The PokéCommunity Forums General Pokémon Discussions Pokémon Anime
How can you improve Ash/Satoshi?

Pokémon Anime Are you a regular watcher of the Pokémon Anime and its Movies or just an old fan? Come here, and take part in all the various ongoing discussions about the Pokémon Anime.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #26    
Old 1 Week Ago (12:06 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Quiji.
Quiji's Avatar
Quiji Quiji is offline
All I Want For Xmas
     
    Join Date: Aug 2009
    Gender: Female
    Posts: 133
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
    I'd give Ash Paul's personality traits, that's all he needs imo.
    So he needs to become an abusive, unfeeling jerk?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iamflowerpower View Post
    oh arceus where should i start.
    well he needs to: catch a legendary, not be an idiot, and maybe i will like him more
    How would Ash catching a Legendary Pokemon improve him? It's not like they're even a big deal these days; Ash has defeated several of them, so their once hyped status as strong battlers is almost moot now.
    Reply With Quote
      #27    
    Old 1 Week Ago (3:42 PM).
    weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is online now
       
      Join Date: Apr 2005
      Posts: 2,584
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Quiji View Post
      So he needs to become an abusive, unfeeling jerk?


      How would Ash catching a Legendary Pokemon improve him? It's not like they're even a big deal these days; Ash has defeated several of them, so their once hyped status as strong battlers is almost moot now.
      1. Yeah, as much as I want Ash to really get improved upon, he really shouldn't adopt Paul's traits, that would just make him even worse. He could adopt Gary's traits of raising Pokémon, however. Yes, Gary's a bit hardheaded and a bit of a braggart, but at least he actually does care for his Pokémon without sacrificing his potential.

      2. Eh, they're still pretty high battlers anyways, and besides, only Pikachu and Charizard have actually BEATEN Legendaries anyway, so it's not like he's made them look bad anyways. Now, if he managed to beat a Legendary with, say, his Caterpie, THEN I'll agree with you on how that's rendered moot.
      Reply With Quote
        #28    
      Old 1 Week Ago (3:01 AM).
      Percy's Avatar
      Percy Percy is online now
      signatures are cool
       
      Join Date: Sep 2014
      Location: Asia
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Quiet
      Posts: 2,524
      he just needs to have more common sense when it comes to battling and i'll be good. he freaking used quick attack on tapu bulu
      __________________

      <check out pokécommunity's social media and like, follow, subscribe blah blah blah>:
      Twitter
      Instagram
      Facebook
      YouTube
      Reply With Quote
        #29    
      Old 1 Week Ago (8:31 AM).
      LordAbizi's Avatar
      LordAbizi LordAbizi is offline
         
        Join Date: Sep 2018
        Location: Israel
        Gender: Male
        Posts: 20
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
        1. Yeah, as much as I want Ash to really get improved upon, he really shouldn't adopt Paul's traits, that would just make him even worse. He could adopt Gary's traits of raising Pokémon, however. Yes, Gary's a bit hardheaded and a bit of a braggart, but at least he actually does care for his Pokémon without sacrificing his potential.

        2. Eh, they're still pretty high battlers anyways, and besides, only Pikachu and Charizard have actually BEATEN Legendaries anyway, so it's not like he's made them look bad anyways. Now, if he managed to beat a Legendary with, say, his Caterpie, THEN I'll agree with you on how that's rendered moot.
        Didn't Pikachu mutual-KO Latio/as in the Sinouh league, while Sceptile managed to take down Darkrai in that same match?



        Ash's incompetence is what frustrates me the most in Pokémon (I guess this is kind of obvious). Now, animes can do with incompetent characters, for instance (these will all be Yu-Gi-Oh analogies since I watched this series the most), in yugioh Zexal, the main protagonist starts incompetent, with the same "screw optimal plays, I am going with my heart" kind of mentality that Ash has. In the beginning he was annoying, especially since by then we were used to almighty main protagonists and yugioh duel monsters, gx, and 5ds. So he starts kind of annoying, but in the second half of the show he gets better, actually becomes competent, still retains his mentality, and it became much more satisfying to watch him. So Ash being clueless and reckless in the first season was fine, as he was still learning. But then, every season he loses to some random trainer, forgets that electric types don't work on ground types, and so on. And I mean, I get this self imposed challenge of "lets start fresh every region", but doesn't it make sense to sometimes call older Pokémon? Like early in BW there was this time Trip made fun of Ash because he only had 5 Pokémon and one less badge than him. Couldn't have Ash just be like "hold my beer" and show him he actually has 40 badges, transfer Snorlax, and have him eat Trip's pathetic Pokémon?

