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[Dubbed] Trouble with the pokemon anime

Sloxy

Sloxy

Mon Amour
221
Posts
6
Years
To start this off, this will need some context.

I had seen many different pokemon episodes from various regions, and actually played all the games up to XY. So I decided that I would watch all of the episodes in one go, in which I did. Almost. While watching the series, I actually became a big advanceshipper and was very excited to watch the advance generations episodes. And I did. Now I remember I loved it so much, and I was such an advanceshipper that by the time Ash reached the league, I had realised that that the adventure with may is coming to a close. I literally stopped watching the series for a while, just because I didn't want to accept the fact that it was going to end and they would seperate. But eventually I continued watching it, and then I found out about battle frontier, and I was extremely happy. But once I had finished it, I got what I guess people call "Anime depression" where all I could think of was pokemon and how battle frontier ended, and the fact that may and ash would depart. I would watch ashxmay, advanceshipping videos ect. And eventually I got over it, and continued with the series. I went through DP, without really noticing the awesomeness in it, now that I look back on it. Then I watched BW, without noticing the shitiness of it, it was just more content to watch. Once BW had ended, I started XY and for some reason I stopped watching pokemon completely half way through it. Now almost 2 years later I think, I return and finished watching it. And wow, I cannot explain my feelings towards it and how perfect it was (To me). I loved every aspect of it, there was not a single thing that I hated about the XY series. But when I finished it, the anime depression kicked in. Because I simply couldn't have accepted the greatness coming to an end, especially with ash-greninja, amourshipping and the amazing ending. I could literally care less about ash losing the league, because it was predictable and was an epic battle. I completely changed, and am now a big amourshipper, like the kiss, I just cant get over it. I actually wanted to watch the XY series, then go back to AG. But after watching XY i dont know if I want to or if I want to continue onto Sun and Moon. I dont know if I want to, because I might just end up being disappointed, and not as impressed. In XY you have the whle ash-greninja basically mega evolution with such a strong bond, and that doesn't happen in the other series and also that as mentioned earlier I was an advanceshipper which was another reason why I wanted to go back, but dont anymore. In XY serena actually shows affection towards ash, while in other series the other female companions dont and that was an aspect of XY I found really enjoyable and cringe. In XY Ash is the mature one in the group and constantly impacts the others, while in earlier stages he was merely the kid of the group instead of the leader. Another reason why I dont feel like going forward to SM is because of the art style. The art style of XY just added onto how cool ash was, unlike SM where he looks 7. And I pray that serena does not return in SM but rather in a later series where it will look more appropriate, because if I saw serena now in SM It would just be plain out wierd.

So my question here is, should I go back to watch the older series and continue onto SM? I am having really mixed feelings about this decision.

Thank you for reading my long text, and respect my opinion on the XY series, as I will respect yours.
 
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CodeHelmet

CodeHelmet

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3,375
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6
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Sloxy said:
To start this off, this will need some context.

I had seen many different pokemon episodes from various regions, and actually played all the games up to XY. So I decided that I would watch all of the episodes in one go, in which I did. Almost. While watching the series, I actually became a big advanceshipper and was very excited to watch the advance generations episodes. And I did. Now I remember I loved it so much, and I was such an advanceshipper that by the time Ash reached the league, I had realised that that the adventure with may is coming to a close. I literally stopped watching the series for a while, just because I didn't want to accept the fact that it was going to end and they would seperate. But eventually I continued watching it, and then I found out about battle frontier, and I was extremely happy. But once I had finished it, I got what I guess people call "Anime depression" where all I could think of was pokemon and how battle frontier ended, and the fact that may and ash would depart. I would watch ashxmay, advanceshipping videos ect. And eventually I got over it, and continued with the series. I went through DP, without really noticing the awesomeness in it, now that I look back on it. Then I watched BW, without noticing the mukiness of it, it was just more content to watch. Once BW had ended, I started XY and for some reason I stopped watching pokemon completely half way through it. Now almost 2 years later I think, I return and finished watching it. And wow, I cannot explain my feelings towards it and how perfect it was (To me). I loved every aspect of it, there was not a single thing that I hated about the XY series. But when I finished it, the anime depression kicked in. Because I simply couldn't have accepted the greatness coming to an end, especially with ash-greninja, amourshipping and the amazing ending. I could literally care less about ash losing the league, because it was predictable and was an epic battle. I completely changed, and am now a big amourshipper, like the kiss, I just cant get over it. I actually wanted to watch the XY series, then go back to AG. But after watching XY i dont know if I want to or if I want to continue onto Sun and Moon. I dont know if I want to, because I might just end up being disappointed, and not as impressed. In XY you have the whle ash-greninja basically mega evolution with such a strong bond, and that doesn't happen in the other series and also that as mentioned earlier I was an advanceshipper which was another reason why I wanted to go back, but dont anymore. In XY serena actually shows affection towards ash, while in other series the other female companions dont and that was an aspect of XY I found really enjoyable and cringe. In XY Ash is the mature one in the group and constantly impacts the others, while in earlier stages he was merely the kid of the group instead of the leader. Another reason why I dont feel like going forward to SM is because of the art style. The art style of XY just added onto how cool ash was, unlike SM where he looks 7. And I pray that serena does not return in SM but rather in a later series where it will look more appropriate, because if I saw serena now in SM It would just be plain out wierd.

