Suspects (round 2)

Ratty524 said:

Landlos is very much a glass cannon. While sand power gives it a tremendous edge, it's still not that hard to get rid of it. Flying types and good physical walls can kind of mess up it's streak, with Gliscor coming to mind, depending on whether your set is physical or special. I can't imagine it being broken.

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The thing with Landlos is that is destroys and utterly dismantles any physical wall in the game (hell Swords Dance Stone Edge with a Life Orb boost in the sand 2hko's smogons on site Bronzong. Bear in mind that Bronzong both resists the move, is amazingly bulky and Stone Edge isn't even STAB'd). Gliscor for example even if physically defensive is nearly OHKO'd by SD LO Stone Edge alone because Landlos is that ridiculously powerful. It also crushes any flying type easily, even Skarmory.

I wouldn't really call it a glass cannon either. 89/90/80 Defenses are actually decent for a sweeper with only 2 weaknesses and alot of opportunities to come in (EQ, CC's etc).

EDIT:

Whilst im at it ill do some predictions since my ones last time were spot on.

Rankurusu : I have a feeling this will be uber or suspect next round again. The sheer number of nominations it got is nothing to sneeze at especially by better payers too.

Landlos: Uber. I expect this to be overwhelmingly uber actually lol.

Doryuuzu: I dont think this thing will be banned or even get a majority, so OU. Its way too easy to stop and id be shocked if it was.

Manaphy: Have no idea why this is still not banned, but people for some reason arent voting it uber. I predict this will be uber or suspect again .

Latios: Suspect again next round. I dont expect this to be banned yet. Though it was nominated a few times so im unsure.

Rain + Drizzle on same team: Uber. Sadly the bandwagon and support is too much lol

It's going to be a sad day for Politoed soon then. :'( I'll just give a nod to either Uber, OU or Suspect if I'm still undecided.

Reuniclus: I'd say Uber on this one, CBScizor 80BS Pursuit, I believe, isn't a guaranteed 2HKO on 252 Def Bold versions. Ultimately this Pokemon has too many things going for it; reliable recovery, awesome bulk, calm mind, high Sp. Atk, access to Trick Room and especially Magic Guard. Its too much to handle frankly. Uber

Landlos: I myslef haven't had too much trouble with it, it's electric brother takes care of it on the switch or just by out speeding if its not running Scarf. But I can't ignore its sheer power and wall breaking ability. Suspect

Excadrill: Uh...no? This thing is pretty easily countered or checked; Breloom, Conckeldurr, Gliscor, Azumarril, Weather, Quagsire, Skarmory, Landlos, Erufuun, Sableye, Lickillicky (lol), Rotom-W, Dragonite at full HP (or lower if it hasn't SDed) etc. Priority in general, and only listed what off the top of my head. OU

Manaphy: I think we're all in agreeance that this should of been an insta-ban. Uber

Latios: Pursuit weak, but with specs Draco Meteor might as well be unresisted, specially defensive Ttar is a decent counter. I'm leaning towards uber especially with how well it can open up the Double Dragon strategy again but for now I'm still undecided. Suspect, leaning towards Uber

Drizzle + Swift Swim: I don't agree with this at all. Maybe a limit on swift swim users and rain is a decent idea but not allowing a single swift swim user is ridiculous. I feel as if you're going to ban Drizzle and Swift Swim you might as well ban all weather, except maybe hail. :P OU

All of these Pokemon are BANNED on the PC server until a decision is made on Smogon.

Just as an FYI.

I dunno, why aren't we testing inconsistent? Takes all the skill out of pokemon and makes everything a luck based game. :/

Cycle said:

I dunno, why aren't we testing inconsistent? Takes all the skill out of pokemon and makes everything a luck based game. :/

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Inconsistent has been banned on Smogon/here for a while now. Not sure about the official server though, but it should be since there is an Inconsistent ban in their server scripts.

Landlos hasn't been listed as a suspect this round because of a bug with Sand Power increasing attack by 1.5 instead of 1.3.

Right now, Aldaron's proposal went through, so Drizzle and Swift Swim are banned on the same team. In place of Landlos, Deoxys-N is being considered for OU.