        My point is, that Ash already MADE the journey from nubcake to competent. Making him go over it time and time again is ridiculous. The way I see it, the only way to save the Pokémon anime is: either make Ash suddenly magically competent and get him to be good and win, or just forget about him, finish whatever you having going on, make him die in a plane crash or something, and make a new protagonist. Maybe try a competent protagonist for once. Most of the people who play the games try to play semi-optimally. Obviously, not everyone is meta-master, but a lot of people do try to variate types and type advantages and stuff like that. So watching a protagonist who does that consciously and deliberately would be appealing.


        So yeah, I kind of believe he is hopeless at this point.
        __________________
        Rouche's Theorem: The zeroes of an analytical function is invariant under perturbations of the magnitude of the function itself.
        My Roleplay (recruiting players) :

        Pokémon In The Information Era
        Reply With Quote
          #30    
        Old 1 Week Ago (8:47 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by weedle_mchairybug.
        weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is online now
           
          Join Date: Apr 2005
          Posts: 2,584
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by LordAbizi View Post
          Didn't Pikachu mutual-KO Latio/as in the Sinouh league, while Sceptile managed to take down Darkrai in that same match?



          Ash's incompetence is what frustrates me the most in Pokémon (I guess this is kind of obvious). Now, animes can do with incompetent characters, for instance (these will all be Yu-Gi-Oh analogies since I watched this series the most), in yugioh Zexal, the main protagonist starts incompetent, with the same "screw optimal plays, I am going with my heart" kind of mentality that Ash has. In the beginning he was annoying, especially since by then we were used to almighty main protagonists and yugioh duel monsters, gx, and 5ds. So he starts kind of annoying, but in the second half of the show he gets better, actually becomes competent, still retains his mentality, and it became much more satisfying to watch him. So Ash being clueless and reckless in the first season was fine, as he was still learning. But then, every season he loses to some random trainer, forgets that electric types don't work on ground types, and so on. And I mean, I get this self imposed challenge of "lets start fresh every region", but doesn't it make sense to sometimes call older Pokémon? Like early in BW there was this time Trip made fun of Ash because he only had 5 Pokémon and one less badge than him. Couldn't have Ash just be like "hold my beer" and show him he actually has 40 badges, transfer Snorlax, and have him eat Trip's pathetic Pokémon?

          My point is, that Ash already MADE the journey from nubcake to competent. Making him go over it time and time again is ridiculous. The way I see it, the only way to save the Pokémon anime is: either make Ash suddenly magically competent and get him to be good and win, or just forget about him, finish whatever you having going on, make him die in a plane crash or something, and make a new protagonist. Maybe try a competent protagonist for once. Most of the people who play the games try to play semi-optimally. Obviously, not everyone is meta-master, but a lot of people do try to variate types and type advantages and stuff like that. So watching a protagonist who does that consciously and deliberately would be appealing.


          So yeah, I kind of believe he is hopeless at this point.
          I thought the Pokémon Ash used that acted as his reserves were his Johto Pokémon, not his Hoenn Pokémon? And for the record, Pikachu mutual-KOed Latios, that much is correct, though he also single-handedly took out Regice as well.

