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Sex.

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In the modern world, it is common to see terrorism, murder, drug abuse, domestic violence, suicide, and all sorts of other unpleasant things discussed in everyday life. And yet, sex, a perfectly natural thing, does not show up nearly as often as any of those in public conversation.

I know you went to a weird school, but damnnnn

I don't understand why people say it is taboo... sex is everywhere. Throughout the media, advertising, there's a sex shop in the local shopping center right next to where people buy their groceries, porn is sold in gas stations, and conversation as well although I suppose that's more determined by who you talk to. If anything it's nearly impossible to get away from the idea of sex. We're discussing sex right now on a Pokemon forum.

Taboo in the sense some people don't like talking about it, yes, but that's on more of a personal level rather than a reflection of society as a whole. The vast majority of people I've known since about the age of 7 haven't been uncomfortable with it, and I'm pretty sure most people in general (or at least teenagers & young adults) aren't uncomfortable discussing it.
 
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If my 14 year old announces that they will have sex no matter what I say or do, I will simply try harder to stop them. They don't have to be allowed out of the house to see friends or sleep over at other people's houses, that's a privilege. I'd rather send them to a single-gender boarding school than tell them to go for it and have to raise their brat when the consequences of their, and my, irresponsible actions caught up with them.
I think you're forgetting what it's like to be a teenager. I just have to say, most of the time, kids - and especially teenagers, who are already at a rebellious phase in their life, will only want to do something much more if you push it so hard against them that they can't do something. I agree, and totally understand where you're coming from, but if that situation arises, I actually think it's much more appropriate to do what your husband's parents did. I mean, I don't know them in person, but they seem to be coming from a different place where you think they were. If your teenager is going to have sex and is hellbent on having it, for whatever reason, chances are they're going to have it. And they aren't looking for your opinion or permission on the manner. That's just the way it is. These days, most teens have sex before they turn of legal age of consent. Wouldn't you rather be of sound mind to know that your child had protected sex rather than did it without a condom, and wouldn't you feel better to know that if they're that concerned with having it, they'd come to you about it? Most of the people I know who lost their virginity before turning 18 never told their parents about it because of how forceful they were about sex in general. I don't think you want that, do you?
 

TRIFORCE89

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I know you went to a weird school, but damnnnn

I don't understand why people say it is taboo... sex is everywhere. Throughout the media, advertising, there's a sex shop in the local shopping center right next to where people buy their groceries, porn is sold in gas stations, and conversation as well although I suppose that's more determined by who you talk to. If anything it's nearly impossible to get away from the idea of sex. We're discussing sex right now on a Pokemon forum.

Taboo in the sense some people don't like talking about it, yes, but that's on more of a personal level rather than a reflection of society as a whole. The vast majority of people I've known since about the age of 7 haven't been uncomfortable with it, and I'm pretty sure most people in general (or at least teenagers & young adults) aren't uncomfortable discussing it.
One of the more logical posts in this thread I think. Also it reminded me that there's an adult fun store right next to restaurant I visit frequently XD

I agree, and totally understand where you're coming from, but if that situation arises, I actually think it's much more appropriate to do what your husband's parents did. I mean, I don't know them in person, but they seem to be coming from a different place where you think they were.
o_o I don't think so. I read her story there. If your kid is going to be having sex. Discourage it, sure, if you're so inclined. And more importantly encourage safe practices. That makes sense. But what her husband's parents did? Bought the kid condoms and a larger bed, and basically said "have at it. Knock yourselves out".

There's a difference between education and creating an environment that leads to the act. It's not your parents job to get you laid.
 
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o_o I don't think so. I read her story there. If your kid is going to be having sex. Discourage it, sure, if you're so inclined. And more importantly encourage safe practices. That makes sense. But what her husband's parents did? Bought the kid condoms and a larger bed, and basically said "have at it. Knock yourselves out".

