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  #1    
Old March 19th, 2017 (9:01 PM).
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Originally Posted by BadSheep View Post
the problem with population control (at a practical rather than moral viewpoint) is that it is impossible to predict future wealth generation, resource discovery and utilization, etc. We have had many, many times in the past where economists and others warn about overpopulation relative to food supply that turned out false followed by times where people scream about underpopulation and demand for immigration.

In short, i dont think there is enough evidence to prove overpopulation at the moment, nor is there a way to accurately measure what population we would need in the future. Feel free to debunk me here... these are merely conjectures.
China, India and other Asian countries are pretty good evidence that at the very least, some nations have a very real overpopulation issues.

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Im not sure if its moral or immoral for the government to force people not to have babies, so I agree more or less with Sir Codin. I am against birth quotas and would rather see increased education, cultural change, birth control, etc.
I actually don't see what's so bad about having a birth quota.
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Old March 20th, 2017 (4:18 AM).
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I actually don't see what's so bad about having a birth quota.
It sort of seems like a short-term/bandaid fix. Birth quota simply forces people to not have many kids, but as soon as the quota is lifted when the population reaches an "acceptable level", people will just go back to breeding like oversized rabbits and then we're back to square one in like a decade or so. The stuff he mentioned is a more long-term solution that changes the people rather than forcing them to do it. Understanding why having 8 kids is kind of a bad idea is better than telling people they just can't have 8 kids because reasons.
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Old March 20th, 2017 (4:24 AM).
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It sort of seems like a short-term/bandaid fix. Birth quota simply forces people to not have many kids, but as soon as the quota is lifted when the population reaches an "acceptable level", people will just go back to breeding like oversized rabbits and then we're back to square one in like a decade or so. The stuff he mentioned is a more long-term solution that changes the people rather than forcing them to do it. Understanding why having 8 kids is kind of a bad idea is better than telling people they just can't have 8 kids because reasons.
Oh I agree with that, but education is a long term fix. A short term solution isn't something to be shunned whilst waiting for the long term solution to take effect.
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Old March 20th, 2017 (5:33 AM).
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Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
China, India and other Asian countries are pretty good evidence that at the very least, some nations have a very real overpopulation issues.
At the same time food production is skyrocketing and China and India's economies are gaining steam I think. In the US, the government actually has to pay farmers to sell only a small portion of their yield to prevent farm prices from dropping. We are missing out on a TON of food (that we dont need) as a result, so if the population explodes relative to the current food supply, this cap can just be lifted. I am fairly certain that most developed countries also do this to prevent crashes.
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Old March 20th, 2017 (7:00 AM).
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    There's a double-edge sword in regards to overpopulation. Economies depend on large populations to keep businesses afloat with new jobs opening and new employments hired. If there's a shortage on population growth, then the economy suffers. There's also a need to keep making babies because of issues like this. Surnames and clans are like subspecies of different animals, they're at risk of going extinct if they don't reproduce enough babies to maintain their numbers.

    Since not a lot of countries are cooperating to solve their population problems, the only solution to stop overpopulation in the easiest way possible is genocide, which is what Lysandre from Pokémon XY has been trying to do and why I praised him as the true hero in the series. However, genocide is largely frowned upon because killing is viewed as inhumane, even though poisoning the Earth and wiping out numerous organisms unintentionally is just as inhumane, or worse, than killing our own kind. We must now encourage people to commit suicide, abortion, and other degrees of murder to maintain our population.
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    Old March 21st, 2017 (11:48 PM).
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    One way I could think is to move some people around? Like Canada is very underpopulated for the amount of land we have, we could afford to take more people.
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    Old March 22nd, 2017 (12:53 AM). Edited March 22nd, 2017 by Nah.
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn View Post
    We must now encourage people to commit suicide, abortion, and other degrees of murder to maintain our population.
    Well why don't you lead by example?

    I mean, take your family out back, your friends too and help the cause! When you're done you can rest easy knowing you've helped! Then you can complete your service by heroically sacrificing yourself!