Silent Storm said:

Landlos hasn't been listed as a suspect this round because of a bug with Sand Power increasing attack by 1.5 instead of 1.3.

Right now, Aldaron's proposal went through, so Drizzle and Swift Swim are banned on the same team. In place of Landlos, Deoxys-N is being considered for OU.

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Ughhhh as if 20% makes a damn bit of difference ? It still OHKO's anything non resistant to it and 2hko's Zong in sand with SD LO SE. -__-

Thats stupid honestly, i wanted Ladlos gone more than any of the others. x-x

Dark Azelf said:

Thats stupid honestly, i wanted Ladlos gone more than any of the others. x-x

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^

So basically the metagame is now "spam Landlos"? :s

Philip7086 of Smogon said:

Okay, deadline's up! Results are in!

Deoxys-N: 32 Uber, 15 OU, 2 Abstain (71.1%)
Doryuuzu: 16 Uber, 31 OU, 2 Abstain (34.0%)
Latios: 17 Uber, 27 OU, 5 Abstain (38.6%)
Manapy: 29 Uber, 18 OU, 2 Abstain (61.7%)
Rankurusu: 12 Uber, 34 OU, 3 Abstain (26.1%)

In other words, the only tiering difference we will see next round is Manaphy being banned from OU. Deoxys-N will remain Uber, and the rest of the suspects will remain OU.

I'm in talks with Super to get all the changes from this round implemented on the ladder, so keep an eye out for an announcement when it's ready. Thanks again everybody for your hard work! See you next round!

Also, special thanks to reachzero for doing the tallies for this round again!

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Results are in guys.

Thoughts ?

Everyone's going to start abusing Rank. Stupid Smogon, stop bringing threats to light. :[

Vrai said:

Everyone's going to start abusing Rank. Stupid Smogon, stop bringing threats to light. :[

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I dont mind Rank, at least it has counters and checks. Landlos doesn't. :\

God that thing is the luckiest ass ive ever seen to avoid the suspect vote due to a glitch lol. -_-

Vrai said:

Everyone's going to start abusing Rank. Stupid Smogon, stop bringing threats to light. :[

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I never really had any issues with Rank and frankly, I'm glad it's staying OU.

As for the results, pretty much what I expected to happen.

However, I'm with Dark Azelf on Landlos. I'd like to see it gone as well. :x

so when does this get banned again? I've lost like three straight matches in a row. :l

Dark Azelf said:

I dont mind Rank, at least it has counters and checks. Landlos doesn't. :\

God that thing is the luckiest ass ive ever seen to avoid the suspect vote due to a glitch lol. -_-

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Landlos has checks, many carry HP ice now for Gliscor so ice shard checks those, among many things... and even sub versions (assuming they can set up) can be checked by icicle spear scarf cloyster. These are 100% checks aswell as being useful in other situations.

jkriall said:

Landlos has checks, many carry HP ice now for Gliscor so ice shard checks those, among many things... and even sub versions (assuming they can set up) can be checked by icicle spear scarf cloyster. These are 100% checks aswell as being useful in other situations.

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Scarf Cloyster doesn't beat it (rofl @ scarf cloyster). Landlos used Rock Polish. Also unboosted Jolly LO EQ Vs 0/0 neutral "scarf Cloyster" in Sand 66.4% - 78.8% aka pretty much OHKO'd with SR up, even more so with SS damage. Terribad check. Thats just Earthquake, not even super effective like Stone Edge is. :\

And no it actually doesn't have any good checks apart from HP Ice Tangrowth and Virizion that is it. One loses to U-Turn and HP Ice whilst the other gets 2hko'd by UNBOOSTED LO EQ despite resisting it lol.

Also there are 2/3 viable Ice Shard users, Weavile and Mamo (people use CB Cloyster? lol). None of them can switch in so are revenge killers at best and all get owned by "Landlos used Sub/flat out just uses any move on the switch so i guess you leave the room now"? I mean you can Ice Shard Rayquaza and Skymin, doesn't stop them from being broken and uber.

Don't kid yourself it hardly has any reliable checks or counters lol. As i said before, "it 2hko's Bronzong with unstab SD LO SE in Sand" doesn't that scream broken ?

