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Old March 4th, 2018 (4:19 AM).
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Good luck to those who are rebuilding PC as I sincerely hope that one day this forum can be as fun as it was for all of my adult life. When PC started crumbling it really took a toll on me because all of the memories I made here suddenly felt tarnished. I couldn't even open PC without feeling disgust. With Steve out of the picture PC definitely has room to move forward.
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Old March 4th, 2018 (4:34 AM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Salzorrah.
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I'm sorry for being overly blunt, but I feel this is too naive for me to process. I mean I get that this was a hard time for everyone to go through, especially for the people who loved this forum because it had a really nice community, including me.

That said, while I respect the statement that you've released to us, and have taken measures (like Steve resigning and passing the ownership), I feel like this is not enough for wanting me to come back.

Let me start with Erica getting admin off the bat. At first, I was very skeptical about it. To me, it felt like a power grab, and with the statement that she co-owns the server felt like a slap in the back. However, I did appreciate Erica clarifying her position, with it being temporary. Along with other people mentioning that she can be trusted is something that I can also trust as well.

As for Jake, I've already apologized to you, for the things that I have may done (any petty squabbles that I had with you over the past few days), however, if I may, I don't think that you should be in the position of power. I may not have been affected as much as the other staff that left, you did a number to them, and you are one of the two people that have been part of the allegations against PC in the first place. I'd rather have Rika, Janna, and Cowrie to co-own the forum, with Erica to help, but I don't think that I trust you with leading this forum, atleast not now anyways, while the issue is still hot.

There is also another issue. There's a certain user (you know who, but for the sake of the people who don't, I won't name them, someone else can because I don't give a psyduck) that was banned after multiple accounts of users citing harassment towards them, was then unbanned after a few moments. They still run around in this forum, unscathed, and to me, I'm very shocked that the ban was reversed in the first place. I protest that they'd be permabanned.

Finally, I didn't like how majority of the people who replied so far were willing to forgive and forget everything just to save this forum. Look, I loved PC to death. I can't stand not visit this forum every chance I get, and it has been a part of my life for 8 years, but this controversy felt like a stab in the heart. It's not easy forgiving the mistakes that have been done. As someone told me, PC isn't defined by its owner, but by its community, and I love the people who stood up and walked away, because those people know what is morally right. I don't blame the young people who don't know what the hell happened. It's not their fault, and I understand that. What I can't stomach is the people who know what their doing, and still praise PC like nothing happened.

Tl;dr: I don't think I would return to PC that soon, or ever, until these conditions are met:

Jake steps down as admin, and relinquishes ownership to Rika, Janna, and Cowrie (Erica can stay as admin, as long as it is deemed necessary for her to be there)

Certain user gets banned like they are rightfully deserved to be

Transparency between the staff and users. That includes between hstaff and lower staff. None of this top secret bull.

Until then.
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Old March 4th, 2018 (4:51 AM).
Terabyte Terabyte is offline
     
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    This is the news that has needed to come since last Wednesday, to be honest. I am glad to hear that new leadership, and also new ownership of the forums has come about as well. Jake, I wish you, Erica, Rika, Janna, and Sylph the best and I know you guys can do your best to get PC rebuilt. All I ask of you guys is for more transparency to not only the staff, but to the members as well.

    Transparency has always been an issue when it comes to discussions here. I'm not saying you guys should reveal who the next mod candidates are and whatnot while deliberation is underway, but when it came to stuff like reorganization of the forums and how PC is arranged, it was often done behind closed doors with no input from lower staff, let alone members.

    Either way, should I ever decide to return to PC on a fuller capacity, I better look forward to seeing a thriving community and not just one that has a bad rap because of an admin who never really did anything other than pay the bills to keep the site up and running. Like many, I too have many memories here, and unlike others, I chose not to erase them.