There's a difference between education and creating an environment that leads to the act. It's not your parents job to get you laid.
Mm, yes, I just gave them the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps there were other reasons for getting a larger bed than them wanting them to have sex, like him outgrowing one. I'm mainly looking at the fact that they got him condoms, which I tried to make a point of in my previous post. It wasn't specified when they bought the condoms and the bed, so I'm left to speculate. It could have been months beforehand when they got him a new bed.
 
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At the root of it all, the act itself is not all that complex. I'm sorry to be crude here, but it's pretty much a case of "this goes in there. Repeat." In any event, it's not that difficult and it doesn't take a PhD to figure out how it works. I think I could have worked it out at a pretty young age.

There is so much more to "the act" than the act itself though. Aside from all the potential bad consequences (pregnancy, STIs) there are issues of comfort (without getting too detailed, there are some people whose bodies don't respond "in the expected ways" or at least as strongly) which can make it unpleasant or painful or even cause injury. Then there are issues that require more maturity than a mechanical knowledge provides. What if the person you're with starts becoming forceful? What if you start to feel uncomfortable in the middle of it? What if you make the mistake of thinking that only "no" means "no" and that a lack of response is a silent "yes"?

I'm not saying a 13 year old can't be mature enough, but they need to be taught a lot things beyond "what goes where."

I don't understand why people say it is taboo... sex is everywhere. Throughout the media, advertising, there's a sex shop in the local shopping center right next to where people buy their groceries, porn is sold in gas stations, and conversation as well although I suppose that's more determined by who you talk to. If anything it's nearly impossible to get away from the idea of sex. We're discussing sex right now on a Pokemon forum.

Taboo in the sense some people don't like talking about it, yes, but that's on more of a personal level rather than a reflection of society as a whole. The vast majority of people I've known since about the age of 7 haven't been uncomfortable with it, and I'm pretty sure most people in general (or at least teenagers & young adults) aren't uncomfortable discussing it.

I think some of the problem is that we're talking about certain aspects of it and not others. Yeah, you can see a lot of young boys boasting about their exploits, but how many people would feel comfortable talking about feeling like someone took advantage of them? How often do boys get together and tell each other to remember to get consent before having sex? To use protection every time? To ask partners to get tested?

These aren't rhetorical questions, btw. I'm just saying that as much as sex is an open topic there are still big gaps in what's talked about.
 

Kura

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I think some of the problem is that we're talking about certain aspects of it and not others. Yeah, you can see a lot of young boys boasting about their exploits, but how many people would feel comfortable talking about feeling like someone took advantage of them? How often do boys get together and tell each other to remember to get consent before having sex? To use protection every time? To ask partners to get tested?

These aren't rhetorical questions, btw. I'm just saying that as much as sex is an open topic there are still big gaps in what's talked about.

Not to mention if the party members actually ask "have you been tested?" or ask to see proof of the matter before the act.
Sex is a vulnerable position. There are lots of concerns to be brought up. I'm not saying this adds to the taboo-ness to it, but rather that it can get complicated rather than just being something instinctual.
But the points you bring up are very true, in my opinion.
 
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I think some of the problem is that we're talking about certain aspects of it and not others. Yeah, you can see a lot of young boys boasting about their exploits, but how many people would feel comfortable talking about feeling like someone took advantage of them? How often do boys get together and tell each other to remember to get consent before having sex? To use protection every time? To ask partners to get tested?
You sort of answered your own question a bit there. "a lot of young boys", the same reason young boys don't talk about many topics sincerely or seriously, they want to look cool. You don't get them saying "I think we've had enough to drink, lets stop" not because alcohol is taboo, because they're going to get laughed at.

A lot of girls on the other hand will often talk about things you listed.
 

twocows

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I'm going to take a dangerous position on this. Sure hope it doesn't screw me over when I'm trying to get a job in the future, but I think it needs to be said.