So my question here is, should I go back to watch the older series and continue onto SM? I am having really mixed feelings about this decision.

Thank you for reading my long text, and respect my opinion on the XY series, as I will respect yours.
Click to expand...

The older series have their own unique charm. Also DP was arguably one of the better series so I advise you give it another go at watching it. Paul is arguably Ash?s greatest rival, HeartGold/SoulSilver promotion with Lyra and Khoury mini-arc and Dawn is one of the best Female leads the Franchise has had. Not only do I advise rewatching the Anime again but I?d try and do so in the Japanese dub(with subs). You?d come to find that the Japanese version is leaps and bounds better, especially post 4Kids. A perfect example of why the native dub is better is the Eevee Brothers Episode. Misty calls Jessie an ?Old Lady? and Jessie responds by calling her ?Flat Brat Girl?. That is referencing the Beauty Contest Episode earlier in the season and the English dub is tame by comparison since it?s ?Old Hag? and ?Puny Little Punk? respectively(not to mention the Beauty Contest Episode is edited/censored as well).

Avoid Sun&Moon if you can. It?s utter garbage as far as I?m concerned since it?s nothing like the games.
 
Sloxy

Sloxy

Mon Amour
221
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6
Years
CodeHelmet,

The thing is I dont mind watching subs, but just the reason I genuinely prefer the dubs is because I simply cant focus on reading and the anime at the same time. This was while I was watching the narcos series, and I seriously had trouble reading the subtitles, while at the same time paying attention to what is going on, but I guess you get use to it over time.

Well there's no loss in trying, thanks for the suggestion!
 
CodeHelmet

CodeHelmet

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Sloxy said:
CodeHelmet,

The thing is I dont mind watching subs, but just the reason I genuinely prefer the dubs is because I simply cant focus on reading and the anime at the same time. This was while I was watching the narcos series, and I seriously had trouble reading the subtitles, while at the same time paying attention to what is going on, but I guess you get use to it over time.

Well there's no loss in trying, thanks for the suggestion!
Click to expand...

No harm in rewatching the English dub but the Japanese dub has the series OST and therefore gives a different take or impression on any given Episode. An example is the Poketch Episode in DP(DP 10 if memory serves) where in the Japanese dub, you hear Dawn?s theme(Kimi no soba de or By your side) when she is battling Team Rocket. You don?t hear that in the English dub and it?s differences like that that give the viewer a completely different take on the character or Episode. Even the music when Dawn is talking to Kenny is different in the Japanese dub(gives more of a Penguinshipping feel at times too).

Also while the Art Style change in SM is a turnoff for a lot of people, that?s the least of the series problems as far as I?m concerned. At its core, SM is flawed and beyond repair or redemption. I suppose if there are any Episodes worth watching, it would be the Kanto Episodes(Sm42&43). At least you?ll get a dose of Generation 1 nostalgia and solid Gym battles.
 

weedle_mchairybug

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CodeHelmet said:
No harm in rewatching the English dub but the Japanese dub has the series OST and therefore gives a different take or impression on any given Episode. An example is the Poketch Episode in DP(DP 10 if memory serves) where in the Japanese dub, you hear Dawn?s theme(Kimi no soba de or By your side) when she is battling Team Rocket. You don?t hear that in the English dub and it?s differences like that that give the viewer a completely different take on the character or Episode. Even the music when Dawn is talking to Kenny is different in the Japanese dub(gives more of a Penguinshipping feel at times too).