    Well, until next time.
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    Old March 4th, 2018 (5:05 AM).
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    Venia Silente Venia Silente is offline
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    I have to say I am tremendously ashamed for the handling of this situation, something that I have gone over in the Discord servers but I think merits mentioning again because no one seems to have called out the adequate people for this:

    All this is because of nowadays' Tumblr-tier behaviour of "virtue signaling" and the trend of abandoning, backstabbing or publicly shaming people simply because they have a past. Worse, a past that is old, and they paid for, are recorded for, and have never denied. And how does the community respond? Well, the new Discord was suspiciously set up in just about 30 minutes. I wish I saw this efficiency in the State's public-facing support and welfare systems. Honestly, the whole situation -including taking into account the first pastebin- currently reads as if the mods feared that bad information was to come to the public about them, perhaps regarding the donations, and decided to hang out Rukario to dry as a distraction. They were, after all, the first ones to jump ship.

    It is very telling that when I spoke to one person in the new Discord who claimed to be the "originator" of the leak, if that even makes sense (criminal records are public information), their stance on the matter could succinctly be resumed as a mostly carefree "...oops?".

    A lot could be said about the nature of Rukario's "original sin" but I think I will leave that one to Debates. All that I'll say is that it was known and paid for.

    So there, mods (and Rukario) - clean up your act. We have all done bad in the past. It's not worth punishing people for repeatedly, be it by inaction or by peer pressure, and helping break a community out of it.



    Now, with all that said, at a personal level I am a bit conflicted on what to do about this situation.

    I do intend to stay on PokéCommunity in the short term, which is the stablest community I have seen in a good while. It is still the main release channel for most of my new publications and honestly, even with its Discord side platform is the comfiest forum to navigate and catch up to. Maybe it's the themes (let Rt 167+ not be lost), maybe it's the organization, maybe I've just grown used to it, who knows. However, I do so knowing that it was the mods here who enabled -and some of them even led- this sabotage so I think they should responsibly apologize, step aside and let other people take the reins.

    As for the new site and Discord, while I understand why it would be / were made, I feel like I don't really want to associate with those people in the short term. They read in my mind as little more than traitors who abandoned ship at the first chance given, re-crucifying someone without bothering to wait for an explanation and hanging on a half-excuse. I don't really want to be part of a "community" that has the fresh, public record of turning on its own people like that. Honestly people, who would want to be? I'll probs be keeping an eye n them and see how the userbase changes over time in consideration to join later, but that's it.

    I guess if both the new and old Pokécommunity improve there's no reason to not be in both of them in the long term. But for the time being I'm going to be watching over from a lookout in the distance, probably Serebii, except for trying to keep myself in the mood to become active again in FF&W.


    I guess that's all I have for the moment. There's so much more to come, but I want to see changes and responsibility first. Bring in new administration and bring in a project to keep the community going.
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    Old March 4th, 2018 (5:15 AM).
    Lucas M. Manion Lucas M. Manion is offline
       
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by janejane6178 View Post
      What happened that made the Pokecommunity be nearly closed?
      Someone on the Community, potentially a staff member who eventually resigned, found out about Rukario's past.
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      Old March 4th, 2018 (5:24 AM).
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      I don't know what to do and I hate that we all can't be together. I hate that we can't go back a week. I hate that I have friends on both sides. I hate that even though I don't have to choose... there will be pressure to choose. Even though both sides has never hurt anyone... like... I've managed being staff on Smogon and on PC without any conflicts for the last 9 months... But this time? This situation? It's different. I feel like I'm pulled in so many directions and I want to stay loyal to those I love yet embrace a part of me that has meant so much.

      And yet a choice must be made - it may not be a problem now but if I were to choose both sides either way there would be an opinion from each side on where my attention should lie. And I can't turn my back on my friends.

      I know I want to do SMT - but without the rest of the crew here it would be wrong of me to do it here. I'm more happy to do it there (on the other side) but I still have affections for PC and old gens that I can't really close up.