Age of consent should be abolished. Here's what I think we should do: replace it with some sort of "sex permit." Once you're 18 (or at whatever point most people are out of puberty by), you don't need one, but if you want to have sex before then, you need to undergo a psychological evaluation or something (not face-to-face so as to avoid bias on the part of the examiner). If you're deemed mature enough to handle it, then you're granted the permit. If you get caught doing it without a license, you and your partner are required to do community service.

Now to the Legal age of consent part.I'm glad that this exists. I understand that two people fall in love and blah blah blah, but like I stated above (and sorry, but that's my view from that comment.) Do we really want that going on? I sure don't.
Why not?

It's just like Penatrait said in a earlier post. Don't need to repeat it here on mine.
As far as I can tell, he said the law should exist because we need laws. That's circular reasoning, and if it's your only justification, you have no argument.

The much younger folks (no disrespect for those around that age range here) just can't comprehend the complexities of not only the act itself but what and how they feel afterwards.
It feels good. Simple as that. Anything else is just what you're bringing to the table. There are plenty of people who just have sex because it feels good. If you want to make it about love or companionship or commitment, good for you. If it's so complex, why don't you try backing that ridiculous claim (which I hear often, so don't feel bad) up with some reasoning as to why it's complex?

I also find it interesting that you're saying sex is complex and yet you demean the significance of love in the first three sentences of this paragraph.

And the same towards that person. They lose their innocence and more. We all do at some point, but sometimes, it should just be held off a bit longer.
If they're seeking sex on their own, they're past that point already.

Again, it's there for a reason. I don't know about you, but I'm cool with it. 100%. And should remain that way.
It's there because people think we need arbitrary lines for everything and don't bother looking for a better solution and also because parents don't want their precious little flowers... well, deflowered. The minimum drinking age is asinine for pretty much the same reason; there are problems with making it lower, but nobody's bothering to look for a better solution because our current one works "well enough."

There's a lot of bias from the legislators here because most of them are parents. Parents approach issues like this from the point of a parent, not from the point of the kid. This is yet another reason our legal system is flawed: we need people in there who can actually represent the issues of younger people and minimum age requirements as a requirement for election hampers that.
 

Kura

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It feels good. Simple as that. Anything else is just what you're bringing to the table. There are plenty of people who just have sex because it feels good. If you want to make it about love or companionship or commitment, good for you. If it's so complex, why don't you try backing that ridiculous claim (which I hear often, so don't feel bad) up with some reasoning as to why it's complex?

No offense, but I personally felt that this statement was pretty demeaning with the way you stated that the other opinion was "a ridiculous claim" instead of trying to consider first why it may be seen as complex.

I, for one, personally think sex is really complex. For example, there are women who don't get any pleasure with vaginal simulation.. so how could it really be "fun" for them? With sex there are things that some people find more appealing than others things.. kinks, personal boundaries, pleasure spots, confidence, and the list really goes on. Even within the vaginal or penis areas, there are glands and spots that some people respond to more than others. Some people can't be touched on their clitoris, for example, because they are so sensitive that it becomes painful. Even with men and the urethra, the same can happen. Now it's complex when you bring in the things Scarf says about the whole "silence means yes" but it's another thing if you're going in to touch someone thinking that it'll be good and they give out a yelp of pain or discomfort.

Now this whole scenario is NOT taking into account using the act of sex as a way to bond.. and already there is quite a lot of complexity. If you need me to further explain more ways where it could be complex, I will be happy to do so, but for now I hope that can at least make a point to you and to show and explain that it's not such a ridiculous claim, really.
 

twocows

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No offense, but I personally felt that this statement was pretty demeaning with the way you stated that the other opinion was "a ridiculous claim" instead of trying to consider first why it may be seen as complex.
He/she said it was complex without making any justification for that claim. It's not my job to try to figure out why his or her bogus claim isn't bogus. You make a point, you argue the point, you don't leave it for the opposing side to try to figure out.

