To Moderators/Administrators

DarkMage31 · Mar 16, 2004

I remember the days when Rm2K fans used to post in the hacks/roms section of The PokeCommunity. I remember my second post. It went like this:

Is "other games" truely a suitable category to place rm2k related threads? In all technicallity, RM2K is not a game, game being defined as:

Main Entry: 1game
Pronunciation: 'gAm
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gamen; akin to Old High German gaman amusement
Date: before 12th century
1 a (1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement : PLAY (2) : the equipment for a game b : often derisive or mocking jesting : FUN, SPORT <make game of a nervous player>
2 a : a procedure or strategy for gaining an end : TACTIC b : an illegal or shady scheme or maneuver : RACKET
3 a (1) : a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other (2) : a division of a larger contest (3) : the number of points necessary to win (4) : points scored in certain card games (as in all fours) by a player whose cards count up the highest (5) : the manner of playing in a contest (6) : the set of rules governing a game (7) : a particular aspect or phase of play in a game or sport <a football team's kicking game> b plural : organized athletics c (1) : a field of gainful activity : LINE <the newspaper game> (2) : any activity undertaken or regarded as a contest involving rivalry, strategy, or struggle <the dating game> <the game of politics>; also : the course or period of such an activity <got into aviation early in the game> (3) : area of expertise : SPECIALTY 3 <comedy is not my game>
4 a (1) : animals under pursuit or taken in hunting; especially : wild animals hunted for sport or food (2) : the flesh of game animals b archaic : PLUCK c : a target or object especially of ridicule or attack -- often used in the phrase fair game
synonym see FUN
- game?like /-lIk/ adjective

So with that said, RM2K clearly doesn't qualify as a "game." Although specified in a previous post, I believe that all posts in relation to RPG Maker 2000-2003 should remain where they initially placed, having no relevance to any other topic.

Although the issue may arrise of overall lack of organization with no set topic of classification for "RM2K." The only solution of this dilemma is to create another topic for discussion involving the replication / creation of pokemon games; that is, if you take my advice. On the flip side, if the description above is legitimate ("involving replication / creation") the obvious best location for an RM2K thread is under the Roms section, where I believe this thread was previously situated.

Then we can get into the psychological reasoning of the original creator of this thread. It is apparent that this individual is not a spammer, therefore without ill-intention to the board. He would pick the topic of discussion he sees best fit to categorize the discussion he wishes to begin. So, if the Roms/Hacks section is what he saw fit first, there should be no reason to move a thread to a second-rate topic except to exercise moderator powers (with all due respect, of course.)

This brings me to the end of my post. I will now gracefully withdraw, leaving you to dwell on my words of wisdom (hopefully). I certainly hope you are not offended by this post, for there was no ill-intention involved - only the intention to do my part to make this board a better place for everyone.

So, you can see I felt (and still feel) very strongly that this board can be a nicer place for everybody through greater organization. There has been a great increase in people interested in making their own Pokemon game, and it is only fair those people have a forum to themselves. Here is a PM I sent out to some of the most prominent Rm2k community members:

All of you have expressed an interest in game making, specifically with RM2K(3). I believe it is time we take a stand and petition for a forum made for RM2K discussions. We all know such discussions do not belong in "Other Games" because RM2K is not a "game," it is simply an engine to help us make games simply, quickly and effeciently. There has been such a great increase of people starting their own games and playing other people's demos that I believe it is only fair that game makers should be separated from people talking about games other than Pokemon. Is my game, Pokemon Lunar/Solar, not a Pokemon game? Must I stand for having to go to a section other than what it deserves to provide people with hours of long hard work and effort? I think not! If we all ban together and all post, the moderators will have no choice but to provide us with our needs. After all, isn't that what they are there for? After they see we have expressed an interest, they will be more likely to accomodate for us. By signing this petition you are not going against any rules or violating any trust. So please sign, for a better, more organized PM for all!

So, Mods and Admins alike, I believe it is time to take action. But before you say there's not enought posts, not enough interest, just one sticky do-it-all request thread, consider the facts.

There are over twenty members interested in Rm2k game making
There are over 50 topics including the key word "Rm2k" under Other Games
There are over 150 posts pertaining to Rm2k

So please consider our request. And yes, when I say our, I mean our. I sent out a petition to several active Rm2k members, and I am rapidly getting responses.
Among the first to respond are:

PNG
Daegon_Kimeron

and I am rapidly getting more and more replies!