      And so... I choose Smogon! Jk. But really this bloody sucks.
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      Old March 4th, 2018 (5:28 AM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by bobandbill.
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Venia Silente View Post
      As for the new site and Discord, while I understand why it would be / were made, I feel like I don't really want to associate with those people in the short term. They read in my mind as little more than traitors who abandoned ship at the first chance given, re-crucifying someone without bothering to wait for an explanation and hanging on a half-excuse. I don't really want to be part of a "community" that has the fresh, public record of turning on its own people like that. Honestly people, who would want to be? I'll probs be keeping an eye n them and see how the userbase changes over time in consideration to join later, but that's it.
      I'll plead that this is not at all the case, and the motivation of people to try and make a new site is not to be a traitor but try and remake a community which was (still is) under ownership by someone on the register. There were also other issues prior to this, such as nobody - including admins - understanding the financial situation of PC, despite numerous requests, a toxic approach to ad implementation (skimlinks and popups if you're a guest!), and an inability to develop key things such as building on the rom hacking community (which was staggering given it's PC's claim to fame... and yet steve did not want it). These issues have contributed to the various different stories seen such as 'oh so-and-so was using the money for their own profit', because when nothing is explained, you allow such conspiracies to manifest as explanations as to why.

      All these reasons were additional motivation to making a new site when it appeared that there would be no chance of the site being relinquished. There were nigh a week long discussions by hq prior to try and figure out, and discussions were had with steve; they just did not go anywhere fruitful then. People simply rathered try and rebuild the community that was PC than to give it up.

      Some people also cannot realistically risk their jobs or even careers, especially when it involves children, for being on a pokemon site owned by someone on the sex offender register. Another view is that knowingly staying at a place where kids would be in danger from that fact alone, even besides all the details in the conviction, etc., is morally unacceptable for many people.

      What does not help is to label a large group of people traitors or the like. I truly feel that bar maybe the odd bad egg here and there, plus trolls from other sites, people simply want to see recovery and/or a viable alternative. See the post above for a clear example of that.
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      Old March 4th, 2018 (5:53 AM).
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        I'm not 100% sure what's going on, but since I only joined this community like 2 days ago I really don't want to see years worth of effort go down the drain so hopefully this trouble can all pass!
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        Old March 4th, 2018 (6:03 AM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by ShockHERO+.
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          I say that, well even though im not an avid poster in the forums, or a fan game maker, or even a person who makes hacks very well that this might be the great opportunity to improve and make PC great, maybe even something better. Who knows? I'm just a dude who loves Pokemon. Arent most of us here? Also im neutral party, so....
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          Old March 4th, 2018 (6:15 AM).
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          Hiatus Hiatus is offline
           
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          I'm looking forward to see the forum standing again.
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          Old March 4th, 2018 (6:15 AM).
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          Nah Nah is offline
           
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Venia Silente View Post
          All this is because of nowadays' Tumblr-tier behaviour of "virtue signaling" and the trend of abandoning, backstabbing or publicly shaming people simply because they have a past. Worse, a past that is old, and they paid for, are recorded for, and have never denied. And how does the community respond? Well, the new Discord was suspiciously set up in just about 30 minutes. I wish I saw this efficiency in the State's public-facing support and welfare systems. Honestly, the whole situation -including taking into account the first pastebin- currently reads as if the mods feared that bad information was to come to the public about them, perhaps regarding the donations, and decided to hang out Rukario to dry as a distraction. They were, after all, the first ones to jump ship.

          .....

          However, I do so knowing that it was the mods here who enabled -and some of them even led- this sabotage so I think they should responsibly apologize, step aside and let other people take the reins.

          ......

          As for the new site and Discord, while I understand why it would be / were made, I feel like I don't really want to associate with those people in the short term. They read in my mind as little more than traitors who abandoned ship at the first chance given, re-crucifying someone without bothering to wait for an explanation and hanging on a half-excuse. I don't really want to be part of a "community" that has the fresh, public record of turning on its own people like that. Honestly people, who would want to be? I'll probs be keeping an eye n them and see how the userbase changes over time in consideration to join later, but that's it.
          I do not know what is contained in this pastebin you've mentioned, but almost everybody on staff who chose to leave did so either because they did not want to take the risk of a link between them and someone who was registered as a sex offender being found out and possibly damaging their irl futures, or because they strongly felt it was their moral obligation to do so, or both. It was not done out of fear that people would think that the information was about them or that they knew and were hiding it all along or something. Steve was not used as some sort of scapegoat or distraction.

