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Where is racism today?

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  #51    
Old October 16th, 2013 (11:51 AM).
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I took a few classes on Chinese history in college and one thing I distinctly remember was that being Chinese, at least in ye olde days, was considered a cultural thing. Speak the language, be educated, and you were Chinese even if you had red hair.

Anyway, I'm still pushing the idea that there are two kinds of racism. There's the common definition of hatred or prejudice of certain races, and there's the institutional racism that pervades entire communities and affects people without necessarily being overt.

So, for instance, in America in the past we had poll taxes for voting. All you had to do was pay a fee and you could vote. Of course it ignored (intentionally) the fact that whites were much better off economically so the end result was to keep non-whites from voting. That's racism even though no one called any names or pointed fingers. That kind of racism is the kind that can't just be brushed aside or laughed at like you can do with some idiot spouting hatred on Youtube. That kind, I think, still persists in some way or another in most parts of the world.
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  #52    
Old October 20th, 2013 (5:13 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nymue View Post
    I think racism today is mostly about classism.

    Here in Australia, the commonest form of racism I see is that of people who are uncomfortable around certain ethnic groups because of language barriers and especially because of their socio-economic backgrounds. That is, people who feel us-vs-them about other cultural groups are offended by kids who make a lot of noise, swear, and are poorly educated and seem aggressive or contrary on the whole; or annoyed by immigrants who aren't fluent in English and familiar with local etiquette, systems and rules.

    Now, the same people who dislike these two groups aren't going to be as uncomfortable around someone well-educated from their own socioeconomic class, who just happens to be, say, indigenous, Asian, Arican, or what have you. Because the issue isn't really about skin colour or national origin. It's just culture difference, and classism.

    I can only talk about what I've seen in my part of the world, in my (predominantly white) social groups.

    But I do think classism is a major force in the modern economic world, and something we should be fighting just as hard as racism, if harder because it's an overlooked root problem. It's wrong to judge people based on the situation they were born into, just as much as it's wrong to judge them for their genetic traits.

    Be aware of that socioeconomic factor. If you're uncomfortable about a broad group of people, not because of what they do but more because of who they are, that probably has something to do with it, more than racism does.
    One thing big about Australia is social class. It's not as bad as the UK or most of Europe, but it's worse than the US.

    My family is lower middle class and most of my friends are either lower middle class or working class. A few are upper middle class. I have had mostly bad experiences with the well-to-do people. Several of my working class friends have been bullied by the rich kids.

    I am SO GLAD there is no aristocracy in Australia. I've heard nightmare stories about European aristocrats. Blame the French Revolution and German unification for much of that. A lot of the Nazis, as well as fascists in Italy, France, Hungary, and the UK, were from aristocratic backgrounds.

    I'm of Lebanese heritage (and Muslim - please don't hate me for that). My friends tend to be of European or Middle Eastern background, but I have friends of other races too. Actually, most of my friends are not of Lebanese heritage - though my girlfriend is (although she's Christian, not Muslim).
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      #53    
    Old October 26th, 2013 (2:52 AM).
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      In my opinion, we are just as racist as a country as we were fifty to one hundred years ago, it just isn't legal to do so any longer and thus we have shifted our discrimination away from the public eye or shield it within the confines of the law. We still disproportionately stop and frisk African Americans, we still considered Hispanics to be lazy and thieves, we still express scorn for the Native Americans. As white Americans, we have so many privileges and we simply do not realize it.
      For someone who based their entire argument off over generalizations in which you provided no examples or facts, you are quite confident.
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        #54    
      Old October 27th, 2013 (7:57 AM).
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        For someone who based their entire argument off over generalizations in which you provided no examples or facts, you are quite confident.
        http://www.nyclu.org/stopandfrisk
        https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/03/22-6
        http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-21/local/me-52902_1_illegal-immigrants-latino-population-foreign-born-populations
        http://www.pewcenter.org/doingcj/pubs/delving/chapter6.pdf
        http://www.jcu.edu/education/ed350/Myths%20and%20Stereotypes%20About%20Native%20Americans.pdf

        Excuse me for not citing all of my sources. I thought this information was common knowledge based on the high frequency of these stereotypes being portrayed in them media. I can provide many more sources if needed.
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        Old October 27th, 2013 (11:20 PM).
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        I've just realized that I use a lot of racist stereotypes in my interacting with people. Not in the way like I've never realized it before, but it just occurred to me again. Hopefully he won't kill me for this, but a good example is how I discuss themes of "brownness" with Dipu. I do see our relationship in racial terms - it's something that matters in a way meaningful enough to be brought up in discussion more often than less. Furthermore, I incorrectly assumed the race of a member here due to his interests X)

