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Debate The U.S Gun Control Thread

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  #1    
Old 1 Week Ago (5:40 AM).
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Oh boy, this is going to be fun.

It isn't a secret that shootings have, quite frankly, gone out of control in the US. Some argue it's the guns. The other side argue it's people that kill people, not guns. And this has been a rather circular argument for years upon years.

But the big question everyone's been trying to get to the bottom of is this: what can we really do about this? Is shooting after shooting something we're just going to have to live with until people more or less force politicians to do something?

If you're on the side of gun control, what kind of gun control measures would help significantly decrease the number of deaths that we see every year? If you're more pro-gun, what solutions do you have as far as holding the individual more accountable for the guns that they purchase (if that makes any sense)?

Debate away, people.
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  #2    
Old 1 Week Ago (6:19 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by gimmepie.
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Honestly, I'm pretty tired of this debate so I'll just put in a few thoughts.

Firstly, you can implement stronger gun control without violating or repealing the second amendment. Let's just get that out the way now.

As for some quick suggestions

1. Stricter background checks and registration/evaluation process.
2. Limit the kind of gun people can purchase and also the amount of ammunition.
3. Uniform gun laws so people can't just pull a Chicago and buy an easy gun from another state and cart it in.
4. Require a legitimate reason (no self-defence is not a legitimate reason) for the ownership of guns.
5. Government buyback scheme.
6. Change donation laws so the NRA lose their stranglehold on the Republican party.
7. Stop letting gun shows circumvent gun control measures.
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Old 1 Week Ago (8:11 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
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    When you have a society that's this divided.. Violence like this is bound to happen. The fact America is so divided, plays a huge role no matter which angle you look at it.. Not gonna go into details cause America has a list of problems. The direction America is headed, is complete annihilation upon it's own people if we don't start making some changes. Guns aren't the problem, as the incline of mass murders have been quite recent.. It's all the other problems combating one another causing all this chaos to form and psyduck up everything in it's path.

    Imagine all the things that divides us.. Now box all those in.. Now observe how people interact with eachother when their belief system is limited or it's being overdriven.. Eventually they'll resort to violence to combat the problem at hand cause they can't agree to disagree and unite to fix the problems caused by ignorance. Humans are the problem.
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    Old 1 Week Ago (8:20 AM).
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      I disagree with the statement that the “shootings have gone out of control.” Gun deaths have been trending downward for years.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
      Honestly, I'm pretty tired of this debate so I'll just put in a few thoughts.

      Firstly, you can implement stronger gun control without violating or repealing the second amendment. Let's just get that out the way now.
      . I disagree. Shall not be infringed.

      Quote:
      As for some quick suggestions

      1. Stricter background checks and registration/evaluation process.
      based on what data? Some of these people passed the background check. What evaluation criteria? Registration? So some government stooge can raid my home at 2am when my firearm gets added to the ban list? And stupidly enough, felons can’t be made to register their firearms as they have a right to not incriminate themselves. Think that one through. A non felon would be required to register a gun but not convicted felons as that would be a violation of their 5th amendment rights.

      Quote:
      2. Limit the kind of gun people can purchase and also the amount of ammunition.
      No. A gun is a gun. Those lists always grow and never shrink. Ammo limits? Why? People who practice with their gun go through a lot of ammo.

      Quote:
      3. Uniform gun laws so people can't just pull a Chicago and buy an easy gun from another state and cart it in.
      I agree with uniform gun laws but not the way you think. Gun owners shouldn’t be punished because they crossed an invisible line and suddenly broke a stupid law. Plus, for the most part, what you think is happening in Chicago is illegal already. Buying a handgun in a different state to sell in Chicago is called a straw purchase and gun smuggling.

      Quote:
      4. Require a legitimate reason (no self-defence is not a legitimate reason) for the ownership of guns.
      Major what?? here. How is self defense not legitimate?
      Quote:
      5. Government buyback scheme.
      . Those don’t work. They don’t get guns alway from felons just the suckers and the foolish. Plus no way can the govt afford to pay the actual value of the guns.
      Quote:
      6. Change donation laws so the NRA lose their stranglehold on the Republican party.
      and that would be a violation of the 1st amendment. Contrary to certain anti gun groups, the NRA doesn’t have a stranglehold on the Republicans. Why is the money donated to the NRA for gun rights bad but the money (often more) donated to the anti gun groups good?
      Quote:
      7. Stop letting gun shows circumvent gun control measures.
      Media myth. There is not a gun show loophole. The vendors at gun shows must run background checks to sell guns to people. For heavens sake, there are police and ATF at these events! They’d love to make an arrest for illegal sales!

