Debate Why are there still Nazis around? Page 3

Started by Esper August 15th, 2017 5:52 PM
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gimmepie

Age 24
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Australia
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Can I just speak for the topic's question and say can we stay relevant on the overall point that is, "Why do Nazi's still exist?". Regardless if you think the media is blowing it out, instances like Charleston SC and the car running in Virginia still existed. The point of this isn't to a problem dick measuring contest, but to analyze why people with such horrible viewpoints are still prevalent today.

Also, bring up another issue that exists doesn't make the one in question any less important. I can bring up a worse example and we can be stuck in a never ending cycle of trying to prove one is better than the other.

Look if you have a reason to think Nazi's exist due to political unrest that's fine, but please either stay relevant to the discussion cause I see this everywhere I go and all around the world. It does nothing but be divisive and keep from things being done.

Pardon the bluntness
Well I came here to do this but... that.

Mewtwolover

Age 35
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Then why is diversity only being forced in white countries?
In fact, why are you suddenly an anti-semite when you say that Israel should have open borders?
Don't expect correct answers to those questions here, telling the truth is likely bannable offense.

I do feel unfairly treated by my government. Which, because I am European, is in control of left-wing politicians who are placing their own people second. This is why I am opposed to Europe as a whole and why I hope that my country will start taking measures to leave it soon, just like the UK has done. A country should always have to be able to put its own citizens first, no exceptions.
So much this, it's disgusting how Poland, Hungary and Czech Republic are being punished for putting their own citizens first.
Mewtwo X Espeon 4-ever!
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Posted March 18th, 2018
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8.7 Years
Don't expect correct answers to those questions here, telling the truth is likely bannable offense.
Maybe it's because being a racist idiot is likely to get you banned, given that this is a pokemon forum and not stormfront. People in this thread (including me) have pointed out why there's no such thing as "forced diversity in white countries", and why even advocating that idea in the first place is pretty racist in and of itself.

How about you go and say "the truth", so we can just debunk it

So much this, it's disgusting how Poland, Hungary and Czech Republic are being punished for putting their own citizens first.
They're being punished because they're actively causing the migrant crisis for no real reason, they're refusing to take in their fair share of refugees and forcing the countries who do to take them in to take in a ton more than they can support. They're being punished because they're refusing to own up to their responsibilities as being part of the EU for no reason other than vague dogwhislting + political pointscoring, and in turn directly hurting the rest of the countries in the EU.

gimmepie

Age 24
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Australia
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8.3 Years
Please keep it civil in here guys. We can disagree without resorting to personal attacks or misinformation.
Male
Seen June 21st, 2018
Posted March 18th, 2018
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8.7 Years
Please keep it civil in here guys. We can disagree without resorting to personal attacks or misinformation.
I don't really feel like that was a personal attack at all, it's hostile in tone and i don't feel like there should be any issue with that, especially when addressing outright racism like this.

It's not exactly a secret that mewtwolover has posted things that border on/are white nationalism talking points in this section in the past, either

gimmepie

Age 24
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I don't really feel like that was a personal attack at all, it's hostile in tone and i don't feel like there should be any issue with that, especially when addressing outright racism like this.

It's not exactly a secret that mewtwolover has posted things that border on/are white nationalism talking points in this section in the past, either
If you'd crossed too far I'd have messaged you directly and deleted the post. That's just a reminder because the conversation is starting to teeter in that direction.

Nah

Age 27
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Don't expect correct answers to those questions here, telling the truth is likely bannable offense.
Maybe it's because being a racist idiot is likely to get you banned,
I'm just gonna say this so people don't get the wrong idea, especially those who don't visit this section much:

You can't actually get infracted or banned on here for merely having a certain point of view (or in the words of these two, for "telling the truth" or "being a racist idiot"). This is a discussion section, and so various viewpoints and opinions are required in order for it to thrive--echo chambers are terribly boring places y'know. There's nothing in either this section's rules or the PokeCommunity's universal rules that states or implies that people with certain ideologies should/must be barred from discussion here. Trolling or flaming or being directly disrespectful to PC members is something we are willing to infract/ban for though.

This is not to say that I (and I know that it may be hard for some of you to believe me) and Gimme agree with.....certain viewpoints, or think that they're ok/not awful things to think, because we usually don't. It's just that it's also kind of iron fisted tyrant-like to infract or ban people for simply having and/or expressing a disagreeable opinion, regardless of what it is, even if it is some truly vile stuff.....unless you all like, want me to be an iron fisted tyrant or something.

This is likely an unpopular point of view, but oh well.

