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FE Echoes Discussion Thread

bobandbill

one more time
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Don't I need to reach to lvl 20 before I promote my units to max out their stats?
Not so much in this game actually! Partly due to lower stat growths to your more recent FE game and partly because if your stats are below the base for the promoted class, those stats get pulled up anyway, and partly because getting exp at a higher level is way slower. I've read that for most classes going to level ~10 is enough but even promoting ASAP will be fine for the most part.
 

Pinkie-Dawn

Vampire Waifu
9,528
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11
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Not so much in this game actually! Partly due to lower stat growths to your more recent FE game and partly because if your stats are below the base for the promoted class, those stats get pulled up anyway, and partly because getting exp at a higher level is way slower. I've read that for most classes going to level ~10 is enough but even promoting ASAP will be fine for the most part.

Man, it's no wonder why the FE Gaiden was said to be different from the rest of the entries before and after it. Does your unit gain more options to another class promotion when leveling up to 10+?
 

bobandbill

one more time
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Man, it's no wonder why the FE Gaiden was said to be different from the rest of the entries before and after it. Does your unit gain more options to another class promotion when leveling up to 10+?
I think the only classes with multiple choices on promotion is villager. You don't gain more if you wait.
 

CidHazard

just a miserable pile of secrets
582
Posts
7
Years
Fates' story and characters weren't bad because of the localization.[/url]

There where huge chunks of untranslated content, completely changing a characters personality, changing support conversations, and removing the darker themes of the story. People who have played FE: IF have stated how butchered the story in Fates was... That's why they're still actively translating the FE: If to completion.

Anyway,

There's no real reason to wait for your characters to get too lvl 20. Earlier classes have lower growth rates to the point where you could get only 1 stat improvement per level up... My Sonya had 3 levels where she only got a +3 to her skl. Also, if your stat is bellow minimum for the upgraded class - the class change will set your low stats to the minimum.

The only classes to get a real upgrade are Spellcasters, Pegasus knights, and Archers since they all get additional skills with their respective class ups... the other classes only have direct stat and growth rate increases.
 

L'Belle

I am beauty!
2,175
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8
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This game is really good! I love the artstyle too. Though I find the gameplay very outdated, which I don't like. The Maps are also atrociously bad.
 

CidHazard

just a miserable pile of secrets
582
Posts
7
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^ on the contrary I find that the map design is quite good... Since there's no weapon triangle Terrain effects are more important.

In every map you play, whether offence or defense, you'l always have the ability to make your units take the least amount of damage as possible if you position them, use the terrain, and funnel them correctly. compared to the another 3ds games It's not as good as Fate's map design... but it's leagues better than Awakening.

-Break-

Can we talk about the freaking media over blowing the FE Echoes DLC season pass... I mean come on the stuff in the DLC were not taken out of the game. Echoes is a completely fateful remake... All the classes you can get in Gaiden you can get in Echoes, no map was taken out of the game and placed as DLC.

My problem with these statements are; they're completely sensationalized... with no research what so ever.

They're arguments are:

1 - They took stuff out of the game: False
Grinding maps, the new classes, the prologue... were not included in Gaiden and is only a bonus. The fifth pack are the Cipher Characters... characters who are not in the original game...

2 - It's a 40$ game shouldn't have a 45$ Season pass/DLC: what???
It shouldn't matter how much the game is as long as the its rich and full of content. Also Awakening and Fates had 60 plus DLC's... what's the difference here, they called it a season pass.

3 - They're framing it as so you need these DLC to fully experience the game: False
The DLC is strictly extra content. Heck you can opt out of the grinding DLC altogether and the extra characters and just buy the prologue and extra class. which together should be around 19 dollars.

Sick and tired of these flash fire "Reporters" who do no research into what they're researching...
 

Nah

15,940
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498.gif
 

thedestinedblade

Radiant Cool Boy
3,340
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15
Years
Just got the villagers pitchfork today... planning to use it on Lukas.

Who are you guys going to use it on?

I used it on Lukas just because I don't find much use for Barons in this game. Made him a Mercenary and got him all the way to Dread Fighter, and now he's pretty much unstoppable.

I'm on Act 5 and just about nearing the end. Game felt kinda short, but it was enjoyable. Playing through this though makes me want Genealogy and Thracia 776 remakes very bad!
 

