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  #26    
Old September 3rd, 2016 (7:18 AM).
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  #27    
Old September 4th, 2016 (9:09 AM). Edited September 4th, 2016 by mister2lua.
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My recent works, Ho-oh and Lugia gijinkas. Hope you like it :D
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  #28    
Old September 18th, 2016 (2:41 PM).
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Whoa it's been awhile since a post, huh? Well, I guess I'l ask a question then!

To hobby artists, to students, to people wanting to learn art: how do you feel about receiving criticism? Have you receive good feedback, do you care at all for it honestly, and how do you feel receiving feedback (good or bad). I like constructive criticism, and I like giving it out to people who want to improve. I sometimes get anxious when I have critiques in class, but I guess it's because I can see people's expressions before they talk about a piece.
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Old September 18th, 2016 (6:05 PM).
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Welp, i would be happy to accept critics that is meaningful, and also does not have harsh critics too.
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  #30    
Old September 18th, 2016 (6:29 PM).
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Whoa it's been awhile since a post, huh? Well, I guess I'l ask a question then!

To hobby artists, to students, to people wanting to learn art: how do you feel about receiving criticism? Have you receive good feedback, do you care at all for it honestly, and how do you feel receiving feedback (good or bad). I like constructive criticism, and I like giving it out to people who want to improve. I sometimes get anxious when I have critiques in class, but I guess it's because I can see people's expressions before they talk about a piece.
I crave for criticism, really. I feel I have improved a lot after reading the criticism and feedback given to me. However, I feel like most people fail to give criticism here on PC.

Here are some technical definitions of the word:

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noun
1.
the act of passing judgment as to the merits of anything.
2.
the act of passing severe judgment; censure; faultfinding.
3.
the act or art of analyzing and evaluating or judging the quality of a literary or artistic work, musical performance, art exhibit, dramatic production, etc.
4.
a critical comment, article, or essay; critique.


What does an artist expect (or at should IMO) from others when receiving criticism:

Scenario 1: The critic is not well-versed on that particular branch of art.
When I ask for these kind of people to take a look at my work, I expect them to tell me if what I'm showing them is visually appealing for them. Chances are that a friend will tell you it's nice, regardless of how pretty/ugly your work is; because of that, I ask these people for specific feedback. Often I show them other pieces that I believe are better than mine to give them a point of reference. In this case I'd expect the critic to tell me why the other piece is better than mine and how do they think I could make my work more visually appealing to them.
Scenario 2: The critic is well-versed on that particular branch of art.
I expect to hear from their personal experiences. If you considered yourself better/have more experience I'd expect you to relate, to empathize with me and look back to your own time. What did you do to overcome this issue you see on my work? If you're saying this particular aspect of the piece is poorly done then I'd expect to hear a solution-ish.

The person then has to provide a way they'd think would help me to improve. Because pure and void criticism is frowned upon to me. You are being paid like drama critics, those people are criticizing professionals and high budget productions.

If the critic is A) More experienced than the artist receiving the criticism; they should not focus on pointing out the flaws, so much as they should be giving help to those flaws, or B) Just a friend helping them out; tell them what you honestly think of what they're seeing without crushing their dreams and encouraging them to keep up with it.
TL;DR: Saying things like "your art is boring, has no sense of flow, depth,etc" and explaining what those things are... Is void criticism that helps no one and only makes you look bad. Focus on how to help the artist overcome their flows, not on pointing out their flaws.
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Old September 18th, 2016 (6:43 PM).
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Focus on how to help the artist overcome their flows, not on pointing out their flaws.
This is what I want to stress on sooooo much when listening or reading feedback. AND I definitely think we should stress this on here too. Help people, don't discourage.
Both scenarios I think are good, I relate to them as well. I like asking both someone who understands art process how my work looks to them and I ask someone with little art background. Just to see if I got my message across or if someone says "Something looks off.." and then I can look at it myself and figure out what's wrong. It's fun to ask my friend, who is a graphic arts major, how my piece look when I'm usually surrounded by illustrators who care a lot about technique. Because he was taught more about communication and ideas, he can tell me if something looks really nice but the concept is boring. It's nice to have different perspectives, I guess is what I'm going for, aha!
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Old September 18th, 2016 (6:45 PM).
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I think I mentioned this once in another thread in A&D (or maybe it was for something similar, but I'm remembering it wrong), but I'm no good with receiving criticism. It's very rare that I'll ask for critique, mostly out of anxiety. In fact, I don't remember if I ever have asked for critique in the three and a half years I've practiced any sort of art. Ironically, in most of the critiques I've done, I tend to be very harsh. It's a sign that I need to express what I'm thinking in words more, I think.

