5th Gen Platform Discussion

I'll have to agree with a lot of the above people, it is highly likely to be released on the 3Ds, but most likely not a Wii :P

Rivin said:

I understand that, but the fact is, after wasting all my money on the XL, I can't very well afford the 3DS at the moment. I have to use the credit from my XL and still save up some money. I'm just gonna wait till the price drops again is what I'm saying...

Also on topic, yeah but there is a reason why gold and silver combined sold 14.5 million copies, and Crystal sold only 3.7 million.. Not because it was "the same game" either... yellow version sold 8.2 million units compared to R/B/G's 20 million (and it was the "same game") So I wonder what the reason could be? Maybe the console release decision?

And I understand it is the company's choice, but if they want their game to sell well, it'd be easier for them to release it to EVERYONE.. I'm not gonna argue my viewpoint on it since everyone seems to disagree, but I can only hope it is released for the DS for everyone, that way GF and Nintendo can do well, and ALL the players can play the game.

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I didnt realize the sales difference between the gen 2 games, good job on bringing that out. I see where your getting at. I can almost kind of agree, but the thing is by the time the 3rd game comes out dont you think the majority of people will have a 3ds?

Rivin said:

Also on topic, yeah but there is a reason why gold and silver combined sold 14.5 million copies, and Crystal sold only 3.7 million.. Not because it was "the same game" either... yellow version sold 8.2 million units compared to R/B/G's 20 million (and it was the "same game") So I wonder what the reason could be? Maybe the console release decision?

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You were probably basing on this: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Pokemon
The problem with that page is the fact it shows only Japan and US sales. And what about the rest of the world?
The global sales are shown here: http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=pokemon&publisher=&console=&genre=&minSales=0.01&results=50

Basing on global sales it can be seen that Crystal was sold in almost the same amount like Emerald which was released for the same console like R/S. So console release decision is not always the main matter of low or high sales.

I think the 3DS needs the third game more than the DSi does. I feel like the DSi has been taken to it's limit and there isn't anywhere to go but down in terms of innovation, uniqueness in games. Making the third game on 3DS could open us up to a new level of graphical capabilities they we couldn't achieve on DSi, and I think it's time for a major overhaul in these RPGs. That being said, I only just got my DSi (XL) last year, the console was previously way too small for my fat hands, lol. As badly as I would want to play the third game, I'd have to hold off for a design revision. In actuality, I can see a larger 3DS being announced within the next year with built-in Circle Pad Pro features. Here's hoping.

Please don't use VGChartz for anything resembling accurate sales data. The information from Wikipedia is also lacking because it doesn't take into account the European markets.

Pokémon game sales need to be used in context. Yellow was the first new release since Red and Blue for US markets and made to cash-in on an immensely popular animated series and animated movie franchise. Conversely, Pokémon Crystal was released at what we can probably call the point where the Pokémon mega-fad begins to die down and we get to Generation 3, where sales figures dropped dramatically. See also Pokémon Stadium 2 (2001) supposedly selling just over half of the first Stadium (2000).

It doesn't have a special tie-in like playing as Ash and Pikachu to hold it up, and an important note to make is that by the time Pokémon Crystal was released to American and European markets, the Game Boy Advance had already seen it's worldwide release.

I think the only problem about BW is the back sprites they can make the back sprites of the Pokemons less pixelated.
I think the DS is becoming obsolete but not the DSi.

I think the third games will come out on both the DS and 3DS platform. I think this because DS games are still going strong and not many people I know have the 3DS. so both is very likely in my opinion.

I don't know about you, but when the 2012 release line-up consists almost entirely of puzzle games, sports games and tie ins to movies / TV shows, then I consider that DS games are no longer going strong.

I asked Gamestop to print up coming Releases for the DS, 3DS, and the other three systems I owned. The DS list had like 5 games. Mostly small ones that no one will likely hear about.

GameFly lists 13 games as "coming soon" to NDS. Not one of them is first party. I think it's safe to assume by now, NDS is dead or dying. 3DS is now, and has been since launch, the top priority handheld platform for The Big N.

I hope its on the ads cos that obviously means 3d pokemon hehe and tbh it will most probably be as that will make people buy a 3ds although I wouldn't be surprised if it came out on dsi swell :)

It's probably going to be 3DS. Definitely not Wii, there never has been a "real" pokemon
game on the Wii. And DSi and DS games are generally the same, except for the camera.
Though I believe Nobunaga's Ambition+Pokemon is for DS, a third game would probably
be on the 3DS...

Guaranteed 3DS, with a small chance of a less refined version for the DS; e.g. less features, worse graphics, etc.

Lewny said:

I hope its on the ads cos that obviously means 3d pokemon hehe and tbh it will most probably be as that will make people buy a 3ds although I wouldn't be surprised if it came out on dsi swell :)

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If you are talking about 3d models then no they will not use those. Gf have said already they will stay with sprites for art reasons.