          But other than that, I agree fully. I'm not liking how they're really screwing Ash's pooch regarding development, outright wasting it. The closest he's ever gotten to any actual development was in Johto. After that, they barely have him managing to advance in rank from before, many times hits a reset, one or two times tying from before if not decreasing in rank. I mean, for goodness sakes, Goku from Dragon Ball got more development, not to mention actually DOES come across as competent even if somewhat goofy. He's Ash done right.
          Reply With Quote
            #31    
          Old 1 Week Ago (9:17 AM).
          LordAbizi's Avatar
          LordAbizi LordAbizi is offline
             
            Join Date: Sep 2018
            Location: Israel
            Gender: Male
            Posts: 20
            I believe that in Sinou league he used most of his pokemon, regardless of region. Checked Bulbapedia, Ash used Heracross, Gible and Torkoal against Darkrai before Sceptile managed to take it down.
            __________________
            Rouche's Theorem: The zeroes of an analytical function is invariant under perturbations of the magnitude of the function itself.
            My Roleplay (recruiting players) :

            Pokémon In The Information Era
            Reply With Quote
              #32    
            Old 1 Week Ago (1:44 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Entei Fan.
            Entei Fan's Avatar
            Entei Fan Entei Fan is offline
            Canine pokemon fan
               
              Join Date: Apr 2005
              Location: Hamsternidia , somewhere in the universe
              Age: 33
              Gender: Other
              Nature: Gentle
              Posts: 476
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
              I'd give Ash Paul's personality traits, that's all he needs imo.
              So he needs to be a jerk?
              __________________
              My pokemon uncles and aunts (Note that this is a recolor and from Pokemon Crystal)



              Original nick - BH
              Name - Bartek
              Reply With Quote
                #33    
              Old 1 Week Ago (4:03 PM).
              Desert Stream~'s Avatar
              Desert Stream~ Desert Stream~ is offline
              4 million years
                 
                Join Date: Dec 2015
                Gender: Female
                Nature: Hasty
                Posts: 3,242
                Maybe don't reset him at the end of every season? Have him actually catch all the pokemon instead of doing a super lackluster job?

                Personally, I'd just get rid of him entirely...

                When they do stuff like what they did with greninja, saying how it developed such a strong bond for ash it transformed, etc., and then just forget about him next season, it really just kills off any emotions I had towards it.
                __________________
                https://discord.gg/YuAZCS6 Please join I need members ;_;
                Reply With Quote
                  #34    
                Old 1 Week Ago (5:07 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Quiji.
                Quiji's Avatar
                Quiji Quiji is offline
                All I Want For Xmas
                   
                  Join Date: Aug 2009
                  Gender: Female
                  Posts: 133
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Catnip~ View Post
                  Have him actually catch all the pokemon instead of doing a super lackluster job?
                  Why? He has like 40 different species of Pokemon in storage already at Oak's place that he doesn't do anything with except during certain Leagues (the last time being in DP 8 freaking years ago), and even then not all of them get to battle. So how would him catching every single Pokemon be beneficial when all it would lead to is him having 800+ neglected Pokemon that we would only see approximately once every half decade at best?
                  Reply With Quote
                    #35    
                  Old 1 Week Ago (5:27 PM).
                  Desert Stream~'s Avatar
                  Desert Stream~ Desert Stream~ is offline
                  4 million years
                     
                    Join Date: Dec 2015
                    Gender: Female
                    Nature: Hasty
                    Posts: 3,242
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Quiji View Post
                    Why? He has like 40 different species of Pokemon in storage already at Oak's place that he doesn't do anything with except during certain Leagues (the last time being in DP 8 freaking years ago), and even then not all of them get to battle. So how would him catching every single Pokemon be beneficial when all it would lead to is him having 800+ neglected Pokemon that we would only see approximately once every half decade at best?
                    Well catching all the pokemon is kinda one of the major points of the series, but out of all of them he only has a few, like you said. He certainly isn't going to be beating any leagues any time soon, so they might as well give him some actual goal instead of just do the same thing 20 different times in 20 different regions...
                    __________________
                    https://discord.gg/YuAZCS6 Please join I need members ;_;
                    Reply With Quote
                      #36    
                    Old 1 Week Ago (12:47 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Quiji.
                    Quiji's Avatar
                    Quiji Quiji is offline
                    All I Want For Xmas
                       
