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Political Spectrum & Parties

MortalPhoenix

68
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5
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  • Age 30
  • USA
  • Seen Nov 11, 2018
I find it interesting how in one country a person could be considered Left-Wing, but in another country, they would be considered a centrist. I find that happens when comparing the USA with Europe (I'm certain it happens in other countries too).

I know it would be nice to get rid of Political Parties, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Remove corruption from the mix, and it is clear that people like to group themselves with like minded people. Hell, we wouldn't be on a Pokemon Forum if one of our interest wasn't Pokemon.

The point of getting at, is that it can be frustrating when your political stance doesn't align closely enough with any of the existing parties that exist. You could be independent, but it doesn't change the fact that you are still unsure how many like minded people there are that share similar views that you do.

For example, I'm a registered Democrat in the USA. I find that the party isn't left enough for me. However, I look at parties in Europe and Socialist Parties in general, and they are too left for my taste.

In European terms, a Social Liberal would be the closest fit for me. However, it seems that all of the major political parties in Europe that are on the Left end of the political spectrum are either Socialsts or Social Democrats. You might find a Left of center party in Europe, but they are usually very small. Also, there aren't many Centrist Parties in Europe, and the Right-of-Center parties are just a little too Right for me.

I bet you have felt the same thing in your home country. Oh, and if you could post what country you are from, that would be nice!
 
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Enpatsu Shakugan

Enpatsu Shakugan

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Absolutely. I can't believe so many people focus more on what party someone is than what their actual ideas are.

Or even worse, when there's extreme animosity against one side, people will fervently vote for the other side, simply as a "non-vote", IE, "It's against someone, rather than FOR."

That's the level our political election system is at now. It's in dire need of an overhaul.

They shouldn't mention parties at all, or base their entire argument against someone in power (basically every Democrat right now, ranting like a spoiled child against Trump) and just say, maturely, "These are my plans and this is who I am."

Which, I thought, was the entire point of elected officials; to benefit us, not knock down our rivals.

I lean slightly more right, but I try to stick to the middle, as especially in this day and age, both sides are just the worst type of extreme. But I actually wanted to vote for a Democrat this election, surprising the hell out of me, simply because his advertisements were the only ones that didn't attack Trump or anyone, he just said "Here's my experience, these are my plans" and I admired that maturity and thought he had good experience for the job.
But because of parties, and the fact I've been registered Republican, I couldn't even vote for him.
That's dumb too.
 
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MortalPhoenix

68
Posts
5
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  • Age 30
  • USA
  • Seen Nov 11, 2018
Enpatsu Shakugan said:
Absolutely. I can't believe so many people focus more on what party someone is than what their actual ideas are.

Or even worse, when there's extreme animosity against one side, people will fervently vote for the other side, simply as a "non-vote", IE, "It's against someone, rather than FOR."

That's the level our political election system is at now. It's in dire need of an overhaul.

They shouldn't mention parties at all, or base their entire argument against someone in power (basically every Democrat right now, ranting like a spoiled child against Trump) and just say, maturely, "These are my plans and this is who I am."

Which, I thought, was the entire point of elected officials; to benefit us, not knock down our rivals.

I lean slightly more right, but I try to stick to the middle, as especially in this day and age, both sides are just the worst type of extreme. But I actually wanted to vote for a Democrat this election, surprising the hell out of me, simply because his advertisements were the only ones that didn't attack Trump or anyone, he just said "Here's my experience, these are my plans" and I admired that maturity and thought he had good experience for the job.
But because of parties, and the fact I've been registered Republican, I couldn't even vote for him.
That's dumb too.
Click to expand...

I assume you wanted to vote for Bernie Sanders? And yes, I wish people focused on ideas and not party. I hated that during the Democrat Primary, but other Democrats didn't want to vote for Sanders, because he wasn't a "True Democrat." Just dismiss him without hearing his ideas. You got to vote for Clinton, because if you don't, you are Sexist and you hate women! Stupid. Not a logical argument people. You can dislike Clinton without it having it be about her sex.

I may lean-left, but there are times in which someone who is Right-of-Center has an idea that makes sense. For example, not bailing out business that are failing. I would rather the money be spent helping people find jobs, and not be used to prop up a failing business.

I want Candidates to talk about what they want to do, not just attack their opponent for stupid reasons. "This candidate plays Pokemon. Would you trust someone in office who plays video games? People's Lives aren't a game *Insert opponent's name here*! Vote for *Insert Candidate's name here*. They understand that life isn't a game. Paid for by People who Hate Video Games."

One area I really want changed is our debates. In 2016, they were bad. The Republicans had way too many people on stage at once. Half the time you couldn't hear the Candidates during the Vice Presidential debates, and Clinton and Trump barely debated each other during their own debates.

I want debates in which one topic is focused, and it lasts for about two hours. Debates nowadays are, "You have 30 seconds to explain how you will fix the USA." There is no nuance in debates as a result.

