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Unown Lord said:

Does she really seem unhappy to you? She comes across as resenting her sisters for leaving her, which is not to necessarily say that she would ditch the gym if they were permanently around. And I don't understand your logic about her not visiting Ash if she were happy at the gym.

As for the Delcatty episode, do you have a source for your claim? Here is what Dogasu had to say about it (and this is the guy who loves to point out discrepancies whenever possible):


And for heaven's sake, she is smiling at Togepi during this scene.

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Okay, you've read FoxTrot, right? You know the youngest member of the Fox family, Jason? The one who is essentially the black sheep of the family, or at least the kids due to being the more academic and geeky member. Well, one major difference from his older brother and sister is that, unlike them or, heck, even his peers, he actually LOVES school, and if anything hates Summer Vacation or any form of vacations, and he often gets depressed with finals mostly because he already took them way back in September. I was thinking that if Misty actually liked her job as Gym Leader, she would act EXACTLY like Jason Fox does regarding school (and usually does not interact with his classmates either). I can also cite Apu from The Simpsons regarding his job at the Quik-E-Mart, being a practical workaholic to the detriment of his own family.

And it's not just visiting Ash, it's also her actively delaying returning to the gym until Daisy essentially threatened her in A Real Cleffa-Hanger.

As far as the source, it's this thread here: https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=336960

Technically, the thread has more to do with Misty's Water Pok?mon Master, but her current gym position plays a key role in his argument.

And for the record, the guy who created the thread, DBZ_Fan, watched all the episodes including Hosos, with both English and Japanese versions, and has also not only done his own translations, but also compared notes with other people who did comparisons, including, I should add, Dogasu.

And in all fairness, even Dogasu misses some points. For one thing, he failed to notice or at least report that the indication that Misty literally became Gym Leader in Cerulean Blues (despite it conflicting with several episodes in both the English and Japanese version that she was indeed the Cerulean Gym Leader) was dub-added and that Joy only told her she can resume Gym Duties.

The Hoso specials aren't subbed, so I'd take DBZ_Fan's quote with a huge grain of salt considering that he doesn't know Japanese (I know him from BMGf). I see no reason to take him more seriously than Dogasu, who doesn't have any point to prove.

Misty wasn't actively delaying her return in the Cleffa episode; her sisters were just being too bossy and then the accident happened.

Now, I do agree that Misty should visit other regions, participate in tournaments and aspire to surpass Lorelei. But there is no reason why her gym duties should preclude her from doing just that. It is not as if there is a tournament every month, or that she needs to visit a region for more than a few days to catch a new Pokemon or too. As for surpassing Lorelei, I would think that her gym experience would go a long way towards that. If all her challengers were rookies, she wouldn't need a Mega Gyarados.

The debate is rather redundant, anyway. She is reasonably likely to visit Alola and benefit from it in some way, but she won't abandon her gym to stay there for a long time.

Unown Lord said:

The Hoso specials aren't subbed, so I'd take DBZ_Fan's quote with a huge grain of salt considering that he doesn't know Japanese (I know him from BMGf). I see no reason to take him more seriously than Dogasu, who doesn't have any point to prove.

Misty wasn't actively delaying her return in the Cleffa episode; her sisters were just being too bossy and then the accident happened.

Now, I do agree that Misty should visit other regions, participate in tournaments and aspire to surpass Lorelei. But there is no reason why her gym duties should preclude her from doing just that. It is not as if there is a tournament every month, or that she needs to visit a region for more than a few days to catch a new Pokemon or too. As for surpassing Lorelei, I would think that her gym experience would go a long way towards that. If all her challengers were rookies, she wouldn't need a Mega Gyarados.

The debate is rather redundant, anyway. She is reasonably likely to visit Alola and benefit from it in some way, but she won't abandon her gym to stay there for a long time.

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He may not know much Japanese, but he does have the help of people who DO know it, including Dogasu, Dephender, and I think he mentioned in another thread Adamant as well as Sushi (and you should definitely know them from Serebii and Bulbagarden), and he also made sure he cleared things with them and made sure the translations were accurate. He makes this much clear with this post here: https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=9027487#post9027487 He explicitly mentions that if people don't believe his claims, they can go ask Dogasu or Dephender. And for the record, Dogasu didn't mention that the dub erroneously implied that Misty was never a gym leader prior to Cerulean Blues when covering the comparison for that episode, either (which is despite the fact that a lot of episodes before then, INCLUDING Waterflowers of Cerulean City in both English and Japanese, had her explicitly referring to herself as the gym leader).

And in his various analyses, he made it pretty clear that Misty wasn't particularly happy with being at the gym (besides, I don't think her saying "Why do I feel like Cinderella" in one of the Hoso episodes indicates she's even feeling happy with the job).

Which episode is the Cinderella line from?

Again, I don't see any reason to take DBZ Fan's word over Dogasu's, even if the latter isn't infallible. He is the Japanese speaker with a website about dub errors/changes.

She was happy when she was talking to Togepi (facial expression requires no translation), happy when she explained to Max about accepting your siblings, and more to the point, extremely proud of herself in the latest two episodes. I don't see any reason to bemoan her fate.

While I didn't like how she left the show, she is the only character that has truly developed since leaving.

Unown Lord said:

Which episode is the Cinderella line from?

Again, I don't see any reason to take DBZ Fan's word over Dogasu's, even if the latter isn't infallible. He is the one with a website about dub errors/changes.

She was hapoy when she was talking to Togepi, happy when she explained to Max about accepting your siblings, and more to the point, extremely proud of herself in the latest two episodes. I don't see any reason to feel sorry for her.