      On mobile right now. Pardon spelling or format.
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        #5    
      Old 1 Week Ago (1:16 PM).
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        A good point was brought up in this thread...we mainly hear about guns being used, but I think we can also fit the ideas of other weapons like knives being used to assault people; guns are just easier and quicker to use to accomplish the same thing. We could also fit deaths as a result of DWIs into this as well, as you should not have got drunk in the first place. May as well throw in any deaths as a result of being high or wanting to get high from drugs.

        What needs to be done is having higher sentences as punishments for crimes. It used to be in the past that if you killed someone that the death penalty was likely what happened to you, and I thought that was a suitable system (for those arguing that innocent people could be killed off instead, that's why you stay in prison for a while before the sentence is carried out, just in case there is a mistake). I think it's too often now that people just get slaps on the wrists. It's also too often now that I think people try to claim having a mental illness as the reason for why they should not be punished for the crime. If you don't want to be arrested, then don't do anything that could get you in trouble.

        I think the bigger issue is people having these thoughts of doing bad things to others in the first place, and no amount of politics will ever resolve this issue, as these kinds of thoughts have been around since the creation of the world. Since the times of Adam and Eve, but if you follow other ideals, that may not apply to you. Racism, people being wanted by others for actions done in the past, or people that decide to follow radical Islam or other terrorist ideals will always be a thing. So while these ideals exist, I think this debate will never be fully resolved. The only thing I could suggest for people that know someone that might be thinking of any of the mentioned thoughts is to try to stop that person from carrying it out, first through trying to calm them down. A larger police presence is really the only other thing that comes to mind regarding solutions to the problem, but that won't be enough.
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        Old 1 Week Ago (2:01 PM).
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        I don't think that self-defense is an illegitimate reason to purchase a gun. Everyone has the right to not have unjustified harm be inflicted upon them.

        The problem is more that some people take self-defense too far or that they "defend" themselves when there's no significant threat. A lot of the time, the mere presence of a gun is enough to get the other person to stop what they're doing. In the cases where that doesn't work, a warning shot or giving them a non-lethal wound should be enough. In the fewer cases still where that doesn't work, then you have to make the decision of if you're going to kill them or not. But some people just skip the first two and go straight to the last one. Sometimes it's hard to know which one to go with though, sometimes you don't get the time to go through that--a second could possibly mean the difference between you being dead and you not being dead. It also might not easy to determine who actually understands how to properly defend themselves with a gun too. But I'd like to think that it's possible to do these things.

        ---

        It's also an immensely valid point that if you make things so that people don't feel the need to commit murder in the first place, you'll see a huge reduction in violent crime regardless of anything else.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
        Gun deaths have been trending downward for years.
        Are you sure about that? I'm looking at CDC and FBI numbers, and I'm not seeing a downward trend here (forgive my poor Excel skills):
        Spoiler:





        Looks either like a slight upward trend, or holding steady, not sure which.

        https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

        https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls

        https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
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          #7    
        Old 1 Week Ago (4:35 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
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          If I remember correctly, ever since Trump was elected these "mass murders" sky rocketed.
          This is telling me.... Either it's crazy people lashing out against the political system to try to make a statement (throw in mail bombers as well) or it's a leftist set up to push a gun ban, basically like staged events. Hard to tell which cause they both seem feasible. I find it hard to believe it's "gun laws" cause this wasn't really an big issue until recently. Now it's like a monthly thing, which I find sketchy.. Idk, the math just isn't adding up.
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          Old 1 Week Ago (6:03 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by TailsMK4 View Post

            What needs to be done is having higher sentences as punishments for crimes. It used to be in the past that if you killed someone that the death penalty was likely what happened to you, and I thought that was a suitable system (for those arguing that innocent people could be killed off instead, that's why you stay in prison for a while before the sentence is carried out, just in case there is a mistake). I think it's too often now that people just get slaps on the wrists. It's also too often now that I think people try to claim having a mental illness as the reason for why they should not be punished for the crime. If you don't want to be arrested, then don't do anything that could get you in trouble.
            I'd support harsher sentencing for people who guns in a crime. You'd have to be careful because antigun liberals often make simply having the gun a crime. See New Jersey.

