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immigration topic

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So apparently a D.C. judge has ruled that the Trump administration has to uphold the DACA program

Apparently the decision was made back in late April, but the judge gave the federal government 90 days to make an appeal. The deadline is this month, so I guess that's why this webpage showed up today.

This will be yet another lower court decision that the Supreme Court will override. If one Pres can sign an EO to start a program that bypasses the law and Congress, then another Pres can sign an EO that ends that program.
 

Mewtwolover

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Cultures are defined by their differences; if you mix them together, you just end up with a dumbed down corporate monoculture where everyone is the same.
That's just what zionists want, dumbed down people wouldn't be smart enough to fight back so they can rule freely. See Kalergi plan and you'll understand what's going on and why there's so much multiculturalism.
 

ShinyUmbreon189

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My issue with immigration in America (where I live) is its populated enough and we got many people out of work as is and adding more only adds more problems and less solutions. Then Again Americas system is fucked up. People bitch and complain about no jobs but allow illegal immigration cause they deserve a better life? It makes no sense to me. You know Americas got a problem when we got an x amount of jobs but only an x amount are living wage and an x amount of citizens living off the system either cause they can't find work or they don't make enough (also x amount abuse the system cause it's free for them) then the x amount that can support themselves and their families and lastly x amount of illegals that work for less under the table taking away jobs from American citizens cause it's "cheaper". Another problem I have is people say we're treating hem unfairly when they get caught and we throw them in prison and deport them, why? In other countries prisons are a lot worse than Americas or they just kill you for invading their country. America isn't santa clause. We can't just give everybody what they want, we can't afford to even take care of our own!! But I already know liberals are gonna argue every point I just made cause they can't see the flaws in our system but are quick to blame Trump for these
Problems when they've been an issue long before the new puppet was elected. Honestly cracks me up.
 
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That's just what zionists want, dumbed down people wouldn't be smart enough to fight back so they can rule freely. See Kalergi plan and you'll understand what's going on and why there's so much multiculturalism.

Seriously? You want to blame the Jewish people?
 

ShinyUmbreon189

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Seriously? You want to blame the Jewish people?

correct me if I'm wrong, but more money more power right? Basically everything is controlled by banks, that's what I think he is trying to say lol and if you're familiar with this conspiracy theory then I assume you know what he Is trying to say. Not saying that I agree with his statement. I believe the banks control a lot of things yes, but this issue goes further than a group of the wealthiest people on the planet. And no, the illuminati doesn't exist it's just a mainstream term.
 
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Liberals have been pointing out the numerous flaws in your system since long before Trump appeared, he's just got a knack for making terrible things even worse. I think that while there's little you say I agree with there's a key point that you're right about and that is that the entire system the US is built on needs to change. If it did it'd be a lot easier to provide both immigrants and those already living there what they need in life.
 

Aduitt

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My views on this matter can be put incredibly simply:
- Illegal immigrants = Bugger off
- Legal immigrants = Please, feel free to stay as long as your VISA allows you to! (Unless you're an a**hat. Then you can feel free to leave)
- Refugees = Bit of a grey area for me. However; we should at least find a better way to assist citizens escaping their messed up countries. That I think we can all agree on.
 
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ShinyUmbreon189

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Liberals have been pointing out the numerous flaws in your system since long before Trump appeared, he's just got a knack for making terrible things even worse. I think that while there's little you say I agree with there's a key point that you're right about and that is that the entire system the US is built on needs to change. If it did it'd be a lot easier to provide both immigrants and those already living there what they need in life.

Well, would you believe me if I said Trump is just Americas new puppet? You really think a president has a say in how the system is operated? I'm curious. I just find it funny people blame a president for all of Americas problem because they got no one else to blame. Most of its just twisted words created by the media but I'm sure you know his by now, at least I'd hope so cause it's pretty damn obvious that it's part of an agenda. Just saying lol

The problem is every system has its flaws but some work better than others. A system that may work in a different country may not work in America due to populace, culture, and ones beliefs on how the system should work. Americas in a situation where it's so fucked we can't afford anything really but yet we keep generating more non existstent money and keep raising the debt so if you think about it money doesn't actually exist. I'm not gonna really go into detail but Americas been fucked and there's no changing it or fixing it. Period. Sadly the only solution is we adapt or we reset and I don't see us adapting anytime soon so...
 

Ivysaur

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As someone who lived illegally in a country for a year (and paid taxes and contributed to the welfare of the locals despite getting nothing in return) while keeping my language, culture, accent and whatever, I'm 100% fine if people come to my country and do the same. After all, immigrants put more money in than they take (and I know that from experience), plus they raise birthrates! I'd like to have people paying into my retirement fund when I become old, thank you very much, and I don't really much care where they were born.

Honestly, if you come to work and not cause trouble (which is what 99% of all immigrants do), I couldn't give a crap.
 
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Aduitt

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As someone who lived illegally in a country for a year (and paid taxes and contributed to the welfare of the locals despite getting nothing in return) while keeping my language, culture, accent and whatever, I'm 100% fine if people come to my country and do the same. After all, immigrants put more money in than they take (and I know that from experience), plus they raise birthrates! I'd like to have people paying into my retirement fund when I become old, thank you very much, and I don't really much care where they were born.

