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4th Gen My problem with HG/SS

Pools

4
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6
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  • Age 25
  • Seen Mar 28, 2018
Ok, let me get this outta the way. HG/SS are my favorite Pokemon games of all time, which is saying a lot since the Pokemon series is so dear to me. The amount of content in HG/SS is insane, and the post game is THE BEST in all of Pokemon. But I have one problem. The selection of Pokemon in the early-mid game (1-4 Gyms) are disappointingly bland. Geodude, Zubat, Caterpie, Weedle, Sentret, Spearow, Bellsprout, Ghastly, Ekans, etc. It feels like theres nothing very interesting to catch until you get to 5th gym, with the exception of Wooper and Mareep.
 
VisionofMilotic

VisionofMilotic

9,618
Posts
7
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Yes, I suppose it is typical of early route Pokemon. There are also some real gems though like you mentioned Mareep and Wooper, and I personally liked the inclusion of the Gastly and Geodude line as options. If we count all the way up to 4th gym I think there are actually quite a few good options Growlithe/Vulpix, Abra, Machop, Onix, Scyther, Nidoran, Poliwag and Slowpoke. Though a criticism might be that its mostly good gen 1 Pokemon, and not quite as many 2nd gen Pokemon.

I would love to hear what improvements you would make to HGSS in this area. Is there a Pokemon line that you would have added to the early game?
Which of the main series Pokemon games do you think has the best selection of Pokemon for your first encounter?
 
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BH

BH

Canine pokemon fan
1,041
Posts
18
Years
Pools said:
Ok, let me get this outta the way. HG/SS are my favorite Pokemon games of all time, which is saying a lot since the Pokemon series is so dear to me. The amount of content in HG/SS is insane, and the post game is THE BEST in all of Pokemon. But I have one problem. The selection of Pokemon in the early-mid game (1-4 Gyms) are disappointingly bland. Geodude, Zubat, Caterpie, Weedle, Sentret, Spearow, Bellsprout, Ghastly, Ekans, etc. It feels like theres nothing very interesting to catch until you get to 5th gym, with the exception of Wooper and Mareep.
Click to expand...

It seems i need to hack the game soon to include the unpotainable pokemon (Probopass, Leafeon, Glaceon)
 

Pools

4
Posts
6
Years
  • Age 25
  • Seen Mar 28, 2018
All three of those can be traded from Diamond/Platinum/Pearl, and don't need to be hacked
 

Pools

4
Posts
6
Years
  • Age 25
  • Seen Mar 28, 2018
VisionofMilotic said:
Yes, I suppose it is typical of early route Pokemon. There are also some real gems though like you mentioned Mareep and Wooper, and I personally liked the inclusion of the Gastly and Geodude line as options. If we count all the way up to 4th gym I think there are actually quite a few good options Growlithe/Vulpix, Abra, Machop, Onix, Scyther, Nidoran, Poliwag and Slowpoke. Though a criticism might be that its mostly good gen 1 Pokemon, and not quite as many 2nd gen Pokemon.

I would love to hear what improvements you would make to HGSS in this area. Is there a Pokemon line that you would have added to the early game?
Which of the main series Pokemon games do you think has the best selection of Pokemon for your first encounter?
Click to expand...

I am actually a big fan of what Black and White did where they added a whole new, large roster to their games. I think Pokemon games should be mostly new Pokemon, with a few oldies sprinkled in, and then in the post game you'd get a chance to catch the rest. Sun/Moon, Black/White 2, and Platinum are probably my favorites roster wise. If I could add any lines to early game HG/SS then I'd probably opt to just add more completely new Pokemon instead. I know I probably sound really whiney, but it feels like Gen 2 is 90% Pokemon from Gen 1. This becomes especially annoying when playing a Nuzlocke/Wedlocke
 
VisionofMilotic

VisionofMilotic

9,618
Posts
7
Years
I also agree that gen 5 offered something really fresh. Though I like several of the Pokemon mentioned previously, by not having any Pokemon available from previous gens it makes the game more of challenge. You had a brand new world to get to know. They also added so many Pokemon to pick from. I like gen 5 a lot.

