Ideas & Feedback for BTB & Battle Server

wolf · Feb 5, 2015

The purpose of this thread is simple: discuss what we can do to improve PC's battling community. In other words, this is a meta thread.

If this thread's most recent post is older than one month, you may still post.

srinator · Feb 5, 2015

I could help with the viability rankings thread, I have already made the basic structure with all the Oras mons a few weeks ago, I just need people who would be ready to write about how these threats works and we would be good. Something like anti and elf's old viability rankings thread really helped newcomers etc.

Also I would say the battle server needs a better staff/promotion structure. Basically no one person should have the power to promote anyone without prior discussion or just to flex power, some people might be okay with being promoted that way but some would really not.

Anti · Feb 6, 2015

First of all, glad to see a soul sister of this thread and I think a lot of issues people brought up there have improved, though some are still relevant. Will be as brief as possible, but this will be long anyway. lol.

The server atmosphere and commitment to battling have both gotten better, though I think the former has made a little more progress than the latter. Some of the initiatives that came up in the old thread exist now like the building workshop and the building competition, and they seem to be going well. I think the direction is good, though the divide between battlers and non (including people who only play randoms in this category) is still there.

A PC League Aggregate. First and foremost, it would be a directory for all of PC's leagues. Various events could be hosted, like a monthly war tournament between the leagues. Initially we could have one or two "chief leagues," which would be given official status on the battle server. If we have more leagues in the future, the aforementioned monthly tournament could be used to decide which are the chief leagues. This is already in the works, but feedback is welcome.

I think this is a fine idea, but...where are our leagues? I think their structure and purpose should be fleshed out a little more before proceeding. I have things to say about that, but did you want to speak to that at all first? If it's unclear what I'm getting at, we have "the wet league." What is this? Is it a joke? I legitimately don't know. I'm not trying to be malicious: I just don't get why it exists. Don't we need leagues before there is an infrastructure? Who would run them? etc.

We already have an ORAS Team Building Workshop, but more could possibly be done.
◦ Collaborate and make our own general guide on battling, particularly on team synergy and battle strategy.
◦ Provide a discussion/resource on what Pokemon we would recommend in the current metagame, similar to Smogon's viability rankings.

The first idea is intriguing and seems to effectively serve the purpose of what past suggestions--tutoring in particular--have been trying to get at. I don't see the need to rewrite the battle strategy one because there is a good one on Smogon that you link to in the Rules. Team synergy is more difficult though I could work this into the Workshop op. Synergy is like poetry - you know it when you see it, but it is quite difficult to describe and define. We can obviously try though.

To the second point, I'll c&p from the last iteration of this thread:

Anti said:
I think an OU threat list would be nice. Just a simple "huge threats / notable threats / niche threats" organization with basic typing/abilities/common movesets listings would be great, perhaps in the following format as an example:

[mini sprite, like the ones in the viability ranking threads on smogon]
LANDORUS [link to smogon analysis]
Ground / Flying
89 / 125 / 90 / 115 / 80 / 101
Sheer Force / Sand Force
Notable Attack Moves: Earth Power, Focus Blast, Psychic, Knock Off, Sludge Wave, Hidden Power [Ice]
Notable Set-Up Moves: Calm Mind, Rock Polish
Notable Support Moves: Stealth Rock
Checks: Specially Defensive Gliscor, Assault Vest Tornadus-T, Azumarill (RK), Mega Charizard Y, Chansey, Keldeo (RK), Thundurus (RK), Greninja (RK)

Short, sweet, and to the point, though it's pretty rough and is probably more optimally done some other way, maybe with a moveset focus but the point is that this might be nice. Also listing Pokemon and what Pokemon they check would be cool. (For example, on that list, Keldeo's entry would show that it checks Bisharp, Mega Tyranitar, Heatran, Landorus, Mega Mawile, etc.) We should have some kind of resource though, again for teambuilding help.

Is this what you mean by a resource? Would take an effort but wouldn't be too undoable.

As for viability rankings, the post quality in Smogon's thread is actually pretty bad but it might be better here without all the randos. What specifically did you have in mind? (You mentioned "similar to" and I'm not sure what this means exactly.)

◦ A thread where people can post their battle replays and ask for critique on how they played.
◦ It goes without saying that more tournaments would help with this. Perhaps a ladder tournament where people have to use one of three given Pokemon. It would get people out of their comfort zone and widen their perspectives on what's viable.
◦ A tutor program could be always considered, but the lack of available tutors and heavy reliance on the tutors' activity are both major problems. I think it's something that would be better to do later.

I'm really in favor of the first proposal. As it stands now, I think the current replay thread is terrible and should not be a sticky or perhaps removed altogether. Way too many "LOL LOOK AT THIS BAD PLAYER" posts. I think it might be cool to do what you've proposed as a replacement for the thread that exists now where you can either showcase a good battle *or* ask for help. It could get a little crowded, but it seems like a far better system than the one in place currently.