Greed · Mar 16, 2004

I don't think mods/admins would waste their time doing this. =/ But its not my place to decide, just the mods and admins --;;

*dies*

Kairi · Mar 16, 2004

We did consider a forum, or a sub-forum for RM2K quite some time ago. Interest really seemed to wane after a few weeks of hype. Don't get me wrong, I'm aware there a lot of dedicated RM2K users here at PC that do work hard on their games. However, unless activity picked up significantly and remained stable for a long period of time, it's kind of a short-term investment. Like I said, there are seem dedicated game-makers with RM2K. However a lot of the posts and threads were made in hype, after one particular game was created and distributed by frostweaver. Many of the people who got interested quickly dropped it, as often happens in hype. I'd love to watch your games blossom and grow, but can't accommodate four or five people with a sub-forum. I'm willing though to see how many people truly would believe in a section just for it. Real numbers, by people who would stay active in it and not make it an indulgence for but a few. I would be interested in your response and how many replies you get to your PM, certainly. Some successful productions, even short would be a proving point as well. I understand these games take a long time to make, sure. I don't know if anyone here at PC save frostweaver has produced and distributed a game though. Feel free to prove me wrong here, but as of the time being I don't see a large need for more than a stickyed topic or two.

DragonTrainer · Mar 16, 2004

Yes, I also feel the same way about these things.RM2K games are just like ROMS-many seem to be interested in them at first, and a lot of people seem to make them.But in the end of it all, over 3/4 of the games are either canceled, or people just lose interest in them.Of course, the very dedicated people who do in fact produce a hack or game, with a lot of skills and creativity, and with success, are not fogotten.It's just that not a lot goes on with them.I guess until we see a lot of dedication to this, and a lot of members wanting a sub-forum, with very many succesful things going on in here, I don't think that we will see a sub-forum very soon =/

~DragonTrainer

Latios184 · Mar 17, 2004

Yeah, go Darkmage!!!!!!!!!! :D

DarkMage31 · Mar 17, 2004

I understand your perspective, but frostweaver is NOT the only one. I am currently making a game I update practically every weekend that people can download whenever they want (http://darkmage310.tripod.com). Games do require dedication and interest, which is precisely why we SHOULD have the subforum. Instead of quick, two post threads, we'll have quality discussions that don't fade. Just my thread alone, we have seven pages, and with 25 posts per page, that's 175 posts, just my thread alone! Multiply that by the approximately 20 other members (3500 posts) and you get a short term investment? People ask eachother for help, advice, and guidance, and we rely on each other as a small sub-community (hint:subforum) to make our games as good as possible. As for hype, hype is practically nonexistant. Before you start screaming about hype, observe the following definition:

a narcotics addict

(www.m-w.com)
And I don't think we have any narcotic addicts!
Alright, on the serious side, I understand your point about hype. But that applies to all games, right? Take Pokemon Red and Blue versions. Don't try to tell me that forum gets as much traffic as the Ruby/Saphire forum? The reason? Hype! Red/Blue are outdated games- overshadowed by the newest versions. People post in the forums for advice, hints, and tips, but after the next game comes out, people start playing that one and leave the old game alone for a while! Does that sound at all familiar to: me creating a game, creating an update, people playing it, hype dying down, and then me updating again? I thought so! Ergo, I believe that exceptions should not be made for professionally designed games over amature games. I say that on the basis of discrimination. It's really a troubel having to sort through all the real "Other Game" threads to find Rm2k related ones.

DarkMage31 · Mar 19, 2004

Won't anybody read this?
and sorry (so much) for the double post

Shadow · Mar 19, 2004

We were considering it but decided not to due to a sudden decrease in popularity. I don't see why not, it will get about as many posts as that poetry subforum in Other Roleplay and Fanfiction. But meh I don't care that much.

If anyone flames a staff member (or any other member for that member) here just once this thread will be closed, until then be sure to have an intelligent discussion on the subforum idea...

PGN · Mar 19, 2004

er...it's PGN lol! and how about we just make it a sub-forum in Other Games and see how popular it is!

Kairi · Mar 19, 2004

Well it certainly does seem you have a following and are very serious about this. I'll take a look at the RM2K stuff here and reply later.

DarkMage31 · Mar 19, 2004

No, no, no one's flaming anyone. Intelligent discussion indeed!

Sorry about your name PGN, or was it PNG? lol!

Anyway, I just got replies from mewsprodige and chaostheory, so that's another two on my list.

Not much traffic? We practically get a new member about rm2k every day!

Well it certainly does seem you have a following and are very serious about this. I'll take a look at the RM2K stuff here and reply later.

Yeah, I know I can get pretty hyper about this kind of stuff. I own my own message board (and it's as organized as |-|3||) so when I see an inconvenience and it's not in my power to fix it, it just burns deep down inside. Yes, I'm power hungry that way.