Rank in OU put a smile on my face, and the Latios staying OU leads me to the assumption that Latias will end up there, too.
I love to use the latis, but they hit extremely hard, so I wouldn't mind them as ubers.
Anyhow, 20% doesn't mean much, I'm sure Landlos is still a rape machine.

Manaphy gone I'm happy with because bulky Tail Glow is annoying. tbh I don't really mind much about the others because Dory and Latios can be checked as can Rank although TR sets are annoying.

Also HP Ice Landlos with RP is weak because it literally gets walled by a lot more stuff and a lot more can beat it. Double Dance or even a Sub SD are far more dangerous imo. Really the only things you're gonna touch Landlos with is priority once it gets an RP up, but the Sub set laughs at that. Landlos is really tough to beat in Sandstorm, so I do think it should be suspect or banned.

Dark Azelf said:

Scarf Cloyster doesn't beat it (rofl @ scarf cloyster). Landlos used Rock Polish. Also unboosted Jolly LO EQ Vs 0/0 neutral "scarf Cloyster" in Sand 66.4% - 78.8% aka pretty much OHKO'd with SR up, even more so with SS damage. Terribad check. Thats just Earthquake, not even super effective like Stone Edge is. :\

And no it actually doesn't have any good checks apart from HP Ice Tangrowth and Virizion that is it. One loses to U-Turn and HP Ice whilst the other gets 2hko'd by UNBOOSTED LO EQ despite resisting it lol.

Also there are 2/3 viable Ice Shard users, Weavile and Mamo (people use CB Cloyster? lol). None of them can switch in so are revenge killers at best and all get owned by "Landlos used Sub/flat out just uses any move on the switch so i guess you leave the room now"? I mean you can Ice Shard Rayquaza and Skymin, doesn't stop them from being broken and uber.

Don't kid yourself it hardly has any reliable checks or counters lol. As i said before, "it 2hko's Bronzong with unstab SD LO SE in Sand" doesn't that scream broken ?

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I wasn't denying it being broken, just that it has "no checks". A check doesn't have to switch into it, that's a counter- I agree it has no reliable counter. The only way it has of avoiding the checks I mentioned is to set up both sub and rock polish (wouldn't be surprised if a more defensive cloyster could survive a SE, and 1HKO with icicle spear anyway). You could say many other pokes have no checks when allowed to set up twice.

jkriall said:

I wasn't denying it being broken, just that it has "no checks". A check doesn't have to switch into it, that's a counter- I agree it has no reliable counter. The only way it has of avoiding the checks I mentioned is to set up both sub and rock polish (wouldn't be surprised if a more defensive cloyster could survive a SE, and 1HKO with icicle spear anyway). You could say many other pokes have no checks when allowed to set up twice.

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A check can switch in

→ Check
A check is a Pokémon that can come in on a foe threat to, if you will, "check" to see what the opponents Pokémon does and determines how you deal with said threat from there on out. Checks are often more useful on offensive teams than counters as you don't have to go right out of your way to try and find a surefire counter for something so you can still carry on your offensive gameplan without crippling your team offensively. These are not 100% surefire counters but can switch in on the majority of the threat in questions moves, often its main STAB moves, with ease and again drive the threat in question away or threaten to KO it if it stays in and often outspeed the foe as well. An example of a check is Lucario and Scizor as Tyranitar checks and Salamence as a Lucario check.

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If it cant switch in its a revenge killer.

It doesn't need to set up twice or use sub and Rock Polish to avoid those checks, it just needs to EQ on the switch "so if it does that i guess you just leave the room or what?". Its kinda like calling Pendorra a Latios check just because it KO's with Megahorn when it gets crushed by anything on Lati@s set. Basically faster checks get pwned by Rock Polish and slower ones get crushed by SD and Sand Force makes it broken because of its ability to boost either stat in a heartbeat.

Defensive Cloyster cant live an unboosted LO Stone Edge btw lol

Dark Azelf said:

Defensive Cloyster cant live an unboosted LO Stone Edge btw lol

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Eh... that's ridiculous.

Misunderstood check nvm lol, at least it can be revenge killed.