        The point I'm trying to bring up is: when do perpetuating stereotypes become harmful? When do you considering it "perpetuating" a stereotype? Is it okay if we're all friends at the end of the day?
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          #56    
        Old October 27th, 2013 (11:55 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Silais
          I thought this information was common knowledge based on the high frequency of these stereotypes being portrayed in them media.
          You have to be extremely careful when getting your sources from the media. Like with the Zimmerman case, the media kept using a picture of Tray Von Martin from when he was fourteen. This made it seem as if Zimmerman had just killed a little kid. Actually, Martin was eighteen and a big, muscular dude. Easily capable of beating someone within an inch of their life if he really wanted to.

          Another point on the media, the Zimmerman case made national headlines and was even commented on by the President of the United States of America. There was a story where a black male shot and killed a white high school student that never even made it passed the local news. Which, also brings me to another point.

          Racism isn't just against non-whites anymore. In today's society, people are much more prone to react to racism when it's targeted towards a minority group. Especially when a white person says it. If a minority makes the same remark, hardly anyone notices. Don't worry, I have another example.

          In the tv show "Criminal Minds", most of the criminals are shown as being white people. In fact, over half of the people arrested in similar crimes in the real world are black (not trying to sound racist here). No one really notices this because racism against whites is somewhat okay in today's society. I bet that if the show portrayed these statistics in their show, people would be all over how the show is racist.

          I'm really not trying to sound racist here, but rather trying to bring up a point that not all racism is against the minorities and that the media can't always be trusted. I sure hope it came out that way.

          Anyway, to answer BlahISuck's new question.

          Stereotypes become harmful when they're used in a demeaning manner. Such as someone calling me an ignorant (enter explicit word here) just because I'm an American. Even when not meant to be insulting, you still have to be careful. You never know how someone is going to react.
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            #57    
          Old October 28th, 2013 (1:05 AM).
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            People fear that which is different. I don't think this will really ever change. What can change, though, is how people react to those fears of theirs. It takes a brave person to admit when they are prejudiced against a certain group, but then make a genuine attempt to confront that prejudice.
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              #58    
            Old October 28th, 2013 (2:50 PM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by BlahISuck View Post
              Furthermore, I incorrectly assumed the race of a member here due to his interests
              People where I live often assume your interests based on your race. There are people who are surprised that I act very "white". These people expect Lebanese Australians to be kind of ghetto.

              I hate the idea that a person who isn't overly proud of their culture or its media is branded as a race traitor. For example, most of my friends (even the Anglo-Celtic ones) don't watch Neighbours or other Australian sitcoms/soap operas. It doesn't mean they're ashamed of being Australian. I even think American media tends to be better. However, I love living in Australia and think it's a great place. I'm Lebanese and most of my favourite singers are not of Lebanese heritage.

              It's like expecting someone's favourite character in a work of fiction to be the same race, gender, religion, and phenotype as them. For example, my sister prefers Princess Aurora over Princess Jasmine, even though Jasmine is Middle Eastern like my sister, and that's perfectly normal. Would you expect all blond guys to like Draco Malfoy or all Chinese girls to like Chun-Li?

              Racism is stupid.
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                #59    
              Old October 28th, 2013 (2:53 PM).
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              That's interesting. I think Lebanese people are white. I think most Arabs are white. If you look white, you're white lol. It's interesting when the War on Terror was in its heights in the hearts and minds of the people, Arab wasn't considered white.
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              Old October 28th, 2013 (9:13 PM).
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                No, Arab was still considered White. It's just that "Muslim" was considered its own race.
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                Old October 29th, 2013 (3:30 AM).
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                  I've personally never seen racism, apart from when it is accidental, which is generally funny and doesn't have any malicious intent. However little I may have seen racism, TV and the media seem to argue otherwise. There was a TV show on a while ago, where some British white people had to live with some foreign people, to see what their life was like. One of the english people wanted to take his partner to the pub, but when he got there, his partner refused. Apparently he had been attacked, and almost killed by the people who were in there, just because he was not British.

                  I think it is horrible that some people can harm others like this, but I'm glad that now, it is no longer considered acceptable to be racist. Often if I am talking to a black person, that I don't know, I will be very conscious of what I am saying as not to offend. Though this can turn out to be awkward and embarrassing, I think it does show that most people do not want to offend, and they know that racism is wrong.

