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  #76    
Old September 5th, 2017 (3:53 AM). Edited September 5th, 2017 by CidHazard.
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CidHazard CidHazard is offline
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    Quote:
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    Ratings =/= Production, that's insane... and you know that's not true. If it was the case, then movies like Water World and Jupiter Ascending would've been box office hits and classics. And the Original Dawn of the Dead or Halloween or Rocky or Pulp Fiction would've sucked right?
    Woah you wrote well produced... my bad XD I was thinking of something completely different. That was a mistake on my part XD The point still stands tho

    Rating's =/= Production
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      #77    
    Old September 5th, 2017 (3:53 AM).
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      Not to mention viewing habits have changed since 1997, what with websites such as crunchyroll allowing people to watch anime to fit their schedule and not schedule around Pokémon or any other show foe that matter
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        #78    
      Old September 5th, 2017 (7:53 AM).
      CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is offline
         
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        Zelda 2 is nothing like Sun and Moon. Zelda was still establishing itself as a Franchise, although I will admit Zelda 2 was a departure from the Original so I can see why you're equating it to Sun and Moon. The thing is, in time, people grew to appreciate Zelda 2 but when it first came out, it was the Black sheep of the franchise. Perhaps that will also happen with Sun and Moon(but I doubt it because each series has tried to stay as close as possible to the games. This is the first series where you can make the case that it hasn't and that is why Sun and Moon gets the hate. I mean forget the whole change in Animation/Art Style(Animation in Sun and Moon is actually pretty good, but I can go without the funny faces frankly) but when Kiawe, Mallow, Lana and Sophocles weren't Trial Captains, you have every reason to dislike it).

        I also don't think ratings determine what a good movie or series is either. What determines a movie to be good or bad is purely subjective(hence my rankings in the series can change from one day to the next). Namely that determination comes from you, although we usually defer to people who do it for a living(aka critics) and then decide whether to watch or see something based on their recommendation. I've seen movies or shows that critics had labeled as crap and thought they were pretty good while also seeing "good" ones and coming away feeling cheated or it sucked.

        Plus, as has been pointed out in another thread concerning ratings(perhaps you can do the ratings argument over there?), ratings don't actually show the popularity of a show as they once did say 25 years ago. Viewing habits of people are changing and hence don't represent the true viewership as there are multiple ways of watching a program(and I don't think these ratings take all of it into account).

        In any case, Sun and Moon is indeed different but what really makes people dislike it is the fact it's not even resembling the games and has comedy within it that is shall we say not appealing to western viewers. It's OST could be better too, with its opening a reuse of Season 1. It's still ongoing and has the chance to redeem itself but with the way things are going I don't think it's going to dig itself out of the basement.
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          #79    
        Old September 5th, 2017 (10:09 AM). Edited September 5th, 2017 by Kostas.
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        What are you guys doing? Why are you keep talking about Zelda, Batman, Winnie the Pooh, NCIS, little pony etc etc in a Pokemon Anime thread? Of course I'm going to delete off-topic posts and posts that replied to those posts. Also, from now on I'm not going to warn you, I can just infract you since I warned you many times.
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          #80    
        Old September 5th, 2017 (3:07 PM). Edited September 5th, 2017 by Rajas20.
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          Got to mostly agree with Codehelmet on his ratings, especially XYZ. It became my favorite series from the beginning which surprised me greatly as I usually take 10-15 episodes to get into the story and characters. I've seen some saying Serena was annoying to them but I really couldn't relate to that as she was the near perfect companion Ash needed in the series based on his behavior compared to the past series. I fully enjoyed his much added maturity and for once seemed to be the leader of the group. Definitely added years to his character (from 10 to 17 at least for me). I have also never been one to 'ship' characters with Ash but the way Serena was written felt smooth to me and hardly forced. I may not have remembered the past seasons as greatly as I wanted to but his actions towards her seemed way different than his usual behavior. Not sure if age has something to do with it as well but I've greatly grown to appreciate what XYZ was trying to portray maturity wise.
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            #81    
          Old September 5th, 2017 (3:12 PM). Edited September 5th, 2017 by Piii.
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by janejane6178 View Post
            I loved both BW and XY(Z). but the latter was my favourite. I can agree about Clemont, buy Bonnie certainly wasn't a backgroun character. Especially in last season of XY.
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by CodeHelmet View Post
            Black and White tried to do too many things at once. They tried rebooting the series with a rookie caliber Ash and rekindling the Original series Mentor/Tsundere relationship with Iris of all characters while promoting the new Clubsplosion and other in-game Tournaments throughout the series. They botched the rivals and other facets of the series(which I noted in my 2nd ranking) but at least I'll give it credit for trying to stick true to the core of what the anime was about: traveling around doing Gym's and entering the regional league. People hate on it because it went from one of the best series in Sinnoh(Diamond and Pearl) to one that was a shell of its former self(Unova or Black and White). When your predecessor series is so good, I really think people put a ton of expectations on it and well it never lived up to it.

