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  #1    
Old October 11th, 2018 (12:04 AM).
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    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45818176

    Geez, this insanity has to stop. Who cares if your skin is different from everyone else? We're all human after all...
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    Old October 11th, 2018 (3:56 AM).
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    I see the South is still up to its old muk
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    Old October 11th, 2018 (5:07 AM).
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    Well that right there is psyducked up.
    Unfortunately though, there's no instant fix to a problem that is this systemically ingrained into a country. All we can do is continue to educate and correct where we can.
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    Old October 11th, 2018 (7:39 AM).
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    Vile indeed. If only it were a phenomenon peculiar to the southern states in the U.S. Last month in Wisconsin an African-American lawmaker Sheila Stubbs was canvassing for her election, introducing herself to her neighbors in the district she wished to serve. She came along with her children and over 70 year-old mother I might add.

    A nosy neighbor saw this non-white family sitting in a parked car, and watched Sheila use her cellphone, then suspected them of all being drug dealers. You can read about this case of driving while being black down below.


    https://madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/election-matters/constituent-called-suspecting-drug-deal-on-dane-county-supervisor-shelia/article_65a7dcea-52e0-5ad0-acea-135d10c3def0.html
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    Old October 11th, 2018 (8:01 AM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
      Well that right there is psyducked up.
      Unfortunately though, there's no instant fix to a problem that is this systemically ingrained into a country. All we can do is continue to educate and correct where we can.
      True. We all need to fix our problems today instead of leaving them to future generations. And this just happens to be one of the more critical ones of the lot.
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      Old October 11th, 2018 (1:47 PM).
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      Something I've learned while working in a call center: 90% of people are perfectly normal, 9% of people are kind of jerks, and 1% of people just make you go "what the heck is wrong with this person?"

      I don't think this is a particularly widespread problem, it seems more like a one-off crazy racist lady with a stick up her rear. But yeah, what a nasty woman. People like that are just awful.
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      Old October 11th, 2018 (11:37 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by twocows View Post
      Something I've learned while working in a call center: 90% of people are perfectly normal, 9% of people are kind of jerks, and 1% of people just make you go "what the heck is wrong with this person?"

      I don't think this is a particularly widespread problem, it seems more like a one-off crazy racist lady with a stick up her rear. But yeah, what a nasty woman. People like that are just awful.
      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-family-bbq-lake-merritt-oakland-white-woman-police-lake-a8349821.html

      https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/16/us/investor-memphis-police-trnd/index.html

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/26/permit-patty-san-francisco-police-black-girl-selling-water

      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/man-who-called-police-black-woman-north-carolina-pool-no-n889371

      https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/07/08/woman-fired-called-cops-black-man-socks-pool/766467002/

      https://power99.iheart.com/featured/cosmic-kev/content/2018-06-27-woman-goes-crazy-at-public-pool-assaults-black-teen-and-bites-cop/

      It aint rare at all.
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        #8    
      Old October 14th, 2018 (7:11 PM).
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        The fact that you put up five stories from news articles and follow up with saying "it aint rare at all mate." Genuinely bugs me in two ways.
        1) it's "ain't"
        2) Show me some actual statistics of call centers, else sorry, but I call cherry picking.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
        True. We all need to fix our problems today instead of leaving them to future generations. And this just happens to be one of the more critical ones of the lot.
        "Yes, we all need to fix our problems now, and let me sit back and not say how we can." This comment is about as pointless as saying, "clean your room, person in Alaska I'm not talking to."

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by VisionofMilotic View Post
        Vile indeed. If only it were a phenomenon peculiar to the southern states in the U.S.
        congrats you win the "generic award".

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by VisionofMilotic View Post
        Last month in Wisconsin an African-American lawmaker Sheila Stubbs was canvassing for her election, introducing herself to her neighbors in the district she wished to serve. She came along with her children and over 70 year-old mother I might add.