On the tournaments front, I want to quote Vrai's post from the last thread:

Vrai said:
I had one idea in particular that I wanted to share with you all: Smogon has a ton of official tournaments, and it could be a pretty great idea for everyone here to work together as a team to improve and try to perform well in these. Don't team share, but practice with each other. Aspire to succeed, and when people see that x person has made great strides, others might be more inclined to try with us next time too. Learn from everyone else, practice with everyone else, get better with everyone else, and be proud of everyone who did better than they did before. Sounds pretty good to me.

The UU ladder race is a small nudge in this direction, and I think it'd be awesome to do. One thing though is I'm not really sure our playerbase is at a point where they can actually do well in these things. This is where removing barriers of entry comes in, obviously. To that end, again from the last thread:

wolf said:
Battle Dojo: An event that encourages people to improve their battling skills. Two major aspects of it: a) try to get as high as possible on Smogon's ladder (perhaps while using a specific Pokemon?), and b) after practicing on the ladder, everyone battles each other in a tournament finale. Can split everyone into teams to spice things up.

We might want to gear this more toward newer players though, perhaps by setting ladder benchmarks (as easy as "get into the 1500s. the 1700s." etc.) since topping the ladder is outside most of our reaches. I would also be down for smaller tours that don't require a lot of commitment from a building perspective (lower tier tour, ou tour with a ban of megas, ou minus hazards, ou minus uturn/voltswitch, etc.) that would be fun and easy.

Tutoring is a no-go imo for the reasons you mentioned.

_______________________________

On the topic of tutoring/barriers of entry though, I just wonder how many people who aren't Archer and Sri are really invested in playing if we provided that infrastructure? I think it's an important question to ask...

Last thing which is unrelated to the OP and will be pretty long so it's in a spoiler:

Spoiler:

I hope no one takes this personally. It's not a personal attack on anyone; it's meant to be constructive, not destructive. :)

I feel like there is a lack of leadership in actually carrying out many of these initiatives, going back to the other thread and many of the things people agreed about. I feel none of the no-brainer initiatives that were discussed over the summer ended up happening until I came back from months off and did them myself over the last few weeks. I can't tell if this is fair or not, but I am a little frustrated that something like the building workshop or building competition, ideas that have been around for months, didn't happen until I pseudo-returned and did them myself. I know people are busy IRL and there are responsibilities that I didn't have to deal with when I moderated this forum (coding the server in particular), and I haven't forgotten how exhausting and demotivating having a staff position here can be, but something like the building comp's OP took very little time. Ditto with the workshop. Fair or not, I don't think it's too much to expect that those things have a better turnaround than half a year.

So yeah, while I'm sure this sounds unbearably pompous, I always feel like I'm stepping into a leadership vacuum whenever contributing to a thread like this or carrying out the ideas. I think it's very easy for people to put little effort into battling and whatever else when the server leadership in particular is not very active (at least visibly so) in dictating the direction of the forum, actively participating in battling events (or even in some cases the server chat), etc. People follow the example of their leadership, so I think leadership should set a more active and deliberate example.

I think this thread is a good start in reversing this trend, but it is just a start. It means very little if none of the suggestions are carried out or if the direction of the community remains unclear or seems haphazard. I think the following proposals would help:

1. Have somewhere where planned tournaments, events, initiatives (like the league aggregate, as an example) are visible to everyone so people who what is coming down the pipeline and what leadership has planned. Besides being more communicative, I think this has the advantage of encouraging people to volunteer contributions--"hey i saw that you're prepping a viability list/threat list, can i help?"--as well as offer suggestions. I think the OP of this thread is as good a place as any to have such information, though the rules or some other sticky could work as well.

2. The staff should more actively participate in the forum's battling events. Look at the team-building workshop or the building comp or the UU ladder race (or the old OU one) or really anything similar. How many BSS members do you see participating? I have no desire to rehash the "BSS members should be battlers!" debate from the last thread, and I think that would miss the point. It's not about battling/non-battling, it's about being visible as leaders and being an active presence in the community you lead or help moderate.

3. I already know what answer I'll get to this ("we already do this") but absentee staff should be removed. D_A's old post sums up my feelings nicely. The most minor of these points, but I might as well echo these sentiments while I'm on the topic.

4. The proposals that people agree on in this thread need to be carried out in a timely fashion. There is no point in asking for feedback if it won't affect change. I know I initiated the last thread so that pretense didn't exist last time, but now it does.

This isn't supposed to be a callout. I know there are things that happen behind the scenes that I am unaware of. That's fine, but then those things need to be communicated so there is more clarity and accountability in what happens here.