            Sun and Moon, on the other hand, changed the formula completely but rather than trying to stick to the game's mantra of trials with Trial Captains, they subbed for that with a Pokemon School. Considering way back in Season 1, Ash was never into School and they further demonstrated that back in Season 11 with the Pokemon Summer Academy in Sinnoh(with Angie). They reused the Academy again in Kalos(although Ash seemed more up to it this time around) but if history has told us anything is that Ash is not fond of school and it certainly doesn't work as the basis of a series where the game's have nothing in common with it(outside of the Grand Trials with the Kahuna's so far).

            As for XY/XYZ, Clemont was basically the Sceince nerd who served his purpose as comedy relief and as Ash's 5th Gym Battle(in a way he basically was this series' version of Brock). Was also Bonnie's big brother so he added a needed family component to the group. Bonnie was a far better character than Max(let's agree on just this ok?). She grew from an innocent little girl to one that took on more and more responsibility at such a young age, including caring for Pokemon(one of which was the legendary Zygarde). Her caring nature is ultimately what decided the final battle as her lullaby is what broke Team Flare's Mind Control over the Zygarde she took care of. Everyone makes a big deal over Ash in that final battle but the true MVP is Bonnie.
            BW series wasn't perfect and i really do admit that. The rivals were really interesting, the Tournaments were really great because it gave Ash a lot of character development, Iris and Cilan were also great characters, but this series was way too overrush, and the Pokemon League went to crap because of it.

            OS started out super great and it would become one of the best animes ever. Ash/Misty/Brock are one of the best anime characters to ever appear on the air, the 150/251 Pokemon were really badass and the Pokemon League was the best League ever, the characters were really mature, the animation was really great, characters like Gary were really great and he made a really cool rival.

            XY/XYZ started out good but the later season went by too fast, The Pokemon League was overrush and ended terribly, Clemont/Bonnie were great characters, Some of the characters were okay, but the others were really boring and uninteresting, but the animation wasn't all that great and it really did suck.

            AG is regarded as being the best of the anime. May/Max are one of the most annoying characters that have ever appear in the anime, most of the new pokemon suck in this series, some of the characters were okay, the Pokemon League wasn't too bad, but it could have been much better.

            DP wasn''t the best of the anime, but it did give Ash a Dragon type for the first time and he did made it to the top 4 and that was about it, the rivals of this series were poorly handled, some of the characters didn't have much personality namely Dawn.

            SM is still an on going series, but from what i seen is not really a great series.
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              #82    
            Old September 5th, 2017 (5:53 PM).
            Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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              Sinnoh and Hoenn are number one for me. Battle Frontier and Orange Islands are tied in second. Third place is Johto and Kanto. Last place is Kalos, Alola and Unova.