Also while the Art Style change in SM is a turnoff for a lot of people, that?s the least of the series problems as far as I?m concerned. At its core, SM is flawed and beyond repair or redemption. I suppose if there are any Episodes worth watching, it would be the Kanto Episodes(Sm42&43). At least you?ll get a dose of Generation 1 nostalgia and solid Gym battles.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I can watch the Japanese version since... well, I'll be honest, I may know some Japanese, but not NEARLY enough to save my skin. It's mostly Hiragana and Katakana (also Romanji, but that's not an official Japanese written language), maybe a few Kanji, but the Kanji's the problem I have.

As for your last point, I'd like to expand on the Kanto episodes bit by stating that those episodes fully restored the honor of Gym Leaders after such had been stolen from them starting with AG when the writers thought it was a "good idea" to basically depict the Hoenn Gym Leaders by and large as basically being Jessie and James clones in terms of competency (or lack thereof) by having them lose constantly to rookies (what makes the decision even MORE tasteless is that it came about shortly after Misty was forced off the show to run Cerulean Gym thanks to her sisters basically ditching it for a cruise, which comes across as extremely disrespectful towards Misty's entire role in the series, and her goals and skills, since it essentially implied that Misty's basically going to stagnate and act like a punching bag to rookie trainers, or certainly rookie Pok?mon.). Unova was arguably even worse in that regard thanks to Ash being depicted as an idiot, even by his usual standards, in that series. Gym Leaders might not be as strong as the Elite 4, but they're still supposed to have the reputation of being very tough trainers to beat, so having them lose easily to rookies leaves a foul taste in one's mouth. Aside from that, as well as Misty and Brock not only coming back temporarily, but also their hinting in 043 that they'll be coming to Alola soon, I also like the episodes for the fact that they actually GAVE Ash an opportunity to pursue his original goal of becoming a Pok?mon Master after XY and the nature of S&M pretty much stole Ash's goal from him by forcing him into a school-based environment. Hopefully this time around, they've learned from Kalos and actually will ALLOW Ash to win the league this time around. In fact, Misty and Brock potentially returning again and Ash potentially winning the league is the ONLY reason I'm even putting up with Sun and Moon, a series which I utterly hate due to them changing the formula far beyond what was truly necessary (say what you will about Best Wishes and its crippling flaws, at least it allowed Ash to actually pursue his goal rather than forced him into a school environment that he had no real need for in prior instances the subject was brought up). The change in art style certainly doesn't help matters either. Yes, it makes things more fluid, but couldn't they make it just a BIT more like the old style?
 
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CodeHelmet

CodeHelmet

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weedle_mchairybug said:
I'm not sure I can watch the Japanese version since... well, I'll be honest, I may know some Japanese, but not NEARLY enough to save my skin. It's mostly Hiragana and Katakana (also Romanji, but that's not an official Japanese written language), maybe a few Kanji, but the Kanji's the problem I have.