Nah · Feb 6, 2015

@Anti: Zeffy is working on a detailed OU threatlist actually. There's not much to it atm, but it's in the works.

I suppose my main problem with things the way they are now is that there's this separation between people who go on the server and people who go on the forum. There's very few people who are active on both the server and in the BTB forum itself. There's just few active regulars on the forum part, but then there's all these people who frequent the server who I think should get there asses down here and do things beyond the DCC, Counter That Pokemon, and this kind of discussion thread. Idk about the rest of you, but the fact that the same few people+random people you only ever see like once a year are the only ones posting is kinda bad. I'll admit that I'm a part of that problem too, since I'm on the forum a lot but rarely get on the server.

/incoherent rant

I do think that things have gotten better since the last time we discussed all this though.

Zeffy · Feb 7, 2015

Archer99 said:
Really, I can even say that BTB is one of the most quiet sections out here. We need to make more events and tournaments here, Not on the server. I'm down for making a couple of those.

Hosting a tournament is really easy, to be very honest. I think think it is important to reiterate that anyone can host tournaments. Just post your idea/thread in the approval forum and wait for either wolf or I to comment and approve your thread. As much as I would like to host more tournaments, university takes up most of my time at the moment and I can really only devote the weekends to other stuff.

What I am trying to say is that if you want more forum tournaments then do not rely on either wolf or I to host them for you all of the time.

Zekrom said:
@Anti: Zeffy is working on a detailed OU threatlist actually. There's not much to it atm, but it's in the works.

This is true, however I might postpone continuing progress on it since I am very busy at the moment. If anyone else wants to make an OU Threatlist, then be my guest! :)

I suppose my main problem with things the way they are now is that there's this separation between people who go on the server and people who go on the forum. There's very few people who are active on both the server and in the BTB forum itself. There's just few active regulars on the forum part, but then there's all these people who frequent the server who I think should get there asses down here and do things beyond the DCC, Counter That Pokemon, and this kind of discussion thread. Idk about the rest of you, but the fact that the same few people+random people you only ever see like once a year are the only ones posting is kinda bad. I'll admit that I'm a part of that problem too, since I'm on the forum a lot but rarely get on the server.

The server and BTB are very different environments. While BTB seems like a place where level-headed conversations can be held, the server is very, very different. Most people who visit the server are not even battlers nor active members of PC's forum. Saying that the server regulars should "get their asses" to BTB is like forcing a rock down their throat--they will not like it.

Nah · Feb 7, 2015

Zeffy said:
The server and BTB are very different environments. While BTB seems like a place where level-headed conversations can be held, the server is very, very different. Most people who visit the server are not even battlers nor active members of PC's forum. Saying that the server regulars should "get their asses" to BTB is like forcing a rock down their throat--they will not like it.

I get that the server and BTB are different environments, it's just that.....you'd think that people who frequent a battle server would have some interest in a forum section that's about battling too. Or am I crazy or something?

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that BTB needs more people in it. It's really no fun, and sometimes unhelpful, when it's just the same few people in here. It shouldn't be just Platinum doing most of the Team Help threads or Anti and Elf providing most of the help in the Workshop. Yeah, we can try to attract other people from elsewhere on PC, but there's also plenty of perfectly good people on the battle server too.

But uh thanks for letting us know that we all can host events in here. I was never sure if we could or not and probably wasn't the only one who thought that.

WestCoastShiny · Feb 7, 2015

Not sure what everyone thinks but I think it would be cool if we did something like the battle factory in D/P/PT. In the battle factory, you're given 3 random pokemon at first, and if you win the battle, you have the option to switch out 1 pokemon you are currently renting from a choice of 3 more. Of course, this comes complete with a summary. Or you can opt to stay with what you have. I think this would be awesome as a sort of tournament type of event and the winner of the tournament gets a prize. Would be even better if you could make it by tiers. Therefore, if you choose OU, you could only rent OU pokes.

Detox · Feb 7, 2015

I might as well throw in my two cents. I haven't been on PC or the server in a while, and I've only recently began to start hanging around again. However, I have noticed that a few of the same issues that were pointed out in the past are still here. I'll try to keep this as short as possible, but it may end up being long, idk.

In the past, the server atmosphere was sort of…horrible lol. There were a lot of contributing factors to this (hell, I was probably one of them lol), but honestly, it was never the fault of a single person. A lot of the times the server was treated as just a basic chatroom instead of what it actually was: a battle server. I am in no way shape form or fashion saying that chat pertaining to subjects other than competitive Pokémon is bad, or shouldn't be allowed, but at times it was just a bit ridiculous. People could come in asking for battles or team advice, and they would get completely ignored. If not, their messages would get swept away by a flood of messages about some random subject like someone's favorite flavor of ice cream. Yeah that sucked. I can say that since I've been back the atmosphere is a lot better, and there is a lot more competitive Pokémon talk (and battling!) than in the past, probably due to DA and Anti, not to mention the fact that tournaments are held like every hour or so. Even the majority of the server staff battle now (or at least try their best), so that's a huge plus as well. With that in mind, I have to say that sometimes the previously mentioned situation still happens, but it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be.

