• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.
    Register

[Dubbed] SM Passimian Episode Dub Banned.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Frozocrone

Frozocrone

Fighting a bigger fight
1,472
Posts
9
Years
Had you been black...it wouldn't matter what colour you are.

Just because you personally didn't find it offensive, regardless of your colour, does not suddenly mean everybody, regardless of their colour, wouldn't have found it offensive.

Wouldn't be surprised TPCi just decided to avoid the headache that someone, somewhere would have found it offensive. All it takes is one person who wants attention/a quick buck and a media outlet looking to make a news story.
 

weedle_mchairybug

Banned
2,688
Posts
19
Years
  • Seen Aug 29, 2020
Frozocrone said:
Had you been black...it wouldn't matter what colour you are.

Just because you personally didn't find it offensive, regardless of your colour, does not suddenly mean everybody, regardless of their colour, wouldn't have found it offensive.

Wouldn't be surprised TPCi just decided to avoid the headache that someone, somewhere would have found it offensive. All it takes is one person who wants attention/a quick buck and a media outlet looking to make a news story.
Click to expand...

By that logic, they also can't ban the episode precisely because that one person could decide to claim them banning the episode makes the Disney guys racist. See the problem with that argument? It goes both ways, and causes the same headache regardless. And like I said, barely anyone had a problem with Everett and his crew in O Brother Where Art Thou when they wore blackface at a KKK rally, and the script actually stated they were in blackface, so it isn't even speculation:

Behind Everett in the deep background someone emerges from
the ranks into the middle aisle. He approaches with a strong,
purposeful stride - Big Dan Teague, bareheaded, holding his
hood under his arm.

Everett hisses again:

EVERETT
Hey Tommy!

Tommy looks back over his shoulder.

TOMMY
...Huh?

Everett is oblivious to the big man approaching from behind.

EVERETT
It's us! We come to rescue ya!

TOMMY
That's mighty kind of ya boys, but I
don't think nothin's gonna save me
now - the devil's come to collect
his due!

PETE
Tommy, you don't wanna get hanged!

TOMMY
Naw I don't guess I do, but that's
the way it seems to be workin' out.

EVERETT
Listen to me, Tommy, I got a plan -

Whoosh - arriving Big Dan whips the hood from Everett's head.
Everett is exposed - in blackface.

The chanting abruptly stops. The crowd is stunned.

Big Dan whips off the other two hoods - Delmar and Pete, in
blackface.
Click to expand...

Emphasis mine.

And here's the link if you don't believe me:

http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/O-Brother-Where-Art-Thou?.html

Besides, Ash's passimian outfit doesn't even LOOK like blackface anyway. If you look at the image I spoilered due to size, you'd see what ACTUAL blackface looks like (I'll give you a hint: Jynx and Mr. Popo, heck, Staff Officer Black, Android 15 and Killer even, came far closer to actually LOOKING like blackface than Ash in his Passimian suit did). It's not just placing black paint on your face. If anything, Ash's Passimian outfit would have better resembled the Black Face Paint from Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, or heck, even one of the MSF balaclavas in Peace Walker. So unless you think the Al Sharptons should order for a riot or protest over the use of Black Face Paint in, say, Act of Valor, not to mention the Metal Gear games, I'd strongly suggest you stop inferring that Ash's use of the paint was racist.
 
Frozocrone

Frozocrone

Fighting a bigger fight
1,472
Posts
9
Years
Except that since the episode hasn't been localised, people have said TPCi and Disney are idiots and free speech and everything...except being racist. But I'll concede this point if you can find an instance.

And sorry to disappoint, but Ash's case actually resembles blackface more than the other cases you've stated.

You see, those characters may look like they have blackface on...but have dark complexions to begin with. There is no need to make these character have darker complexions, they were like that to begin with.

Ash has a lighter complexion, made darker by the use of face paint to impersonate someone or something with a darker complexion, which is exactly what blackface was meant to do.

The examples for OBWAT and Metal Gear just don't hold up to Ash's case. In those cases, neither tries to impersonate black people. In OBWAT, the dirt used for 'blackface' wasn't to impersonate black people, but rather to blend into the night the previous night. With Metal Gear, it's again to blend into the background. You see the difference and why no-one called foul? The intent is completely different.

The balaclava...no, just...no. It's not even remotely related to blackface. You're just wearing an item of clothing designed to hide facial features.

Was Ash's case intentionally racist, or at least ignorant? Was this even racist at all? More than likely not in all cases in the Japanese production crew's eyes. They probably thought to include the face paint to better resemble Passimian, not to encourage years of racial oppression. Evidently so, the thing they tried to imitate wasn't a black person, but rather one of the many magical creatures the show is filled with and frequently showcases.