Finally, although it likely won't happen, I wouldn't mind having the President and Vice President be from different parties. The idea is that they don't represent their parties, but the American people.
 
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Corrin

18,294
Posts
10
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I'm sort of in the same boat! The parties in my country aren't left enough for me, I think the ones that come closest are the NDP party.
I tend to be very open and rather loud about my political ideals too, which some people may find off putting but I guess it insures I don't meet people I wouldn't get along with?
 

MortalPhoenix

68
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5
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  • Age 30
  • USA
  • Seen Nov 11, 2018
Joker said:
I'm sort of in the same boat! The parties in my country aren't left enough for me, I think the ones that come closest are the NDP party.
I tend to be very open and rather loud about my political ideals too, which some people may find off putting but I guess it insures I don't meet people I wouldn't get along with?
Click to expand...

A Canadian! Nice to meet you. Shame to hear that. So, you would call yourself a Socialist, I assume?
How do you feel about Justin Trudeau?
 

Corrin

18,294
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I dislike him, because he seems to care more about public appearance than running the country. He hasn't kept many of his promises.
But he's not taking Trump's shit laying down, which is good.
 
Enpatsu Shakugan

Enpatsu Shakugan

1,824
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MortalPhoenix said:
I assume you wanted to vote for Bernie Sanders? And yes, I wish people focused on ideas and not party. I hated that during the Democrat Primary, but other Democrats didn't want to vote for Sanders, because he wasn't a "True Democrat." Just dismiss him without hearing his ideas. You got to vote for Clinton, because if you don't, you are Sexist and you hate women! Stupid. Not a logical argument people. You can dislike Clinton without it having it be about her sex.

I may lean-left, but there are times in which someone who is Right-of-Center has an idea that makes sense. For example, not bailing out business that are failing. I would rather the money be spent helping people find jobs, and not be used to prop up a failing business.

I want Candidates to talk about what they want to do, not just attack their opponent for stupid reasons. "This candidate plays Pokemon. Would you trust someone in office who plays video games? People's Lives aren't a game *Insert opponent's name here*! Vote for *Insert Candidate's name here*. They understand that life isn't a game. Paid for by People who Hate Video Games."

One area I really want changed is our debates. In 2016, they were bad. The Republicans had way too many people on stage at once. Half the time you couldn't hear the Candidates during the Vice Presidential debates, and Clinton and Trump barely debated each other during their own debates.

I want debates in which one topic is focused, and it lasts for about two hours. Debates nowadays are, "You have 30 seconds to explain how you will fix the USA." There is no nuance in debates as a result.

Finally, although it likely won't happen, I wouldn't mind having the President and Vice President be from different parties. The idea is that they don't represent their parties, but the American people.
Click to expand...

Oh not at all. Bernie was a psycho socialist. I was meaning just a few days ago in an election for governor out here. I couldn't vote for him since my party roster was different.

The actual Presidental election, I did vote middle though.
 

MortalPhoenix

68
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5
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  • Age 30
  • USA
  • Seen Nov 11, 2018
Enpatsu Shakugan said:
Oh not at all. Bernie was a psycho socialist. I was meaning just a few days ago in an election for governor out here. I couldn't vote for him since my party roster was different.

The actual Presidental election, I did vote middle though.
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That is why I wish the USA had same-day voting, as the current system we have just hurts people like you who have to keep changing your party when you want to vote. It is so dumb, because the actual debates usually happen after the cut off when you can change which party you want to vote for.
 
Desert Stream~

Desert Stream~

Holy Kipper!
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Well for that reason I'm gonna register as an independent when I can actually vote... in 2024 ;_; I don't see myself voting anything other then left, as I agree with most of their points but you never know, get those weird people running sometimes
I do think political parties do have their uses, it's useful finding a group of people who have similar ideas to you
but when you don't really agree with any party it gets complicated :/
 
Enpatsu Shakugan

Enpatsu Shakugan

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Catnip~ said:
Well for that reason I'm gonna register as an independent when I can actually vote... in 2024 ;_; I don't see myself voting anything other then left, as I agree with most of their points but you never know, get those weird people running sometimes
I do think political parties do have their uses, it's useful finding a group of people who have similar ideas to you
but when you don't really agree with any party it gets complicated :/
Click to expand...

That is a pretty long while, so I sincerely hope things have improved by that time for you. You're taking a good first step to improve the system by knowing it's best to keep your opinions open when registering. If only I realized the same thing back when I first registered too. But I made the same mistakes too.
I'm excited you don't have to.
 
Vragon2.0

Vragon2.0

Say it with me (Vray-gun)
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I would enjoy the candidates or hell the politicians in office give out the stuff in regards to their ideas and what they plan to do, before hand as you said earlier.