Honestly, if you come to work and not cause trouble (which is what 99% of all immigrants do), I couldn't give a crap.

You can only pay tax if you are either a citizen or are on a VISA.
From what you said. You were neither citizen nor on a VISA. Therefore; you did not pay tax.

Also, letting anyone and everyone into a country is never a good idea. We can look at places such as Norway for proof of this. Since they have made their borders near non-existent, their rape, murder, and general crime has statistically shot up. I am not saying that all immigrants are rapists or murderers. I am saying that there are those among them who are.
I am all for helping refugees. But if you come into a country illegally and it's for no good reason... Go away!

Note: Raising birth-rates from immigrants is not a good thing. Germany for instance, now has a higher Middle Eastern population than the Europeans who originally lived there. This is actually erasing German culture as we know it.
Why did this happen? Because the average Middle Eastern Family have 6 children. The average German Family have 1-2.
 
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You can only pay tax if you are either a citizen or are on a VISA.
From what you said. You were neither citizen nor on a VISA. Therefore; you did not pay tax.

Also, letting anyone and everyone into a country is never a good idea. We can look at places such as Norway for proof of this. Since they have made their borders near non-existent, their rape, murder, and general crime has statistically shot up. I am not saying that all immigrants are rapists or murderers. I am saying that there are those among them who are.
I am all for helping refugees. But if you come into a country illegally and it's for no good reason... Go away!

Note: Raising birth-rates from immigrants is not a good thing. Germany for instance, now has a higher Middle Eastern population than the Europeans who originally lived there. This is actually erasing German culture as we know it.
Why did this happen? Because the average Middle Eastern Family have 6 children. The average German Family have 1-2.

First of all, the information regarding Germany is incredibly incorrect.



According to both of these websites ethnic Germans account for over 80% of the total population of Germany, with the portion of the population having a European background being a further 93-95%, thus disproving your point. I also included the fertility rates of countries located in the middle east and in fact, none surpassed 6 children per woman. The average was closer to 3. Certain countries in that region, such as Iran, have fertility rates below the replacement rate of 2.1 children born per woman. You're way off.

You can't make such absurd claims without any sort of basis. That's not how debate works, evidence is necessary. Your bias and xenophobic opinion doesn't equate to actual fact.
 
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Aduitt

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Ok. I would first like to say that I made a gross overestimation on the Immigrant population in Germany. I will instead say that primarily Middle Eastern Immigrants in Germany have potential to become a majority of the populous in Germany in the Next 50-70 years.
My Bad. I apologise for the grossly overestimated statistic.

I would like to just post some references to some sources that differ from yours. I'm not going to continue posting on this thread after this as I would like this to remain civil. Me leaving is the best way to achieve that.

Muslim Population Growth In Germany:
- http://www.pewforum.org/essay/the-growth-of-germanys-muslim-population/

Decline of German Population Growth:
- https://www.dw.com/en/record-number-of-single-households-in-germany/a-16095252
- http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Marriage_and_divorce_statistics

Immigrant Population Growth In Germany:
- https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-foreign-population-reaches-record-106-million/a-43353320

Note:
- I do not see how your first reference contributes to this discussion. It does not deny what I have said. It just points out the obvious.
- I do not see how your second reference contributes to this discussion. It's statistics are that of all of Europe. I am talking about Germany. Not the entire European union.
- This one is fair enough. The fertility rates I proposed were outlandish. This proves me wrong, rightly!
- I cannot find your 90%-95% of all Germans having European decent in your statistics. Did you forget to reference a link or something?
- Xenophobe... Really? I said this plain and clear in a previous comment: "If you came here illegally, Get Out! If you came here legally, feel free to stay! If your a refugee, we will do our best to help". How can you say I am xenophobic when I have stated my views as the exact opposite?

Have a good day!
 
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Note:
- I do not see how your first reference contributes to this discussion. It does not deny what I have said. It just points out the obvious.

The first link relates to the demography of Germany and it includes the racial composition in the country and clearly states that people of middle eastern origin are by no means a majority in Germany. Which is what you wrongly stated and was why it was included.

- I do not see how your second reference contributes to this discussion. It's statistics are that of all of Europe. I am talking about Germany. Not the entire European union.

You obviously didn't properly read the links that I posted at all. In the second link it says that people in Germany that are from countries in the European Unions account for 90% of the country's population. It wasn't referring to the entire European union, it just stated that people from those EU countries constitute a majority of the German populous. (This includes ethnic Germans as well because Germany itself is a part of the European Union.)

- I cannot find your 90%-95% of all Germans having European decent in your statistics. Did you forget to reference a link or something?

Again, I think you need to go over the websites that I linked. I copy and pasted from the second link where the data is clearly shown to simplify things.
Spoiler:


- Xenophobe... Really? I said this plain and clear in a previous comment: "If you came here illegally, Get Out! If you came here legally, feel free to stay! If your a refugee, we will do our best to help". How can you say I am xenophobic when I have stated my views as the exact opposite?