As for your last point, I'd like to expand on the Kanto episodes bit by stating that those episodes fully restored the honor of Gym Leaders after such had been stolen from them starting with AG when the writers thought it was a "good idea" to basically depict the Hoenn Gym Leaders by and large as basically being Jessie and James clones in terms of competency (or lack thereof) by having them lose constantly to rookies (what makes the decision even MORE tasteless is that it came about shortly after Misty was forced off the show to run Cerulean Gym thanks to her sisters basically ditching it for a cruise, which comes across as extremely disrespectful towards Misty's entire role in the series, and her goals and skills, since it essentially implied that Misty's basically going to stagnate and act like a punching bag to rookie trainers, or certainly rookie Pok?mon.). Unova was arguably even worse in that regard thanks to Ash being depicted as an idiot, even by his usual standards, in that series. Gym Leaders might not be as strong as the Elite 4, but they're still supposed to have the reputation of being very tough trainers to beat, so having them lose easily to rookies leaves a foul taste in one's mouth. Aside from that, as well as Misty and Brock not only coming back temporarily, but also their hinting in 043 that they'll be coming to Alola soon, I also like the episodes for the fact that they actually GAVE Ash an opportunity to pursue his original goal of becoming a Pok?mon Master after XY and the nature of S&M pretty much stole Ash's goal from him by forcing him into a school-based environment. Hopefully this time around, they've learned from Kalos and actually will ALLOW Ash to win the league this time around. In fact, Misty and Brock potentially returning again and Ash potentially winning the league is the ONLY reason I'm even putting up with Sun and Moon, a series which I utterly hate due to them changing the formula far beyond what was truly necessary (say what you will about Best Wishes and its crippling flaws, at least it allowed Ash to actually pursue his goal rather than forced him into a school environment that he had no real need for in prior instances the subject was brought up). The change in art style certainly doesn't help matters either. Yes, it makes things more fluid, but couldn't they make it just a BIT more like the old style?
Click to expand...

My problem with SM isn?t that they changed the formula(change can be good if done right) but more so the fact that the Anime is so different than the games. There are no Trial Captains(hence everyone but Lillie has no purpose or goal that passes the smell test), the school setting destroys the sense of ?progression? by removing the traveling aspect(since when Ash finished the Akala Trial, rather than going to the next island, they go back to Melemele. Who does that in the games?) and by having 5 companions as opposed to the traditional 2 or 3, the show basically ignores all of them unless it?s their day in the spotlight(even Lillie suffers from this).

Black and White, despite the fact I hate their treatment of Iris, tries to stay true to the games and therefore why I can?t place it in last place anymore. Even their treatment of Serena in XY has caused me to bump it down to 2nd in my Top Series topic. TLDR: Their treatment of companions, notably Female ones, has been piss poor since frankly AG but even more so since BW where they don?t even get full Pokemon teams.
 

weedle_mchairybug

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CodeHelmet said:
My problem with SM isn?t that they changed the formula(change can be good if done right) but more so the fact that the Anime is so different than the games. There are no Trial Captains(hence everyone but Lillie has no purpose or goal that passes the smell test), the school setting destroys the sense of ?progression? by removing the traveling aspect(since when Ash finished the Akala Trial, rather than going to the next island, they go back to Melemele. Who does that in the games?) and by having 5 companions as opposed to the traditional 2 or 3, the show basically ignores all of them unless it?s their day in the spotlight(even Lillie suffers from this).

Black and White, despite the fact I hate their treatment of Iris, tries to stay true to the games and therefore why I can?t place it in last place anymore. Even their treatment of Serena in XY has caused me to bump it down to 2nd in my Top Series topic. TLDR: Their treatment of companions, notably Female ones, has been piss poor since frankly AG but even more so since BW where they don?t even get full Pokemon teams.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no kidding. Maybe if Ash were to, I don't know, oversee the development of the Alola league per the request of whoever headed the Kalos League, either due to winning the Kalos league, or otherwise due to being impressed on how he quelled the Team Flare threat, while it would have been a change in formula, it would have been one that actually AIDED Ash in his development and thus would have actually meant something. I'm hesitant to firmly state it's the worst, since they are going to bring about the Alola league in the future (and if Ash wins that, that would actually redeem the series. Even moreso if they manage to actually GET Misty to resume her Water Pok?mon Master goal, the goal she wanted to pursue, rather than being restrained at the gym by her sisters), but I AM coming very close to saying it is that with what's been shown. Plus, since they finished the whole Lusamine arc early thanks to their finishing it immediately after the whole Kanto revisit, we really don't have much to fall back on. On the one hand, that's good news, since that at least allows for more time for them to announce Misty and Brock's arrival in Alola (and we're pretty sure they'll at the very least make a visit to Alola since Ash made them promise to do so in Episode 43 of Sun and Moon). On the other, it's kind of hard to bother doing any focus on the series when there's literally nothing else they can do to tide things over. Seriously, at least with Johto's infamous mid-season, we at least had the next gym to look forward to, we've got nothing right now, especially when I'm not even sure when they'll cover the league. Doesn't help matters much that Nintendo Direct has not given any indications on Generation VIII yet, and since we already know they've pretty much scraped the bottom of the barrel regarding Event Pok?mon due to Zeraroma's debut in M21, it's getting a bit irritating that they haven't announced something by now, especially not when there's literally nothing else in Generation VII to cover. They haven't even unveiled any extra Pok?mon for the movie yet that teased at Gen VIII a'la Magearna back in M19. Seriously, can't they unveil SOMETHING Gen VIII related by now?
 