As far as the forum goes, I am trying to (and need to) invest more time into it myself, but I'm doing what I can while I have this backbreaker of a schedule at uni. Though, I do have a few qualms when it comes to certain things. One of the things I'll talk about is rating teams. Do note that this isn't a shot at anyone, but I feel that this needs to be addressed. I really think that there should be a guide or set of guidelines that informs those who want to rate teams of how to well…properly rate. A lot of times when I look at an RMT, there is actually very little advice being given, and just a lot of c+ping movesets from Smogon. While using a standard Smogon moveset is fine and dandy, a person won't really get anything useful out of someone saying "USE THIS" unless you thoroughly break it down and tell them why they should use it, why what they are using should be replaced, and so on. If a guidelines aren't your thing, then perhaps there can be a team rating workshop that gives a team out every week or so, and requires users to point out flaws in said team. It could be run similarly to the team building competition, but this is just a thought.

Another thing regarding team rating is the lack of participation (if you want to call it that, idk how to word it man) of the person who's team is getting rated. Of the few times I have rated teams since being back, I usually give a rate and then well…the thread dies. The user who posted the RMT doesn't come back and give any input or opinions on the rates that were given, and that's sort of a bummer to me. It'd be nice if people could at least give feedback to people who do rate so that they can figure out if their rate was helpful.

With all of that being said, that's it for now. If I need to say anything else I'll most likely make another post because I'm 90% sure I forgot something.

Anti · Feb 9, 2015

On RMTs:

Spoiler:

On server/forum relationship:

Spoiler:

I actually think Zekrom brings up a really important point here. This was an internal topic since back why I was a moderator (which was five or six years ago!) and I think that inertia speaks to the fact that they will always be some inherent differences in the forum and the server, as Zeffy described:

Zeffy said:
The server and BTB are very different environments. While BTB seems like a place where level-headed conversations can be held, the server is very, very different. Most people who visit the server are not even battlers nor active members of PC's forum. Saying that the server regulars should "get their asses" to BTB is like forcing a rock down their throat--they will not like it.

Still, I think this quotation is correct, but is the situation it describes desirable? I am not so sure. Also, I'll try my best not to rehash this old debate, but I am particularly struck by:

Zekrom said:
I get that the server and BTB are different environments, it's just that.....you'd think that people who frequent a battle server would have some interest in a forum section that's about battling too. Or am I crazy or something?

I mean, this pretty much encapsulates the common sense of "the battle server should be for battling." I won't go into a ton of detail here since you can find those thoughts in the old thread (linked in my previous post), but I think the (still-dominant) social IRC element of the server only exacerbates the forum-server split. I'm not sure the differences between the two are actually a problem, but if the primary difference is "one is about battling, one tangentially so" then I think it is a problem. And, look, I don't want to overstate the problem--it really is better than it was when this was brought up during the summer, such that I would say that the community as a whole is in the best shape that it has been in in years--but it hasn't exactly gone away either.

All that said, the forum does need a more explicitly defined purpose that also isn't contrived, and I always found carving out a legitimate niche for it when the server provides so much to be a difficult task. More on this in a second.

On events:

Spoiler:

Draft of ladder idea:

Spoiler:

Here's a rough draft of what a ladder achievement thread might look like, which I mentioned in my other post. Let me know what you think.

Heading: Smogon Ladder and Tournament Achievements Thread

Sub-Heading: Introduction

The purpose of this thread is to allow users to attempt to reach certain milestones while playing. Become a good player is a gradual process, and it's fun and rewarding to set and reach goals. It also sounds like a good way to foster some mutual encouragement in the community by cheering each other on, showcasing when we achieve certain milestones, etc.

Here in the OP will be a list of milestones along with a list of the people who have completed them.

For laddering milestones, simply post a screenshot of your ranking--be sure to include the name in the top right indicating that you're logged in under that name!--as proof, and we will add you to the OP. [Note that the OP will only list your highest achievement, so for example, if you make it into the OU 1800s, you will not be listed under the 1700s, 1600s, and so on, so as to reduce clutter.]

Tournament milestones will function differently. For tournaments, we will use the thread to discuss what tournaments on Smogon that as a community we'd like to try to enter and succeed in. You can enter any of them individually and post your result, but it would be more fun and communal if we did these things together! The OP will be updated with placings for each tournament we decide on (possibly with a vote - still working out this detail exactly) as well as any finals placements or first place finishes in a Smogon tournament.