          They were "the first to jump ship" because staff was the first to learn about all this. People were submitting their resignations within hours of the information being presented to us. The Escape Rope server appeared to go up so quickly once Steve's past was leaked and started to become public knowledge because the staffers who were leaving decided very early on that a new area for people who wanted to leave PC needed to be made (we all knew that somebody was going to leak the information)--they all believed that PC was going to be dead within a week, especially given that Steve did not agree to stepping down at first. It's probably not hard to quick make a new Discord server, so all they had to do after making it was wait for the chaos to begin to unfold, there was a gap in time between when we were broke the news and when the rest of the memberbase started to learn of it.

          I would've very much preferred it if most of the people who left instead decided to, like me, stay and try and see if we could fix the problem or problems. But they probably felt that there was no way in hell that PC could live through this. This all could've been handled better too. The news about Steve should've been officially announced not long after it was told to staff (so like on Wednesday morning basically) so there could be a chance for far less chaos than there was, and more work towards the necessary steps required to have PC move forward (and having most of staff stick around would've helped with that I would think).

          But I did not, do not, and will not think even the slightest bit less of anyone who did/has/will make the choice to leave this site because of this. Saying that they're "traitors" and that they intentionally attempted to sabotage the site by leaving is harsh and not really true. I'd rather that there be less skepticism and mistrust from them regarding this thread, but I can understand why people are still wary--since at the moment, nothing really has changed. But that change should come in the days ahead of us.

          god idk if I'm even making sense here or if it's even a good idea for me to post
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          Old March 4th, 2018 (6:48 AM).
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          Mewtwolover Mewtwolover is offline
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by bobandbill View Post
            Perhaps pedantic, but if he still owns the server and he still has the financial part of it as a result, in my mind he still counts as staff. Maybe not in official rank, but in practise.
            He must be considered as staff as long as he owns the server and therefore has access to it because he can still do what he wants to the forum, all he needs is access to the files and database.
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            Old March 4th, 2018 (6:51 AM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Mantager.
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            Mantager Mantager is offline
               
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              Escape Rope was 'promoted' very heavily in the old Discord and many times it was posted it felt as if people were being pressured to join. To me, this incident is not something that is unrecoverable, it's very ancient at this point. It somewhat feels like a way to make Rukario a scapegoat whilst trying to scoop up all of PC's userbase and put them into a new, flashy forum, essentially attempting to replace PC. It's quite suspicious to me.

              With that said, I hope PC continues to survive. It would be a shame to see it fall apart over this.
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              Old March 4th, 2018 (6:59 AM).
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              Castform Castform is online now
               
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Mantager View Post
              Escape Rope was 'promoted' very heavily in the old Discord and many times it was posted it felt as if people were being pressured to join. To me, this incident is not something that is unrecoverable, it's very ancient at this point. It somewhat feels like a way to make Rukario a scapegoat whilst trying to scoop up all of PC's userbase and put them into a new, flashy forum, essentially attempting to replace PC. It's quite suspicious to me.

              With that said, I hope PC continues to survive. It would be a shame to see it fall apart over this.

              ER was being promoted by people outside of staff(for the most part) and not something we encouraged. I don't want anyone to join the new community if they feel pressured. If you feel more comfortable and prefer PC, definitely stay here. However I can promise you that when we created this community it wasn't to take down PC but rather give those uncomfortable a place to go. With PC seemingly surviving I think everyone hopes for the best for both sites. And I for one think they can coexist.
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              Old March 4th, 2018 (7:12 AM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Choice Specs View Post
              ER was being promoted by people outside of staff(for the most part) and not something we encouraged. I don't want anyone to join the new community if they feel pressured. If you feel more comfortable and prefer PC, definitely stay here. However I can promise you that when we created this community it wasn't to take down PC but rather give those uncomfortable a place to go. With PC seemingly surviving I think everyone hopes for the best for both sites. And I for one think they can coexist.
              Yes, in fact, everytime I saw the link being spammed, it was the same guy who I had never seen before.
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              Old March 4th, 2018 (7:51 AM).
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                Although I’m not sure it’s my place to know, can someone say what happened? It looks like loads of people left to a new community? I’m really confused
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                Old March 4th, 2018 (8:01 AM).
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                AetherBoyMicha AetherBoyMicha is offline
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                  What happened here sounds crazy...
                  I've been dragged through various 'crisises' on another forum including when I was part of the staff so I can tell it's stressful for all those involved. Especially when it comes to picking sides, one of my close friends (on staff too) caused chaos distressing the other users and staff. I've been through it as both as a normal user and as staff, it was equally difficult to deal with both times as our home felt unsafe to our friends.

