Healthy Eating in Modern Society

Her said:

Let's not have such a high horse, people. Laziness can often be a factor, but be realistic: people may have the time to prepare and cook a meal and so forth, but after a full day of work or inbetween a second job, they may not have the mental energy to do so. Accessibility is the key factor when it comes to managing one's diet and quick, easy, filling food is always more readily available than fresh produce. Like... there's really no reason to be without compassion for someone's day to day life experience to push good health tips they already know.

Which brings up the main issue re: accessibility. Fresh produce and materials for healthy and diverse meals are expensive. Maybe not so much when catering solely for yourself, but as you get older and have more people to think about other people? Absolutely. When you have multiple people to look after, keeping them satisfied and not hungry can often take precedence to the Super Healthy fresh meals we wish we could have readily available all the time. We all want (or should) want to be healthy, but the main limitation when it comes to this is not some weird sense of avoiding responsibility or avoiding taking charge of their situation, but having their financial situation define things for them before the food is even on the table. Personal responsibility gives way to actual reality very often when it comes to food and it bugs the shit out of me when people ignore that.

Laziness is a thing, but using it as a buzzword in discussions like these is very cringe-inducing. Your own experiences does not mean another person will be able to achieve the same things.

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Where do you shop that fresh ingredients are expensive?

Uh... anywhere in New Zealand? This is not a cheap country in any facet.
My point still stands that people's mileage may vary determining on where they live and that health advice has to factor in that realty. Accessibility is a far bigger contributor to obesity than plain laziness.

Her said:

Uh... anywhere in New Zealand? This is not a cheap country in any facet.
My point still stands that people's mileage may vary determining on where they live and that health advice has to factor in that realty. Accessibility is a far bigger contributor to obesity than plain laziness.

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If you replace accessibility with convenience, then I am inclined to agree.

The people who are choosing to drive to McDonalds and ordering all their food there are the people we are discussing. In most areas of the western world, supermarkets are located in every other town. It's more convenient for people to drive and have food ready, but both are just as accessible. Some supermarkets even deliver these days.

Kanzler said:

There are a lot of factors in heart disease, but sodium is a big one and high intake can make hypertension and other diseases worse. I don't expect most people in our population to eat and live like Japanese or South Koreans so I still think it's important for people to pay attention to the amount of sodium they are taking in. Japanese and South Koreans tend to lead more physically active lives than in North America, as well as having less obesity which would reduce their risk of heart disease through those factors, but it doesn't matter if you're Japanese or South Korean or whatever culture, eating more sodium will increase your risk for blood pressure. Pointing out that sodium is less important in the Japanese or South Korean experience does not necessarily mean that the Japanese or South Korean experience applies to you.

Honestly, in this part of the world, it's very difficult to eat too little sodium without being overzealous about your diet, and by and large, it's not the overzealous folks we're worried about when it comes to diet and health. People over here get most of their sodium through processed foods, and those tend to come with poorer nutritional content as well as being higher in unhealthy fats and sugars. People with low blood pressures might stand to benefit from eating a bit more salt, but broadly speaking, most people eat too much salt from processed foods.

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As far as I can tell there aren't really any studies that say salt will negatively affect your blood pressure / heart. (Aside from excessive amounts, and excessive anything is bad for you.) I know that the medical associates and such all tell you to reduce salt, but from what I can tell they don't have all that much reason to be telling people that.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying about Korean/Japanese people. I was just saying that their diets are much higher on average in salt than the average American and they don't show the same levels of unhealthiness in those areas.

I'm not saying you should have all the salt you want, but that low sodium diets and trying to lower your salt intake doesn't seem to have much backing it up beyond that it's what people have been told to do for decades.

au bon said:

If you replace accessibility with convenience, then I am inclined to agree.

The people who are choosing to drive to McDonalds and ordering all their food there are the people we are discussing. In most areas of the western world, supermarkets are located in every other town. It's more convenient for people to drive and have food ready, but both are just as accessible. Some supermarkets even deliver these days.

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Food deserts in developed countries are a thing though.



Obviously most people live close enough to a grocery, but it's not a given that that grocery will have a lot of good fresh food or that it will be affordable.