I don't hear any of the things you pointed as as whining, its interesting to think about. I hadn't actually stopped to consider how familiar the dex was until you made the thread. Its definitely something worth talking about.
 

eldon-satoka

6
Posts
6
Years
VisionofMilotic said:
I also agree that gen 5 offered something really fresh. Though I like several of the Pokemon mentioned previously, by not having any Pokemon available from previous gens it makes the game more of challenge. You had a brand new world to get to know. They also added so many Pokemon to pick from. I like gen 5 a lot.

I don't hear any of the things you pointed as as whining, its interesting to think about. I hadn't actually stopped to consider how familiar the dex was until you made the thread. Its definitely something worth talking about.
Click to expand...

I think it's not so advantageous to create so many extra pokemon in one go, though, since they then have to create a whole new set of 3D models every time a new game comes around. I think that's why they started to curtail new ones from the 6th generation.

Personally I enjoyed all the new pokes in BW, though, FWIW. It did feel fresh.
 

colours

8,973
Posts
19
Years
Keep in mind that the same flaws HGSS has that you're pointing out are roughly the same flaws that the original GSC games have. There aren't really as much variety with early-mid game Pokemon and as such it can feel like kind of a chore kind of grinding through with just around 3-4 Pokemon in your team. I think it starts to get more interesting when you start to reach the end of Johto and especially Kanto, but that one quarter/one third of the game is a challenge to muscle through, at least imo.
 
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Ninetales

Ninetales

1,743
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6
Years
Personally, my biggest issue with the games is that it's extremely hard to level up my Pokemon. Wild pokemon are quite low-levelled all throughout the game which makes it hard to do any sort of training outside trainer battles. Trainers themselves have lower-level pokemon which further adds to this issue.

Typically, my pokemon are always 2-10 levels higher than the elite four/champion. However, this game forced me to battle Lance with lower-levelled pokemon which made the battle slightly more difficult than normal. I love HG/SS SOOO much but that is a bit of an annoyance for me.

The lack of pokemon diversity never bothered me that much, I guess I'm just content with a pidgey and caterpie.
 
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Pools

4
Posts
6
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  • Age 25
  • Seen Mar 28, 2018
colours said:
Keep in mind that the same flaws HGSS has that you're pointing out are roughly the same flaws that the original GSC games have. There aren't really as much variety with early-mid game Pokemon and as such it can feel like kind of a chore kind of grinding through with just around 3-4 Pokemon in your team. I think it starts to get more interesting when you start to reach the end of Johto and especially Kanto, but that one quarter/one third of the game is a challenge to muscle through, at least imo.
Click to expand...

I specifically singled HG/SS out because the developers had a second chance to add some new Poke's or mix up the roster a little.
 
Star Arcana

Star Arcana

Hope springs eternal
260
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6
Years
Ninetales2000 said:
Personally, my biggest issue with the games is that it's extremely hard to level up my Pokemon. Wild pokemon are quite low-levelled all throughout the game which makes it hard to do any sort of training outside trainer battles. Trainers themselves have lower-level pokemon which further adds to this issue.

Typically, my pokemon are always 2-10 levels higher than the elite four/champion. However, this game forced me to battle Lance with lower-levelled pokemon which made the battle slightly more difficult than normal. I love HG/SS SOOO much but that is a bit of an annoyance for me.

The lack of pokemon diversity never bothered me that much, I guess I'm just content with a pidgey and caterpie.
Click to expand...

Oh my swirls, yes! Leveling up in Johto is needlessly frustrating, and by the time I reach Claire with a full team, most have fallen more then a little behind.