              If only the regions after Sinnoh were done better then there be no last place for me.
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                #83    
              Old September 5th, 2017 (6:30 PM).
              CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is offline
                 
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Rajas20 View Post
                Got to mostly agree with Codehelmet on his ratings, especially XYZ. It became my favorite series from the beginning which surprised me greatly as I usually take 10-15 episodes to get into the story and characters. I've seen some saying Serena was annoying to them but I really couldn't relate to that as she was the near perfect companion Ash needed in the series based on his behavior compared to the past series. I fully enjoyed his much added maturity and for once seemed to be the leader of the group. Definitely added years to his character (from 10 to 17 at least for me). I have also never been one to 'ship' characters with Ash but the way Serena was written felt smooth to me and hardly forced. I may not have remembered the past seasons as greatly as I wanted to but his actions towards her seemed way different than his usual behavior. Not sure if age has something to do with it as well but I've greatly grown to appreciate what XYZ was trying to portray maturity wise.
                Thanks with the vote of confidence but im curious as to which of my rankings/ratings did you view? I did an updated one on page three where I go into a bit more detail and brought in other elements I didn't do in my initial rankings. I gave Black and White an initial boost of support in my first ranking but reconsidered it after looking at other areas of the series. Like with regards to the rivals, they kind of botched it. Trip was trying to be a Paul clone(although who's to say that wasn't a bad thing), Bianca was palpable but Stephan and other Ash rivals were just awful. The worst ones of all were Georgia and Burgandy or the rivals for Iris and Cilan. If Brock and Misty didn't have rivals, why should Iris and Cilan? Completely unnecessary if you ask me.
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                  #84    
                Old September 5th, 2017 (6:35 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by CodeHelmet View Post
                  Thanks with the vote of confidence but im curious as to which of my rankings/ratings did you view? I did an updated one on page three where I go into a bit more detail and brought in other elements I didn't do in my initial rankings. I gave Black and White an initial boost of support in my first ranking but reconsidered it after looking at other areas of the series. Like with regards to the rivals, they kind of botched it. Trip was trying to be a Paul clone(although who's to say that wasn't a bad thing), Bianca was palpable but Stephan and other Ash rivals were just awful. The worst ones of all were Georgia and Burgandy or the rivals for Iris and Cilan. If Brock and Misty didn't have rivals, why should Iris and Cilan? Completely unnecessary if you ask me.
                  That was the post I wanted to quote but couldn't because I recently joined lol. I found your analysis to be mainly spot on with everything especially how I felt in the seasons and what annoyed me as a viewer. It's also why XYZ made top for me. It was so well done and I find it hard to agree with those who say it was poor.
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                    #85    
                  Old September 5th, 2017 (6:49 PM).
                  CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is offline
                     
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Rajas20 View Post
                    That was the post I wanted to quote but couldn't because I recently joined lol. I found your analysis to be mainly spot on with everything especially how I felt in the seasons and what annoyed me as a viewer. It's also why XYZ made top for me. It was so well done and I find it hard to agree with those who say it was poor.
                    Ah well I'm sure I'm not the first one to say this but welcome to the community. I agree that they took a bit more care with XY but if there was one thing I would have loved to see was Serena catching more Pokemon than just the three she had(makes for speculating as to what three Pokemon she will catch to complete her team a never ending debate until they actually answer it with a special or side series). Outside of that and the things I mentioned, there wasn't a whole lot to complain about in XY/XYZ(except maybe Greninja and Goodra I suppose).
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                      #86    
                    Old September 5th, 2017 (7:07 PM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by CodeHelmet View Post
                      Ah well I'm sure I'm not the first one to say this but welcome to the community. I agree that they took a bit more care with XY but if there was one thing I would have loved to see was Serena catching more Pokemon than just the three she had(makes for speculating as to what three Pokemon she will catch to complete her team a never ending debate until they actually answer it with a special or side series). Outside of that and the things I mentioned, there wasn't a whole lot to complain about in XY/XYZ(except maybe Greninja and Goodra I suppose).
                      Thanks for that welcome my friend! You were the first one seeing as this is one of the few threads I've commented on. I agree with you there as well, Serena getting more Pokemon would have been nice but I'm still satisfied with her growth as a character in general. I hold hope that Greninja would return one day but not Goodra lol. I'd also love to see a Serena side series as well.
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                        #87    
                      Old September 5th, 2017 (7:23 PM). Edited September 5th, 2017 by CodeHelmet.
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                        Originally Posted by Rajas20 View Post
                        Thanks for that welcome my friend! You were the first one seeing as this is one of the few threads I've commented on. I agree with you there as well, Serena getting more Pokemon would have been nice but I'm still satisfied with her growth as a character in general. I hold hope that Greninja would return one day but not Goodra lol. I'd also love to see a Serena side series as well.
                        If you want more greets and hello's, consider making an Intro thread here. I did and it's how I got acquainted with some of the members here. Might even find mine in there if you're willing to do some digging lol.