L'Belle

I am beauty!
2,175
Posts
8
Years
^ on the contrary I find that the map design is quite good... Since there's no weapon triangle Terrain effects are more important.

In every map you play, whether offence or defense, you'l always have the ability to make your units take the least amount of damage as possible if you position them, use the terrain, and funnel them correctly. compared to the another 3ds games It's not as good as Fate's map design... but it's leagues better than Awakening.

Big open fields on every map is not good map design. First it takes a few turns for most units to even get to eachother. Gaiden already had some of the worst maps and I hate that they didnt fix it. Both Awakening and Fates' maps, as well as pretty much every other fire emblem game has a lot better map design than this game.
 

Nah

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Yeah I'm not really feeling it with the map design in this game, but I want to get through some more of SoV (partway through Act 3 right now) and refresh my memory on the maps of the other games before I say more.

In other news, cantors are annoying. They haven't really made anything harder for me (which I thought they would've at Desaix's Fortress, but they kinda didn't), but it feels like they were made to waste your time, endlessly summoning dudes. And it irks me that their summoning of Terrors only costs them 1 HP each time and they have a skill that restores 5 HP per turn while Genny has to cough up 12 HP to use Invoke.

But I suppose I can only complain so much when they give me almost free EXP and I can rack up hilarious body counts like this:
WVW69kW8rM0VTq6kNF
 

CidHazard

just a miserable pile of secrets
582
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7
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Just replayed the first 10 chapters of awakening for reference...

I feel Both games, Echoes and Awakening, have a huge number of wide open maps the objective is just head on battles. With the difference that Echoes has better terrain advantages and Awakening has the op pair up mechanic.

My problem with awakening, especially with the first 5 maps, You had to position your units like a battering ram to take the enemy head on (The Pair up mechanic also reinforces this). This was worse in Lunatic maps, where you are in a huge disadvantage because of the map design. And you can't play around it... The awakening maps force you to play a certain way.

Echoes maps, because of said terrain severity enables you to move your units strategically. Because there's no weapon triangle moving tankeir units are way more important. Luring opponents out of tree coverage to shoot them with arrows (Does anybody feel that archers are super OP in this game especially when given a killer bow.) or take them on with your mages... Still dealing with witches and cantors with all the terrain gets really annoying,

In my opinion Echoes maps are better than Awakening... but both games are on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to FE map design.
 

thedestinedblade

Radiant Cool Boy
3,340
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15
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Finished it up Saturday night. It's a pretty faithful remake with a few things that still plague it from the original. Too bad the game lacks replay value. I guess you can try on higher difficulty, but since the supports are limited and you can pretty much use everyone for the whole game, I probably won't be playing it again anytime soon. Definitely a much more enjoyable experience for me than Fates though.

Let's hope Genealogy of the Holy War is next on the remake list as that's easily my favorite FE game, and will no doubt fangasm if announced.
 

Pinkie-Dawn

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I have a choice to fight either of Grieth's two commanders, and if I defeat one, then the other will join me. Which of the two is the better unit?
 

CidHazard

just a miserable pile of secrets
582
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7
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I have a choice to fight either of Grieth's two commanders, and if I defeat one, then the other will join me. Which of the two is the better unit?

Sonya and Deen...

Hmm... Both of them are solid units so either one is fine.

Deen is a strong Mercenary with good offensive stats... he also starts with a brave sword. Which he could use efficiently with his high Atk, Spd, Skl bases and growths.

Sonya has the potential to be the most useful mage in the game. With spells such as rewarp and entrap. She also has a 45% growth and 50% speed respectively.
 

Nah

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Kinda wish the two of them were of different classes though. They're not bad units, but like, do I really need a 4th mercenary, or even a another mage when you start with basically 3 of them on Celica's path? Finally getting a pegasus knight for Celica's group was better to me.
 

thedestinedblade

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Deen was one of the worst in the original game, but he's been buffed and both are solid choices now. I went with Sonya just because before choosing you get Jesse (another mercenary) and I felt having four is little bit of overkill. Plus, Genny's only supports are with Sonya so there was that as well.
 

Nah

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So I beat the game (er, not the post-game dungeon tho) a couple of days ago, so random thought dump because I have nothing else to do with myself:

Spoiler: lots of words

The story and characters are nothing special really. Nobody exactly blew me away as a character, and the story was pretty predictable for the most part. Not that this is new or anything.