Also, much of the reason I'm following through with this is because this message board would be unique in the way that it deals with Pokemon AND Rm2K. Most RM2K board don't deal with pokemon and shun anyone who takes it seriously (a.k.a not making a "Gota kill 'em all" parady). I would greatly appreciate if you consider and provide a unique experience for game makers.

DarkMage31 · Mar 23, 2004

Any updates? Just for the heck of it, read this quote by our very own moderator:

Please ask for RM2K/3 help in the appropriate thread (if we had a subforum we wouldn't have to worry about it...)

Getting any hints? People should be able to ask for help when they want it.

Alakazam · Mar 23, 2004

DarkMage31 said:
Any updates? Just for the heck of it, read this quote by our very own moderator:

Getting any hints? People should be able to ask for help when they want it.

That's like asking for a Robopon forum, just because it is a rip off RPG of Pokemon. I did hear that the N64 game that never made it to Canada and the US was pretty darn good though.

Kairi · Mar 23, 2004

I'll speak to Kwesi, our admin about it pretty soon. I still need to look through the entirety of the thread, though I have been checking it.

DarkMage31 · Mar 24, 2004

Okay! I'd be interested to know how this will turn out!

Kairi · Mar 24, 2004

Hmm. There does seem to be quite a bit of interest, though as far as experts are concerned it seems it's pretty confined. Like that signature list, a bit short. Your guys work is undeniable, especially you yourself. Though I'm just not sure if making a sub-forum would do any more than create a temporary rush, followed by a cool down. I'll still ask Kwesi, but I dunno.

Master Kwesi Nkromah · Mar 25, 2004

Hey. Well the first thing I thought about when you guys decided to ask for a sub-forum named RM2K was why do these guys want to form a separate entity within the community. Playing refuge to abandoned forum members was somewhat of a goal of ours. We were and still are eager to welcome refugees into our community but our hospitality will only encompass so much.

That being said, I kairi?s opinion caries allot of weight with me. If she believes that you guys warrant a'lil attention I?m not going to completely dismiss your request.

Think things are coming together for ya? Don?t get your hopes to high, I?m nearing the end of my 2nd year in college and my time is sparse. There isn?t much left to for PC dealings (and there are allot of em) BUT I promise I will research what I need to and get back to you.

Stay active? If yer face aint around, I?ll forget bout u. :paranoid:

Kairi · Mar 25, 2004

As long as you don't block me from AIM I shalln't let you forget anything. =p
So...uhh go research and discuss it with me or something. >.>

DarkMage31 · Mar 25, 2004

I have no idea what you mean when you say "refugee." You think the lot of us were kicked out of other rm2k communities? If so, you are severly wrong. So wrong it's insulting. I'm a board admin myself at other places and one thing I've learned is never ask questions. There was one guy who joined one of my board once. I did some research on him and it turns out he did a lot of writing inappropriate rap and stuff I would never accept on my board. So I wrote to my mod staff and asked them what to do about this guy. Well, we gave him a chance, and as it turns out he was a very smart enthusiastic person who greatly contributed to our discussions. To say we are refugees is really not right. No offense, of course. I hope you agree that it is good to speek your mind when appropriate.

Well the first thing I thought about when you guys decided to ask for a sub-forum named RM2K was why do these guys want to form a separate entity within the community.

What? Why did that cross your mind to begin with? Why do we have seperate forums for, say, art under the pokemon section, and Other Art? Why do we have the subforum "Roms/Hack?" Well, simply to create a seperate entity within the community to accomodate different fascets of the Pokemon spectrum. How is making our own pokemon games from scratch any lesser than hacking illegal roms? Beats me. I can be wrong though.

Master Kwesi Nkromah · Mar 25, 2004

I didn't mean to offend anyone when i referd to you as refugee. I think you're using it in the wrong context. By refugee I mean to say, an individule that seeks refuge( A source of help, relief, or comfort in times of trouble) because they're home forum isn't running nemore. I think you took it a little to literally and i should have phrased it better. Sorry.

I would continue but I gotta go.. cya

To Moderators/Administrators

RM2K(3) Master

Banned

The Original $staff_title

Shiver me timbers!

Sonic/Pokemon Lover

RM2K(3) Master

RM2K(3) Master

Original Flavor Darkness

I am now PGNFounder

The Original $staff_title

RM2K(3) Master

RM2K(3) Master

Banned

The Original $staff_title

RM2K(3) Master

The Original $staff_title

Master Kwesi Nkromah

Guest

The Original $staff_title

RM2K(3) Master

Master Kwesi Nkromah

Guest