                  We managed to get through it though because we wanted to keep our family together and it's now a distant memory. I know you guys can keep everyone's home together and get through this ^^ I support you guys, it's stressful for everyone I can tell but I know you'll pull through.
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                  Old March 4th, 2018 (8:21 AM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Circuit.
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                  Circuit Circuit is offline
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                  Well if there was ever a reason not to come back, it'd be this.

                  Although I'm not overly surprised by it, the amount of people willing to wrap a towel over their eyes just because they don't want to accept they'll have to find another place to chat with one another is incredible. This is all very suspect, every step, every single move taken in this drama muk-show. How come the minute Jake gets accused of fraud, Steve gets ousted? Now I'm not defending Steve, and this whole situation is enough to warrant a shut down or an overhaul at least, but why did it come out immediately after the accusations made towards Jake? Next question, why the hell is the main target of these accusations suddenly in charge of the place? Like, it's so obviously suspicious yet everyone just seems to, go along with it, as if it's just a bump in the road. Hello? He's potentially stealing your money (if you donated). Even if the rumors are false, which after the course of actions taken I'm doubtful about, it's disconcerting to still see that person in a high or top position, as if nothing has happened.

                  It breaks all trust one has in the staff, when power plays like this appear to unfold. And before you retort "That's not how it is at all, let me explain... herpaderp," let me tell you, that is exactly how it appears, and what you say without definitive proof could always just be something to save face, so why should you be believed? Stepping down and handing over the reigns at that point would have been the best choice in order to maintain trust and allow the forum to carry on.

                  If you guys believe this can continue successfully, good luck. But honestly, it'd be a good time to bow out and rebuild from scratch. PC needed it for a long time anyway.

                  @ThatOneBritish - it was rumoured that "some of the admins" - later fingers pointed directly at Jake aka Hiroshi Sotomura - were stealing donations and using them for personal profit (which is illegal afaik), then shortly after the staff leaked that Rukario was as of some 30+ years ago a registered sex offender against a minor.
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                  Old March 4th, 2018 (8:31 AM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Vigilance.
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                    First, I congratulate (I use this word lightly) on the good news that comes from this after such an elongated wait. While I have my own reservations about the whole incident, it is good to hear that some change is on the horizon. As you must be aware of, some change is always better than none. Whether that is good or bad is solely in the Admin's team hands. That said, I would advise you to be completely transparent with the userbase. That begins with the staff. I see the staff list has been updated to some degree but the question remains who actually is staying. Are people from "Escape Rope" going to be working on both fronts and, with time, will people still be advertising Escape Rope on PC's community fronts? (Discord etc). I agree that PC needs to rebuild and more importantly return in a refreshed state to discern itself from the problems it was entrenched in and that occurs when you rid yourself of the old PC and come in with the new, independent PC. I don't think you guys can currently do it and I think the entire narrative with ER muddles it more. That said, maybe you'll prove me wrong. Use this to rethink who deserves what and who can take this issue and turn it into a positive for the community. Godspeed.
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                    Old March 4th, 2018 (9:22 AM).
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                    Until the very end.
                     
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                    I think everyone needs to remember that this is a delicate situation and things have to be handled with care. It’s not as simple as “throw it all in the trash” or “demote everyone involved” or “look the other way” because of how the community was built. So before anyone makes any hasty decisions about how those who leave are “traitors” and how shady the changing of the guard is, why don’t you give it time to play out?
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                    Old March 4th, 2018 (9:38 AM).
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                    Quote:
                    it was revealed that "some of the admins" - later fingers pointed directly at Jake aka Hiroshi Sotomura - were stealing donations and using them for personal profit (which is illegal afaik)
                    I want to clarify that this was a rumor, not a reveal. As as an admin who was around the entire time these accusations were thrown around, I have not seen any sort of evidence to prove it was actually true. None of us want to act on the basis of rumors; it's not healthy for the people involved nor the community itself.