        A nosy neighbor saw this non-white family sitting in a parked car, and watched Sheila use her cellphone, then suspected them of all being drug dealers. You can read about this case of driving while being black down below.


        https://madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/election-matters/constituent-called-suspecting-drug-deal-on-dane-county-supervisor-shelia/article_65a7dcea-52e0-5ad0-acea-135d10c3def0.html
        Now I'm not going to claim the call was right and I agree it was 100% wrong. However, I'd rather here the woman's side or at least her reasoning, when she saw it and other factors before I dig into a news article like this.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by GimmiePie View Post
        Well that right there is psyducked up.
        Unfortunately though, there's no instant fix to a problem that is this systemically ingrained into a country. All we can do is continue to educate and correct where we can.
        Ah, "systemically" hmm...that's a big word right there. I'd really like to see where you can point me to this "system" it's built on and is engrained into, because I'd like to see where you get the idea that someone's opinion of another person makes it "systemic" or whatnot.

        Oh, and I mean current, since you did say "systematically" ingrained in a country (that's made up of F****** 50 states as I keep saying). So don't give me some past slavery BS when we're talking about now. Did it happen, yes, Jim crow did as well. However, give me something on the books that's systemic now, else you aren't being systemic about it until you show how it is.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Nah View Post
        I see the South is still up to its old muk
        Cute, now say something that actually means something.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45818176

        Geez, this insanity has to stop. Who cares if your skin is different from everyone else? We're all human after all...
        Freaking God, what are you even trying to do with this thread? Oh...an incident happened, that I agree was messed up....and? What are you adding by just typing out how it "needs to stop" and then say nothing about ways to do it?
        Literally only Gimmiepie said anything that could be seen as a suggestion, everyone else is just enjoying the circle jerking as well.

        Like, for those that read this far, I'm not saying any and I mean "any" of these instances were right. I'd have to review, but if you all think I'm defending anything here, no I'm not.
        What I am saying, is that this thread and ones like it are pointless and stupid because,
        1) They offer nothing but a means to vent about something far away usually
        2) bring up the temptation to stereotype some group of people or country
        3) get un-earned dick sucking from others because, "lol I agree, preach fam"
        4) Doesn't even try and discuss/debate this. Even if this is news, do something with it. Actually talk about this stuff. Discuss reasons why you'd think these women would do it, or the legitimacy of the writing in the article. Something that you know, actually means something.
        5) Is overblowing something. I'm tempted to start a counter for myself, for every comment I see that doesn't add anything.
        6) Are only used to stroke a sanctimonious ego.

        Do I think anyone doing this thread or talking is bad...of course not. But you all can in being honest, do better. You can do what you want, but frankly I find it rather disappointing this thread that looked promising at first has divulged into this mess.
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        Old October 14th, 2018 (7:43 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Vragon2.0 View Post
        Snip
        Okay, now that you've gone on a long monologue about how nobody here actually contributed to the discussion, maybe you'd like to contribute to the discussion? Otherwise all your doing is being contrarian for the sake of being contrary and that's just as pointless as participating in a circlejerk... and I think calling a bunch of people all lamenting yet another example of racial profiling in the US and the unjust vilification of an innocent man a circlejerk is both a going a bit far also somewhat disingenuous to begin with.

        Re: Evidence of a racial profiling, here's a handful of things that came up front searching "racial profiling in the US"
        https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/race-and-criminal-justice/racial-profiling
        https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/us/black-white-police.html
        https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/5/17/17362100/starbucks-racial-profiling-yale-airbnb-911

        and slightly less relevant, this one

        https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/11/us/everyday-racial-profiling-consequences-trnd/index.html


        Now, I won't argue against the idea that some news agencies might focus in on these issues for reasons pertaining largely to business and profit, but there's still clearly a problem here. This ignoring all the very well documented evidence of racially-based police violence and political policies unfairly targeting minorities.
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        Old October 14th, 2018 (8:06 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
          Now, I won't argue against the idea that some news agencies might focus in on these issues for reasons pertaining largely to business and profit, but there's still clearly a problem here. This ignoring all the very well documented evidence of racially-based police violence and political policies unfairly targeting minorities.
          I'm going to start with this one, because I think this most important thing here.
          Never in my thing, have I said,
          1) it wasn't a problem
          2) no action needs to be taken
          3) ignore well documented evidence on these topics
          4) all agencies are pretraining to business and profit.