Sub-Heading: Ladder Milestones

OU - Top of the Ladder

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - Top 10

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - Top 100

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - Top 500

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1900s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1800s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1700s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1600s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1500s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1400s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1300s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1200s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1100s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Other Official Tier - Top of the Ladder

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Other Official Tier - Top 10

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Other Official Tier - Top 100

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Other Official Tier - Top 500

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU Suspect Ladder - Voting Requirement COIL [usually 2700]

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Sub-Heading: Tournament Placements

Any Smogon Tournament - First Place

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Any Smogon Tournament - Finalist

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

insert tournament we decide on - Placings

Spoiler:

user 1: finalist
users 2 and 3: semifinalists
etc

insert tournament we decide on2 - Placings

Spoiler:

!!!

insert tournament we decide on3 - Placings

Spoiler:

!!!

Nah · Feb 13, 2015

Oh yeah one little thing I was thinking of....stickies. There's currently 8 stickies for BTB. I'm fine with a section having a lot of stickies, but since we're now creating more community resources and events and things that could be stickyed, should we start reorganizing them and stuff? At the very least the current replays thread should be un-stuck and replaced with the replays thing Anti suggested.

Lunarose · Feb 15, 2015

I'd like to offer a bit of my opinion here, I'm going to be honest and say that I'm pretty positive not many people know me on this forum since I just came back a while ago (hopefully that changes), but I think I've been getting a better feel of how the community works and this sub-forum works, etc. so hopefully my contribution could help.

I think there should be some sort of re-vamp or emphasis on certain guidelines.
Looking at the guidelines, you can notice this:

Spoiler:

I feel like this is blatantly overlooked by many people who post RMT's and thus it can be difficult to actually rate the team when the person doesn't specify what each Pokemon does for their team, and rather just pastes it from a Pokemon Showdown import. It seems really common and more likely with people who log on once & then never again, and while not much can be done about that, emphasis on this rule/guideline could be enforced to promote quality responses. Because unless it's obvious what the Pokemon does, again, it's just a copy and pasting of their team and expecting the community to just re-make the team. For example, can't people explain what Pokemon they would like to keep, their team building process, roles for each specific Poke, why they chose each move-set and what they have the most trouble with? Maybe even some replays of some of their best or worst battles, and what they could improve on. If they don't, a mod could message them and direct them to the guidelines so that they can post a proper RMT thread. it seems kind of lenient to be honest.
On that note, I've seen pretty minimal participation in general in these forums, and it's pretty much just the same few people.

I like the idea of the League Directory, it'll definitely be useful.
Would clans be able to work out? I'm not sure how successful they were in the past, so maybe someone could fill me in. It could start off with a tournament of top 5/top 3 clans. I've always liked the idea of clans because they promote working together with people whether it's team building or just practicing, and if a tournament were to be made there'd be more incentive to make a clan. It'd promote more competitiveness too.

Detox · Feb 17, 2015

Alright well I know this doesn't happen that often, but when it does it's sort of…restricting and annoying. Sometimes a troll or whatever finds their way to the server, and sometimes they evade the bans within seconds and someone throws on a modchat rank. Instead of being forced to do this, is there any other option that can be used that doesn't prevent 90% of the users online from talking when it is set to a rank higher than autoconfirmed? Also, genuinely curious, but isn't the bot supposed to stop these sort of things from happening?

srinator · Feb 17, 2015

Yeah you could promote regulars and trusted individuals to a certain invisible rank and a type of restricted chat can be set up during massive trolling spree's. So people who actually talk don't get bothered and u don't have promote people temporarily, also a rule where if ur the only mod on and u have to leave put in a modchat, auto confirmed p much sucks and is useless ;/

wolf · Feb 17, 2015

This post is really long so I'm putting it in a spoiler.

Spoiler:

Re: Quality of team rates: It's certainly something that could be improved and we could really benefit from an up-to-date team rating guide.

srinator said:
Also I would say the battle server needs a better staff/promotion structure. Basically no one person should have the power to promote anyone without prior discussion or just to flex power, some people might be okay with being promoted that way but some would really not.

If you're referring to what I think you are, that was a slipup and a misunderstanding. We always discuss promotions before carrying them out.

Anti:

Spoiler:

Anti said:
I think this is a fine idea, but...where are our leagues? I think their structure and purpose should be fleshed out a little more before proceeding. I have things to say about that, but did you want to speak to that at all first? If it's unclear what I'm getting at, we have "the wet league." What is this? Is it a joke? I legitimately don't know. I'm not trying to be malicious: I just don't get why it exists. Don't we need leagues before there is an infrastructure? Who would run them? etc.