            Quote:
            I think the bigger issue is people having these thoughts of doing bad things to others in the first place, and no amount of politics will ever resolve this issue, as these kinds of thoughts have been around since the creation of the world. Since the times of Adam and Eve, but if you follow other ideals, that may not apply to you. Racism, people being wanted by others for actions done in the past, or people that decide to follow radical Islam or other terrorist ideals will always be a thing. So while these ideals exist, I think this debate will never be fully resolved. The only thing I could suggest for people that know someone that might be thinking of any of the mentioned thoughts is to try to stop that person from carrying it out, first through trying to calm them down. A larger police presence is really the only other thing that comes to mind regarding solutions to the problem, but that won't be enough.
            Not enough people want to be cops. I'd rather teach people to defend themselves.

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Nah View Post

            The problem is more that some people take self-defense too far or that they "defend" themselves when there's no significant threat. A lot of the time, the mere presence of a gun is enough to get the other person to stop what they're doing. In the cases where that doesn't work, a warning shot or giving them a non-lethal wound should be enough. In the fewer cases still where that doesn't work, then you have to make the decision of if you're going to kill them or not. But some people just skip the first two and go straight to the last one. Sometimes it's hard to know which one to go with though, sometimes you don't get the time to go through that--a second could possibly mean the difference between you being dead and you not being dead. It also might not easy to determine who actually understands how to properly defend themselves with a gun too. But I'd like to think that it's possible to do these things.
            The problem with shooting to wound is that it is incredibly hard to shoot to wound someone. Hitting the leg or arm is not easy. There are also arteries to consider and some wounds won't stop the threat. A lot of self defense gun use takes place pretty darn close. You don't have time to make a precise aim.
            In addition, defensive gun use isn't about killing in self defense. It's about stopping the threat. If a gun owner shoots an attacker who then collapses on the ground, it is illegal for the gun owner to then shoot that attacker in the head to kill him.

            Warning shots have the problem of where does that round end up? You can also blame antigun groups for the fact that many DGU court cases hinge on "well if you had time to fire a warning shot or aim to wound, you must not have been in danger."

            Quote:
            It's also an immensely valid point that if you make things so that people don't feel the need to commit murder in the first place, you'll see a huge reduction in violent crime regardless of anything else.
            That would help with some cases.


            Quote:
            Are you sure about that? I'm looking at CDC and FBI numbers, and I'm not seeing a downward trend here (forgive my poor Excel skills):
            Spoiler:





            Looks either like a slight upward trend, or holding steady, not sure which.

            https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

            https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls

            https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
            I'm sure.
            http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/
            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4d14b3ffda46
            https://www.ammoland.com/2018/09/violent-crime-down-in-2017/#ixzz5SZ7gJWH3

            It's hard to see at some points as its a small percentage and small percentages can sometime be erased in a bad year.

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
            If I remember correctly, ever since Trump was elected these "mass murders" sky rocketed.
            They haven't "skyrocketed." There were 2 last year and four this year. The US is a large country and these events generate massive ad revenue for the news agencies. They get covered a lot and there is probably a self feeding effect. Disaffected youth wants his name to be known so he shoots up his school. The media covers it relentlessly so the next disaffected youth has even more reason to do the same.

            Quote:
            This is telling me.... Either it's crazy people lashing out against the political system to try to make a statement (throw in mail bombers as well) or it's a leftist set up to push a gun ban, basically like staged events. Hard to tell which cause they both seem feasible. I find it hard to believe it's "gun laws" cause this wasn't really an big issue until recently. Now it's like a monthly thing, which I find sketchy.. Idk, the math just isn't adding up.
            Staged events? You sound like a 9-11 truther. Lose the conspiracy theory crap. People get bad brain meats and lash out. With the 24 hour news cycle, you get to hear about it constantly.

            It's confirmation bias combined with a 24 news cycle. Unconnected muk that appears to be connected.
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              #9    
            Old 1 Week Ago (7:07 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
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              You're ignorant to what I just said... You're ignorant cause you failed to comprehend it's a possibility I didn't say it's what's happening. You do what everyone else does.. You find something that catches your attention without grasping the content and stating your opinion on why it's "wrong". Very similar to how the media works.. Also the fact "mass shootings" are "revenue" for news anchors shows you how twisted they are.. They seem to be benefiting from it, meaning they have no problem with it.. Hmm...