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However, I feel like most people fail to give criticism here on PC.
*after most recent critique, now feels very self conscious and hides under a rock*
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  #33    
Old September 18th, 2016 (6:54 PM).
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I think I mentioned this once in another thread in A&D (or maybe it was for something similar, but I'm remembering it wrong), but I'm no good with receiving criticism. It's very rare that I'll ask for critique, mostly out of anxiety. In fact, I don't remember if I ever have asked for critique in the three and a half years I've practiced any sort of art. Ironically, in most of the critiques I've done, I tend to be very harsh. It's a sign that I need to express what I'm thinking in words more, I think.


*after most recent critique, now feels very self conscious and hides under a rock*
I think I know what you're talking about - and dontkillmeplease - but in the recent crit I think you did express some good points, but some things could have been explain a little further to help the artist figure out what to work on. Just, a little more suggestion, and there was just some things that didn't need to be said/said nicer. I think you have a good eye and experience, but you want to try and help the artist. Be clear and give some suggestions they can hopefully follow!
Also,ah, as you get to a point you're not satisfied with your work you might feel different about crits. Everyone feels anxious at some point about crits, but I'm sure it will get better for you!
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  #34    
Old September 18th, 2016 (7:05 PM).
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What ana said! Don't take ir personally though; I know you're pretty calm so I'm sure you had the best of intentions in mind.

Note: That was not directed specifically to your last critique.

Another that should be discussed is reciprocity within artists; Someone comments a gallery you comment theirs. This is, I believe, A&D's main issue. Only a certain galleries get all the attention whilst others end up ignored. Even if you're not a fan of graphics, hand drawings or whatever, you can still appreciate everyone's work.

As a general rule of thumb, if someone posts on your gallery, you return the favour.
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Old September 18th, 2016 (7:18 PM).
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I think I know what you're talking about - and dontkillmeplease - but in the recent crit I think you did express some good points, but some things could have been explain a little further to help the artist figure out what to work on. Just, a little more suggestion, and there was just some things that didn't need to be said/said nicer. I think you have a good eye and experience, but you want to try and help the artist. Be clear and give some suggestions they can hopefully follow!
Also,ah, as you get to a point you're not satisfied with your work you might feel different about crits. Everyone feels anxious at some point about crits, but I'm sure it will get better for you!
Ah, figures. I have a bad habit of doing that trying to be so concise that my thoughts often get lost in other thoughts. But yeah, you're totally right, I've been told that by people I need to go more into detail by quite a number of people, not just critiquing.

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Another that should be discussed is reciprocity within artists; Someone comments a gallery you comment theirs. This is, I believe, A&D's main issue. Only a certain galleries get all the attention whilst others end up ignored. Even if you're not a fan of graphics, hand drawings or whatever, you can still appreciate everyone's work.

As a general rule of thumb, if someone posts on your gallery, you return the favour.
Ah, that was the thread I was thinking about! Yeah it is sort of a problem. Definitely feeling it's a problem after that one request thread with the Hawlucha signature. Sometimes I feel it's sort of an issue with people not being so familiar with art mediums.

no passive aggressive nope not at all no sarcasm here either
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  #36    
Old September 18th, 2016 (7:19 PM).
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There's other ways of addressing artists besides critiquing their work to! Users who are not as familiar with art can always express themselves through the whole "compliment sandwich" technique, without necessarily going in depth into how a flaw can be improved, but providing a new and unique interpretation of a perceived "negative", for lack of a better term. Even posts that aren't the height of artistic feedback are certainly welcome! :)

As for encouraging better posting etiquette, well, I think you know where I stand on that. But! I do think the place to begin is to lead by example and hope others follow suit.
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  #37    
Old September 18th, 2016 (7:25 PM).
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There's other ways of addressing artists besides critiquing their work to! Users who are not as familiar with art can always express themselves through the whole "compliment sandwich" technique, without necessarily going in depth into how a flaw can be improved, but providing a new and unique interpretation of a perceived "negative", for lack of a better term. Even posts that aren't the height of artistic feedback are certainly welcome!
That was my point on the first scenario I provided, but if I were to point out a flaw I'd less explain why it was done wrong and how do I think would look better. No need to go in-depth, but one should expatiate further. If one were to make a light-hearted compliment or feedback, one should be aware of better ways to do it. I think empathy is key, which is why if a post isn't really thorough or a deep analisis of a piece, a compliment or showing support for someone's work is always welcome and appreciated.
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  #38    
Old September 18th, 2016 (7:36 PM). Edited September 18th, 2016 by Fairy.
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Exactly! As artists sharing our art on a forum not dedicated to the subject, we should be mindful not to expect critiques that are immaculate, but willing to offer critiques of that calibre to our more advanced level artists and anyone looking to improve. It can come down to so many factors why one would not do an in-depth critique, but you're right, I do think it says something to have options and recourses available for those who wish to learn better ways of expressing their opinions to other artists.