Perhaps I shouldn't have referred to you as a xenophobe. I do apologize. However, you seem to view immigration as a sort of threat and I'm pointing out the fact that a lot of the things that you said in your post may come across as rather xenophobic to certain individuals. May I add that none of the links you posted provide any information about illegal immigration which you seem to take issue with. For instance, the last link you posted involves the demographics of legal immigrants to Germany, not illegal ones. I don't understand your reasoning behind linking it? What's the problem with these immigrants coming to Germany legally? As you said, you see no issue with legal immigration. I never disputed the fact that Germany and other European countries receive a lot of immigrants, I just pointed out that your estimates were grossly inaccurate and seemed to be heavily biased.

I'm not trying to argue back and forth or derail the subject at hand, I'm just attempting to clarify some things for you in a civil manner and address some of the issues I had with your initial post. You have a lovely day/night as well.
 
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Ivysaur

Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
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You can only pay tax if you are either a citizen or are on a VISA.
From what you said. You were neither citizen nor on a VISA. Therefore; you did not pay tax.

Except I did pay taxes: 21% of everything I purchased went to the government via VAT (which is a tax). And my payroll got money deducted to pay for healthcare and pensions (which I was never going to use anyway). So I did pay a good amount of tax, thank you very much. About 1,000? in a year, total, on a monthly salary of 1,200?.

Also, letting anyone and everyone into a country is never a good idea. We can look at places such as Norway for proof of this. Since they have made their borders near non-existent, their rape, murder, and general crime has statistically shot up.

It's funny, because it's not shooting up, actually it's been falling.

In general, Norway has seen a significant decline in crime the latest years. There was a 4.3 percent decrease from 2015-2016, and a decline of as much as 9.6 percent from 2014. If population growth is factored in, this level of reported offences is by far the lowest in the 24 years of these statistics.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Norway

I will instead say that primarily Middle Eastern Immigrants in Germany have potential to become a majority of the populous in Germany in the Next 50-70 years.

Nah, that's impossible, unless they keep coming in a million per yer (which is no longer happening), having ridiculous fertility rates (which is not happening, and in fact, second generation immigrants tend to have fertility rates closer to the native's) and Germans stop having babies altogether. Otherwise, by 50 years, the descendants of former immigrants (which by then will be Germans) will have the same 0-2 kids as the locals, keeping their share stable at best.
 
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Aduitt

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The first link relates to the demography of Germany and it includes the racial composition in the country and clearly states that people of middle eastern origin are by no means a majority in Germany. Which is what you wrongly stated and was why it was included.



You obviously didn't properly read the links that I posted at all. In the second link it says that people in Germany that are from countries in the European Unions account for 90% of the country's population. It wasn't referring to the entire European union, it just stated that people from those EU countries constitute a majority of the German populous. (This includes ethnic Germans as well because Germany itself is a part of the European Union.)



Again, I think you need to go over the websites that I linked. I copy and pasted from the second link where the data is clearly shown to simplify things.
Spoiler:




Perhaps I shouldn't have referred to you as a xenophobe. I do apologize. However, you seem to view immigration as a sort of threat and I'm pointing out the fact that a lot of the things that you said in your post may come across as rather xenophobic to certain individuals. May I add that none of the links you posted provide any information about illegal immigration which you seem to take issue with. For instance, the last link you posted involves the demographics of legal immigrants to Germany, not illegal ones. I don't understand your reasoning behind linking it? What's the problem with these immigrants coming to Germany legally? As you said, you see no issue with legal immigration. I never disputed the fact that Germany and other European countries receive a lot of immigrants, I just pointed out that your estimates were grossly inaccurate and seemed to be heavily biased.

I'm not trying to argue back and forth or derail the subject at hand, I'm just attempting to clarify some things for you in a civil manner and address some of the issues I had with your initial post. You have a lovely day/night as well.

I will try to explain this briefly.
I don't believe you or anyone on here will make the debate uncivilized. I believe I will.
I tend to get far too worked up when politics is involved, so I try to end the conversation before I go to far.
You have been more than polite. Thank you!

Oh, and to answer your questions, I showed statistics that included both Illegal and Legal Immigrants for more a more diverse set of statistics. I believe I used the statistics when mentioning the growth of the Immigrant populous in Germany, no? Both parties: Illegal and not contribute to this.

As for the links I was confused about. Sorry! I only skimmed over it, so I must have misread the statistics intent.

Have a good night!
 

Nah

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Trev

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Also we should all be aware when reading crime stats from other countries that they have different definitions for crime than the U.S. (Norway, for example, has a broader definition of ?rape?). Take crime stats with a grain of salt.
 
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Immigration is great for the people immigrating, for the people already there there's not much to benefit from. Some business owners can find cheap labor, but for the most part it's not great to ruin an economy because ___ country can't get their sh*t together. Just my opinion..
 

Mewtwolover

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In general, Norway has seen a significant decline in crime the latest years. There was a 4.3 percent decrease from 2015-2016, and a decline of as much as 9.6 percent from 2014. If population growth is factored in, this level of reported offences is by far the lowest in the 24 years of these statistics.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Norway
See what's happening in Sweden, too lax immigration policy has lead to disaster there.
 
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