              No muk a biased news source being shoved down our throats 24/7 appears to be connected. It's all part of the agenda to divide America. Yet I'm the conspiracy theorist.. Okay. Thanks for verifying my "conspiracy theories" as facts while calling me a conspiracy theorist. I'm perplexed.
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              Old 1 Week Ago (9:03 PM).
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                They haven't "skyrocketed." There were 2 last year and four this year.
                There's literally one every few days. There have been three this month where people have died, and more where people were just injured. I don't know what kind of fantasy you're living in.
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                  #11    
                Old 1 Week Ago (9:43 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
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                  Quote:
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                  There's literally one every few days. There have been three this month where people have died, and more where people were just injured. I don't know what kind of fantasy you're living in.
                  My biggest concern is that it's actually becoming a thing.. The psyducking mail bomber dude in Texas.. Mass shooters.. It's happening more and more.. As I stated this sky rocketed after Trumps election..... Either this muk simply is not the case and it's all for manipulation cause through fear do you control or muk is seriously this twisted in America and they're simply protesting in a very violent and immoral manner to mark their territory...
                  I believe it's a mixture of both... The events are real, but media stages it differently.. We're not getting the FULL STORY AT ALL.
                  Either way what's going on is quite frightening... Banning guns will only worsen the problem and that's a guarantee, and the left seems hell bent on doing so. America will not stand for a gun ban. It will never happen, without violence at least.. You live by the gun, you die by the gun. Meaning kill or be killed...
                  It would be full out revolutionary war all over again in America.
                  Oh how history tends to repeat itself.. It's just a matter of time...
                  Probably wont happen anytime soon I'd assume at least...
                  Tho we got 2 years left of Trump.. Imagine a second election...
                  Hillary would have been no different...
                  Less of two evils.
                  AMERICA'S BEEN PSYDUCKED!!!
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                  Old 1 Week Ago (9:46 PM).
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                    My biggest concern is that it's actually becoming a thing.. The ****ing mail bomber dude in Texas.. Mass shooters.. It's happening more and more.. As I stated this sky rocketed after Trumps election..... Either this **** simply is not the case and it's all for manipulation cause through fear do you control or **** is seriously this twisted in America and they're simply protesting in a very violent and immoral manner to mark their territory...
                    I believe it's a mixture of both... The events are real, but media stages it differently.. We're not getting the FULL STORY AT ALL.
                    Either way what's going on is quite frightening... Banning guns will only worsen the problem and that's a guarantee, and the left seems hell bent on doing so. America will not stand for a gun ban. It will never happen, without violence at least.. You live by the gun, you die by the gun. Meaning kill or be killed...
                    It would be full out revolutionary war all over again in America.
                    Oh how history tends to repeat itself.. It's just a matter of time...
                    I honestly don't think banning guns would do more harm then good, but yeah it's clear something has to be done, and the right isn't budging.
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                    Old 1 Week Ago (10:00 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Catnip~ View Post
                      I honestly don't think banning guns would do more harm then good, but yeah it's clear something has to be done, and the right isn't budging.
                      It would do so much more harm that good.. Like, if somehow the ignorance these liberals seek were to actually be true about Trump... He could easily disarm us and do some Hitler muk.. Wouldn't be surprised if that's in their agenda... We didn't exactly get a good choice for our "president".. Less of two evils I guess..

                      As someone who doesn't choose sides I understand both sides very clearly. So I fully understand the ignorance of both parties.... It's why I chose to not choose a side cause they're both controlled by psychopaths..
                      It sucks when you hit the realization that you're forced to live through the ignorance of other people... See the world for what it is, beyond the black and the white and you either lose yourself or your mind can withstand that type of mental capacity..

                      Then again I've done many psychedelics and am completely fine.. Run muk at my work, make money with my studio, and work on music myself.. Was nicknamed "Wordsmith".. I'm completely sane and in tune with myself and others.. Most on here assume I'm "delusional" when I'm perfectly fine.. I'm literally one of the most down to earth and caring dudes one will ever meet.. I just smoke a lot of weed and chill.. Sometimes come on here to psyduck with people cause they can't accept the truth. It's quite amusing.
                      I don't own a gun, at least not anymore.. But guns are fun to shoot..
                      But I'd never aim it at a person.. I'm not psyducking stupid ya know.. I know gun safety and all.. So psyduck it, why not go shoot some targets if ones bored? Is there a problem with that?
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                      Old 1 Week Ago (10:17 PM).
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                        Quote:
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                        It would do so much more harm that good.. Like, if somehow the ignorance these liberals seek were to actually be true about Trump... He could easily disarm us and do some Hitler ****.. Wouldn't be surprised if that's in their agenda... We didn't exactly get a good choice for our "president".. Less of two evils I guess..