Hikamaru

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weedle_mchairybug said:
Yeah, no kidding. Maybe if Ash were to, I don't know, oversee the development of the Alola league per the request of whoever headed the Kalos League, either due to winning the Kalos league, or otherwise due to being impressed on how he quelled the Team Flare threat, while it would have been a change in formula, it would have been one that actually AIDED Ash in his development and thus would have actually meant something. I'm hesitant to firmly state it's the worst, since they are going to bring about the Alola league in the future (and if Ash wins that, that would actually redeem the series. Even moreso if they manage to actually GET Misty to resume her Water Pok?mon Master goal, the goal she wanted to pursue, rather than being restrained at the gym by her sisters), but I AM coming very close to saying it is that with what's been shown. Plus, since they finished the whole Lusamine arc early thanks to their finishing it immediately after the whole Kanto revisit, we really don't have much to fall back on. On the one hand, that's good news, since that at least allows for more time for them to announce Misty and Brock's arrival in Alola (and we're pretty sure they'll at the very least make a visit to Alola since Ash made them promise to do so in Episode 43 of Sun and Moon). On the other, it's kind of hard to bother doing any focus on the series when there's literally nothing else they can do to tide things over. Seriously, at least with Johto's infamous mid-season, we at least had the next gym to look forward to, we've got nothing right now, especially when I'm not even sure when they'll cover the league. Doesn't help matters much that Nintendo Direct has not given any indications on Generation VIII yet, and since we already know they've pretty much scraped the bottom of the barrel regarding Event Pok?mon due to Zeraroma's debut in M21, it's getting a bit irritating that they haven't announced something by now, especially not when there's literally nothing else in Generation VII to cover. They haven't even unveiled any extra Pok?mon for the movie yet that teased at Gen VIII a'la Magearna back in M19. Seriously, can't they unveil SOMETHING Gen VIII related by now?
Click to expand...

I was speaking to users on Serebii and I agreed with them that Ash winning the Alola League actually won't feel deserved, since Alola has mainly had Ash goofing off and being lazy, and a notable lack of battles means his Alola team still feels weak and will lack the experience his other Pokemon have. Since I bet he won't even catch a sixth Pokemon this time around, he will probably have to use reserves in the Alola League unless if the writers decide to make a stupid decision to force a last-minute capture that will have absolutely no development.

If Ash wins the League in a region where he's been goofing off and doing nothing, the win won't feel earned but forced and half-assed. That's why I believe the League will suck, because the lack of battles in SM as a whole will make the League not as exciting. The writers are clearly in a lose-lose situation, where the fans won't be happy and may quit the anime if Ash gets a League win with absolutely no effort.
 
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weedle_mchairybug

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Hikamaru said:
I was speaking to users on Serebii and I agreed with them that Ash winning the Alola League actually won't feel deserved, since Alola has mainly had Ash goofing off and being lazy, and a notable lack of battles means his Alola team still feels weak and will lack the experience his other Pokemon have. Since I bet he won't even catch a sixth Pokemon this time around, he will probably have to use reserves in the Alola League unless if the writers decide to make a stupid decision to force a last-minute capture that will have absolutely no development.

If Ash wins the League in a region where he's been goofing off and doing nothing, the win won't feel earned but forced and half-assed. That's why I believe the League will suck, because the lack of battles in SM as a whole will make the League not as exciting. The writers are clearly in a lose-lose situation, where the fans won't be happy and may quit the anime if Ash gets a League win with absolutely no effort.
Click to expand...