Otherwise, my biggest beef with HG/SS is the presence of Lyra over Crystal. I've expressed my frustration about this in other threads, so I'll save everyone a rant here.
 

strangerhypno

2,823
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6
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  • Age 122
  • Seen Jan 27, 2019
Yes GSC and its remakes are my top favorite pokemon games and they have these minor annoyances. The beginning selection is too basic for me, same with other games, I sometimes solo my way with only my underlevelled starter and the early gyms are hell. Maybe I need to suck it up and pick up a Rattata or something. Zubat's alright though since you can get a Crobat in the end.
 

Cloud9FF7

3
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6
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  • Age 34
  • Seen Feb 6, 2018
Does anyone have a save file I can have up to 5th badge or less. I lost mine in an overwrite :(
 

rh3252

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  • Age 19
  • Seen May 5, 2018
Though a criticism might be that its mostly good gen 1 Pokemon said:
Heracross is a really amazing early fighting type with good stats, but other than that, not much to be seen of gen 2 pokemon that I would bother adding to my team. My in-game team in crystal consisted of all gen 1 pokes except feraligatr.

Ultra Sun has the best selection in my opinion btw. Hawlucha, Noibat, Bagon, Grubbin etc.

Also bring back phanpy from crystal in hgss.
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BH

BH

Canine pokemon fan
1,041
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18
Years
Pools said:
All three of those can be traded from Diamond/Platinum/Pearl, and don't need to be hacked
Click to expand...

Yeah i know, but most people use emulators to play pokemon games, and trading in them is rare
 
colabear9

colabear9

Lurker
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7
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  • Age 25
  • Seen Feb 24, 2018
Star Arcana said:
Oh my swirls, yes! Leveling up in Johto is needlessly frustrating, and by the time I reach Claire with a full team, most have fallen more then a little behind.

Otherwise, my biggest beef with HG/SS is the presence of Lyra over Crystal. I've expressed my frustration about this in other threads, so I'll save everyone a rant here.
Click to expand...

That ^

I love Kris. Lyra's kind of an annoying brat (lol).

I have to agree that the level gap and the types of Pokemon you can get is a little stupid. There are quite a few Normal-types that will do pretty much nothing against Jasmine (I think that's how you spell her name? I'm too lazy to look it up). Yeah, Mareep, Wooper, and Gastly are great (unless you're me who had no friends to trade a Haunter to evolve...had to do it with two DS...es? xD) but still. You can't even get Natu until after Mahogany Town.
 

sooper-shoopy

34
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6
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  • Age 29
  • Seen Jul 3, 2018
I agree, the lack of selection in Johto is annoying to me. What bugs me the most, though, is the fact that there are so many awesome Johto Pokemon that appear so stupidly late in the game. Stuff like Murkrow, Houndour, Misdreavus... Yeah, you can trade them over, but when I play through the game, I really prefer to catch things myself. It feels more organic that way, you know? Maybe it's just me...

Also, HG/SS just has a lot of little things that I find completely annoying. Like the fact that the international versions have Voltorb Flip, and you can't buy coins, so if you want certain TMs, too bad, you have to play Voltorb Flip.

Or the fact that a lot of the newer evolutionary stones are only available through PokeGear trainers, Pokeathelon, and the Bug Catching Contest... The first one is such a low chance, and I'm so bad that the other two that it makes it just completely non-viable for me.

Also, the way that Ho-Oh/Lugia and the Kimono Girls are shoehorned into that climax scene... It really felt like a step backwards, like they were clearly forcing the games into the same story mold as the newer games.

But I will say this - at least you CAN get later gen Pokemon in HG/SS. FR/LG was awful for the "no non-Kanto Pokemon until post-game!" thing.
 
synthetics

synthetics

6
Posts
6
Years
HG/SS are my favorite Pokémon games too, but I've always had the leveling problem as well. In my last playthrough, training for the Elite Four took me sooo long because my Pokémon were so underleveled (like, I walked out of the Blackthorn gym with a team averaging at level ~34) and there aren't any good training spots.

Honestly though, I don't think the selection in Johto is so poor; you can get Pokémon like Mareep or Heracross fairly early in the game, plus I've always considered Hoothoot and Noctowl the most interesting beginner's flying types out of any game.
 
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