                        In any case I'll be doing another ranking in a couple weeks. Misty and Brock might give brownie points to Kanto to bump it ahead of Hoenn.
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                          #88    
                        Old September 5th, 2017 (7:30 PM).
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by CodeHelmet View Post
                          If you want more greets and hello's, consider making an Intro thread here. I did and it's how I got acquainted with some of the members here. Might even find mine in there if you're willing to do some digging lol.

                          In any case I'll be doing another ranking in a couple weeks. Misty and Brock might give brownie points to Kanto to bump it ahead of Hoenn.
                          Will check it out! thanks man! I'll be looking out for your new ranking :D
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                            #89    
                          Old September 6th, 2017 (4:33 AM).
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                            Will check it out! thanks man! I'll be looking out for your new ranking :D
                            Welcome =]
                            I'm glad to have another XYZ lover in here ( and I LOVE ur pic) <3
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                              #90    
                            Old September 6th, 2017 (5:27 AM).
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                            Hikamaru Hikamaru is offline
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by CodeHelmet View Post
                            If you want more greets and hello's, consider making an Intro thread here. I did and it's how I got acquainted with some of the members here. Might even find mine in there if you're willing to do some digging lol.

                            In any case I'll be doing another ranking in a couple weeks. Misty and Brock might give brownie points to Kanto to bump it ahead of Hoenn.
                            Can't wait for your next rating. Will be interesting to see how Brock and Misty impact on SM's rating but I feel it may not be enough to save it from the bottom of the barrel.
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                              #91    
                            Old September 6th, 2017 (5:49 AM).
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                              Quote:
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                              Can't wait for your next rating. Will be interesting to see how Brock and Misty impact on SM's rating but I feel it may not be enough to save it from the bottom of the barrel.
                              I agree.. Gen 8, hurry up hehe
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                                #92    
                              Old September 6th, 2017 (5:51 AM). Edited September 6th, 2017 by CodeHelmet.
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                                Quote:
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                                Can't wait for your next rating. Will be interesting to see how Brock and Misty impact on SM's rating but I feel it may not be enough to save it from the bottom of the barrel.
                                Sun and Moon likely won't get much of a bump since they're relying on Kanto characters rather than the Alola characters or plot to revive interest in the series. If anything, Brock and Misty will help the Original series due to the Companions longevity(still going strong after all these years). That's why I said brownie points towards Kanto series to bump it ahead of Hoenn(Not much separates the two or even three if you include Unova). Granted if the Alola characters interaction with said Kanto characters brings out something about them that we haven't seen before, then I might give a bump to its Companion score.

                                Edit: Btw, figure I'd add the rubric I'll use for next ranking:

                                1) Ash: Is Ash a newb(aka fresh meat), a noob(regressed into his mirror self that is his polar opposite) or a badass(mature experienced trainer who knows what he's doing). Added this due to someone(will not name them) lobbying for this.
                                2) Ash's Pokemon: How strong is his team, how evolved is it and how do they perform overall.
                                3) Pokemon Comedy relief. This started in Kanto and has been a fixture of the anime since the beginning. Will rate it on how funny I found each region to be.
                                4) Companions: Who travels with Ash and how much do they progress in terms of development and towards their goal. Also will grade chemistry.
                                5) Rivals: Rivals for Ash and main protagonists will be graded.
                                6) Additional side characters: Every region had side characters that left a notable mark. Example: Duplica in Kanto region or Angie in Sinnoh region.
                                7) Series OST. This includes opening themes and other scores within the respective series.
                                8) Team Rocket: Specifically Jesse and James because well they're in all 20 seasons.
                                9) Antagonist Group: Main antagonist group for the region. With regards to Team Rocket, it's everyone but Jessie and James.
                                10) Champion/Gym Leaders. How much do they test our main protagonist?