                        As someone who doesn't choose sides I understand both sides very clearly. So I fully understand the ignorance of both parties.... It's why I chose to not choose a side cause they're both controlled by psychopaths..
                        It sucks when you hit the realization that you're forced to live through the ignorance of other people... See the world for what it is, beyond the black and the white and you either lose yourself or your mind can withstand that type of mental capacity..

                        Then again I've done many psychedelics and am completely fine.. Run **** at my work, make money with my studio, and work on music myself.. Was nicknamed "Wordsmith".. I'm completely sane and in tune with myself and others.. Most on here assume I'm "delusional" when I'm perfectly fine.. I'm literally one of the most down to earth and caring dudes one will ever meet.. I just smoke a lot of weed and chill.. Sometimes come on here to **** with people cause they can't accept the truth. It's quite amusing.
                        I don't own a gun, at least not anymore.. But guns are fun to shoot..
                        But I'd never aim it at a person.. I'm not ****ing stupid ya know.. I know gun safety and all.. So **** it, why not go shoot some targets if ones bored? Is there a problem with that?
                        Fear of the government is a fine reason, especially with the government right now doing everything it can to remove people's rights, but ironically, they're the ones who want people to have guns.
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                        Old 1 Week Ago (10:29 PM).
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Catnip~ View Post
                          Fear of the government is a fine reason, especially with the government right now doing everything it can to remove people's rights, but ironically, they're the ones who want people to have guns.
                          I sense you're "self aware" so I don't have to lecture you...

                          I feel like it's all just a show to see how long we can last... They're amused by it and they're making profit off it at the same time... People are so oblivious to the fact it's an insult to us cause humans are naive enough to fall for their mind spells. They want us to kill eachother..
                          Literally tho... These people in power are psychopaths.. Self entitled at a dangerously high level.. I'm convinced they have no feelings or emotions at all.. No soul...
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                          Old 1 Week Ago (11:27 PM).
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                            Basically, the dilemma with America and their gun 'rights' is this: They feel it necessary to prevent their country to have the so-called monopoly on violence. Where only the authorized personnel may carry firearms. To ordinary civilians, firearms are a privilege for a certain functions such as hunting. As you might have seen me repeat time after time, 2nd Amendment and the 'rights' they bestow have no place in 21st Century. Especially after all of the massacres I've constantly seen on the news. Sure, we Europeans have our own share of problems as well as you can imagine. But at least we WON'T have to constantly fear for our lives like this. And even if a Police officer has to fire a gun, it's nonethless regarded as a good thing if he or she doesn't HAVE to fire a single shot.
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                            Old 1 Week Ago (4:55 AM).
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
                            I'd support harsher sentencing for people who guns in a crime. You'd have to be careful because antigun liberals often make simply having the gun a crime. See New Jersey.
                            Do you mean the law the governor signed yesterday outlawing the ownership of firearms made from untraceable parts, or do you mean something else? Am admittedly not familiar with my state's gun laws, all I really know is that this is one of the stricter states in the country regarding gun laws and that Murphy is a very pro-gun control guy.

                            I see. I didn't think to look at the Bureau of Justice Statistics page too, and somehow missed that the FBI UCR actually goes back to 1995. I don't really care for articles as sources for statistics, but the Pew link seems alright and I found the BJS page it primarily draws from, and I have little reason to doubt the BJS, so....