I suppose you've got a point there. Unfortunately, if he loses the league, it would come across as even WORSE than the prior times he got cheated out of a league victory, heck, worse than even the times he lost Hoenn and Unova (and I consider those two the worst leagues he's ever had up to now since he never even advanced as a trainer, either staying stagnate in terms of rank [AG], or literally doing worse than before [BW]). Seriously, Alola's literally starting up a league at this time, having Ash basically bomb the league when it's literally just starting out would make Ash look even MORE like a screw-up than he was in Unova or Hoenn. Sure, I personally would prefer a win that's actually earned, but after constantly having his winning or making any significant advances to his goal taken away from him, even when he actually does make strides in effort, many times having his victory stolen from him even when he DOES advance in rank, I'm willing to take whatever I can get, especially considering that far too many times, he's been forced to lose leagues for no real reason (with Kalos basically coming to a head when they literally had no reason to actually have Ash lose that time, especially when there WAS no gyms to be had in Alola). Heck, even the few genuine accomplishments he does get, like Orange Islands or Battle Frontier, they barely even count them, not to mention in the latter case, they literally treated his win there like a complete joke when Gary, who was supposed to be retired, basically beat him and Pikachu flat on their butts (and don't get me started on the crappy way Pikachu lost to Paul in their little rematch. He should have lost to Torterra, NOT to Ursaring who was a rookie, being caught by Paul just a little ways into DP, especially not when Paul basically lost to Brandon earlier, you know the same guy that Pikachu handed his Regice its own butt?). I could forgive Gary beating Ash after the Orange League since at least he was still an active Pok?mon Trainer and thus we can reasonably assume he was still training his Pok?mon. Him beating Ash during the Battle Frontier was just pointless and unnecessary, especially when Gary's supposed to be retired. All I ask at this point is for Ash to actually be allowed ONE League win that actually STICKS, no more screwing him and his chances over constantly. I don't give a care if that means the anime ends. I've had enough of Ash having his victory and chances at actually succeeding in his goal stolen from him at the last minute, so any League win is good at this point, even if it's something that doesn't feel earned. That's how desperate I am to see him win right now. They could have let Ash win Kalos and avoided that exact problem, but no, they insisted on the status quo despite literally having no real reason to enforce it, especially after the huge formula shakeup Generation VII did. You give Ash a goal, any character a goal for that matter, you might as well make sure he succeeds in that goal, no ifs, ands or buts.
 
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Sloxy

Sloxy

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Black and White said:
But do you really feel like Serena needed a full team? In my opinion, I think that having three pokemon was completely fine for her, she doesnt need any more or else there couldnt be enough focus for each one and their relationship.
Click to expand...
 
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CodeHelmet

CodeHelmet

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Sloxy said:
But do you really feel like Serena needed a full team? In my opinion, I think that having three pokemon was completely fine for her, she doesnt need any more or else there couldnt be enough focus for each one and their relationship.
Click to expand...

My beef with Serena had more to do with the fact that it took them 38 Episodes to give her a Goal. Such a slow start that she held the record(until SM came along) for the longest stretch before getting a 2nd Pokemon at 42 Episodes(Gets Fennekin in XY04 and Pancham in XY46). However, while I understand her goal was non-battling related, it still rubs me the wrong way that she couldn?t fill out her roster. I mean a Rhyhorn would have made common sense, a Pikachu(Granted those are rare but you can understand why... *cough Ash cough* The Pikachu movie Episode was a prime opportunity) and then a random Pokemon like say Munchlax(because it liked her Pokepuffs). She could have rotated her Pokemon as Performers, just like May and Dawn did when it came to Contests.

Iris? goal was just like Misty?s and yet she didn?t even get a full roster for the entire series. To make matters worse, let?s not give her a 2nd Dragon Type until 89 Episodes in. The fact she?s a Gym Leader in White and the Champion in BW2 makes the sheer neglect all the more disrespectful. Yet Iris and Serena?s treatment is leaps and bounds better than what the current Female cast has gotten so far through 72 Episodes: 1 Capture and 1 Evolution.
 
Sloxy

Sloxy

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I dont know, for me I didn't really mind if she got a goal late or not, In the beginning she started her journey just to see ash, that was her plan. She did not think of after but only of meeting her childhood crush. I feel that her taking that long to choose a goal was just her practically starting out after she had met ash, but then got invited to go along with them, my opinion, was that she just went along to support and motivate ash in his gym battles (for obvious reasons) and then once at the camp, realised she had no goal, and that's when it set in the motion of her getting a goal, after realising all her other companions already had their own.
 
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