          now that I've addressed that.
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
          Okay, now that you've gone on a long monologue about how nobody here actually contributed to the discussion, maybe you'd like to contribute to the discussion? Otherwise all your doing is being contrarian for the sake of being contrary and that's just as pointless as participating in a circlejerk... and I think calling a bunch of people all lamenting yet another example of racial profiling in the US and the unjust vilification of an innocent man a circlejerk is both a going a bit far also somewhat disingenuous to begin with.
          Hoooooo boy
          so, I'm going to take this in snippets
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
          Okay, now that you've gone on a long monologue about how nobody here actually contributed to the discussion, maybe you'd like to contribute to the discussion?
          uuuhhh
          Quote:
          Literally only Gimmiepie said anything that could be seen as a suggestion, everyone else is just enjoying the circle jerking as well.
          Also, I didn't mention TwoCows.
          And you're putting words into my mouth. I never said, "nobody here actually contributed" I said this.
          Quote:
          1) They offer nothing but a means to vent about something far away usually
          As a reason I think threads like this are stupid. Now, I can understand the connection and yeah sure, but ask for clarification on it, before you say I'm saying something I'm not.

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
          Otherwise all your doing is being contrarian for the sake of being contrary and that's just as pointless as participating in a circlejerk...
          Because I'm saying that this discussion should delve into...an actual discussion? I mean, yeah I could put my input, but that isn't the point of my post. In fact, I could argue I am, but addressing the "cherry picking" things and,
          Quote:
          Now I'm not going to claim the call was right and I agree it was 100% wrong. However, I'd rather here the woman's side or at least her reasoning, when she saw it and other factors before I dig into a news article like this.
          so no, I'm not. If anything, I'm wanting something from this thread, for it to go somewhere.

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
          and I think calling a bunch of people all lamenting yet another example of racial profiling in the US and the unjust vilification of an innocent man a circlejerk is both a going a bit far also somewhat disingenuous to begin with.
          Dude...wtf are you evening trying to say.
          "Lamenting" really now, did you just say I was calling you all "Lamenting".
          ...no Gimmie. I'm not. my list is for threads that aren't talking about the issue in a discussion as much as just talking about it as a "yes and applause" kinda thing. I'm not saying feeling bad about this equates a "circle" nor am I saying it's wrong to feel that way.

          Gimmie...stop putting words in my mouth...I didn't say
          If you want to address something of mine, ask me for clarification.
          I made this reply, because I saw a thread that wasn't so much discussing as it was just ranting. That's what the thread was doing. Not all, but was doing.


          Oh and regarding your sources that's something that actually is better than what Hands brought, the thing I was addressing.
          Though you haven't shown a "systemically ingrained" like your comment said. My issue with your comment.
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          Old October 14th, 2018 (8:28 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Vragon2.0 View Post
          Though you haven't shown a "systemically ingrained" like your comment said. My issue with your comment.
          I'm busy right now so I'll get to the rest later, just want to say that when I say "systematically ingrained" I'm talking about law enforcement, courts and the government. This next bit is conjecture on my part, but I am of the opinion that there's a feedback loop going on there.
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          Old October 14th, 2018 (8:30 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
            I'm busy right now so I'll get to the rest later, just want to say that when I say "systematically ingrained" I'm talking about law enforcement, courts and the government. This next bit is conjecture on my part, but I am of the opinion that there's a feedback loop going on there.
            Fair enough, thanks for clarifying.
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            Old October 14th, 2018 (11:59 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Vragon2.0 View Post
            snip
            Your whole comment initially rides on the idea that everyone who highlighted the trend were simply circle jerking.

            https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/circle-jerk (wiki only has it as the old group toss off definition, this was most relevant to its usage today)