As a different example, friends of mine, who have two kids and who both work, have a lot of trouble getting to the store regularly and/or having time to prepare all their meals. They are always at work, dropping off or picking up their kids, or doing all those parting things, so they rely on pre-made foods a good chunk of the time to make sure that their kids can eat on time.

Esper said:

As far as I can tell there aren't really any studies that say salt will negatively affect your blood pressure / heart. (Aside from excessive amounts, and excessive anything is bad for you.) I know that the medical associates and such all tell you to reduce salt, but from what I can tell they don't have all that much reason to be telling people that.

I'm not saying you should have all the salt you want, but that low sodium diets and trying to lower your salt intake doesn't seem to have much backing it up beyond that it's what people have been told to do for decades.[

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Obviously excessive anything is bad for you. Obviously salt is necessary for human life. Where does that leave us in the current context that the average person intakes over 4 grams of sodium a day? Here is a review article discussing some of the landmark studies that have developed into the consensus that salt reduction improves the risk of major diseases: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4105387/

Excessively low sodium is detrimental, but dietary guidelines are not advising you to eat excessively low sodium.

Esper said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying about Korean/Japanese people. I was just saying that their diets are much higher on average in salt than the average American and they don't show the same levels of unhealthiness in those areas.

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They also walk more and they are less on average less obese. The East Asian population might possess genes that make them less susceptible to heart disease. Physical activity, healthy body weight, and genetics are all factors that are involved in heart health. You can't point to Asians' better cardiovascular health and say that eating a lot of sodium is okay when other factors in their life (some of which you potentially cannot even control) might be responsible for their prevalence of heart disease being lower than that of North Americans. Stated another way, if the average Japanese person ate the same amount of sodium as the average North American person, their risk of cardiovascular disease would likely improve.

Basically you can't infer that sodium isn't a significant contributor to cardiovascular disease from the fact that Japanese and Korean populations eat more salt and do better than North Americans when it comes to cardiovascular disease. There have been studies done within those populations that demonstrate that excessive sodium intake (which is increasingly becoming the norm, if it isn't already) increase the risk of heart disease.

au bon said:

If you replace accessibility with convenience, then I am inclined to agree.

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I really envy people who don't find it difficult to buy the healthy fresh ingredients they want all the time. We do okay in my house admittedly, but we're very good at budgeting. Not everyone has that ability and unfortunately healthy/fresh food is extremely expensive here at the moment.

Personally, I would love to see government regulation that could make healthy eating more affordable, but we live in a capitalist society where prices have to keep going up to counteract lower crop yields (thank you climate change) otherwise producers can't survive.

I 100% agree that laziness is a factor, more so than Adrianna might seem to agree with tbh, but there's definitely other factors than simple convenience or lifestyle choices to consider If we want people to eat healthier, we need to make it affordable and convenient to do so.

Our palettes have been cultivated over years of consuming addicting foods.

If we really wanted to cut down time and costs we would do away with cooking all together. Moreover, raw diets promote greater nutrition through allowing more active enzymes in food to support body functions.

We are not "wired" to crave foods sold in stores; these cravings are developed by commercialized foods and promote overeating (higher overall consumption and sales). This does not promote the economy, as people would have more disposable income to eat healthy food or buy other products if we simply ate raw foods.

To anyone that suggests it is "unrealistic", I'm sorry, food addiction is not healthy, and it is normalized and wastes healthcare resources to address cardiovascular disease, obesity, compromised immune health, organ failure, cancer, etc.

Last week I actually tried pumpkin pie for a celebration, I used to love it! IT was god-awfully sweet, like pouring a cup of sugar in your coffee over-sweetened. No thanks I will stick with fruit.

The devotion of resources to cooking, restaurants, cooking appliances, kitchen space, energy costs, oils, etc. is a massive waste of resources. Let's grow more food and reduce costs. Nutrition is not art or recreational activity and our society would benefit from moving away from foodie culture toward nutritional culture. Moreover, you will definitely waste less time exercising to maintain body weight; you honestly don't have to do any more than eat raw foods (veggies, fruits, nuts, some oils, sprouted grains) and walk a little bit during the day.