                    Regardless, some people are clearly going to be unhappy with Jake being a community administrator, which was something every single one of us expected would happen. Serious work and transparency will need to be put in to restore people's trust in him, if that is even a possibility to begin with. I'll wait until he wakes up to see and address these points, as it's his responsibility.

                    Quote:
                    I think everyone needs to remember that this is a delicate situation and things have to be handled with care. It’s not as simple as “throw it all in the trash” or “demote everyone involved” or “look the other way” because of how the community was built. So before anyone makes any hasty decisions about how those who leave are “traitors” and how shady the changing of the guard is, why don’t you give it time to play out?
                    This is true... You have no idea how much stress we've endured these last few days trying to help PC survive. People have worked extremely hard to ensure this community has a chance at a future and did our best to work out as many issues as we could to make more people comfortable with the idea of staying. If it hasn't been worked out now, it will be in the near future as we take steps forward. It's far from perfect and there are still improvements/changes we could make, but not everything can be done overnight. We're just humans behind a screen.
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                    Old March 4th, 2018 (9:54 AM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by twocows.
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                    i still feel a bit miffed about how this all played out for steve and jake, both of whom i'm convinced did nothing wrong during their time here and don't deserve the crap they've gotten, but i'll be around no matter what happens. hope things go smoothly for you guys.
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                    Old March 4th, 2018 (9:55 AM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Jonghyun.
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                    Jonghyun Jonghyun is offline
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                    Honestly, this thread and the resolves around it are the best things that could've come out of this! Just the fact that some of the old admins are back to help it along, and some very good staff members chose to stick around, gives me hope that PC and can keep going and move on. It's funny because I had kind of grown out of / or away from forums, but once this happened to PC I felt really terrible about it, and it made me want to stick with it rather than remaining inactive. I'll see what happens, but I wish all the best to the members, and the staff who are going to try to build it back up. This was a very small amount of time in the grand scheme of PC, even though it is a huge happening, I hope we can make it through as smoothly as possible. :>

                    Good luck to everyone, and thanks for this thread, and your input.

                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by twocows View Post
                    i still feel a bit miffed about how this all played out for steve and jake, both of whom i'm convinced did nothing wrong and don't deserve the crap they've gotten, but i'll be around no matter what happens. hope things go smoothly for you guys.
                    Yeah, Steve got treated a little too harshly IMO, however that issue is very sensitive to a lot of people, and with all the uproar I don't see another way things could've gone down - rather than him stepping down if only to stop riots over time.
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                    Old March 4th, 2018 (10:43 AM).
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                      ok I read thorugh the post and I honestly don't get what happened.How is PC in trouble of going down.But to the remaining admins on here cudos to you for sticking through it and trying to keep this beautiful community from going under.
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                      Old March 4th, 2018 (10:52 AM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Venia Silente.
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                      One random commentary that came to mind while reading the announcement to someone else:

                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by The Announcement
                      Suggestions that finances have been used for untoward purposes have evolved largely as the result of the current lack of transparency within the staff. These concerns are understandable, but we aim to set the record straight: funds given to the PokéCommunity stay in PC's budget. A server like PC’s requires a lot of resources, and as a result, a lot of money. Some months, PC runs a surplus and in this case, the extra money is set aside for the community, usually allotted to offset the costs when the budget runs a deficit in other months. Our new leadership intends to rectify these issues in several ways, and we’ll have more to announce about this at a later date.
                      (emphasis mine)

                      The specific wording and breaking in that long paragraph makes it read like the issue that the new admins intend to have solved is that of Pokécommunity having a surplus... I'm aaaaaaaalmost sure that was not completely intentional, but still it sounds funny and weird enough that I felt it a good idea to bring attention to it, considering the size of that paragraph.