                            Though the thing is, the Pew and BJS pages only go up to 2011, so what does that mean for more recent times? Y'know, the FBI data I posted in my previous post.
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                              #18    
                            Old 1 Week Ago (6:18 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
                              Basically, the dilemma with America and their gun 'rights' is this: They feel it necessary to prevent their country to have the so-called monopoly on violence. Where only the authorized personnel may carry firearms. To ordinary civilians, firearms are a privilege for a certain functions such as hunting. As you might have seen me repeat time after time, 2nd Amendment and the 'rights' they bestow have no place in 21st Century. Especially after all of the massacres I've constantly seen on the news. Sure, we Europeans have our own share of problems as well as you can imagine. But at least we WON'T have to constantly fear for our lives like this. And even if a Police officer has to fire a gun, it's nonethless regarded as a good thing if he or she doesn't HAVE to fire a single shot.
                              Again... You don't understand America's culture...
                              There's millions of gun owners in America that don't intend to use their firearm on a person.. Like, do you realize a majority of the gun owners are actually LAW ABIDING CITIZENS?? They've never had the police called for the guns, they're safe with their guns, hell lots have children and keep it out of their reach.. ya know... Gun ownership holds a lot of responsibility.. Ones maturity should determine if they should own a gun or not.. They're not exactly toys.
                              And you brought up an excellent point.. Tho I don't believe the citizens nor the police should be disarmed... But when it comes to police they really need to take their training programs more seriously.. This doesn't exactly help the issue when they keep shooting minorities... Yet people refuse to unite and fix this, they automatically resort to "black lives matter" protest than the police doing their psyducking jobs.

                              Guns are only dangerous in the hands of the wrong people.. Other than that.. They're fine.
                              It's just people that lost their grip on reality and criminals that kill one another.. It's simple really.
                              It does nothing but takes the rights away from law abiding citizens.
                              But what can I say... The left is hell bent on stripping our rights... Well.. Only rights they disagree with..
                              I mean... This is coming from the same party that protested in the streets cause Hillary didn't win and was too devastated to go to work or class.. Shows you how closed minded liberals are...
                              Then point the finger at the right and Trump for being the problem... Cause they need an enemy to make revenue..
                              And vise versa..
                              As I said many times... People need to just wake up from this coma they've been in.

                              Somethings telling me if Hillary was elected these mass murders wouldn't be out of control.. This is the ignorance I fear from the people. It's basically just the left fabricating bullmuk to force their beliefs, causing this to happen.... But do they ever wanna admit their wrong? NOPE. Why? Cause they're manipulating people and making money doing so.
                              And the right is to blame as well as they fight fire with fire.

                              One simply doesn't strip rights (especially of the constitution) and have the audacity to say it's the land of the free... What psyducking freedom then? See America's problem now? Not that we're free anyways... I can't smoke weed without risk of going to jail...
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                              Old 1 Week Ago (7:31 AM).
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                                ShinyUmbreon: True. But why then EU doesn't have gun 'rights' either? Like it or not, even if a gun owner might not intend to use them at all, take one bad day and you have a killing machine on your hands. That's why keeping firearms out of the hands of the common folk is a VERY good thing.
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                                  #20    
                                Old 1 Week Ago (7:44 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
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                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
                                  ShinyUmbreon: True. But why then EU doesn't have gun 'rights' either? Like it or not, even if a gun owner might not intend to use them at all, take one bad day and you have a killing machine on your hands. That's why keeping firearms out of the hands of the common folk is a VERY good thing.
                                  Cause Europe is not America.. Different culture, beliefs, history, etc. You're comparing apples to oranges man.

                                  It's not so much a mature citizen having a bad day and committing mass murder.. It doesn't work that way. I don't get how you think like that cause for one to do such a thing as mass murder they have to be seriously mentally ill and delusional or just a hateful and evil human being. Not to mention if would be an daily thing, which it's clearly not.
                                  These types of people are easily triggered and more likely to resort to violence or immoral acts and I agree, they shouldn't have access to any weapon of any sort.. Not even a knife.. It's pretty sad America's starting to have the same issues as the Middle East.. What's next.. People literally strapping C4 and blowing up a building?

                                  Law abiding citizens with kids and all love their family. They want nothing but the best for their family.. Yes, life can be stressful and is definitely harder than easier but the most the average person does when angered is yell really loud (it's scientifically proven that it's a good outlet to release if you just scream at the top of your lungs) or punch a wall or some muk. No one in their right mind would shoot someone cause they were angry.. Unless they were what I stated above, or simply a criminal.

                                  Muks psyducked up man, I understand. Plus, I live here in America so I have a clearer view of what's going on. Sadly, there's nothing we can do with a society this divided. And to say the division of a society isn't a huge part of the problem, makes one completely oblivious to reality.

                                  And it doesn't help when the far right is so stubborn on the belief that everyone and their mother, cousins, and kids should have guns. Cause they're the beer guzzling, rebel flying in their big truck, fishing with guns, Trump hat wearing asshats, "psyduck you if you don't support my country", basement full of gun rednecks.... Hell, lets just give them to infants when they pop out their mother.. That's the mentality they have and it's sickening...