                  Also, in Britain we have a group called the EDL (English Defence League), who are openly racist. Honestly, I think this just shows racism in a worse light. Most of the people in the EDL are... not the brightest sparks in the world. You can tell by the way they talk and act, that they are clearly uneducated, and end up telling the country: if you're racist, you're probably thick!
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                    #62    
                  Old October 29th, 2013 (8:10 AM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Hackbird64
                    Also, in Britain we have a group called the EDL (English Defence League), who are openly racist. Honestly, I think this just shows racism in a worse light. Most of the people in the EDL are... not the brightest sparks in the world. You can tell by the way they talk and act, that they are clearly uneducated, and end up telling the country: if you're racist, you're probably thick!
                    Just like the KKK in the US. Although the group has shrunk considerably, they're still around. In fact, my friend posted a picture on Facebook when she went to the park and saw that they were having a meet and greet. Let's just say, there weren't that many people there.

                    I haven't seen much racism either. In fact, I can't think of an instance on which I've seen it first hand. Of course, there's the media stories, but those can often get blown out of proportion and exaggerated just to make it more heart-wrenching.
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                    Old October 29th, 2013 (10:57 AM).
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                      The KKK isn't as bad though. They threaten but rarely harm - they just still believe in the white supremacy concept that arose with Eugenics. But they're much more docile now. Though they think of other races as under them, they don't chase down and slaughter people anymore. After all, many people in the KKK now are generally normal members of society - they don't train in martial arts or anything, so they just do protests and try to "get the word out".

                      Yes, they're racist, but their racism is based on logic. Not stupidity.
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                        #64    
                      Old October 29th, 2013 (1:21 PM).
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                        Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                        The KKK isn't as bad though. They threaten but rarely harm - they just still believe in the white supremacy concept that arose with Eugenics. But they're much more docile now. Though they think of other races as under them, they don't chase down and slaughter people anymore. After all, many people in the KKK now are generally normal members of society - they don't train in martial arts or anything, so they just do protests and try to "get the word out".

                        Yes, they're racist, but their racism is based on logic. Not stupidity.
                        Even though hate speech and intimidation cause considerable psychological distress? I never thought I'd see a post defending the KKK and calling them logical in my life. Stop the world, I want to get off.
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                        Old October 29th, 2013 (4:53 PM).
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                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Slayr231 View Post
                        Racism isn't just against non-whites anymore. In today's society, people are much more prone to react to racism when it's targeted towards a minority group. Especially when a white person says it. If a minority makes the same remark, hardly anyone notices. Don't worry, I have another example.
                        ooh yeah

                        Quote:
                        In the tv show "Criminal Minds", most of the criminals are shown as being white people. In fact, over half of the people arrested in similar crimes in the real world are black (not trying to sound racist here). No one really notices this because racism against whites is somewhat okay in today's society. I bet that if the show portrayed these statistics in their show, people would be all over how the show is racist.
                        drink those

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                        I'm really not trying to sound racist here, but rather trying to bring up a point that not all racism is against the minorities and that the media can't always be trusted. I sure hope it came out that way.
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                        Old October 29th, 2013 (5:37 PM).
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                          Originally Posted by Magic Christmas Lights View Post
                          Even though hate speech and intimidation cause considerable psychological distress? I never thought I'd see a post defending the KKK and calling them logical in my life. Stop the world, I want to get off.
                          And I pretty much expected a post which declared the KKK's actions to not be logical.

                          Yes, they are. Eugenics operated under the idea that purity of race helped each race better act to their own accord - for whites, this meant the recent advances in the world's culture for the past TWO THOUSAND YEARS were based on purity of race and white supremacy. Thus, LOGIC.

                          I'm not saying that IS why whites HAVE made the most advances - only slightly more than Asia, though - in the past 2,000 years, but it's why the KKK think they have. Thus, LOGIC.

                          #learnyourhistory

                          --

                          Sure, they cause psychological distress, but so does having a car's BRIGHT @$$ HEADLIGHTS come up right behind me when I'm walking at night. And I'm nocturnal, so yes, there IS a reason why I do my walks at night.

                          The KKK's psychological distress is nothing compared to the majority of fake propaganda put on news channels or the random creepypasta things you find all-throughout the web.
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                          Old October 29th, 2013 (5:44 PM).
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                          Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                          And I pretty much expected a post which declared the KKK's actions to not be logical.

