rejection? Instead of letting the friendship continue as normal, you're just slowly building a grudge towards this individual for stepping on your heart and ruining what could've been.

            I realize that this is excessive thinking in this scenario, but this is love we're talking about here. Many people are terrified that confessing to their (best) friends can change and alter the very dynamics of the friendship, but I've never personally understood why it would have that kind of gravity unless one of the parties makes it awkward in which case, I have to be blunt here: were they really suitable friends to begin with if they aren't willing to see past your emotion and just see you for the good friend that you've always been, and vice-versa?

            Love comes in many forms after all, and only one of those forms is romantic love. For some reason, there's this negativity surrounding platonic love that I will never understand but in my eyes, platonic love can feel just as real as romantic love, and i wish more people were aware of this.
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