                      Join Date: Aug 2009
                      Gender: Female
                      Posts: 133
                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Desert Stream~ View Post
                      Well catching all the pokemon is kinda one of the major points of the series
                      The emphasis on catching every Pokemon was mainly a dub concept though, and mainly emphasized in the early years of the show. The whole "gotta catch 'em all" motto didn't exist in the Japanese version (they just had a vague "get Pokemon" tagline instead iirc). It's been kind of clear for over 15 years that Ash and even other notable characters can't actually catch every Pokemon since there are just so many of them, hence why we don't see Ash even attempting to do that these days.
                      Reply With Quote
                        #37    
                      Old 1 Week Ago (1:01 PM).
                      Taste of Tea's Avatar
                      Taste of Tea Taste of Tea is offline
                      Hoenn confirmed
                         
                        Join Date: Sep 2009
                        Location: Johto Region
                        Gender: Female
                        Nature: Careful
                        Posts: 58
                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Desert Stream~ View Post
                        Maybe don't reset him at the end of every season? Have him actually catch all the pokemon instead of doing a super lackluster job?

                        Personally, I'd just get rid of him entirely...

                        When they do stuff like what they did with greninja, saying how it developed such a strong bond for ash it transformed, etc., and then just forget about him next season, it really just kills off any emotions I had towards it.
                        Ash does need to quit releasing his Pokemon. In Greninja's case, it just makes their bond seem like a gimmick that only existed to give Ash a Kalos powerhouse and nothing more.
                        Reply With Quote
                          #38    
                        Old 1 Week Ago (1:17 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by strangerhypno.
                        strangerhypno's Avatar
                        strangerhypno strangerhypno is offline
                           
                          Join Date: Jul 2017
                          Posts: 2,530
                          He doesn't need to catch a legendary, he already has strong pokemon capable of beating them already. In fact the faults of his character are not primarily his battle skills, which he is actually good at, but his flat character which is a fault of the anime being a marketing show for kids.

                          Even shonen MC's like Luffy or Naruto have more depth to them and their simplistic natures are better written in comparison to Ash. And their ideal goals of becoming the greatest aka Pirate King and Hokage are better defined and actually have meaning i.e. freedom or acknowledgment. While being a pokemon master is some vague out of reach goal just there to pretend Ash's journey means something other than advertising the franchise.

                          For these issues to be resolved, the anime doesn't need to make Ash a uber trainer or rated PG 13 +. They just need to actually write Ash as a character looking for ways to achive his goal and they need to give that goal some meaning as well.

                          And tone down filler, unless its entertaining like OG Kanto. Some stronger continuity wouldn't hurt either and would make Ash less like a kid with an early onset of Alzheimer's and feel more like a trainer with experience and that his journey is worth something.
                          Reply With Quote
                            #39    
                          Old 1 Week Ago (1:30 PM).
                          Entei Fan's Avatar
                          Entei Fan Entei Fan is offline
                          Canine pokemon fan
                             
                            Join Date: Apr 2005
                            Location: Hamsternidia , somewhere in the universe
                            Age: 33
                            Gender: Other
                            Nature: Gentle
                            Posts: 476
                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by Taste of Tea View Post
                            Ash does need to quit releasing his Pokemon
                            Agreed, releasing pokemon is stupid, and after seeing pokemon generation 3 animations, i doubt released pokemon go "in the wild", they cease to exist

                            I only do this in 10%, when i got bored by my pokemon i trade them away for newer pokemon
                            __________________
                            My pokemon uncles and aunts (Note that this is a recolor and from Pokemon Crystal)



                            Original nick - BH
                            Name - Bartek
                            Reply With Quote
                              #40    
                            Old 1 Week Ago (6:10 PM).
                            Desert Stream~'s Avatar
                            Desert Stream~ Desert Stream~ is offline
                            4 million years
                               
                              Join Date: Dec 2015
                              Gender: Female
                              Nature: Hasty
                              Posts: 3,242
                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Quiji View Post
                              The emphasis on catching every Pokemon was mainly a dub concept though, and mainly emphasized in the early years of the show. The whole "gotta catch 'em all" motto didn't exist in the Japanese version (they just had a vague "get Pokemon" tagline instead iirc). It's been kind of clear for over 15 years that Ash and even other notable characters can't actually catch every Pokemon since there are just so many of them, hence why we don't see Ash even attempting to do that these days.
                              Oak still asked him to fill up the pokedex though, so it is a goal in the show