                          Yes, they are. Eugenics operated under the idea that purity of race helped each race better act to their own accord - for whites, this meant the recent advances in the world's culture for the past TWO THOUSAND YEARS were based on purity of race and white supremacy. Thus, LOGIC.
                          are you declaring eugenics logical

                          like

                          ok goebbels

                          Quote:
                          I'm not saying that IS why whites HAVE made the most advances - only slightly more than Asia, though - in the past 2,000 years, but it's why the KKK think they have. Thus, LOGIC.

                          #learnyourhistory
                          it only seems like whites have made the most advancements because that is the biased culture you have been raised to believe in

                          #learnyournonbiasednoneurocentrichistory
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                            #68    
                          Old October 29th, 2013 (6:15 PM).
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                          And I pretty much expected a post which declared the KKK's actions to not be logical.

                          Yes, they are. Eugenics operated under the idea that purity of race helped each race better act to their own accord - for whites, this meant the recent advances in the world's culture for the past TWO THOUSAND YEARS were based on purity of race and white supremacy. Thus, LOGIC.

                          I'm not saying that IS why whites HAVE made the most advances - only slightly more than Asia, though - in the past 2,000 years, but it's why the KKK think they have. Thus, LOGIC.
                          Well yeah, in the way you're putting it most of the things in the world are logical. People will justify their actions along an assumption. I mean, does purity of race help each race act better? that's certainly debatable, and for me it's illogical. You can look at the most powerful country in the world, the United States benefiting from different races and people working together. It attracts the best and brightest - the elite - from all of the world, as well it will continue growing economically due to population growth from immigration while the European countries must fight a shrinking population.

                          Eugenics in a way is very logical. Removing the genetically "undesirable" would help a lot of the genetic defects be selected out of our gene pool. Of course, dignity for the individual and human rights prevents it from taking any form. Your argument about eugenics being logical is only rational in this sense. Racial eugenics doesn't really work. Also, while arguing how something is logical may be valid, it doesn't really mean anything, because most people justify their actions on something - whether that justification is reasonable or not is another story.

                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                          Sure, they cause psychological distress, but so does having a car's BRIGHT @$$ HEADLIGHTS come up right behind me when I'm walking at night. And I'm nocturnal, so yes, there IS a reason why I do my walks at night.

                          The KKK's psychological distress is nothing compared to the majority of fake propaganda put on news channels or the random creepypasta things you find all-throughout the web.
                          That's just being ignorant. Decades of lynching and racial violence do not simply go away because the police go after them today. And MCL's right, hate speech and intimidation are big. It feels like everybody is targeting you, and whatever they do, they can get away with it. That's the power of hate speech and intimidation - it feels like there's a system bent to destroy you. I'm not sure if fake propaganda or creepypasta would be that threatening, honestly, it certainly is a lot less palpable and tangible.

                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                          #learnyourhistory
                          Don't we tolerate enough of your shenanigans? You can make great posts as long as you're not watering it down with crap like this.

                          Also I'm pretty sure the Chinese were much further advanced not only technologically but even in per capita terms (which is impressive, considering the Ming Dynasty had a population of over 300 million. All of Europe had, what, less than 100 million? The Chinese Empire grew/ate themselves to relative collapse) until around the 1400's ;) Take white supremacy back to the Dark Ages and the rest of the world can point their fingers and laugh :P
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                          Old October 29th, 2013 (7:06 PM).
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                            That's just being ignorant. Decades of lynching and racial violence do not simply go away because the police go after them today.
                            Thus, why I said, they aren't AS MUCH a threat in the PRESENT DAY. I understand they were more a threat in the past. Now, they're just empty words.

                            --

                            So you're wanting to do a societal advancement race here? Heheheheh...

                            Goody. Just so you know, I DID say Asia was right behind Europe in the past 2,000 years. But sure. Here we go.

                            China's idea of chemistry was poisoning an emperor and seeing what would happen. Their idea of warfare was having a person fire an explosive which generally killed the person that fired the weapon. They thought it was a great idea to sacrifice millions to build a giant wall. Sure, the wall was useful, but I'm pretty sure it killed more people than the pyramids did.

                            The majority of Japanese advancement was done by killing each other.

                            The ONLY truly useful people in Asia were the philosophers - their ideas were the only ones that actually managed to move society in a forward direction. And Europe had far, far more philosophers with more results in philosophy. Most of the Asian philosophers, by the way, came from neither Japan nor China. Lovely.