                                  Then you got the far left that hates guns.. They're whats killing people, they provoke protests and riots through closed minded views, non accepting and sensitive snowflakes, want free muk for everyone when America's in major debt, thinking society owes them liberals that want to take the guns and other rights away.. But abortion is completely fine.. But when you question their belief they prove their ignorance.

                                  Both left and right make me wanna puke.
                                  Until we can solve these problems... America will only get worse.
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                                    #21    
                                  Old 1 Week Ago (12:43 PM).
                                  LDSman LDSman is online now
                                     
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                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Nah View Post
                                    Do you mean the law the governor signed yesterday outlawing the ownership of firearms made from untraceable parts, or do you mean something else? Am admittedly not familiar with my state's gun laws, all I really know is that this is one of the stricter states in the country regarding gun laws and that Murphy is a very pro-gun control guy.
                                    I meant in general. Person legally carrying with a permit in a state bordering NJ crosses the state line and is now considered a criminal as NJ refuses to recognize any other state's permits. But that new gun law is pretty stupid. There is only one part of a gun that gets a serial number. The rest of the parts are easily replaceable for repairs and what not. Its also targeting a nonexistent problem. How many crimes have been committed by people that buy gun parts and assemble their own guns? Same question with 3D printed guns. The vast majority of criminals aren't going to spend thousands to get get the vary precise printers and printer stuff needed to make a safe to use 3D printed gun. It is also still illegal for felons to make and possess guns. And how does NJ plan to find and punish people who make guns in their garage or basement anyway?


                                    Quote:
                                    I see. I didn't think to look at the Bureau of Justice Statistics page too, and somehow missed that the FBI UCR actually goes back to 1995. I don't really care for articles as sources for statistics, but the Pew link seems alright and I found the BJS page it primarily draws from, and I have little reason to doubt the BJS, so....

                                    Though the thing is, the Pew and BJS pages only go up to 2011, so what does that mean for more recent times? Y'know, the FBI data I posted in my previous post.
                                    No clue honestly. Good trend data goes back decades. Its too easy to take small chunks and claim "Its trending upward!!!"

                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
                                    ShinyUmbreon: True. But why then EU doesn't have gun 'rights' either? Like it or not, even if a gun owner might not intend to use them at all, take one bad day and you have a killing machine on your hands. That's why keeping firearms out of the hands of the common folk is a VERY good thing.
                                    Do you think that if you had a bad day and access to a gun, you'd start killing people? If so, that's on you. I own a gun. I've had bad guys. I still haven't felt the urge to threaten or kill people with it. Same thing for my car, my swords, my gasoline and matches. if people are so dangerous, why would you want to disarm the law-abiding? One bad day and the neighbor may be trying to beat me to death. Millions of gun owners never seem to go on these killing sprees when they have a bad day.
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                                      #22    
                                    Old 1 Week Ago (2:58 PM).
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                                      Now maybe I'm wrong, but when people refer to a "bad day" they don't mean just any bad day
                                      A lot of people suffering from mental illness or depression try to hide it, and can appear just fine on the outside while on the inside they're in a really bad place. When this happens, even small things can add up, so it's not just any bad day, it's a bad day that ends up leading to a mental breakdown
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                                        #23    
                                      Old 1 Week Ago (9:51 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Nah.
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                                        Quote:
                                        Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
                                        Basically, the dilemma with America and their gun 'rights' is this: They feel it necessary to prevent their country to have the so-called monopoly on violence. Where only the authorized personnel may carry firearms. To ordinary civilians, firearms are a privilege for a certain functions such as hunting. As you might have seen me repeat time after time, 2nd Amendment and the 'rights' they bestow have no place in 21st Century. Especially after all of the massacres I've constantly seen on the news. Sure, we Europeans have our own share of problems as well as you can imagine. But at least we WON'T have to constantly fear for our lives like this. And even if a Police officer has to fire a gun, it's nonethless regarded as a good thing if he or she doesn't HAVE to fire a single shot.
                                        Get your smugness out of here. Guns are rights in the USA, no matter how much you don't think they are. The only solution you have is to repeal the 2nd amendment. Also, don't forget that the news is a private industry that wants news that keeps their viewers coming back. Of course they are going to talk about all the shooting, it is what drives up their ratings. :/