No they haven't, and you still haven't provided that source we asked for. But sure, take random word of mouth over technical analysis and deduction.

Attribule said:

Guaranteed 3DS, with a small chance of a less refined version for the DS; e.g. less features, worse graphics, etc.

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History begs to differ. Aside from Crystal, every other 3rd game has been on the same system as the first 2. It makes no sense to put the 3rd game onto a new system. Why? Lets look at it logically:

1. The first two versions were on the NDS, and since GF has a habit of making the third game able to interact with the prior two, it stands to reason that they will put it on the same system.

2. Since the 3DS is still new, GF would be hesitant to put the third game onto the system, since it could potentially lower their fanbase. That is why when the Wii first came out, Nintendo still published Gamecube games. It is the same reason why there were still GBA games coming out when the NDS was released.

3. The system servers would be incompatible with 3D sprites. You cannot transfer a 2D object into a 3D environment without specific programs and commands, which can take over a year to complete. The same works in reverse.

4. The output files would be different formats, and thus unable to be transferred to older or new games. This means they would need to make so sort of "Pal Park" program to transfer Pokemon from NDS games to 3DS games.

5. The time it would take to encode everything from the NDS file formats to 3DS file formats would take the better part of a year, because of different commands and dimensions.

With all that in mind, it is much easier to do as they always have and use the codes they already designed on the NDS, and build around that. Also, before anyone mentions the old Coliseum games that used the GB games, you must remember that those were console games, and had build in codes to render the pokemon from set codes and commands.

Beloved said:

History begs to differ. Aside from Crystal, every other 3rd game has been on the same system as the first 2. It makes no sense to put the 3rd game onto a new system. Why? Lets look at it logically

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The 3DS isn't 'new', it will have been out for over a year and a half by this August.

Programming isn't an arcane art shrouded in secrecy and confusion. Game Freak have talented and experienced people working for them - including staff who have been with the company since the development of Red and Green. Lesser companies have taken games designed for one system and moved development over to a successor system because their tools (Software Development Kits, etc) will have been designed to accommodate this.

Not to mention that outside of battle sequences (Which have already been designed and implemented in 3D on other projects), Pokémon's world already works with 3D polygonal graphics building the game maps. Or that Game Freak can work alongside other developers who already have experience displaying 3-dimensonal Pokémon graphics on the 3DS along with implementing many more features of the 3DS (Seriously Pokédex 3D feels more like an engine test polished up and released as a promotion than anything else).

A lack of direct compatibility from DS to 3DS is going to have to be accepted, but it does not sound like a particularly hard task to develop an application that resides in the 3DS's memory, can interface with B/W cartridges and copy Pokémon data across to new game save files.

You aren't looking at anything 'logically' because you're ignoring the current state of Nintendo's* gaming market. They have announced one DS game for publishing this year, and that's an esoteric Pokémon spinoff that nobody knows if it will sell particularly well or even get a Western release. You've also conveniently failed to mention that Nintendo historically stop releasing big-name games for systems by about a year after their successors hit the market - this applied to the Gamecube and Game Boy Advance, undermining the point you were trying to make since we're just about coming up the 3DS's one year aniversary.



Finally, I just want to mention that Sony's Playstation Vita system goes on sale worldwide in just two weeks time. Now Nintendo faces direct competition in the handheld gaming market not just from the cross-over between the smartphone market. They want lucrative properties that they can use in order to advertise their 3DS system to people who might be on the fence about purchasing a 3DS or a Vita.


*All references to 'Nintendo' are referring to their Japanese division only.

Again, the main point of my argument was the fact that GF, not Nintendo, already has the base code set, and will most likely use that. As for Nintendo's gaming market, GF is not Nintendo, thus making your arguments a bit shortsighted. GameFreaks determine when the games come out, and on what system, not Nintendo. All Nintendo does is publish them, they have little to no part in the coding or creation of the games. And please note that I am talking about the Pokemon games.

Given the fact that the code already exists for Gray on the NDS, it is cheaper to reuse that code rather than try to make a new code. There is a reason why it takes so long to write a game, and its not all the storyline, characters, or concept art.

Seeing with Resident Evil Revelations how the graphics in the 3DS easily surpass those in the PS2 i really don't want to see now new Pokemon game with it being completely 3D or nicely enough rendered at least. Also seeing how the chips in a 3DS game cartridge can retain with ease 3gb+ of data whereas a DS game normally goes for about 128mb (games like pokemon, other games go for less), i believe they can either do the double compatibility games or just make a completely new game with a huge leap in mechanics which will also allow at the same time for newer challenges inside the game with this improvements.

I mean i personally think that with everything the 3DS allows in the palm of your hands they would go for making something that wont really reflect the power of the device or probably GameFreak should finally let the reins loose to another company in this? I love them and the games have brought a lot to me but still they are raining over places already wet if they continue making the new games DS and don't adapt to the 3DS.

My 2c :D