A league's structure and purpose is up to the owner. The structure of a typical league is the same as in-game leagues (Trainers, Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and Champion). People sign up and join events within the league to go up its ranks. Outsiders can challenge the league. The purpose is to simply provide a new way to battle in the community, as well as "encourage our community to improve their battling skills." In my opinion, the main focus of leagues are the events held within them (such as server tournaments), the use of room authority as an incentives for going up the ranks, the group efforts in supporting each other, and the competition between the leagues.

I'm planning to make my own league to kick things off. Right now I'm considering whether it should be focused on UU or OU. Maybe I'll do both in the same league.

With that said, I don't think I should hold off on making the aggregate. It's mainly to organize every future associated league in one place, encourage people to make rival leagues, set some basic guidelines and understanding about what leagues usually are, etc.

Team synergy is more difficult though I could work this into the Workshop op.

I'd rather have a separate thread for it as it would be more organized and I could link to it.

To the second point, I'll c&p from the last iteration of this thread:

Is this what you mean by a resource? Would take an effort but wouldn't be too undoable.

As for viability rankings, the post quality in Smogon's thread is actually pretty bad but it might be better here without all the randos. What specifically did you have in mind? (You mentioned "similar to" and I'm not sure what this means exactly.)

I mean like a discussion where everyone can post recommendations about what should or shouldn't be used in the current metagame. The OP (or others) can decide which are valid enough to include in the first post. So in a way it would be similar to viability rankings but without actual rankings and on a smaller scale.

I'm really in favor of the first proposal. As it stands now, I think the current replay thread is terrible and should not be a sticky or perhaps removed altogether. Way too many "LOL LOOK AT THIS BAD PLAYER" posts. I think it might be cool to do what you've proposed as a replacement for the thread that exists now where you can either showcase a good battle *or* ask for help. It could get a little crowded, but it seems like a far better system than the one in place currently.

I think it's important to have a sticky for showcasing battle replays so that people have a place to share their battles. Battle replays have essentially replaced warstories, and they don't really belong in individual threads.

We might want to gear this more toward newer players though, perhaps by setting ladder benchmarks (as easy as "get into the 1500s. the 1700s." etc.) since topping the ladder is outside most of our reaches.

Yeah I was thinking about including the Battle Dojo idea in the OP, but the UU Ladder Tour shares the same format anyway. Benchmarks would be really neat though.

Here's a rough draft of what a ladder achievement thread might look like, which I mentioned in my other post. Let me know what you think.

Spoiler:

Heading: Smogon Ladder and Tournament Achievements Thread

Sub-Heading: Introduction

The purpose of this thread is to allow users to attempt to reach certain milestones while playing. Become a good player is a gradual process, and it's fun and rewarding to set and reach goals. It also sounds like a good way to foster some mutual encouragement in the community by cheering each other on, showcasing when we achieve certain milestones, etc.

Here in the OP will be a list of milestones along with a list of the people who have completed them.

For laddering milestones, simply post a screenshot of your ranking--be sure to include the name in the top right indicating that you're logged in under that name!--as proof, and we will add you to the OP. [Note that the OP will only list your highest achievement, so for example, if you make it into the OU 1800s, you will not be listed under the 1700s, 1600s, and so on, so as to reduce clutter.]

Tournament milestones will function differently. For tournaments, we will use the thread to discuss what tournaments on Smogon that as a community we'd like to try to enter and succeed in. You can enter any of them individually and post your result, but it would be more fun and communal if we did these things together! The OP will be updated with placings for each tournament we decide on (possibly with a vote - still working out this detail exactly) as well as any finals placements or first place finishes in a Smogon tournament.

Sub-Heading: Ladder Milestones

OU - Top of the Ladder

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - Top 10

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - Top 100

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - Top 500

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1900s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1800s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1700s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1600s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1500s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1400s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1300s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1200s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU - 1100s:

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Other Official Tier - Top of the Ladder

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Other Official Tier - Top 10

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Other Official Tier - Top 100

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Other Official Tier - Top 500

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

OU Suspect Ladder - Voting Requirement COIL [usually 2700]

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Sub-Heading: Tournament Placements

Any Smogon Tournament - First Place

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

Any Smogon Tournament - Finalist

Spoiler:

None - let's get it!

insert tournament we decide on - Placings

Spoiler:

user 1: finalist
users 2 and 3: semifinalists
etc

insert tournament we decide on2 - Placings

Spoiler:

!!!

insert tournament we decide on3 - Placings

Spoiler:

!!!

Click to expand...

Like I said in our PMs, I'll get this up soon.

Zeffy said:
The server and BTB are very different environments. While BTB seems like a place where level-headed conversations can be held, the server is very, very different. Most people who visit the server are not even battlers nor active members of PC's forum. Saying that the server regulars should "get their asses" to BTB is like forcing a rock down their throat--they will not like it.