Sadly for the Japanese production crew, not everything is 'black and white', so to speak. There are no simple sums like in mathematics where 2+2 will always be 4. Art and entertainment as a medium is entirely subjective to interpretation and what may be deemed fine in Japan, may not be deemed fine in the West and vice versa.
 

weedle_mchairybug

Banned
2,688
Posts
19
Years
  • Seen Aug 29, 2020
Frozocrone said:
Except that since the episode hasn't been localised, people have said TPCi and Disney are idiots and free speech and everything...except being racist. But I'll concede this point if you can find an instance.

And sorry to disappoint, but Ash's case actually resembles blackface more than the other cases you've stated.

You see, those characters may look like they have blackface on...but have dark complexions to begin with. There is no need to make these character have darker complexions, they were like that to begin with.

Ash has a lighter complexion, made darker by the use of face paint to impersonate someone or something with a darker complexion, which is exactly what blackface was meant to do.

The examples for OBWAT and Metal Gear just don't hold up to Ash's case. In those cases, neither tries to impersonate black people. In OBWAT, the dirt used for 'blackface' wasn't to impersonate black people, but rather to blend into the night the previous night. With Metal Gear, it's again to blend into the background. You see the difference and why no-one called foul? The intent is completely different.

The balaclava...no, just...no. It's not even remotely related to blackface. You're just wearing an item of clothing designed to hide facial features.

Was Ash's case intentionally racist, or at least ignorant? Was this even racist at all? More than likely not in all cases in the Japanese production crew's eyes. They probably thought to include the face paint to better resemble Passimian, not to encourage years of racial oppression. Evidently so, the thing they tried to imitate wasn't a black person, but rather one of the many magical creatures the show is filled with and frequently showcases.

Sadly for the Japanese production crew, not everything is 'black and white', so to speak. There are no simple sums like in mathematics where 2+2 will always be 4. Art and entertainment as a medium is entirely subjective to interpretation and what may be deemed fine in Japan, may not be deemed fine in the West and vice versa.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Passimians aren't even people, they're Pok?mon, so him posing as a Passimian doesn't come across as promoting racism any more than Ash outright capturing and owning two Monkey/Ape-like Pok?mon does. And you do realize that there ARE balaclavas that literally expose the eyes and mouth as well, right? All it takes is one race-baiting idiot to get THOSE banned for blackface just for merely LOOKING like blackface regardless of intent (after all, Jynx and Mr. Popo got banned/altered just for merely LOOKING like blackface despite, as you pointed out, their naturally looking like that.). And do you REALLY think the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would even CARE if OBWAT or, heck, even Snake Eater's use of black face paint was for stealth? No. They'll still try to get them banned under charges of racism, no matter how ridiculous, making their entire livelihood ginning up controversy regarding race (there's even evidence that the whole reason there was a housing crash back in 2008 was because they legally forced Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to provide homes to people who obviously couldn't afford them by threatening to denounce them as racists if they didn't). For goodness sakes, it's because of people like them that Song of the South got banned, not to mention screwed up "What Made the Red Man Red" in Peter Pan. Not to mention it's not even consistent since they didn't try to get Bill Maher fired for, I don't know, outright comparing Donald Trump to an Orangutan. And the problem is, Ash's use of it was STILL not even close to blackface in terms of appearance. Do you see any lips on him? Absolutely not. Unless it looks exactly or very close to the example I used for blackface, it's not blackface, plain and simple. And, actually, arts and entertainment is not subjective. It's more like chemistry, if it's comparable to anything, and that ISN'T subjective at all (if you mix two chemicals that shouldn't be mixed, things would turn out badly, period.).

As far as an instance, you mean besides me, right? I think someone else on here actually mentioned that bit regarding racism regarding Disney and TCPi being racist.
 