                                        Quote:
                                        Originally Posted by Catnip~ View Post
                                        Now maybe I'm wrong, but when people refer to a "bad day" they don't mean just any bad day
                                        A lot of people suffering from mental illness or depression try to hide it, and can appear just fine on the outside while on the inside they're in a really bad place. When this happens, even small things can add up, so it's not just any bad day, it's a bad day that ends up leading to a mental breakdown
                                        I remember listening this podcast (or was it NPR?) in how in rural communities, they don't have mental healthcare centers. When they talk about this issue with other people within their community, they are told to tough it out. People in rural communities learn to solve their own issues, but there are just some issues that are greater than they can handle by themselves. I remember listening on it, how the only person in this rural community is one who went through depression himself and he talks to them over the phone to help them talk about their feelings on the matter.

                                        https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(18)30005-9/fulltext

                                        ^ This article touches on the fact that we need to help out communities in the US, that lack mental healthcare facilities and professionals.
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                                          #24    
                                        Old 1 Week Ago (2:50 AM).
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                                          Here's what I think about the gun issue in the US, from my outsider non-american perspective:

                                          It seems that like a lot of issues in america, a tiny minority of psychos causes wide-spread hysteria which threatens the way of life of the vast majority of people, who are sane and law-abiding.

                                          From what I know, and correct me if i'm wrong, acquiring a gun legally in the US is not as easy as just going out and buying it. Not just anyone can do it legally. It seems like the problem lies mostly with people who don't have a criminal/mental history, get a gun and then commit a crime with it that's fueled by an undiagnosed, unnoticed mental disorder. Of course there is also the criminals who acquire guns illegally.

                                          The thing is... It seems like anti-gunners just want to take away guns from the general population and/or make it unnecesarilly harder for people to get them, rather than trying to attack the root of the problem, which really doesn't lie with the general population or some lenient gun policies and laws, but rather with a tiny minority of the general population, and some criminals who will get guns illegally anyway and aren't affected by the strictness of the law in any state regarding gun ownership.

                                          The only thing I think can and should be made stricter, is the psych evaluation process. I think any business selling guns should be required to demand a thourough psych evaluation from anyone coming to purchase a gun.
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                                            #25    
                                          Old 1 Week Ago (3:57 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Nah.
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                                            Quote:
                                            Originally Posted by MortalPhoenix View Post
                                            Get your smugness out of here. Guns are rights in the USA, no matter how much you don't think they are. The only solution you have is to repeal the 2nd amendment. Also, don't forget that the news is a private industry that wants news that keeps their viewers coming back. Of course they are going to talk about all the shooting, it is what drives up their ratings. :/
                                            Values dissonance, my friend. You Americans having guns just feels alien and wrong to me. I can't help it. That said, every human life is worth the same no matter where they live. If those massacres keep happening, is there any value in human beings at all? Will it truly be a dog eats dog world where only the fittest deserve to live?

                                            Quote:
                                            Originally Posted by PhoenixIgnition View Post
                                            Here's what I think about the gun issue in the US, from my outsider non-american perspective:

                                            It seems that like a lot of issues in america, a tiny minority of psychos causes wide-spread hysteria which threatens the way of life of the vast majority of people, who are sane and law-abiding.

                                            From what I know, and correct me if i'm wrong, acquiring a gun legally in the US is not as easy as just going out and buying it. Not just anyone can do it legally. It seems like the problem lies mostly with people who don't have a criminal/mental history, get a gun and then commit a crime with it that's fueled by an undiagnosed, unnoticed mental disorder. Of course there is also the criminals who acquire guns illegally.

                                            The thing is... It seems like anti-gunners just want to take away guns from the general population and/or make it unnecesarilly harder for people to get them, rather than trying to attack the root of the problem, which really doesn't lie with the general population or some lenient gun policies and laws, but rather with a tiny minority of the general population, and some criminals who will get guns illegally anyway and aren't affected by the strictness of the law in any state regarding gun ownership.

                                            The only thing I think can and should be made stricter, is the psych evaluation process. I think any business selling guns should be required to demand a thourough psych evaluation from anyone coming to purchase a gun.
                                            True. But that still leaves the issue of guns being a 'right' in first place. If you know how, you can easily get one. There's a reason why that isn't the case over here in EU at all. If some people thing we are less free because of it, I think it's obvious they have never been here in first place.
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