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  #1    
Old October 20th, 2017 (12:22 PM).
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Let's have a fun chat about the various rivals for Ash that have appeared throughout the series, shall we?

What, in your opinion, makes a good rival for Ash? Who would you like to see return - or would have liked to have seen more of than you did - and who did you dislike the most?
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  #2    
Old October 20th, 2017 (12:55 PM).
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    Sawyer I like the nice guy rival type. I hate Paul the most out of all of them.
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      #3    
    Old October 21st, 2017 (12:29 AM).
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      I usually don't care enough to see the rivals come back. I preferred friendly rivals and like to see them have good storylines themselves.
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      Old October 21st, 2017 (9:51 AM). Edited October 21st, 2017 by FireSnow.
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      I think the best rivals for Ash are ones that force him to learn and adapt, causing growth in him as a trainer and vice versa. Then by the end there is a strong mutual respect from the two sides. This is why my favorite rivals are Gary and Paul because you can see the growth on both sides and by the end, they may not be best friends but they do respect each other and are gracious for what they've learned from each other.

      I would love to see the two of them return again soon. Gary seems like a possibility in Alola but we'll see. In all honesty, I wouldn't mind seeing Barry again either, not for the above reasons but just because I thought he was funny.

      Ones that I wish had more screen time would definitely have to be Cameron and Sawyer. Cameron was brought in incredibly late and would've benefited from more time on screen and the development that comes with it. That deus ex machina will forever be irritating. As for Sawyer, I know he got a fair amount of time but I would've liked to see him come in a little earlier because his growth as a trainer was kinda insane. Either more of a training background could've been given or they have him be introduced very shortly after Ash began his Kalos journey to keep the mentor/mentee relationship intact rather than around 1/3 of the way through or so.

      My least favorite rivals were the Hoenn and Unova (barring Cameron) rivals. These rivals just didn't seem to cause any growth for Ash or themselves. Now Cameron didn't either but I personally saw a lot of potential in his character and the dynamic between him and Ash that I didn't see in the others.
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      Old October 22nd, 2017 (10:08 AM).
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        Alain and Paul. They are the best rivals of Ash. Those two are impressive trainers. I love that they decided to make Alain a rival that Ash can never beat. It is a nice change. Ash already defeated previous rivals. He doesn't need to defeat Alain. It was time for him to have an unbeatable rival.
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        Old October 22nd, 2017 (10:16 AM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
          Alain and Paul. They are the best rivals of Ash. Those two are impressive trainers. I love that they decided to make Alain a rival that Ash can never beat. It is a nice change. Ash already defeated previous rivals. He doesn't need to defeat Alain. It was time for him to have an unbeatable rival.
          Why? To me that makes every battle with the two boring and pointless if Ash is all ways going to lose.
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          Old October 22nd, 2017 (1:19 PM).
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            Quote:
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            Why? To me that makes every battle with the two boring and pointless if Ash is all ways going to lose.
            Ash does not need to win against every rival. There is no rule that says that he would eventually beat every rival in every region.
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            Old October 22nd, 2017 (1:28 PM).
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              Ash does not need to win against every rival. There is no rule that says that he would eventually beat every rival in every region.
              Then why are they rivals if Ash is going to get wrecked every time they battle that to me makes Ash look weak.
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              Old October 22nd, 2017 (1:33 PM).
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                Quote:
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                Then why are they rivals if Ash is going to get wrecked every time they battle that to me makes Ash look weak.
                Maybe Sawyer is the rival that Ash can beat while Alain is the one he can't.
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                Old October 22nd, 2017 (1:43 PM).
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                  Quote:
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                  Maybe Sawyer is the rival that Ash can beat while Alain is the one he can't.
                  Ok maybe but still if there only 1 rival then they both have to win and lose
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                    #11    
                  Old October 22nd, 2017 (2:21 PM).
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                    Quote:
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                    Ok maybe but still if there only 1 rival then they both have to win and lose
                    Writers get to decide if Ash should beat his rival or not. What i do know is Alain was never meant to be beaten by Ash and was the reason for Ash to lose the pokemon league.
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                      #12    
                    Old October 22nd, 2017 (2:37 PM).
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                      Quote:
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                      Writers get to decide if Ash should beat his rival or not. What i do know is Alain was never meant to be beaten by Ash and was the reason for Ash to lose the pokemon league.
                      If Ash has a rival that is unbeatable and can win vs anyone it will get boring.
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                        #13    
                      Old October 22nd, 2017 (3:22 PM).
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                        Quote:
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                        If Ash has a rival that is unbeatable and can win vs anyone it will get boring.
                        Alain was probably a one off. I never said all rivals would be unbeatable.
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                          #14    
                        Old October 22nd, 2017 (3:26 PM).
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                          Quote:
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                          Alain was probably a one off. I never said all rivals would be unbeatable.
                          Ok then will I like a rival that will be equal to Ash as a trainer.
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                            #15    
                          Old October 24th, 2017 (2:31 PM). Edited October 24th, 2017 by BettyNewbie.
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                            Am I the only person who wants to see the actual game rivals get their time in the spotlight? It often feels like this show goes out of its way to ignore game rivals, either having them not appear at all (Silver, Wally, Hugh) or shoving them into the background in favor of an OC rival (Barry, Bianca, Cheren, XY friends).