I, for one, personally think sex is really complex. For example, there are women who don't get any pleasure with vaginal simulation.. so how could it really be "fun" for them? With sex there are things that some people find more appealing than others things.. kinks, personal boundaries, pleasure spots, confidence, and the list really goes on. Even within the vaginal or penis areas, there are glands and spots that some people respond to more than others. Some people can't be touched on their clitoris, for example, because they are so sensitive that it becomes painful. Even with men and the urethra, the same can happen. Now it's complex when you bring in the things Scarf says about the whole "silence means yes" but it's another thing if you're going in to touch someone thinking that it'll be good and they give out a yelp of pain or discomfort.

Now this whole scenario is NOT taking into account using the act of sex as a way to bond.. and already there is quite a lot of complexity. If you need me to further explain more ways where it could be complex, I will be happy to do so, but for now I hope that can at least make a point to you and to show and explain that it's not such a ridiculous claim, really.
That's all stuff you brought to the table, it's not inherent in the act, which was my point. There's no reason you need a high level of intellect to do something that feels good to start with. And if it doesn't, they probably wouldn't be doing it anyway unless they had other reasons (such as the ones you gave). Remember, this is in the context of age of consent.
 

Lozz

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It has been interesting to read all these differing perspectives, obviously from different people, and completely different stages of their life. I agree with the idea that sex is complex. In my experience, it makes life a lot more complicated then not having sex... not just because of the act itself, but because a lot of the time, of the ramifications that follow. I'm not just talking about STDs or pregnancy. I'm talking about responses from your peers. Whether it be judgement, jealously or just generally juvenile reactions.

I know if I have children, I am going to try my hardest to ensure that they don't have sex until they are at a socially acceptable age, and also that they are fully comfortable and able to deal with the entire concept. I miss the innocence of my youth, the uncomplicated, simple viewpoints. If I have children, I want that innocence prolonged as long as possible, because it only exists once (senile old age excluded). I believe sex is an important factor in creating complications, it requires a situation of innocence confronting the adult world. As a parent, I can only assume I would want to shelter my child as long as possible- it would be an instinctual response.
 

Kura

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He/she said it was complex without making any justification for that claim. It's not my job to try to figure out why his or her bogus claim isn't bogus. You make a point, you argue the point, you don't leave it for the opposing side to try to figure out.


That's all stuff you brought to the table, it's not inherent in the act, which was my point. There's no reason you need a high level of intellect to do something that feels good to start with. And if it doesn't, they probably wouldn't be doing it anyway unless they had other reasons (such as the ones you gave). Remember, this is in the context of age of consent.

I don't understand how you think sex ISN'T complex. Please explain that to me.

I don't know if you're referring to the motion of sex? If so.. even that is still very complex. I'm not just talking about angles of penetration. Even people get different feelings with different partners just because their body may respond more to a "healthy girl/boy" rather than an unhealthy one, because of pheromones released in the air and the way the body will naturally react to that.
And the fact that it would take more than one time with a person to truly see if sex with them is a good feeling, because by that time you are experienced with their body and you are willing to open up more.

Other than that, I personally thought that it was a given that sex is a very complex thing in general. I didn' think it was a point to argue because it was so widely accepted. To call something, by standard definition in my eyes, bogus, is quite confusing to me.
Care to explain? I'm just curious as to how you see it, if you don't mind me asking.
 
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The complexity of sex is circumstantial. Coming from a person who has sex frequently, but in a strong and close relationship; I do not find sex to be a complex entity. But if I were to have sex with a stranger there would be a lot more things I would need to consider. However I believe that so long as you're using protection, it eliminates a lot of factors that could potentially create a more difficult situation in regards to how straight forward the act will be.
 

Kura

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The complexity of sex is circumstantial. Coming from a person who has sex frequently, but in a strong and close relationship; I do not find sex to be a complex entity. But if I were to have sex with a stranger there would be a lot more things I would need to consider. However I believe that so long as you're using protection, it eliminates a lot of factors that could potentially create a more difficult situation in regards to how straight forward the act will be.