    Or did you just mean we should mindlessly kill people you don't know or love?

    Genocide is wrong, no matter what a child's video game bad guy thinks or promotes.

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    Originally Posted by Maple Leaf View Post
    Population control, although somewhat intentionally so, has existed in the United States since at least 1973, when Roe v. Wade was decided. Plain and simple, abortion acts as population control.
    It's not population control in the traditional sense. People aren't forced to have abortions, it's not some govt policy intended to keep numbers low.

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    Since then, a staggering 58 million "American" fetuses (millions more elsewhere) have been aborted. Furthermore, for rather controversial reasons, abortion has caused a significant decrease in crime nationwide. It has prevented our population from increasing out of control
    Well I'm glad you can see the hardest choice many women (and men) will ever make in their life in such a black and white way

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    especially with rampant immigration already contributing to that.
    How would mass immigration help lower population?

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    While fetuses (brown, black, and white alike) abound are being shredded to bits, immigrants are still arriving on our shores. Why would they not? This is demographic replacement.
    Careful with this. As someone who formed half a decision to have an early termination I'll tell you right now there is no harder or more harrowing choice you will ever make. I've spent the past two years haunted by that choice because it isn't some elaborate scheme to help replace the whiteman. It's a multilayered decision to, realistically, stop a life from forming. There's undoubtedly others here who have made that choice and the last thing they need is someone reducing their pain and guilt as a shortcut to promoting a political narrative about low key "white genocide".

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    Our overall population, so to speak, is kept relatively down, while foreigners inundate our lands. I'm not saying this is problematic, but it is more than real, whether you like it or not.
    Your lands? Are you native? Or are you the byproduct of immigration? Your whole country is founded on undocumented mass immigration from Europe, you really do not have a foot to stand on with this. Your culture is manifest destiny, it is rooted in migration.
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    Old March 22nd, 2017 (7:43 AM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Hands View Post
      Well why don't you lead by example?

      I mean, take your family out back, your friends too and help the cause! When you're done you can rest easy knowing you've helped! Then you can complete your service by heroically sacrificing yourself!

      Or did you just mean we should mindlessly kill people you don't know or love?
      The latter.

      Quote:
      Genocide is wrong, no matter what a child's video game bad guy thinks or promotes.
      This is exactly what I meant about genocide being largely frowned upon because killing is viewed as inhumane, unless you're a misanthropist. Animals kill their own kind all the time, and weren't we told that we're animals as well? All of these non-killing solutions for population control will take too long to save the environment, and once we've reached our desired population number, it's already too late. Genocide provides the quickest way for a population decrease, as we've done this before to tons of animal species who are either endangered or extinct. Remember what movies and shows such as the Matrix and Parasyte said about humans being viruses.
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      Old March 22nd, 2017 (7:51 AM).
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      The latter.
      The moment you said this your entire argument was lost. If you aren't prepared to make that kind of sacrifice yourself - and you shouldn't be - you can't ask anyone else to make it.
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      Old March 26th, 2017 (7:06 AM).
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      Minorities are more likely to get abortions than whites, so I highly doubt abortion is causing any demographic shift against whites, and if it is, it has little impact. Abortion is not causing any white genocide.

      https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/abortions-racial-gap/380251/
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      Old March 26th, 2017 (4:36 PM).
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      Quote:
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      What is reading comprehension?

      I never mentioned "white genocide," and thus abortion was never connected to it. Also, while I did mention demographic replacement, I made it clear that immigrants are doing the replacing. (Actually, minorities being likelier than whites to get abortions contributed to the Donohue–Levitt hypothesis.)
      Okay, remove the phrase "white genocide" from my post. I mentioned "white genocide" because the topic is very similar to this.