                            --

                            If you include the Middle East and Egypt, Europe advanced much faster and more than Asia, even throughout various "Dark Ages". Mathematics, WORKING Science, political change on mass scale, concepts of honor and justice (other than with the Samurai), the majority of advances in the arts and languages - music, literary genres, historical records, etc - all came from Europe. Europeans excelled in structure and communication. They inspired the very world we live in today.

                            The only legacies Africa and America left were in, like, one region each. Everywhere else held slaughter on universal scale, where people drank from the skulls of their enemies.

                            --

                            I respect the cultures of all peoples throughout the entire world, but if you want to start a "Who contributed the most?" war, you'll be thoroughly defeated.

                            The reason people thought WHITES were BETTER was not because of Eugenics - Eugenics was its own discipline that ended up tying into supremacy within the cultures of the societies themselves. Without Eugenics, the majority of medical and scientific advances we have made - prior to quantitative Physics - would not have occurred. It used PROPER science and had fully logical and rational bases before it turned into a race war.

                            --

                            You can throw hate at the KKK and similar organizations all you want - but by doing so, you're no better than them. You seek to destroy people rather than the core issues which cause them to act this way. The KKK is not Racism itself, they are a product of racism.

                            ONLY by studying the REASONS for racism, their logical and rational bases, and EVERY WAY they've progressed throughout history, can we truly eliminate Racism from the world.
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                            Old October 29th, 2013 (7:36 PM).
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                              but if you want to start a "Who contributed the most?" war, you'll be thoroughly defeated.
                              Okay, this goes for everybody. Can we please refrain from using statements like these? You never know how knowledgeable the other person (or people) is and it only makes you seem arrogant. If anyone is like me, then they want to tear down arrogant people as much as possible, so it's in your best interest not to post things like this.

                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Harlequin
                              it only seems like whites have made the most advancements because that is the biased culture you have been raised to believe in
                              Care to elaborate on this? I thought it might bring up some good debates, but you don't put facts with your posts. If you have a counter argument, you're going to need some facts to back it up behind. Same goes for your response to what I said earlier. I don't know whether or not I can take you seriously.

                              Getting to the real subject, I'll agree with what Rezilia has said about the KKK not being as strong as they were, but that's about it. I do think that the threatening speeches they do say has a huge affect. How would you like it if someone wrote a letter to you saying that they were going to kill off your entire family because of your race? It has happened in recent history and it would scare the crap out of me. I would live the rest of my life in fear of being murdered in my sleep, so the argument that they're not as bad I just can't quite get behind. I see the argument, but I'm not sold on it.
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                                #71    
                              Old October 29th, 2013 (7:39 PM).
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                              Two things:

                              1) A shallow understanding of history. Your interpretation of Chinese history is laughable, and your reading of Western history is most superficial. I can school you on history elsewhere ;)

                              2) I added the last passage as a tongue-in-cheek way to point out how glossy your take on Western history was, and as a reminder to take the subject more seriously, but you've taken my passage seriously. Now you're trying to make the West look good - and you can do that, but you're trying and you don't have to try, if you're getting my drift. I've got my Chinese nationalism, but what you have for the white "race", I don't know. Let's not keep this discussion going, at least not here. People will take it the wrong way. Also, I'm not a fan of your style of eurocentrism. I'm not calling it out for what it is.

                              Other things that require pointing out:

                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                              Thus, why I said, they aren't AS MUCH a threat in the PRESENT DAY. I understand they were more a threat in the past. Now, they're just empty words.
                              Ask a black person if they're empty words. Racial ******** is still going around, and even if nobody's organizing lynches and arson like they used to, these crimes still occur, as motivated by racial hatred. We're all thankful that the KKK isn't running wild, unrestrained, like they could - but today's race crimes and the legacy of segregation is frankly disgusting to me (and I'm not even an American).

                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                              You can throw hate at the KKK and similar organizations all you want - but by doing so, you're no better than them. You seek to destroy people rather than the core issues which cause them to act this way. The KKK is not Racism itself, they are a product of racism.

                              ONLY by studying the REASONS for racism, their logical and rational bases, and EVERY WAY they've progressed throughout history, can we truly eliminate Racism from the world.
                              Don't play with semantics like that. It's just plain disrespectful. We're all intelligent enough not to be insulted with the way you throw definitions around. I don't see how you can equivocate "hate" for the KKK with the KKK's hate, nor the meaningful difference between being racism itself with being a product of racism.