                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Taste of Tea View Post
                              Ash does need to quit releasing his Pokemon. In Greninja's case, it just makes their bond seem like a gimmick that only existed to give Ash a Kalos powerhouse and nothing more.
                              EXACTLY!
                              __________________
                              https://discord.gg/YuAZCS6 Please join I need members ;_;
                              Reply With Quote
                                #41    
                              Old 1 Week Ago (7:43 AM).
                              Entei Fan's Avatar
                              Entei Fan Entei Fan is offline
                              Canine pokemon fan
                                 
                                Join Date: Apr 2005
                                Location: Hamsternidia , somewhere in the universe
                                Age: 33
                                Gender: Other
                                Nature: Gentle
                                Posts: 476
                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by Desert Stream~ View Post
                                Oak still asked him to fill up the pokedex though, so it is a goal in the show
                                Yeah, even Red menaged to do that in Pokemon the origin
                                __________________
                                My pokemon uncles and aunts (Note that this is a recolor and from Pokemon Crystal)



                                Original nick - BH
                                Name - Bartek
                                Reply With Quote
                                  #42    
                                Old 1 Week Ago (1:53 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Quiji.
                                Quiji's Avatar
                                Quiji Quiji is offline
                                All I Want For Xmas
                                   
                                  Join Date: Aug 2009
                                  Gender: Female
                                  Posts: 133
                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by Desert Stream~ View Post
                                  Oak still asked him to fill up the pokedex though, so it is a goal in the show
                                  When exactly did Oak ask him to "fill up the Pokedex"? Because it's been 21 years since Ash got his first Pokedex, and the fact that he only caught around 80 Pokemon overall out of 800 kind of proves that filling the Pokedex isn't Ash's goal anymore. :/
                                  Reply With Quote
                                    #43    
                                  Old 1 Week Ago (2:04 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Taste of Tea.
                                  Taste of Tea's Avatar
                                  Taste of Tea Taste of Tea is offline
                                  Hoenn confirmed
                                     
                                    Join Date: Sep 2009
                                    Location: Johto Region
                                    Gender: Female
                                    Nature: Careful
                                    Posts: 58
                                    Ash catching every Pokemon was never his proper long term goal; it was just assumed that he would catch them all back in Kanto because of the franchise's catchphrase, but that misconception only lasted a few dozen episodes and then it became obvious that Ash wasn't really gonna 'catch em all' since he was only catching the bare minimum of Pokemon back then.

                                    Ash's main goal has always been to become a 'Pokemon Master' which is something that hasn't even been explained well yet.
                                    Reply With Quote
                                      #44    
                                    Old 1 Week Ago (7:07 PM).
                                    Desert Stream~'s Avatar
                                    Desert Stream~ Desert Stream~ is offline
                                    4 million years
                                       
                                      Join Date: Dec 2015
                                      Gender: Female
                                      Nature: Hasty
                                      Posts: 3,242
                                      Quote:
                                      Originally Posted by Quiji View Post
                                      When exactly did Oak ask him to "fill up the Pokedex"? Because it's been 21 years since Ash got his first Pokedex, and the fact that he only caught around 80 Pokemon overall out of 800 kind of proves that filling the Pokedex isn't Ash's goal anymore. :/
                                      It clearly isn't his goal anymore, but this thread is about how you would improve him. Actually giving him a goal would do a lot of good.
                                      __________________
                                      https://discord.gg/YuAZCS6 Please join I need members ;_;
                                      Reply With Quote
                                        #45    
                                      Old 1 Week Ago (8:15 AM).
                                      Entei Fan's Avatar
                                      Entei Fan Entei Fan is offline
                                      Canine pokemon fan
                                         
                                        Join Date: Apr 2005
                                        Location: Hamsternidia , somewhere in the universe
                                        Age: 33
                                        Gender: Other
                                        Nature: Gentle
                                        Posts: 476
                                        Quote:
                                        Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                                        1. Yeah, as much as I want Ash to really get improved upon, he really shouldn't adopt Paul's traits, that would just make him even worse. He could adopt Gary's traits of raising Pokémon, however. Yes, Gary's a bit hardheaded and a bit of a braggart, but at least he actually does care for his Pokémon without sacrificing his potential.
                                        I doubt that, Gary/Shigeru is bassicly Green/Blue and we ALL know how he acts