            That isn't what has happened. People expressed their disdain at this happening again. Twocows pushed the idea this was a "one off". I provided evidence that it isn't some isolated incident. I could find scores more of these. Even more reports where people did not have the opportunity to film the exchange. Although the crux of your counter point to me was grammar policing which probably helped Gimmiepie reach his conclusion that you were being disingenuous.

            https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/23/us/san-francisco-lemonade-gourmonade/index.html

            https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/7/2/17527382/reggie-fields-racial-profiling-911-police

            https://qz.com/1274833/a-yale-university-woman-called-the-cops-on-a-black-student-for-taking-a-nap-and-woke-the-us-up-to-a-racist-truth/

            It's not rare. It's a common enough problem. Thankfully, a lot of the recent ones haven't resulted in the death of anyone. Thankfully we haven't had another Tamir Rice (another time the cops were called because of someone doing something normal whilst black) .
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            Old October 15th, 2018 (1:52 AM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Nah View Post
            I see the South is still up to its old muk
            Lmao, do you honestly believe this isn’t an American issue nationwide

            I thought Rodney King and Abner Louima would be two pretty memorable examples of police brutality, and neither of them happened anywhere in the South
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            Old October 15th, 2018 (3:05 AM).
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            Lmao, do you honestly believe this isn’t an American issue nationwide
            no

            just that it's more of an issue in the south/bible belt than just about any part of the country

            it was kind of a throwaway post anyway
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            Old October 15th, 2018 (5:43 AM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Hands View Post
              Your whole comment initially rides on the idea that everyone who highlighted the trend were simply circle jerking.
              Fair enough, I can take that.
              However, what I brought up to you specifically was that giving 5 examples and saying it wasn't rare wasn't proving that. Yeah, it's more cases, but if you wanted to show something wasn't rare, give something bigger. Sorta like what Gimmie gave.

              That grammar thing was just a joke, it's something I do in these posts. Yeah I can get if it isn't received well and whatnot, and I'm fine with that. Does it automatically make me disingenuous, I'd say no since I'm not opposed to this thread as a topic nor discussing about it.

              What I was saying, was that wasn't happening, or at least to a degree I thought was actually above everyone nodding and stuff. Was I overreacting, probably, could have I done better, over a night's sleep yes.
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              Old October 15th, 2018 (6:16 AM). Edited October 15th, 2018 by VisionofMilotic.
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              Quote:

              Ah, "systemically" hmm...that's a big word right there. I'd really like to see where you can point me to this "system" it's built on and is engrained into, because I'd like to see where you get the idea that someone's opinion of another person makes it "systemic" or whatnot.

              Oh, and I mean current, since you did say "systematically" ingrained in a country (that's made up of F****** 50 states as I keep saying). So don't give me some past slavery BS when we're talking about now. Did it happen, yes, Jim crow did as well. However, give me something on the books that's systemic now, else you aren't being systemic about it until you show how it is.
              This is clearly a rhetorical question to mock the validity of this concern. Still I will give you an example of racism on an institutional level.

              When my father was studying law there was a case that stuck with him of an African-American man in the state named Daryl Hunt who was accused as a teenager of abducting, raping and murdering a white woman. He was on trial for his life, and wrongfully convicted. His trial serves as a reminder of abuse on an institutional level, not just cherrypicking some random incident that only shows one person's opinion and blowing it out of proportion and holding up some stereotype like you have been saying.

              The truth behind the story is that the department had an unsolved case, and the system was rigged to incareate a person who was poor and black, in order to have a scapegoat.

              Hunt was initially approached by the police to give false witness testimony against another black man in the community who had a petty criminal record, fingering him for the crime. When Hunt maintained the truth, that he knew nothing about this murder or who was involved, Hunt found himself accused of the crime in retaliation by the police!

              The city itself was culpable from detectives to judges to the DA. Witnesses were intimidated not to testify, Jurors were also intimidated, evidence such as misindentification in police-line ups was witheld and lied about, and all manner of witnesses were paraded through the courtroom fom the mentally-Ill to crooks with long criminal wrap sheets and a Klu Klux clan grand dragon to identify Hunt. The media sensationalized and racially-charged the case until Hunt was condemned in this show trial.