      The point was that abortion isn't causing any demographic shifts against whites. If immigrants - non-white immigrants - are replacing whites and the discussion is talking about abortions, there is a strong implication. My post merely provided the stats that back up Hands's argument.
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      Old April 5th, 2017 (4:12 AM).
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        no government has no right, i think it's personal issue
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        Old April 5th, 2017 (11:18 PM).
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        no government has no right, i think it's personal issue
        Could you go into more detail please?
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        Old April 6th, 2017 (2:36 AM).
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          I really don't think there's a definite answer on this one. Although some countries may find themselves in a desperate need to control population growth, there are always negative consequences to doing so. I know that in China, many girls were orphaned by parents who wanted baby boys as a result of the one-child policy.
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          Old April 8th, 2017 (7:18 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
          Could you go into more detail please?
          He can correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like he's referring to what Bad Sheep and Maple Leaf were talking prior to his point - i.e. abortion - in which the statement is about the choice for abortions being from the individual, not controlled by the government.
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          Old April 8th, 2017 (10:49 PM).
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          Quote:
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          Isn't there a huge lack of females going on in Asia because of this and is causing its own problems?
          I would argue that's more a result of their culture than directly the fault of population control methods.

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          He can correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like he's referring to what Bad Sheep and Maple Leaf were talking prior to his point - i.e. abortion - in which the statement is about the choice for abortions being from the individual, not controlled by the government.
          Probably. I would think though that keeping the population safe and healthy is very much the responsibility of the government.
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          Old April 9th, 2017 (4:04 AM).
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          I was referring to the 1 child per household law tho. I read somewhere that India is dealing with a similar issue in some places but I can't find the link. Of course it's cultural, male children are more valuable in most cultures, but as a result I think there's about 33 million more men then women as of 2014 there. When it comes to the sex coin flip medically speaking for every 100 females 107 males are born. So there's no reason other then the obvious why those numbers are so lopsided.
          I can't argue with that.
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          Old April 9th, 2017 (4:59 AM).
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          Quote:
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          I was referring to the 1 child per household law tho. I read somewhere that India is dealing with a similar issue in some places but I can't find the link. Of course it's cultural, male children are more valuable in most cultures, but as a result I think there's about 33 million more men then women as of 2014 there. When it comes to the sex coin flip medically speaking for every 100 females 107 males are born. So there's no reason other then the obvious why those numbers are so lopsided.
          Wasn't that ended in 2015 though? At least China ended that policy then I believe.
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          Old April 9th, 2017 (6:56 AM).
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          Outside of encouraging safe sex practices, especially use of contraception, there isn't much that a government can do to curb population growth without some rather sinister adverse effects. In particular the one child policy in China is something I considered a complete abomination. It's good that it's been ended but we can still study the effects. There was a mathematical anomaly in the number of male births reported compared to the number of female births. Basic biology should tell us this is 50-50, but we can see on page 27 of this article that this isn't the case. What, exactly, is happening with these "missing females"? Best case scenario is that they simply aren't being registered with the Chinese government, which still presents some hurdles for the parents of these young girls. However, in some cases, it would be naive to assume that something more perverse couldn't be happening. It's also important to note that, according to the same article, many theorize that the imbalance in the sex ratio, particularly in more remote provinces, could be driving a rise in sex-related crimes against women. To me it's incredibly sick to expose the women of China to such an oppressive and dangerous environment simply to curb overpopulation; while it certainly is an issue in China, overpopulation is much, much worse in South Asia and Southeast Asia (think India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc.). China still maintains an economy and a standard of living that, while developing, are above average for the region.