I can understand how sex would be considerably less complex with a close and frequent partner, but I still think it's complex- especially when breaching subjects that would be more to do with unexplored kinks, or wanting to try something new. Not to mention the fact that the addition of sex in an already close relationship does give that relationship a whole new level of meaning. Sex becomes a way to soothe and de-stress for some, but for others may be a way to avoid a topic. You may know then that a "Silent yes" really is just that and not secretly a "no but I don't want to disappoint" when you're at that point, and you wont have to focus on the "maybe they don't like it that way" anymore. But if you talk about it and are on common ground, then yes, the sex is considerably less complex, yet it is only that way because you have already gone through the complex bits of it, such as teaching your partner what you like, and now understand each other mutually during the act.
 

twocows

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I don't understand how you think sex ISN'T complex. Please explain that to me.

I don't know if you're referring to the motion of sex? If so.. even that is still very complex. I'm not just talking about angles of penetration. Even people get different feelings with different partners just because their body may respond more to a "healthy girl/boy" rather than an unhealthy one, because of pheromones released in the air and the way the body will naturally react to that.
And the fact that it would take more than one time with a person to truly see if sex with them is a good feeling, because by that time you are experienced with their body and you are willing to open up more.

Other than that, I personally thought that it was a given that sex is a very complex thing in general. I didn' think it was a point to argue because it was so widely accepted. To call something, by standard definition in my eyes, bogus, is quite confusing to me.
Care to explain? I'm just curious as to how you see it, if you don't mind me asking.
I'm not talking about the motion and humans do not produce pheromones. The point people are making is that it is too emotionally or intellectually complex for a young teenager to understand. And it's not, at least not necessarily. It can mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but to plenty of us, it's just something that tends to feel good.

The point I'm making is that there's no reason a teen shouldn't be able to enter into a consensual sexual relationship with someone older than them. They're not "too immature to understand it;" they get it perfectly well.

If it's so complex that younger folk can't handle it, I think you should explain why they can't handle it.
 

-ty-

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Adding to the discussion of sex being complex or not, I would say it has more impact on our lives than we realize. For other species, sex is a means for reproduction. For humans, it affects relationships whether it be good, bad, or neither (among more than just two people), if a child is conceived there are numerous complicating issues, it can affect our mood and anxiety levels, there are issues of consent and legalities, there are body image and performance issues and insecurities, and the list goes on and on. We are not conscientious of the many complexities of sex. Almost all of the simple things of life impact us more than we know.
 

Shining Raichu

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I think something that needs to be considered as well is that it's none of our business. I personally believe that it's not that complex a situation and that we underestimate how much younger people can understand and handle, but you know what? There's a chance I'm wrong. But in the end what I or anybody else thinks shouldn't matter. Who are we to say what other people can handle? Who are we to make laws that tell other people what they can and cannot do based on what we believe? This is pretty much society's number one problem.

I'm sure there are specific cases where younger people are unable to handle these supposed complexities that sex represents. But that's not true of everybody, so who are we to create a law on behalf of them all? If young people are incapable of dealing with sex, then the absence of a law doesn't mean they are forced to have sex. If there's ever a situation where there's a choice between implementing a restrictive law and not implementing a restrictive law, I believe we should always err on the side of not. Because it's quite simply none of our business.
 

Kura

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I'm not talking about the motion and humans do not produce pheromones. The point people are making is that it is too emotionally or intellectually complex for a young teenager to understand. And it's not, at least not necessarily. It can mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but to plenty of us, it's just something that tends to feel good.

The point I'm making is that there's no reason a teen shouldn't be able to enter into a consensual sexual relationship with someone older than them. They're not "too immature to understand it;" they get it perfectly well.

If it's so complex that younger folk can't handle it, I think you should explain why they can't handle it.