I get making mass appeal, but you as a politician should be judged a compared not just by your charisma, but also by the policies and things you push for. Holding politicians accountable for what they promise in their running or being real about these promises and asking for how they would bring these about I think would be much better than stuff now, though that's probably wishful thinking.

I'm in the US and while I will say I'm slightly more Right leaning, I address more of ideas and policy rather than which party or peeps come up with it cause we all can do things right and wrong. Plus I think working on party stereotypes is a good idea to help getting a conversation sit down.


Course, yeah I get your initial thing since Politics isn't as much right to left as it is four square areas that opposite ends of the 0 harbor four extreme areas. I think analyzing these things would be a good idea for the average voter and all when going to the ballot.

But, I think since politics is leaning more appealing to the masses rather than displaying the ways you'll do things, same goes for in office I won't get my hopes up and honestly can only really do so much in regards to me and how I analyze the candidates. Focusing on what they bring to the table rather than what they wear on just their person.
 
gimmepie

gimmepie

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The US' thing about registering to a specific party is something I don't get. We don't have that here... we also have a much less convoluted system (although one that's still too convoluted imo). Basically, we list the parties in order of preference and can vote for any party we choose. I'd rather not have a preferential system but that last part is great.

As for the actual parties, we actually do have a socialist party in Australia and I voted for them in our last election. Because they're such a small party though, my vote inevitably found its way to the Labour Party who are... well they're a shitload better than the most recent incarnations of the Liberal party (who are actually our conservatives, don't even ask) but they've always had stability issues and some economic problems. So while there is a party left enough for me, they don't have a hope in hell of winning and my vote for them ends up with the left-of-centre major party. In fact in order of preference I voted 1. Socialist 2. Greens 3. Australian Labour Party and I think our current government was like... eighth of twelve? Our country has too much in common with the US when it comes to opposing socialised agencies.

I completely agree that people need to vote more for the ideas expressed and actual policy over empty statements or party identity. It's really common here for people to just vote for who their parents always voted for or to latch on to just one repeated statement made by a major party instead of actually doing their research and exploring their options. Another irritatingly common mindset is that there's no point voting for anyone other than the major parties because they're going to win anyway... like if people stopped voting for them they'd still win or something.
 

MortalPhoenix

68
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  • Seen Nov 11, 2018
gimmepie said:
The US' thing about registering to a specific party is something I don't get. We don't have that here... we also have a much less convoluted system (although one that's still too convoluted imo). Basically, we list the parties in order of preference and can vote for any party we choose. I'd rather not have a preferential system but that last part is great.

As for the actual parties, we actually do have a socialist party in Australia and I voted for them in our last election. Because they're such a small party though, my vote inevitably found its way to the Labour Party who are... well they're a mukload better than the most recent incarnations of the Liberal party (who are actually our conservatives, don't even ask) but they've always had stability issues and some economic problems. So while there is a party left enough for me, they don't have a hope in hell of winning and my vote for them ends up with the left-of-centre major party. In fact in order of preference I voted 1. Socialist 2. Greens 3. Australian Labour Party and I think our current government was like... eighth of twelve? Our country has too much in common with the US when it comes to opposing socialised agencies.

I completely agree that people need to vote more for the ideas expressed and actual policy over empty statements or party identity. It's really common here for people to just vote for who their parents always voted for or to latch on to just one repeated statement made by a major party instead of actually doing their research and exploring their options. Another irritatingly common mindset is that there's no point voting for anyone other than the major parties because they're going to win anyway... like if people stopped voting for them they'd still win or something.
Click to expand...

To add onto this, I wish that people and politicians were more willing to compromise. It is all-or-nothing, and it helps no one. At least with compromise, you are one step closer to your goal than you were before.
 
Nah

Nah

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gimmepie said:
As for the actual parties, we actually do have a socialist party in Australia and I voted for them in our last election. Because they're such a small party though, my vote inevitably found its way to the Labour Party who are... well they're a shitload better than the most recent incarnations of the Liberal party (who are actually our conservatives, don't even ask) but they've always had stability issues and some economic problems. So while there is a party left enough for me, they don't have a hope in hell of winning and my vote for them ends up with the left-of-centre major party. In fact in order of preference I voted 1. Socialist 2. Greens 3. Australian Labour Party and I think our current government was like... eighth of twelve? Our country has too much in common with the US when it comes to opposing socialised agencies.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by your vote "ends up with another party"? I'm not sure I understand.
 
gimmepie

gimmepie

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Nah said:
What do you mean by your vote "ends up with another party"? I'm not sure I understand.
Click to expand...

The way our electoral system works is a preferential system that works through several rounds of counting. It's very complicated and convoluted but the general gist is that you label your votes by preference and that dictates each party's score. The party with the worst score is eliminated but rather than those votes simply not counting anymore, they get allocated to another party based on the preferences.

It's the only thing almost as stupid as an electoral college.
 
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