          What can be done? It's hard to say. Any intervention against global overpopulation has been proven inhumane and ineffective. For one, it promotes eugenics. How do we determine who deserves to have children and who doesn't? Eventually, the human population will reach its carrying capacity. It's a horrifying thought, because it means that most new births will place people in living situations that are so poor that they can't sustain their own existence. The best thing that can be done is to dilute political power at the very top of the global economy and attempt to redistribute resources to people who are suffering all over the world. Ruling out a revolution would, at this point, be silly.
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          Old April 9th, 2017 (6:57 AM).
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          Quote:
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          Yes but it doesn't matter, it's effects are going to hang around for more then a while. That's a huge imbalance that won't fix itself for a bit. I think it would be fair to chalk it up to an unforeseen consequence of the law and culture but it is one to take into account when discussing these things.
          Oh mot definitely, I agree with the fact that it is going to have consequences on the population out there. I was just trying to confirm my thought process of it still existed. Yes, it's going to damage the ratio out there, but at least the policy was upturned.
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          Old April 10th, 2017 (7:58 AM).
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          I see population control as the one singular aspect of life where the government should have the right to restrict the freedoms of its populace. It has gotten to a point now where it's probably too late to save what's left of the Earth because it has become clear that the human race is incapable of overcoming the base urge to procreate. If they can't make a simple conscious decision to override the programming of their biological clocks, then somebody has to step in and make that decision for them.

          I don't like the idea of the government controlling its people like this, but there's simply too much at stake. Everything is at stake, really.

          I get increasingly frustrated with people's inability to understand that their choices are "don't procreate" or "live to see the apocalypse." When I try to talk to people about it, the most common response I run into is "...but I want children," as though nothing I've said can register through their single-mindedness. If it comes to it, I'm absolutely comfortable with any government deeming them unfit to make their own reproductive decisions.
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          Old April 27th, 2017 (1:03 AM).
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            Well... If you you want my honest opinion.. It doesn't really matter if it were to happen.. I mean, if we keep using the resources the way we use them, we'll run out and cause nature to die and it's apocalypse by then. We're psyducked either way, unless we change the way we live which is impossible because a vast majority of the population drive vehicles that require fuel which puts toxic vapors in the air, and most can't afford an economical car!! Funny how this game works right? Or, the dumping of fuel into the ocean?? Yeah, we can't forget about that. That's just one of the many problems.

            As to would they? I'm not sure.. Who knows what their true agenda is behind closed doors??
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            Old April 27th, 2017 (1:21 AM).
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            Quote:
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            Well... If you you want my honest opinion.. It doesn't really matter if it were to happen.. I mean, if we keep using the resources the way we use them, we'll run out and cause nature to die and it's apocalypse by then. We're ****ed either way, unless we change the way we live which is impossible because a vast majority of the population drive vehicles that require fuel which puts toxic vapors in the air, and most can't afford an economical car!! Funny how this game works right? Or, the dumping of fuel into the ocean?? Yeah, we can't forget about that. That's just one of the many problems.

            As to would they? I'm not sure.. Who knows what their true agenda is behind closed doors??
            This is the bleakest and most real post here. He's right. Even if there was less of us, our lifestyle will still be our end.
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            Old April 27th, 2017 (11:53 AM).
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              And to mention.. If they were to go through with a depopulation tactic, anybody making 6 figure income and more are basically safe, the rest will be removed from the planet. Depopulation would remove those that can't support themselves, those that leech off others to support themselves, those that barely get by but support themselves, and those that are successful and rich but not "wealthy". Hell, even families that make hundred's of thousands would be killed. Really, it's all a money game and who's the most fortunate as to whether they would survive or not.

              The real question is... Is if they were to do something like depopulating the planet, how would they approach it? Deadly gas in the air? radiation? Militias gunning us down? Camps? Nuke?
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              Old April 28th, 2017 (2:51 AM).
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              And to mention.. If they were to go through with a depopulation tactic, anybody making 6 figure income and more are basically safe, the rest will be removed from the planet. Depopulation would remove those that can't support themselves, those that leech off others to support themselves, those that barely get by but support themselves, and those that are successful and rich but not "wealthy". Hell, even families that make hundred's of thousands would be killed. Really, it's all a money game and who's the most fortunate as to whether they would survive or not.

              The real question is... Is if they were to do something like depopulating the planet, how would they approach it? Deadly gas in the air? radiation? Militias gunning us down? Camps? Nuke?
              When people are talking about population control, they usually don't mean genocide.
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