                            It's even more egregious when two of the OC rivals (Paul, Sawyer) are blatant stand-ins for unused game rivals -- If you want to have Silver and Wally, why not just use the actual characters instead of going through the trouble of creating these obvious ripoffs?

                            Gary was the only game rival that handled even decently well, and even he mostly became background material after Kanto. So far, it looks like Hau is going to be another Silver/Wally and be completely ignored.
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                            Old October 25th, 2017 (6:14 AM). Edited October 25th, 2017 by Absolitetion.
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                              I'd favour rivals that would be on par with Ash, or that (s)he edges him out slightly.
                              Someone who gives Ash the drive and desire to beat him and vice versa.
                              There has to be mutual respect towards each other.

                              But also I want that the rivals that learn from each other and have made progress each time they battle again, so I can get hyped and root for both of them.

                              A little bit of arrogance/cockyness is okay. I'd mostly like it if it's mostly for tease/banter or work up each other in good gesture.

                              In my opinion, Gary was a good example. though he was on the limit with that sometimes. I also hope he comes back in Alola (even if it is briefly).
                              I'd say Alain was also pretty good since both were really competitive, though they did not work each other up that much, I think. Sawyer was also a pretty good rival.
                              Paul however was in my eyes just an arrogant little muk who didn't really show respect to Ash until the very end, so I distaste him a lot.
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                              Old December 6th, 2017 (9:06 PM).
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                                Paul.

                                He is by far the best rival Ash had to date. Both of them grew together from hate to respect each other as trainers. They've had the best battles in the whole series. They are both linked to Chimchar which plays an important rol in DP's plot. According to what I know Paul will return in the show when Ash and him face each other in the Champions League tournament after Ash wins a regional league, it was implied this way.

                                I hope he returns and faces Ash once more.
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                                  #18    
                                Old December 8th, 2017 (2:55 PM).
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                                  I liked Trip even though most fans hated him. He needed a bit more screen-time and development sure, but I loved his team and his personality.
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                                    #19    
                                  Old December 8th, 2017 (9:03 PM). Edited December 8th, 2017 by Kuzehiko.
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                                    Also, I want to add according to a interview Alain was never meant to lose against Ash hence Ash did have an unbeatable rival.
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                                      #20    
                                    Old December 8th, 2017 (10:07 PM). Edited December 8th, 2017 by SH60.
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                                      Quote:
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                                      Also, I want to add according to a interview Alain was never meant to lose against Ash hence Ash did have an unbeatable rival.
                                      Why is that to me that makes the rivalry boring and pointless because the same thing is always going to happen then whats the point of hyping their final battle if Alain was always going to win.
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                                        #21    
                                      Old December 9th, 2017 (9:40 AM).
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                                        Quote:
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                                        Why is that to me that makes the rivalry boring and pointless because the same thing is always going to happen then whats the point of hyping their final battle if Alain was always going to win.
                                        Yeah, I agree.
                                        I still remind when they clickbaited us with the episode title about Ash winning the Kalos league.

                                        I'd be okay if Ash loses to Alain in the Kalos league but Ash should've beat him at least once previous to Kalos league.

                                        Makes me remember of how Dawn didn't beat Zoe not even once. What a pointless character and rivalry.
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                                          #22    
                                        Old December 9th, 2017 (10:36 AM).
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                                          The title was never clickbait. Fans got themselves overexcited for no reason. The title did not say Ash would win and it did not implied that he would.

                                          It was obvious Ash was not going to win the league. Ash does not win leagues that exist in regions that is in both games and anime. That is why he was allowed to win orange islands league since it was anime exclusive.

                                          Alain was meant to be a rival that Ash wouldn't be able to beat this time. Ash already beaten past rivals. This time in kalos, Ash has a rival that is simply too good. It was time for Ash to have a rival that he can't beat.

                                          This is my opinion though.
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                                            #23    
                                          Old December 9th, 2017 (10:38 AM).
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                                            Quote:
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                                            Yeah, I agree.
                                            I still remind when they clickbaited us with the episode title about Ash winning the Kalos league.

                                            I'd be okay if Ash loses to Alain in the Kalos league but Ash should've beat him at least once previous to Kalos league.

                                            Makes me remember of how Dawn didn't beat Zoe not even once. What a pointless character and rivalry.
                                            And this is why I don't get why some people say this is a good rivalry. To me a good rivalry is when both side are somewhere near the same level of power or at the very least have one side learn from the other and get better that way.
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                                              #24    
                                            Old December 9th, 2017 (2:30 PM). Edited December 9th, 2017 by Kuzehiko.
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                                              Quote:
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                                              And this is why I don't get why some people say this is a good rivalry. To me a good rivalry is when both side are somewhere near the same level of power or at the very least have one side learn from the other and get better that way.
                                              Well, that's what you like to see in a rivalry but not the true definition of rivalry instead. Even if a trainer does not beat an opponent in several times they've faced each other it does not mean it is not a rivalry just because the other can't beat him.

                                              On the other hand I agree if either rival is unbeatable then it makes such rivalry boring and pointless.
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                                                #25    
                                              Old December 9th, 2017 (3:45 PM). Edited December 9th, 2017 by Quiji.
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                                                Ash never beating Alain didn't surprise me since Alain was essentially at E4 level while Ash was an inconsistent mess.
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