I agree with you on the fact that younger teenagers can handle sex, yes. I don't think of young people as being lesser than older folks.. but I think they are also less unable to handle consequences (broken condom, breakup, etc) than of an older, more mature person. I do wish that younger teens were allowed to have the birth control pill, but oftentimes that's not the case because their bodies are still growing and the pill may affect growth, so they wouldn't have to worry as much over one consequence.. because accidental pregnancies are a difficult thing to handle no matter how old you are.

But I don't know about you, but ten or 8 years ago when I was 12 or 14.. I really wouldn't want myself having sex back then because I really don't know about it in the way I do now. Maybe sex becomes more complex as you get older? I don't know. I was chatting with a friend who's 30 about it just to get his opinion. He's non religious and believes that sex is even more complex than what I think it is. It's interesting to get that viewpoint. Maybe it really does get more complex the more you experience in the world.


Personally, I don't condone younger people having sex because many may think they're mature when most are not.. and they only come to realize that a couple years later, but at the same time I wouldn't stop them from doing it if it's consensual. I just hope in the future there is more support for them if they do find it (or its consequences) to be too complex.. and oftentimes there isn't good counseling for them because they are automatically frowned down upon.. and they really really shouldn't be. Kids need better sex education. Young teens need more freedom. If they are going to have sex they should be able to buy condoms without worrying of judgement.


You say it's primarily to feel good.. and that's where I want to raise a bit of an objection. It's easy for a boy to go through the motions and feel good, but it's not necessarily the same for the girl unless she's 100% willing and ready. Oftentimes if a 11-14 girl isn't, and will have at least some doubts, there is a strong possibility that sex with hurt for her. If she's not aroused enough, the vagina wont elongate enough, and the guy will hit her cervix. That's painful. If she's a virgin, hymen breakage is also painful. Where's the "feel good" in that? For the guy it's fun and games and it'll feel good, but for a girl it might not be so simple unless she's ACTUALLY truly ready for it. I am not sure you are taking everything into account.. but sure young teenages CAN understand the complexities of sex, yes. But can they always handle the implications..? I don't necessarily think so. But either way, having a law is a bit silly. The government has no place in the bedroom of its citizens.

You say it's not that complex that they can't handle it.. but you're not saying anything else to "back yourself up" about why you think that's true. The basic "to feel good" is just the icing on a very large cake, to me. You told ME to explain WHY they can't handle it, and I did twice. Now I ask you WHY you think that they can? You're just throwing claims at me. Shining Raichu did put it nicely himself, and he was making the same point that you are. However, I'm curious as to why you think this is the case. (Laws aside)

(I hope I'm not sounding rude with this last sentence.. but you asked me why and I delivered.. so I guess it's fair to ask YOU why, too.) :33
 
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2Cool4Mewtwo

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I think something that needs to be considered as well is that it's none of our business. I personally believe that it's not that complex a situation and that we underestimate how much younger people can understand and handle, but you know what? There's a chance I'm wrong. But in the end what I or anybody else thinks shouldn't matter. Who are we to say what other people can handle? Who are we to make laws that tell other people what they can and cannot do based on what we believe? This is pretty much society's number one problem.

I'm sure there are specific cases where younger people are unable to handle these supposed complexities that sex represents. But that's not true of everybody, so who are we to create a law on behalf of them all? If young people are incapable of dealing with sex, then the absence of a law doesn't mean they are forced to have sex. If there's ever a situation where there's a choice between implementing a restrictive law and not implementing a restrictive law, I believe we should always err on the side of not. Because it's quite simply none of our business.

I guess teenage pregnancy (just one example of consequences of having sex in earlier ages) is not a complex situation, after all.

From my personal experience, I'd definitely say that a normal 13-14 year old teenager can't take sex seriously. When I was in sex ed portion of health class, when the teacher showed us a picture of... *youknow*, everybody in the class giggled, and teacher had to warn us multiple times to get us to stop.
 
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