              He was sent to jail for life, and spent 20 years abused while maintaining his innocence, until he was finally exonnerated by DNA evidence that led to the real murderer, who walked free for years due to the state's corruption, and as a result was able to hurt other people.

              The city of Winston-Salem settled a lawsuit with Daryl Hunt. This is important because it is an example of the failure of the community as a whole to protect his rights, not just an opinion by a couple of random individuals as you say or an example of something that happened back in the days of Jim Crow that is no longer relevant to you.

              Threads like this are important. They do not fail to offer to anything, its not sanctimonious and "dick-sucking" as you wrote. The question you posed, demanding to know how there is systemic racism is exactly why we need a thread like this, because it raises awareness that this the reality to begin with. The discussion has to begin somewhere before you can come up with a resolution.

              Daryl Hunt was literally killed by the Criminal Justice System. He suffered serious physical and emotional health problems after spending most of his life abused behind bars for a crime he never did, and after coming out of jail as a middle-aged man he committed suicide in despair. The money he received in restitution from the state was insufficient compared to what had been taken away from him, and he left it to charity.

              This system broke down, and to this day nobody involved with the framing of Daryl Hunt has been prosecuted. If you do not want to take my word for it you should watch the Sundance award-winning documentary the Trials of Daryl Hunt, that well documented the systematic scale of the racism.
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                #18    
              Old October 15th, 2018 (6:47 AM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Nah View Post
              no

              just that it's more of an issue in the south/bible belt than just about any part of the country

              it was kind of a throwaway post anyway
              that's strange, i really haven't seen that around here at all. do you have anything backing that up?

              ive lived in the south for quite a long time, and travel a lot around the northeast and went to high school in the west... honestly my experience has been one of consistently better racial relationships in the south than anywhere up north. it makes sense too, everyone was forced to deal with those problems historically much more completely than anywhere else

              but maybe theres something more empirical to show for that, who knows. i was watching a video the other day about Baltimore, and it explained how Freddie Gray was set up pretty much from birth to have no future or prospects as a person due to the systemically racist city he lived in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r6GBo_7UNc

              in general though the autocratic and authoritarian direction the government is heading in is not good for anyone, and I think the reason it affects blacks particularly bad is because of the history leading up to now. In current year the state is much more intently focused on class lines, flushing out undesirables, and other charades in legislation where politicians LARP about being "tough on crime" as they legalise ruining innocent lives.

              there's far too much reach and leeway the enforcement arm of the government has, and make no mistake that it's a very universal thing in the united states. most of this abuse stems from the overwhelmingly centralised federal government, who these days pretty much voluntarily leaves issues to the states at its sole discretion because it calls all the important shots
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                #19    
              Old October 15th, 2018 (11:47 AM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Alexander Nicholi View Post
              that's strange, i really haven't seen that around here at all. do you have anything backing that up?
              If by "anything backing that up" you mean some sort of data or an academic paper on the matter, no. It's just that it's not crazy to think that the part of the country that historically was the worst when it to came to race relations would still be the worst today given that humanity changes at a snail's pace. Jim Crow only ended about 50 years ago.

              Obviously not everyone or everywhere in the south is going to be like that, and you can certainly find places/people in other parts of the country that are like that. But my not unreasonable expectation would be that, in general/on average, there's more of it in that region.

              Personal experiences/anecdotes usually mean little by themselves anyway.
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                #20    
              Old October 15th, 2018 (11:04 PM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Vragon2.0 View Post
              Fair enough, I can take that.
              However, what I brought up to you specifically was that giving 5 examples and saying it wasn't rare wasn't proving that. Yeah, it's more cases, but if you wanted to show something wasn't rare, give something bigger. Sorta like what Gimmie gave.
              Operators wont log how many times a non crime was called in by a white person against a POC. As such, the best evidence we have to go on is the almost daily incidents caught on film.