                                All scores on a scale of 1-10 so yeah, a biggie next time around.
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                                  #93    
                                Old September 6th, 2017 (7:51 AM).
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                                  Quote:
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                                  Welcome =]
                                  I'm glad to have another XYZ lover in here ( and I LOVE ur pic) <3
                                  Definitely! The writers would have to come really hard to equal or surpass XYZ. I also don't thik they will without Serena because with that dynamic they created with her and Ash cannot be replicated and I don't think ever will. Btw, this pic is just so much of how I feel about them :D
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                                    #94    
                                  Old September 6th, 2017 (7:53 AM).
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                                    Quote:
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                                    Sun and Moon likely won't get much of a bump since they're relying on Kanto characters rather than the Alola characters or plot to revive interest in the series. If anything, Brock and Misty will help the Original series due to the Companions longevity(still going strong after all these years). That's why I said brownie points towards Kanto series to bump it ahead of Hoenn(Not much separates the two or even three if you include Unova). Granted if the Alola characters interaction with said Kanto characters brings out something about them that we haven't seen before, then I might give a bump to its Companion score.

                                    Edit: Btw, figure I'd add the rubric I'll use for next ranking:

                                    1) Ash: Is Ash a newb(aka fresh meat), a noob(regressed into his mirror self that is his polar opposite) or a badass(mature experienced trainer who knows what he's doing). Added this due to someone(will not name them) lobbying for this.
                                    2) Ash's Pokemon: How strong is his team, how evolved is it and how do they perform overall.
                                    3) Pokemon Comedy relief. This started in Kanto and has been a fixture of the anime since the beginning. Will rate it on how funny I found each region to be.
                                    4) Companions: Who travels with Ash and how much do they progress in terms of development and towards their goal. Also will grade chemistry.
                                    5) Rivals: Rivals for Ash and main protagonists will be graded.
                                    6) Additional side characters: Every region had side characters that left a notable mark. Example: Duplica in Kanto region or Angie in Sinnoh region.
                                    7) Series OST. This includes opening themes and other scores within the respective series.
                                    8) Team Rocket: Specifically Jesse and James because well they're in all 20 seasons.
                                    9) Antagonist Group: Main antagonist group for the region. With regards to Team Rocket, it's everyone but Jessie and James.
                                    10) Champion/Gym Leaders. How much do they test our main protagonist?

                                    All scores on a scale of 1-10 so yeah, a biggie next time around.
                                    By quick skimming this, XYZ still stays top tbh, in fact, maybe pushes it further forward lmao.
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                                      #95    
                                    Old September 6th, 2017 (8:18 AM). Edited September 6th, 2017 by CodeHelmet.
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                                      Quote:
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                                      By quick skimming this, XYZ still stays top tbh, in fact, maybe pushes it further forward lmao.
                                      Maybe, maybe not. Sinnoh or Diamond and Pearl was really good and we shall see if the grades come close to what I had last time(they should be identical or very close to last time and considering the top two were separated by a half point eh it could flip(never know)).
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                                        #96    
                                      Old September 6th, 2017 (8:47 AM).
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                                        Maybe, maybe not. Sinnoh or Diamond and Pearl was really good and we shall see if the grades come close to what I had last time(they should be identical or very close to last time and considering the top two were separated by a half point eh it could flip(never know)).
                                        That's quite true tbh, guess it is my slight bias still remaining :D
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                                          #97    
                                        Old September 6th, 2017 (8:56 AM).
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                                          Quote:
                                          Originally Posted by CodeHelmet View Post
                                          Thanks with the vote of confidence but im curious as to which of my rankings/ratings did you view? I did an updated one on page three where I go into a bit more detail and brought in other elements I didn't do in my initial rankings. I gave Black and White an initial boost of support in my first ranking but reconsidered it after looking at other areas of the series. Like with regards to the rivals, they kind of botched it. Trip was trying to be a Paul clone(although who's to say that wasn't a bad thing), Bianca was palpable but Stephan and other Ash rivals were just awful. The worst ones of all were Georgia and Burgandy or the rivals for Iris and Cilan. If Brock and Misty didn't have rivals, why should Iris and Cilan? Completely unnecessary if you ask me.
                                          XYZ were never on the top in the first place. Diamond and Pearl wasn't that good of an series, the rivals were really a joke, Dawn's character didn't have any good personality at all, as for Paul he was nothing more but a battle drone and didn't have anything good about him.