                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by bobandbill
                      Some people also cannot realistically risk their jobs or even careers, especially when it involves children, for being on a pokemon site owned by someone on the sex offender register. Another view is that knowingly staying at a place where kids would be in danger from that fact alone, even besides all the details in the conviction, etc., is morally unacceptable for many people.
                      I admittedly find that to be partly hypocrisy and partly fear of the witch hunt; McCarthyism if you will. I'll concede that while this is the internet and you should not be associating with almost any site using your real identity that could put at risk your job or career, it's not the kind of thing you change from back when you didn't know.

                      But calling out this situation as if it merited a special or spectacular response compared to the rest of stuff in real life feels at least a little disingenuous - if you go work on any mining, drilling or oil company or iPhone chip assemblies it's likely the owners are responsible for far worse, even actual deaths, yet no one really calls out on "no I can't be a consumer there". Not with the steadfast pace that we saw here. Not when those facts are unknown and certainly not as much as one would expect one they get known.

                      My view is that we are all willing to smooth talk on how everyone deserves a chance and the system is broken etc but when it is the time to put our money or our punch where we put our mouths, well, we already saw the response. I don't really blame it on those who left, I've already stated my word on who has to answer for this; it's just that herd behaviour is not a thing that one should ignore to build protections from.

                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Mantager
                      Escape Rope was 'promoted' very heavily in the old Discord and many times it was posted it felt as if people were being pressured to join. To me, this incident is not something that is unrecoverable, it's very ancient at this point. It somewhat feels like a way to make Rukario a scapegoat whilst trying to scoop up all of PC's userbase and put them into a new, flashy forum, essentially attempting to replace PC. It's quite suspicious to me.
                      Yeah. Unfortunately the timeline of the events as reported does little to sausage that, even considering that things like the Discord that are not dependent on the site owner but on a completely different third party were left aimless, for example the bots were removed - or rather, migrated to the other server.

                      As for the strong advertising of ER itself, while quite minor at this point I think that should be dealt with in some manner, at least in the sense of "focalizing" the advertising.

                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Circuit
                      And before you retort "That's not how it is at all, let me explain... herpaderp," let me tell you, that is exactly how it appears, and what you say without definitive proof could always just be something to save face, so why should you be believed? Stepping down and handing over the reigns at that point would have been the best choice in order to maintain trust and allow the forum to carry on.
                      Agree still that this would be a good move, and should have been the first (well, second after sidelining Rukario) move in the first place.


                      Quote:
                      What does not help is to label a large group of people traitors or the like. I truly feel that bar maybe the odd bad egg here and there
                      Quote:
                      Saying that they're "traitors" and that they intentionally attempted to sabotage the site by leaving is harsh and not really true
                      Fair enough on the term; I think the direction is right though, even if in the end we here swear no further allegiance than skipping the TOS / EULA to click okay. Maybe, for the time being, I'll settle on unfaithful and undependable. Basically it'd be unfair to expect me to say welcome those people with open arms in a web platform or a community I manage.

                      Still, perception works both ways. They saw fit to focus on only one single sin of the past -already paid for- and take judgment from there with partial information and half rumors, ignoring the entire rest of that person's history; they saw fit to play to the trend of judging people only or mostly by the flanderized version of them, so to speak. Compared to that, I did -and feel a hold to- a lot, at least a couple notches above minimum diligence and decency.


                      Quote:
                      While Steve will continue to support the community financially during this period of transition, we want to keep ensuring that funds are used appropriately for the continued benefit of PC and current funding will be closely monitored by the new leadership.
                      That's one thing I have been meaning to ask tho. Who is the site going to be legally delivered to? If we deliver it to one single person, we basically return to the same originating problem. I would expect a site like PC to be run or managed legally / financially by an LLC or at least a large enough group of people to as to diminish individual associations, though I have been told LLCs are complicated and web sites managed by them do not really work (which I'm pretty sure is wrong, but then again I'm thinking of highly successful and brand-marketable sites); handing over the finances of the site of a group of people who fully work in or invest in Pokécommunity also opens up a couple of evil incentives, as it was mentioned at some point the stuff about the guests seeing very bad ads.
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