Last edited:
CodeHelmet

CodeHelmet

Banned
3,375
Posts
6
Years
weedle_mchairybug said:
Seriously? Passimians aren't even people, they're Pok?mon, so him posing as a Passimian doesn't come across as promoting racism any more than Ash outright capturing and owning two Monkey/Ape-like Pok?mon does. And you do realize that there ARE balaclavas that literally expose the eyes and mouth as well, right? All it takes is one race-baiting idiot to get THOSE banned for blackface just for merely LOOKING like blackface regardless of intent (after all, Jynx and Mr. Popo got banned/altered just for merely LOOKING like blackface despite, as you pointed out, their naturally looking like that.). And do you REALLY think the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would even CARE if OBWAT or, heck, even Snake Eater's use of black face paint was for stealth? No. They'll still try to get them banned under charges of racism, no matter how ridiculous, making their entire livelihood ginning up controversy regarding race (there's even evidence that the whole reason there was a housing crash back in 2008 was because they legally forced Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to provide homes to people who obviously couldn't afford them by threatening to denounce them as racists if they didn't). For goodness sakes, it's because of people like them that Song of the South got banned, not to mention screwed up "What Made the Red Man Red" in Peter Pan. Not to mention it's not even consistent since they didn't try to get Bill Maher fired for, I don't know, outright comparing Donald Trump to an Orangutan. And the problem is, Ash's use of it was STILL not even close to blackface in terms of appearance. Do you see any lips on him? Absolutely not. Unless it looks exactly or very close to the example I used for blackface, it's not blackface, plain and simple. And, actually, arts and entertainment is not subjective. It's more like chemistry, if it's comparable to anything, and that ISN'T subjective at all (if you mix two chemicals that shouldn't be mixed, things would turn out badly, period.).

As far as an instance, you mean besides me, right? I think someone else on here actually mentioned that bit regarding racism regarding Disney and TCPi being racist.
Click to expand...

Bill Maher, last I checked, works for HBO, not DIsney, although he was under ABC at one time. Furthermore, those with left leaning views have a far greater leash when it comes to Freedom of Expression these days but it doesn't mean they don't come under fire for it. Maher in particular used the N-Word about a year ago and people called in for him to be fired. He apologized and still has his job. However, the blatant double standard regarding 1st Amendment incidents isn't what is up for debate here.

I've already made my point be known that they should have allowed everything, including Jynx and what not, to have aired unedited. This is Japan and one of their Animated series we're talking about here. They have no history of discriminating against African-Americans(Chinese and other cultures is another story...) so for TPC to ban an Episode(and here I thought it was Disney, although it doesn't surprise me that they gave no pushback on it), is merely them avoiding the potential backlash(as opposed to dealing with it as it comes and basically telling those offended to go F- themselves).
 
Quiji

Quiji

Shining
162
Posts
14
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Apr 6, 2021
I'm glad the episode got banned since Ash's Passimian disguise was just asking for trouble. I blame the Japanese producers for failing to take racial insensitivity into account, yet they do have a tendency to overlook that like when it came to Jynx and Lenora.
 

weedle_mchairybug

Banned
2,688
Posts
19
Years
  • Seen Aug 29, 2020
Quiji said:
I'm glad the episode got banned since Ash's Passimian disguise was just asking for trouble. I blame the Japanese producers for failing to take racial insensitivity into account, yet they do have a tendency to overlook that like when it came to Jynx and Lenora.
Click to expand...

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, JUST maybe, we're the ones who are getting WAY too sensitive regarding racial stuff? I mean, for goodness sakes, there had even been talks of denouncing CHICAGO as a racist term fairly recently, and that's despite it being a city in the United States.

I could understand, say, altering Jynx and Mr. Popo. Heck, I could even understand the Lenora bit, but the whole Passimian business doesn't even LOOK like racism. If it did, Ash would either have no soot on his lips, or otherwise be wearing red lipstick while acting like Passimian.
 

Hikamaru

50,218
Posts
13
Years
Quiji said:
I'm glad the episode got banned since Ash's Passimian disguise was just asking for trouble. I blame the Japanese producers for failing to take racial insensitivity into account, yet they do have a tendency to overlook that like when it came to Jynx and Lenora.
Click to expand...

It is sad when you realise the Japanese version of the anime has scenes that don't fly well in the West due to racial sensitivity. I do feel the Japanese producers haven't learned from the Jynx incident.
 

weedle_mchairybug

Banned
2,688
Posts
19
Years
  • Seen Aug 29, 2020
Hikamaru said:
It is sad when you realise the Japanese version of the anime has scenes that don't fly well in the West due to racial sensitivity. I do feel the Japanese producers haven't learned from the Jynx incident.
Click to expand...

To be fair to the producers, I really wouldn't have seen how that was even slightly similar to Jynx. At least Ash either covered most of his face with soot or otherwise didn't wear lipstick.
 
Quiji

Quiji

Shining
162
Posts
14
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Apr 6, 2021
TheGhostHunter said:
Honestly, I don't believe that the scene was intended to be antagonistic to African Americans, but I guess Disney XD decided not to air the episode as a cautionary measure.
Click to expand...

Plus since Disney already faced a certain degree of backlash due to the Roseanne "ape" incident a few months ago, I get why they'd want to avoid another race fiasco.
 
Last edited:

strangerhypno

2,823
Posts
6
Years
  • Age 122
  • Seen Jan 27, 2019
The wimps are at it again. Banning things for insane reasoning. Anyone who gets offended by an advertisement show in the form of a kids cartoon needs to rethink their lives.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top