                                        Sure he helps pokemon in generation 4 but he's bassicly android saga Vegeta, a selfish prick

                                        Even Silver learned that hurting pokemon is wrong despite being Sasaki's son
                                        __________________
                                        My pokemon uncles and aunts (Note that this is a recolor and from Pokemon Crystal)



                                        Original nick - BH
                                        Name - Bartek
                                        Reply With Quote
                                          #46    
                                        Old 1 Week Ago (8:30 AM).
                                        RickGrimes's Avatar
                                        RickGrimes RickGrimes is offline
                                           
                                          Join Date: May 2016
                                          Location: In hiding
                                          Gender: Male
                                          Nature: Calm
                                          Posts: 64
                                          I'd make it so he doesn't make rookie-level mistakes. He went from being a powerful trainer in Sinnoh to making noobish mistakes in Best Wishes.

                                          His brilliant strategy for beating Elesa was bringing Palpatoid. Just Palpitoad. Nobody else. That's it. He didn't have a backup plan in case, y'know, that plan failed. There's no excuse.
                                          Reply With Quote
                                            #47    
                                          Old 1 Week Ago (1:31 PM).
                                          Quiji's Avatar
                                          Quiji Quiji is offline
                                          All I Want For Xmas
                                             
                                            Join Date: Aug 2009
                                            Gender: Female
                                            Posts: 133
                                            Quote:
                                            Originally Posted by Taste of Tea View Post
                                            Ash's main goal has always been to become a 'Pokemon Master' which is something that hasn't even been explained well yet.
                                            This needs clarifying in the show, because he's thrown the term around too often while never really explaining the qualifications.
                                            Reply With Quote
                                              #48    
                                            Old 5 Days Ago (1:39 AM).
                                            tigertron's Avatar
                                            tigertron tigertron is offline
                                            Pokémon Master
                                               
                                              Join Date: Dec 2015
                                              Location: Weston-super-Mare
                                              Gender: Male
                                              Nature: Quiet
                                              Posts: 7
                                              I think the fact that Ash is forever a child is irritating because you never see Ash really develop anymore. You see him grow and mature until around the Advanced series, then he just kind of stays the same.

                                              It also doesn't help that Pikachu's level seemingly resets with every generation and Ash has trouble battling rookie trainers. There needs to be continuity. Would the Ash from the Johto league/Orange league really lose so easily to someone like Paul when he just started out?
                                              Reply With Quote
                                                #49    
                                              Old 5 Days Ago (4:21 AM).
                                              X4vv's Avatar
                                              X4vv X4vv is offline
                                                 
                                                Join Date: Sep 2017
                                                Posts: 6
                                                Dunno, maybe let him mature?
                                                Reply With Quote
                                                  #50    
                                                Old 4 Days Ago (10:08 AM).
                                                Entei Fan's Avatar
                                                Entei Fan Entei Fan is offline
                                                Canine pokemon fan
                                                   
                                                  Join Date: Apr 2005
                                                  Location: Hamsternidia , somewhere in the universe
                                                  Age: 33
                                                  Gender: Other
                                                  Nature: Gentle
                                                  Posts: 476
                                                  Quote:
                                                  Originally Posted by X4vv View Post
                                                  Dunno, maybe let him mature?
                                                  I think he already is, as XY alt Ash acts like original anime Ash
                                                  __________________
                                                  My pokemon uncles and aunts (Note that this is a recolor and from Pokemon Crystal)



                                                  Original nick - BH
                                                  Name - Bartek
                                                  Reply With Quote
                                                  Reply

                                                  Quick Reply

                                                  Join the conversation!

                                                  Create an account to post a reply in this thread, participate in other discussions, and more!

                                                  Create a PokéCommunity Account
                                                  Thread Tools

                                                  Posting Rules
                                                  You may not post new threads
                                                  You may not post replies
                                                  You may not post attachments
                                                  You may not edit your posts

                                                  BB code is On
                                                  Smilies are On
                                                  [IMG] code is On
                                                  HTML code is Off

                                                  Forum Jump


                                                  All times are GMT -8. The time now is 4:36 AM.