              Quote:
              That grammar thing was just a joke, it's something I do in these posts. Yeah I can get if it isn't received well and whatnot, and I'm fine with that. Does it automatically make me disingenuous, I'd say no since I'm not opposed to this thread as a topic nor discussing about it.
              Whether its a joke or not, in a serious topic it comes across as bad faith arguing even if that's not your intent.

              Quote:
              What I was saying, was that wasn't happening, or at least to a degree I thought was actually above everyone nodding and stuff. Was I overreacting, probably, could have I done better, over a night's sleep yes.
              When its something as repugnant as racism, it is probably best to assume peoples anger over it is in good faith
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                #21    
              Old October 15th, 2018 (11:27 PM).
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              Alexander Nicholi Alexander Nicholi is offline
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Nah View Post
              If by "anything backing that up" you mean some sort of data or an academic paper on the matter, no. It's just that it's not crazy to think that the part of the country that historically was the worst when it to came to race relations would still be the worst today given that humanity changes at a snail's pace. Jim Crow only ended about 50 years ago.

              Obviously not everyone or everywhere in the south is going to be like that, and you can certainly find places/people in other parts of the country that are like that. But my not unreasonable expectation would be that, in general/on average, there's more of it in that region.

              Personal experiences/anecdotes usually mean little by themselves anyway.
              Except Jim Crow wasn't a Southern specialty at all. You have black codes to thank for why Baltimore is a huge mess, along with many other cities.

              You have provided no basis to believe current year South is more racist than anywhere else in the US, so I can't help but think this is just maligned bias that has no basis in reality. I've lived there, and lived in the North and the West too. My life experience runs to the contrary of that, but I'd like to be shown otherwise.
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                #22    
              Old October 16th, 2018 (12:46 AM).
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                VisionOfMilotic: Thank you for that little essay you gave us. In case you're wondering, I only see other people, not blacks, not latinos or other such meaningless classifications. We are all humans living under the same skies. And rest assured, the things happening in USA and elsewhere won't make me abandon these ideals no matter what. Trust me, being 'racist' is something that shouldn't exist at all.
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                  #23    
                Old October 16th, 2018 (3:14 AM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Alexander Nicholi View Post
                Except Jim Crow wasn't a Southern specialty at all. You have black codes to thank for why Baltimore is a huge mess, along with many other cities.

                You have provided no basis to believe current year South is more racist than anywhere else in the US, so I can't help but think this is just maligned bias that has no basis in reality. I've lived there, and lived in the North and the West too. My life experience runs to the contrary of that, but I'd like to be shown otherwise.
                You haven't exactly provided any basis for your claim either. Like I said before, one person's personal experience isn't really proof of anything. What if I said that I traveled the country too, but my experience was the opposite of yours?
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                  #24    
                Old October 23rd, 2018 (12:35 PM).
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                twocows twocows is offline
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                I wasn't trying to imply it doesn't happen, what I'm trying to say is I don't think it happens at a rate that I think would indicate some kind of widespread cultural problem.

                This is the problem with large numbers. As an example, 0.1% of 100,000 is 100, so if the population size is 100,000 and 0.1% of that population are awful human beings, you can find plenty of examples of people in that population being awful human beings without it being what I would consider a widespread issue.

                I'm not going to say for certain there is or isn't some greater problem with it because I don't have a dataset to go off of. This is just the conclusion I arrived at based on my personal experiences and the information available to me. Other people could reasonably be presented with the same information and come to a different conclusion because they've had different experiences; I don't think they'd be unreasonable for assuming maybe there was some bigger issue if their experiences led them to a different conclusion. Again, lacking specific, reliable data, it's all just supposition.
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                  #25    
                Old October 23rd, 2018 (4:35 PM).
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                  Add in the fact that video exists and the way the media loves to run theme articles about barbecue Becky and whoever and you can get coverage that makes it seem that there are lots of racists everywhere. The country is huge with a huge population and 10% of those people are guaranteed to be idiots and jerks.
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