That probably sounds liked I hated everyone, but that's not the case, they were a mostly likeable bunch. Suppose that happens when you fight through a bunch of shit with your little group(s) of friends. I just have a bit of a high standard for story and characters these days really. I have to give the game points for, at least some of time, not being hella black and white about things like a fair few games or even the previous 2 Fire Emblem games are. Black and white stories tend to be so shallow and boring and unrealistic. It sort of establishes this from the very beginning by portraying neither country as purely good or bad, unlike what they did with Nohr and Hoshido in Fates, and that neither Mila or Duma's philosophy was entirely right or wrong. You even see it a bit in some characters, like Clive for example, where he's a good guy but occasionally struggles with his own belief that deeds>birth status.

Part of it though I think is that I had rather high expectations for Fates' story and characters (and then it kind of didn't deliver) but low expectations for this one's. Wasn't really expecting much out of the story of a remake of a 90s FE game.

I feel like the lack of weapon durability being balanced out by stat debuffs was done better in this game than it was in Fates. I suppose part of this is that speed is the only thing that usually ever gets decreased by equipping more powerful weapons, but I never really liked using most of the higher end weapons in Fates because they would tend to decrease so many stats and, coupled with debuffs from enemy dagger/shuriken wielders, was so not worth it to me. A unit can only carry one item at a time anyway in Echoes, so there's that.

I kind of like magic in this game. When I first heard about HP magic cost I thought I was going to hate it and practically not ever want to use my mages, but the HP costs turned out to be pretty reasonable (especially when you factor in rings and that magic ignores the unusually strong terrain bonuses in this game) and having a varied arsenal of black and white magic at each mages' disposal was nice.

Armor units were pretty nice too, actually bothered to use a couple of them in SoV. With the exceptions of Gatrie in Radiant Dawn and Effie in Conquest (and the Black Knight in RD, but the BK isn't an armor unit, he is destruction in human form), I never liked using armor infantry units. The low movement, speed, and Res was rather unappealing to me in those games and felt like their high physical bulk often never made up for it enough. Also Awakening armor units were kinda fugly. But here they actually seemed worth it and looked good too. Archer range in this game was also really nice, even though Gray and Python were kind of disappointing as archers for me (Leon was pretty good though).

Though while I actually wanted to use armor units in this game, that brings me to the point that there was--or at least it felt like--a lack in unit variety. Alm's path gets no less than (and possible more than depending on villager promotions) 4 lance cavalry units. Mycen is cool and all, but hardly necessary when you have Mathilda and Zeke. Then meanwhile Celica's group is hogging all the mercs but gets one lance cavalry unit, and a bit late at that. Could've spread them around a bit. Also, where are the axe units in this game? Also would have nice to not have to wait until you can promote someone to a Dread Fighter to have an anti-mage units, given how potent it is in SoV (while I said it's balanced before, it's more so on the player's end).

Cantors suck, they're basically "fake difficulty" or meant to just drag shit out for no reason and are unbalanced nonsense.

Map design is....well, it's better than Awakening's because it's not hard to have better map design than Awakening there were a handful of decent maps+stronger terrain bonuses, but that's about it really. If you're not dealing with a map that's just basically a big open field, it's cantor bullshit in the swamps, or you're fighting a boss with asinine skills and/or magic. The final map was really a combination of all the bad parts about this game's map design: FOUR summoners, swamp tiles on the chokepoint, Jedah's Duma's Gift skill is a load of crap on a unit of his strength, Upheaval, Witch Teleportation, and all while you have to fight a fell dragon god. Also would've liked to see more map objectives than 90% Rout Enemy and 10% Defeat Commander.

Praise be Turnwheel.

Dungeons were, while pretty basic and the last two started to get annoying for me, fun and something that I hope returns in (all) future Fire Emblem titles. Dungeons were the one thing I was legitimately interested in pre-release and it was nice I was not disappointed with them, can't wait to see how they improve them.

....not much else I can think of to say about gameplay, it's still Fire Emblem at its core and so is good.

Music there's not much to talk about, one generally expects the soundtrack to be good in a major title and SoV does that. My favorites would probably be:
Spoiler:


The game's dialogue being fully voiced was also super nice and I hope that it can stay like that.

....so yeah
 
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