-----

Anyway, back to the topic at hand everyone.
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
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Posted March 18th, 2018
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8.7 Years
You can't actually get infracted or banned on here for merely having a certain point of view (or in the words of these two, for "telling the truth" or "being a racist idiot").
Not to reignite this whole thing, but is there really no policy (in this section, at least) against hate speech on PC? I guess this set of mods policies =/= all policies of all previous mods, but i've seen people infracted/been banned for that before here. One example i remember pretty clearly was some guy who said a bunch of garbage up to and including calling immigration of muslim people a "dirty brown tide" or something

I think there definitely needs to be some kind of iron fist past a point, especially for that kind of thing, because while debate is fine for most things we talk about here there's certain ideologies (white nationalism ect) that no one really benefits from debating, and can make the people who're the targets of those kind of ideologies feel uncomfortable. Even in a setting where something is so absurd for the only response to be mocking (Lets go for a hypothetical example, like "lets stop gay immigration" or something else substituting race/religion/ethnic group for "gay") that still gives a platform to ideologies that fundamentally don't deserve to be treated like they're valid viewpoints to be discussed, because you're working backwards and always in the favour of the people supporing it since it's a bad faith argument to begin with. You're legitimising it through allowing it to be treated as something worthy of being discussed, i guess

Not to accuse anyone of fostering that mindset, that's just what i got out of that

Vragon

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Not to reignite this whole thing, but is there really no policy (in this section, at least) against hate speech on PC? I guess this set of mods policies =/= all policies of all previous mods, but i've seen people infracted/been banned for that before here. One example i remember pretty clearly was some guy who said a bunch of garbage up to and including calling immigration of muslim people a "dirty brown tide" or something

I think there definitely needs to be some kind of iron fist past a point, especially for that kind of thing, because while debate is fine for most things we talk about here there's certain ideologies (white nationalism ect) that no one really benefits from debating, and can make the people who're the targets of those kind of ideologies feel uncomfortable. Even in a setting where something is so absurd for the only response to be mocking (Lets go for a hypothetical example, like "lets stop gay immigration" or something else substituting race/religion/ethnic group for "gay") that still gives a platform to ideologies that fundamentally don't deserve to be treated like they're valid viewpoints to be discussed, because you're working backwards and always in the favour of the people supporing it since it's a bad faith argument to begin with. You're legitimising it through allowing it to be treated as something worthy of being discussed, i guess

Not to accuse anyone of fostering that mindset, that's just what i got out of that
And this is one of the reasons I believe White Nationalism still exists. Regardless if you think it's stupid or contributes nothing you can't just disregard their ability to talk about things here. An issue I really see is this whole refusing to talk with them and as a result a sense of hostility from them. I get viewpoints I disagree, hell some on PC I'm firmly against, but at the same time this is a place to discuss ones opinions in a fair environment (or at least it should be).

I'm not a mod so I don't know that example or why it would happen unless it was a personal attack or something (in which case all I can take your example as is an interpretation unless you have evidence of the thread).

Also, so they aren't legitimizing it just by letting it have a say. That's what mediators do. Sides if you want to discuss an issue you need to discuss all sides of it with the viewpoints of the respective sides. Yes, I can agree with you that this debates place isn't very useful in the long term when it comes to changing things, but just cause this one debate section doesn't help much doesn't mean you change it
from the basic rules of Debate.

When it comes to me and debates I try to see each opinion out there as a statement. I try to get peeps show reasons/evidence why a certain thing is better or would work. Get them to prove their point in a way. This is something that has show problems here and doing what you would suggest would only make it worse for a couple of reasons.
1) I don't have to prove myself if the other opinion is stupid enough to not have a say
2) favoritism
3) I'm less inclined to change my opinion since anything a person with (so and so opinion) says is no doubt supporting a false idea.

Also, just cause someone has such an opinion doesn't mean they only have that opinion or fully support that belief. I'm sorry but it's for reasons like these I stayed away from debates for a long time. Frankly whatever your opinion is, if you wanna say it then support it. Don't just do subjective feelings in the matter, show why it would be better.

This is a problem with discussing problems I've seen and it needs to stop if any sort of solution or compromise is to come.

gimmepie

Age 24
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Australia
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8.3 Years
"I disapprove of what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evalynn Beatrice Hall
Please don't use this thread for feedback and return to using it for its intended purpose.

Sektor

Age 25
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The Subway
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Posted November 18th, 2019
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3.8 Years
I feel like I am a little too late to weigh in heavily here, but the real and honest answer to the original question, without bothering myself with people linking blog posts and other such drivel that holds no truth nor validity in the main scheme of things, is a hard no.

No, Nazis are not still a thing, but neonazism? Sure, have at it. Waste your time and energy concerning yourself with the less than 10,000 Americans that are Neo-Nazis/KKK.

This number comes from the SPLC, which arguably inflates the truth on a regular basis and conflates pepe the frog as a machination of evil.

If you wish to talk the talk and walk the walk show up with some numbers from an entity that is verified and sanctioned, like the FBI, which also agrees that Neo-Nazism isn't much to worry over. Roughly 10,000 members nation wide is hardly a call to arms.

Also, Nationalism is not an evil thing. It's an idea that can be taken too far but I would also like to point out that even my go to for facts, the FBI, has made blunders in this field over whether Nationalists are bad.

Ruby Ridge Incident: To make a long story short, they killed a man's son, shot his wife in the dome, shot his friend and also jailed them to boot because Nationalists are bad. The guy was an apocalypse nutjob and they thought he was an evil Nazi.

Careful with what you wish for. Mistakes are easy to make and lives can be lost because you've decided that all Nationalism is bad.

Loving your country is not a bad thing. The same can also be said about loving your city and your neighborhood and wanting it to be clean and crime free. That's the basic idea and just because it can become twisted doesn't mean it will. I would even argue that the entire military is comprised of Nationalists, those that are willing to fight for their country and die for it.