"Most people who visit the server are not even battlers" isn't a true statement nowadays. All of our regulars (sans around >5 people) at least dabble in battling (not counting Randbats). So, I think Zekrom's concern is definitely valid. We need to encourage those people to invest more time into battling.

WestCoastShiny said:
Not sure what everyone thinks but I think it would be cool if we did something like the battle factory in D/P/PT. In the battle factory, you're given 3 random pokemon at first, and if you win the battle, you have the option to switch out 1 pokemon you are currently renting from a choice of 3 more. Of course, this comes complete with a summary. Or you can opt to stay with what you have. I think this would be awesome as a sort of tournament type of event and the winner of the tournament gets a prize. Would be even better if you could make it by tiers. Therefore, if you choose OU, you could only rent OU pokes.

There was an event like this not too long ago. Perhaps message the owner and see if they could revive it?

Zekrom said:
Oh yeah one little thing I was thinking of....stickies. There's currently 8 stickies for BTB. I'm fine with a section having a lot of stickies, but since we're now creating more community resources and events and things that could be stickyed, should we start reorganizing them and stuff? At the very least the current replays thread should be un-stuck and replaced with the replays thing Anti suggested.

I'm thinking of making a better forum splash for displaying important threads. That way we can keep certain threads displayed at the top without cluttering the sticky list.

Lunarose said:
I think there should be some sort of re-vamp or emphasis on certain guidelines.
Looking at the guidelines, you can notice this:

Spoiler:

State what generation/format or game the team is for. If not, the standard format will be assumed.
◦ Try to include descriptions on your team and its Pokémon. What is the team's goal? What are the roles for each of your Pokémon? What does your team have trouble with?
◦ Don't rely on others to build your team for you. They can help guide you while you are building a team, but remember that it's your team and not theirs.

I feel like this is blatantly overlooked by many people who post RMT's and thus it can be difficult to actually rate the team when the person doesn't specify what each Pokemon does for their team, and rather just pastes it from a Pokemon Showdown import. It seems really common and more likely with people who log on once & then never again, and while not much can be done about that, emphasis on this rule/guideline could be enforced to promote quality responses. Because unless it's obvious what the Pokemon does, again, it's just a copy and pasting of their team and expecting the community to just re-make the team. For example, can't people explain what Pokemon they would like to keep, their team building process, roles for each specific Poke, why they chose each move-set and what they have the most trouble with? Maybe even some replays of some of their best or worst battles, and what they could improve on. If they don't, a mod could message them and direct them to the guidelines so that they can post a proper RMT thread. it seems kind of lenient to be honest.

Yeah we've been discussing this issue in the staff forums. The problem is that most people seeking advice here are very new to the game. Newbies rarely put much thought into their initial teams, so they'll usually add throwaway filler like "this is my special sweeper." We could close RMTs that don't have explanations, but I'm unsure if it would be too harsh.

We could also create a sub-forum for completed teams and apply thread approval to it. One of the old iterations of this forum used to have thread approval, but I don't remember why approval was done away with. Anti could enlighten us on that. It's also worth noting that sub-forums usually suffer from inactivity (Battle Center is proof of that) due to being separated from the main forum.

I like the idea of the League Directory, it'll definitely be useful.
Would clans be able to work out? I'm not sure how successful they were in the past, so maybe someone could fill me in. It could start off with a tournament of top 5/top 3 clans. I've always liked the idea of clans because they promote working together with people whether it's team building or just practicing, and if a tournament were to be made there'd be more incentive to make a clan. It'd promote more competitiveness too.

Actually, my idea was originally for clans before leagues became a trend on the battle server. I think it's a false dichotomy for the most part. Leagues can often have different structures so the only notable difference between the two are that leagues accept challenges from outsiders. Leagues can have "war" tournaments too anyway. I'll consider changing it to "Battling Group Aggregate" or something similar.

King Syn said:
Alright well I know this doesn't happen that often, but when it does it's sort of…restricting and annoying. Sometimes a troll or whatever finds their way to the server, and sometimes they evade the bans within seconds and someone throws on a modchat rank. Instead of being forced to do this, is there any other option that can be used that doesn't prevent 90% of the users online from talking when it is set to a rank higher than autoconfirmed? Also, genuinely curious, but isn't the bot supposed to stop these sort of things from happening?

srinator said:
Yeah you could promote regulars and trusted individuals to a certain invisible rank and a type of restricted chat can be set up during massive trolling spree's. So people who actually talk don't get bothered and u don't have promote people temporarily, also a rule where if ur the only mod on and u have to leave put in a modchat, auto confirmed p much sucks and is useless ;/

We're currently discussing new methods of dealing with this, so I'll get back to you guys on it.

@Syn: You can ask a mod to temporarily promote you to room player (star rank) in order to bypass modchat. And no, the bot cannot automatically figure out who is a troll and who isn't. That's far too subjective for it anyway, unless the troll uses a banned phrase or floods the chat. We can use the bot to blacklist users, but they can still change their IP and username.