What do you guys think of putting together a small, "here's a way to critique (advanced/novice editions etc)" resource? To help new members or remind veterans the real benefits of a proper cirque.

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thoughts?
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  #39    
Old September 18th, 2016 (7:39 PM). Edited September 18th, 2016 by Anastasia.R.
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What do you guys think of putting together a small, "here's a way to critique (advanced/novice editions etc)" resource? To help new members or removed veterans the real benefits of a proper cirque.
sweats because I might've talk to Nina about writing one already
I started gathering some resources for examples and stuff. :x I'm open to help though!
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Old September 18th, 2016 (7:40 PM).
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Haha, even better. ;)
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  #41    
Old September 18th, 2016 (7:43 PM).
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What do you guys think of putting together a small, "here's a way to critique (advanced/novice editions etc)" resource? To help new members or remind veterans the real benefits of a proper cirque.
Wait, we didn't have one?

*checks*

I've been lurking too many forums for this. But yeah, that would totally be great.
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  #42    
Old September 18th, 2016 (7:43 PM).
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I think it'd be an incredible asset for A&D. If there's ever a thread about it, stick the hell out of it
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Old September 18th, 2016 (7:47 PM).
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I'm glad y'all are interested! I definitely want to get the point across we want to help and encourage artists to improve or look at something in a different perspective. I want to make it so that anyone can learn how to analyze art a little more critically no matter what skill level. You can explain or get past the "I think something is wrong but I don't know what" sorta comments. I guess those are my goals atm! More encouragement overall when making posts and to encourage people to discuss and talk. C:
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Old September 18th, 2016 (7:48 PM).
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Wait, we didn't have one?

*checks*

I've been lurking too many forums for this. But yeah, that would totally be helpful.
In the rules we have more of a "what not to post" than a real, substantial critiquing guide. But considering the efficiency of our resource makers I can promise it will be a lengthy enjoyable read.

But seriously if you guys wanna discuss this and move forward with it, just shoot me or Nina a draft. I trust y'all to get the right information together.

@Johnny damn right we sticky dat muk all day.
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  #45    
Old September 18th, 2016 (7:53 PM).
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I can convey my ideas to ana, but since my english is not a sight to behold these days I think she should post it.
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Old September 19th, 2016 (1:51 AM).
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i've been working in the background already dw about it

My thought was not to have it as a stickied thread, but as a post inside the Rule & Guidelines thread. It's something that people should read when they enter the section and wouldn't have to worry about sticky clutter.
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  #47    
Old September 19th, 2016 (1:52 AM).
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i've been working in the background already dw about it

My thought was not to have it as a stickied thread, but as a post inside the Rule & Guidelines thread. It's something that people should read when they enter the section and wouldn't have to worry about sticky clutter.
I agree with this (not that it matters).
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Old September 19th, 2016 (7:02 AM).
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ANyways, Work In Progress Art.

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Old September 19th, 2016 (8:16 AM).
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ANyways, Work In Progress Art.

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Aw yes, your lighting and values are improving! C:

The one small thing that might need some fixing is the piece of rock/land (?) in the middle. The curved line messes with the perspective of it. Your perspective of the cave walls and ceiling is great! I have to say - good job on the perspective and working on values! If I could suggest anything else, it just might be to go a little further in detail of the rocks. You have a good idea of lighting, you can look at caves and rocks and study the texture and lines to make it look like rocks! I think your outlines suggest it well, but you can make it more realistic with shading and lines. Rocks have different patterns sometimes, some have cracks on them with an indent, and so on! The shading is a little sharper in most rocks (smoother rocks and pebbles have softer looking shading) so you could have a ton of fun with that if you like geometric shapes!

Maybe your reference has more curved lines or shading - but either is good, have fun with it! But that extra time on making those rocks look real would be more engaging for viewers! c:
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Old September 19th, 2016 (8:33 AM). Edited September 21st, 2016 by mister2lua.
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My recent work. Hope you like it :D
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