I'm not a raw vegan enthusiast, I have lost enthusiasm for food and placed that enthusiasm, time, energy, thought to other things. Also, I do not have acne/folliculitis, allergies, low-energy, insomnia (for caffeine to combat low-energy), or depression. Moreover, I do not spend money on any drink other than water.

My cost for food, rent, utilities, drinks (it's called just drink water) has shaved hundreds of dollars per year. My current apartment is spacious but the down-side is that the kitchen is basically non-existent. It's perfect. I do not waste money on appliances. Moreover, I do not waste money of detergent, I use baking soda; the detergent was also a MAJOR contributor to my dermatitis/folliculititis along with dairy/gluten. The cost of face washes, moisturizers, accutane, and antibiotics, which only made my dermatitis/folliculititis worse for less acne is another plus to addressing the issue by cutting out dairy/gluten/cooked foods.

Long rambling rant aside, it's insane to me now that I've addressed food in my life, that anyone can claim fresh food is more expensive. Proper nutrition has allowed me to cure ailments and be have more disposable income and time.

gimmepie said:

I really envy people who don't find it difficult to buy the healthy fresh ingredients they want all the time. We do okay in my house admittedly, but we're very good at budgeting. Not everyone has that ability and unfortunately healthy/fresh food is extremely expensive here at the moment.

Personally, I would love to see government regulation that could make healthy eating more affordable, but we live in a capitalist society where prices have to keep going up to counteract lower crop yields (thank you climate change) otherwise producers can't survive.

I 100% agree that laziness is a factor, more so than Adrianna might seem to agree with tbh, but there's definitely other factors than simple convenience or lifestyle choices to consider If we want people to eat healthier, we need to make it affordable and convenient to do so.

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I utilize farmer's markets mostly.

i grew up in a family that was very, very picky about what we ate. my mom was one of those people that believed high fructose corn syrup and certain food dyes caused cancer or whatever. that eating things made with gmos or non organic foods is bad. my mom was so picky about what not to eat, we barely had any food in the fridge or pantry, causing me to lose weight. moreover, she pushed the fear of becoming overweight on me, and now when i gain a pound, i have an urge to starve myself because i'm afraid of getting fat. i'm almost twenty pounds underweight now.

having grown up in such an environment, i turned into my mom and was really against people eating fast food and non organic ingredients. i hated fat people. i thought they were all lazy and didn't care about themselves or their eating habits. my family is pretty well off. we had enough money to afford organic groceries and all that. i was very privileged. but then, i got into a relationship with someone who was overweight and also poor. we live together now, and i've seen the other side.

i'm no longer incredibly fatphobic and i now understand the weight epidemic and the problem with the food industry. food is ****ing expensive. stupidly expensive. and this whole thing with eating healthier and all that... is bull****. it really is, i'm sorry. there is a reason all those ad campaigns about it haven't worked. food that is good for you is not accessible to the minimum wage/working class individuals. you also have to count in food deserts. people make so many jokes about alabama and how it's full of fat conservative pricks or whatever. take a good look at the food desert chart that esper posted. there are a lot of food deserts in alabama, and actually the majority of people that are overweight are also poor. people find this hard to believe, but it's not something impossible or difficult to understand. you can get a full course meal at a fast food restaurant like mcdonalds for cheap, especially with all these deals that have been coming out recently, meanwhile buying something considered healthy at a supermarket is more expensive AND more labor intensive and also unavailable if you live in a food desert. guess what people go for?

i could honestly go on about this. it's just ridiculous. overweight individuals, ad campaigns, laziness and whatever else you want to blame it on is NOT the problem. it's the ****ing industry and american capitalism itself. you want people to eat healthier? how about you harass the ****ing government instead of overweight people.

Most food items can be included in moderation in a healthy menu, and this includes sweet treats. Many treats are available in reduced-fat or fat-free versions, like reduced-fat or fat-free ice cream, peanut butter or snack foods. These do offer a healthier alternative to their full-fat counterparts; however, it's again important to remain cognizant of portion size. Fat-free does not mean calorie-free, and many reduced-fat foods may contain additional calories from another substance to improve their flavor. Check food labels to determine the size of one portion.