@sri: Invisible ranks aren't possible. I'd have to code an exception list for modchat, but I wouldn't know how to go about that. Still something to keep in mind nonetheless.

Yoshikko · Feb 17, 2015

Anti said:
3. I already know what answer I'll get to this ("we already do this") but absentee staff should be removed. D_A's old post sums up my feelings nicely. The most minor of these points, but I might as well echo these sentiments while I'm on the topic.

i was gonna say this but that was before i knew anti and da already said it basically, i agree with this tidbit here. (i agree with a lot of other things also, great suggestions etc) but anyways, it feels quite annoying to me to see mods or admins come on the server that i've literally seen online once before, just because they're (s)mods on the forum. i feel like the server should be more separate from the forum than that, or something. other than that i don't have much to add.

wolf · Feb 17, 2015

Yoshikko said:
i was gonna say this but that was before i knew anti and da already said it basically, i agree with this tidbit here. (i agree with a lot of other things also, great suggestions etc) but anyways, it feels quite annoying to me to see mods or admins come on the server that i've literally seen online once before, just because they're (s)mods on the forum. i feel like the server should be more separate from the forum than that, or something. other than that i don't have much to add.

No worries, we're handling it.

As for super mods though, the battle server is affiliated with PC so smods and admins are given ownership of it. This something you would have to bring up with them.

Zeffy · Feb 18, 2015

King Syn said:
Also, genuinely curious, but isn't the bot supposed to stop these sort of things from happening?

Short answer: it isn't. The bot acts as a safety net to catch things that are otherwise overlooked by the mods. The bot is actually very lenient compared to the one that main is using, and the primary reason we added it is to take auto ban blacklisted (permabanned) users.

punkysaur · Feb 18, 2015

For developing the skills of battlers-
I have read about a certain program known as "Battling 101"on smmogon forums.Here experienced battlers mentor noobs and help on every aspect of battling.They chat via skype or IRC(I don't know what's IRC,lol),
If you want more info check smogon!
I could have given you a link but I don't know if it's allowed!

Nah · Feb 18, 2015

punkysaur said:
For developing the skills of battlers-
I have read about a certain program known as "Battling 101"on smmogon forums.Here experienced battlers mentor noobs and help on every aspect of battling.They chat via skype or IRC(I don't know what's IRC,lol),
If you want more info check smogon!
I could have given you a link but I don't know if it's allowed!

We have discussed a mentor system before, but the problem with it here is lack of commitment from the mentees and/or the mentors. Not to mention that we just don't have nearly as large of a battling community as Smogon.

And you can post links btw. You just need to have more than 15 posts, which you do.

El Héroe Oscuro · Feb 18, 2015

This is my first time posting in this forum as a whole so if I'm in the wrong place to propose this then please slap me on the wrist and scold me because I really don't know better:

I was pondering this thought the other day on the server when someone - I forget their name unfortunately - brought up this interesting suggestion that I think was overlooked. As of now, their is a shop in which people can buy certain perks (very cool by the way) ranging from avatars to customized titles and so on and so forth. The only way in which a person can get BP's or the currency for the shop is via winning tournaments.

The key word I want to focus on is winning. The Battle Server has it's fair share of great battlers. You've got Dark Azelf, srinator, the mods, etc. etc., and more likely than not they'll have a better chance of winning the entire tournament. As the spoils only go to the supreme victor, this can be pretty disheartening for new users who have either just joined the server or are looking to garb themselves in shop perks.

What I'd like to propose is a system which awards people on winning battles in tournaments. What this would mean is that you don't have to win the entire tournament to earn BPs for the shop. With each battle that you do win, you earn a single BP. This way, there is still a way for average battlers to access the shop's perks and hopefully an increase in satisfaction with the server as a whole. In retrospect, you can eliminate the first place prize as the BPs the overall winner gets will more over equal what they would have gotten anyways with the current system. Tournament wins can still show in the user's profile.

That's about it for my two cents. I'm going to visit this forum a lot more because personally I need to get more into battling and this is a good place to access it. Let me know what y'all think of this, because I personally think it would be a good idea to boost morale on the server (not saying that it necessarily needs to be boosted because it's low, but it will create an even better feeling than the one there now.)

Ideas & Feedback for BTB & Battle Server

More options

wolf

srinator

Guest

Anti

return of the king

Nah

Zeffy

g'day

Nah

WestCoastShiny

Detox

Guest

Anti

return of the king

Nah

Lunarose

replaced by lies

Detox

Guest

srinator

Guest

wolf

Yoshikko

the princess has awoken while the prince sleeps on

wolf

Zeffy

g'day

punkysaur

Nah

El Héroe Oscuro

IG: elheroeoscuro