                                          BW did have flaws about it as an series. But at least the rivals were interesting and full of life. Iris wasn't to bad, and she was at least interesting personality wise.
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                                            #98    
                                          Old September 6th, 2017 (9:10 AM).
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                                          Frozocrone Frozocrone is offline
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                                            A 'battle drone' that ended up being Ash's best rival bar none.

                                            It's not just 'oh I have a rivalry with this guy' it's 'this guy is treating Pokemon wrong and I need to show him he's doing it incorrectly' - except that Paul consistently gets results with his methods, even going as far as brutally crushing Ash at Lake Acuity that not only reaffirms Paul's methods as legit but makes the protagonist, Ash, question himself about whether Ash's methods truly are effective and if he has been wrong all this time.

                                            It all comes to fruition at the league with Infernape. Yeah, Infernape hogged a lot of the gyms and battle (a negative point of DP) but it's storyline epitomises the rivalry between Ash and Paul. One valued brute strength above all else and couldn't harness Chimchar's power. The other valued bonds and believing every Pokemon had potential. This is evident when Chimchar wouldn't evolve under Paul and yet under Ash it evolve not only twice but also manages to control its Blaze. Infernape defeating Electivire symbolises two things, first that Paul acknowledges that Ash's methods are just as legit as his (they just take more time than Pauls, but Paul immediately tries them by thanking Electivire) and second, that Ash proved to himself that he was a good trainer despite his doubts about himself.

                                            (Dawns rivals, sure, they weren't great, Drew and Harley > Kenny and Zoey-Sue)
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                                              #99    
                                            Old September 6th, 2017 (9:55 AM).
                                            Piii's Avatar
                                            Piii Piii is offline
                                               
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                                              Ash and Paul rivarly was fairly decent, but Infernape did took away a lot of srceen time that other Pokemon could have gotten, instead it was way too overrush and was used to many times in Gyms that other Pokemon could have battle in.
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                                                #100    
                                              Old September 6th, 2017 (10:25 AM).
                                              Frozocrone's Avatar
                                              Frozocrone Frozocrone is offline
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                                                Quote:
                                                Originally Posted by Piii View Post
                                                Ash and Paul rivarly was fairly decent, but Infernape did took away a lot of srceen time that other Pokemon could have gotten, instead it was way too overrush and was used to many times in Gyms that other Pokemon could have battle in.
                                                Quote:
                                                Originally Posted by Frozocrone View Post
                                                It all comes to fruition at the league with Infernape. Yeah, Infernape hogged a lot of the gyms and battle (a negative point of DP) but it's storyline epitomises the rivalry between Ash and Paul. One valued brute strength above all else and couldn't harness Chimchar's power. The other valued bonds and believing every Pokemon had potential. This is evident when Chimchar wouldn't evolve under Paul and yet under Ash it evolve not only twice but also manages to control its Blaze. Infernape defeating Electivire symbolises two things, first that Paul acknowledges that Ash's methods are just as legit as his (they just take more time than Pauls, but Paul immediately tries them by thanking Electivire) and second, that Ash proved to himself that he was a good trainer despite his doubts about himself.
                                                I'm well aware of this.
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