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The episode was The Blue Badge of Courage. I think it's the one where she, Tracey, and Sakura are forced to make new Cascade Badges from scratch since her sisters clearly neglected to maintain their stock before they left.

And for the record, DBZ Fan in that whole Water Pok?mon Master essay covered the bit about Max regarding accepting her siblings, which actually if anything reinforced his point as she has yet to do so herself. Also, you DO realize he relied on Dogasu, Adamant, Sushi, and Dephender for Japanese translations when watching them, right? Even directly asking them as well whenever people question his statements of what is said? Sure, he may not have his own website dealing with Episode comparisons, but that doesn't mean you should dismiss his remarks, since he had to go through a lot of hoops to even get the information he had, including actually asking around with the people who watched Japanese raws and can understand them in case watching the Subs wasn't enough.

In fact, I'll directly quote his reference to the bit with Max.

- Context of last cameo appearance revealed how Misty still has unfinished business in damaged relationship with sisters as evidenced when talking to Max of wishing that they for once understand her not being able to stand up for herself when they are in question(although she also taught him how we cannot choose out family taking best out of situation, or something similar)being upset and frustrated over Daisy constantly rushing her back home. When she rather wanted to stay with group for longer delaying her return to home, expressing displease of not being able to leave gym even for shorter period of time due to unreliable sisters not having anyone to rely on. In case she wants to travel, catch new pokemon, enter tournaments, develop more effective strategies asnd pursue her dreams of becoming best water expert in world on more meaningful level.

Notice everyone how Misty in "Real Cleffa Hanger" express same disappointment over not having anyone to count on regarding gym and be present as substitute, in similar way she reacted in "Date with Delcatty" displaying how she feels about gym, substitute and not having much choice but to stay for now?

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I'll give you the last bit regarding these past two episodes, though. However, she still needs to get stronger outside the gym. Even the Original Series, not to mention DP, made repeatedly clear that being in the gym will ultimately hamper her abilities. And she may be proud of her abilities, but that DOESN'T mean she likes being at the gym. Again look at Apu and the Quik-E-Mart (where he actually led his then-recently married wife to believe that people don't work on Saturdays or Sundays in America which if anything got him into very serious hot water with his wife when Marge inadvertently exposed this as false. I think that episode was in I'm With Cupid).

This is getting tiresome, if to be honest. Four things and then I'm done:

1. The Cleffa episode was about Max and Misty accepting their sisters despite their flaws. It was not about Misty yearning to travel again (yes, she wanted more time with her friends, but not a journey). The dub didn't change any message.

2. DBZ Fan needs to back up his statements with direct quotes rather than paraphrasing.

3. The Cinderella line was said during a facepalm following Daisy sending Misty to pick up new badges. It was clearly a comical moment and the gym was a mess at the time.

4. I already said that she should participate in tournaments and catch some new Pokemon. Does that require traveling in other regions for an extended period? No.

Unown Lord said:

This is getting tiresome, if to be honest. Four things and then I'm done:

1. The Cleffa episode was about Max and Misty accepting their sisters despite their flaws. It was not about Misty yearning to travel again (yes, she wanted more time with her friends, but not a journey). The dub didn't change any message.

2. DBZ Fan needs to back up his statements with direct quotes rather than paraphrasing.

3. The Cinderella line was said during a facepalm following Daisy sending Misty to pick up new badges. It was clearly a comical moment and the gym was a mess at the time.

4. I already said that she should participate in tournaments and catch some new Pokemon. Does that require traveling in other regions for an extended period? No.

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This will be my final response to you, at least regarding this topic.

1. It's more than just the literal words, it's also the emotion delivered in them that indicates what the character was feeling when saying this, and he's most likely seen them with subtitles and actually heard the Japanese dialogue in any case (which he makes clear when talking about how much he's seen the episodes), and has repeatedly made clear that in cases that he can't access the subs or otherwise wants to double check, he makes sure to ask people like Dogasu, Adamant, Dephender, and Sushi, among others, to see if what he thinks it said was correct. So no, more likely than not, he actually does know what he's talking about regarding this. Sometimes, the dub doesn't actually deliver the emotions that were present originally, thus while the literal words are correct, the actual delivery was wrong. Take Movie 2, for instance, specifically the scene where Melody discovers the slab regarding the prophecy. Technically, the dub's translation was indeed accurate by having her say "what's this?" But the actual delivery was screwed up (in the original Japanese, her "what's this" was delivered more as "this seems familiar", while in the English dub, the way it was delivered made it sound as though she didn't even recognize the slab at all.). Even Dogasu in his redo of the movie comparison page noted this, and that wasn't originally present in his comparison.

2. He has backed his statements with direct quotes. He said "and I cite" when delivering the specific dialogue from the Japanese version. That is not a paraphrase at all, any more than Dogasu's translations are paraphrases. In fact, he literally says this phrase in one of the topics I showed you.

3. Maybe not, but Misty shaking her head in disappointment when pointing out there's not exactly enough people to cover the gym in the next Hoso featuring her, the Delcatty episode most certainly wasn't comical at all (and BTW, that bit was cut out from the dub).

4. Actually, she WOULD need to take extended leave from gyms to do tournaments and catch Pok?mon. If Fantina needed to do extended leaves for Pok?mon Contests just within Sinnoh (to such an extent that Ash had to see the gym closed twice during multiple passes through Hearthome City to cover the fact that at the time this occurred, the switcharound in Platinum hadn't even occurred yet), Misty most certainly would need to do so. Heck, just look at Claire when she appeared in Best Wishes during either Unova or Decolore Islands, which is definitely not Johto. Besides, I'm pretty sure that the tournaments bit would still need some qualifiers if the Contests, Showcases, and Leagues are of any indication.