                              If I had to take your passage seriously, I would criticize your understanding of society and culture. You seem to neglect that ideas have to be propagated - and it takes such an organization as the KKK to do so. Ideas don't simply exist in a vacuum, they have power because of the people that believe them - and writing as if this wasn't the case is simply intellectually irresponsible.
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                                #72    
                              Old October 29th, 2013 (8:28 PM).
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                              Rezilia Rezilia is offline
                                 
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                                I'm not saying they aren't as bad because they've switched tactics. I'm saying ti based on the fact that their actions are much less direct and the membership - and thus power - has dwindled. Yes, words have power, and as I believe I've said before - I'm against verbal assault just as much as physical assault. But by claiming that one group is just plain evil, you are taking sides.

                                You just said I'm Eurocentric. I'm not. Many people attack those that defend Western civilization, calling them ignorant and racist. What, you think that isn't racism? It is.

                                I'm not saying Europians contributed the most in the past two thousand years due to being raised in a Western society. I say that because I've studied history thoroughly and know it to be true.

                                I recognize greatly the contributions of many in Asia, but as I said, it was generally the philosophers that contributed. And until modern times, they were so secretive in their findings that they didn't contribute as much to Asian societies as they could have, unlike European philosophers who were always open to the people.

                                In the past 100 or so years, Asia has made more contributions to the modern world. I'm not going to deny this. I'm greatly influenced by Eastern philosophies and especially the Social Sins. Ideas of equality and peace, unlike ever before, spread throughout Asia in volumes and contributed to the world to such extents that it can't be denied.

                                But I'm not going to say that their contributions affected the world throughout a longer span of years, when it was Europe that affected the world more instead. That's been proven by Europe's effect on history. Many nations in Asia, America, and Africa were so closed in everything they did that they didn't affect the world as much as they could have. That is the ONLY reason why Europe got a one up on them.

                                I'm about half Cherokee. I looked into most Native American histories, esp. my own. My people were traitors. My white ancestors ran and hid from their problems. Both sides abandoned their people. You think I believe I'm superior? No, I don't.

                                I claim that America and Africa didn't really contribute at all due to what we've found in history - that the peoples in those continents were too busy warring with each other than really making advances that altered the entire world.

                                --

                                The only reason I replied as I did was to show you WHY supremacy WAS logical in nature. People didn't just move from nationalism to racism on a whim, they did it because they were united by the ways various peoples interacted with one another to make their contributions to the world.

                                Hating on Western civilizations is just as bad as any form of hate. It is based in ignorance because instead of trying to see the merit of a people, you attack them due to the feeling that they are denying you your history, when this isn't the case.
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                                  #73    
                                Old October 29th, 2013 (8:40 PM).
                                Kanzler's Avatar
                                Kanzler Kanzler is offline
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                                There's a fine line between nationalism and something more. I (should) know you well enough to know that you're just making a point, but I can't say the same for others.

                                Also, interesting that you brought up "hate against Western Civilization". This is a pretty big discussion unto itself.

                                My take on it is that "Western Civilization" is not particularly racially based, although it was admittedly more so in the past with European colonialism and the "mission to civilize". Now however, I take it as things like human rights and democracy and capitalism - norms that Western countries are trying to universalize into universal values, I suppose. I'm sure there are other ways to describe Western Civilization.

                                Tying it back to racism, I don't consider hating on Western Civilization to be a kind of racism. As I've described, anybody can become Western by having Western values. Also, "hating" on Western Civilization can be very intellectual. We're used to praising Western Civilization as a norm - think about how we're always talking about third world countries in terms of democracy and prosperity and thinking "why can't they just be like us?" so I think it takes a bit to think outside the box that we're used to as Westerners :P
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                                  #74    
                                Old October 29th, 2013 (8:42 PM).
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                                Nolafus Nolafus is offline
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                                  Quote:
                                  I claim that America and Africa didn't really contribute at all due to what we've found in history - that the peoples in those continents were too busy warring with each other than really making advances that altered the entire world.
                                  I have an issue with this statement. America's civil war is what led to today's modern warfare. Things that were developed varied from more guerrilla style warfare to non-spherical bullets. Yes, we were warring with eachother, but don't say we didn't contribute much. ;)
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                                    #75    
                                  Old October 29th, 2013 (8:47 PM).
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                                  Kanzler Kanzler is offline
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                                  It's more or less true, however. The "civilizations" of America and Africa didn't contribute much to the nation-state, Western society, nor modern science and philosophy but for the economic interaction that involved the extraction of both resources and people to the benefit of their Western overlords ;) Should I say Western of European? is anyone familiar with "American colonialism"? just tie whatever tangents you make back to the topic of racism please.
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