Schools

I have no idea how schools are run in other countries but American school are pretty much messed up. Like in my school system at the very least (idk about the whole country) they said one test can determine if you are college and career ready. Like really, thats a Algebra 2 PARCC test, that wont tell you much at all beyond if you are learning anything in the class of Algebra 2. For me, I gotta pass Algebra 1 and English 10 PARCC to graduate. I passed them, but still, why would tests so early on in your high school life determine that? Then they decided last year to turn the HSA science test to a MISA Test, that is required to pass to graduate, so i gotta be taking that this year. Also why would schools force so much service learning hours apon students? At my county (idk if its state wide or not) you gotta have about 75 service learning hours to graduate. I feel this is just a way to get free child labor, which is honestly wrong. I can assure you, probably most dont even do anything for free once graduated High school.
What is or was wrong with your school system when you are or were in there? Im actually curious to see what you guys thought was wrong and stuff.

My school was under funded and relied too much on testing and useless classes.
I have no options for college except community college, and idk how to be successful at life
School just felt like a waste of time

The American education system is totally borked and could really use to be fixed, not that I have any faith that it or any of the problems this country has will be fixed anytime remotely soon. But to quickly summarize what I think is wrong with the system (which, I'm not going to hit everything here) is that it places far too much emphasis on meaningless things like standardized tests/graduation rates because schools are made to be like businesses instead of preparing people for real life, how disgustingly expensive post-high school education is, and how what socioeconomic class/neighborhood you're born into determines the relative quality of your education.

On top of this, the constant encouragement for everyone to get a college/university degree (which is generally done more out of a desire to milk $$$ from people than anything else) makes everyone's degree less and less valuable and so less useful to a person the more people that have a degree there are. Which is a bit of a catch-22 as people not getting a college/university education is not exactly doing themselves and the world a favor either.

probably totally fucked up typing this but oh well

FlameChrome said:

service learning hours

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What is this exactly, I don't think that I've heard of this

Nah said:

The American education system is totally borked and could really use to be fixed, not that I have any faith that it or any of the problems this country has will be fixed anytime remotely soon. But to quickly summarize what I think is wrong with the system (which, I'm not going to hit everything here) is that it places far too much emphasis on meaningless things like standardized tests/graduation rates because schools are made to be like businesses instead of preparing people for real life, how disgustingly expensive post-high school education is, and how what socioeconomic class/neighborhood you're born into determines the relative quality of your education.

On top of this, the constant encouragement for everyone to get a college/university degree (which is generally done more out of a desire to milk $$$ from people than anything else) makes everyone's degree less and less valuable and so less useful to a person the more people that have a degree there are. Which is a bit of a catch-22 as people not getting a college/university education is not exactly doing themselves and the world a favor either.

probably totally fucked up typing this but oh well



What is this exactly, I don't think that I've heard of this

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OMG, I agree with everything you stated. High school, you dont learn much of anything you will need. Luckily at my high school, you have some classes for the major you wanna go in, to get a little taste of it at the very least. Finance class is also important, because kids these days dont know how to manage money. But most other classes, are really not needed. Classes like Government, US history, and World history can stay (even though i hate them very much, they have a deeper meaning to them). I barely learn anything though in school that i would use in the real world, or even my career I would go into. I think High school should be really all the classes you would need to get into your career you wanna go into. Because the school system is only giving you an education to work at a gas station, like come on, you get too much education in the wrong fields of study. Then you go off to college and you got a bunch of general study classes to take, that you probably will never use.

BTW service learning hours is just a fancy term for volunteer work, doing a job without the pay, etc.

The funny thing is, mandatory volunteer hours is brilliant. It's one of the few things in schools anywhere that actually prepare you for functioning in the real world once you graduate. I know a lot of people get jobs anyway, but there's a sizeable number of people who opt not to or who simply aren't allowed and this is an excellent remedy to that problem.

The biggest issue with the American school system, in a word, is money. Your schools are under funded and are dependent on test scores to access funds which creates a culture of learning to pass tests and not of actually learning skills and information. Standardised testing or any primarily summative approach to assessment are outdated methods of measuring ability and are used solely to manufacture a basis to decide which schools can afford almost up-to-date equipment and which schools are still using text books from 1953. The cruel irony of this being that it's the schools that are scoring poorly that are actually in need of increased funding. What's more, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but private educational institutes are entitled to the same rights as public schools if I'm not mistaken.

The curriculum itself is a big problem too, but this is at least a much more uniform issue globally. Personally, I believe that everyone should have a grasp on the essential maths, English and social science skills up to like the tenth grade. Beyond that I think that educational pathways need to be much more flexible so that students can pursue areas of interest that may actually lead them into a career.

Speaking of, it's a massive flaw in the system that as a general rule, you are expected to know what you want to do as a career for the rest of your life at like fifteen. You're forcefully directed into a ridiculously expensive tertiary education system which means you're pushed into spending shitloads of money on a degree that there is a very high chance you're not going to end up actually wanting to pursue.

I could probably go on and on and on. Basically the idea is pretty simple.

1. Stop running educational institutions like businesses. Socialise education so everyone has fair access to education and to the resources they need to pursue that education. At least up to the end of high school. Following that, at the very least the cost of a university education should be drastically reduced. Frankly though, education should always be free and everybody, regardless of aptitude, should have access to the same resources.

2. Make the learning curriculum realistic. I fully support the notion that you should be able to meet a functional standard of English and mathematics to graduate, that's fine. However, you shouldn't be required to take classes beyond that level if you have no interest in those fields. Mandatory classes should be essential skills - basic mathematics, basic English (or whatever the main language of your country is), Politics and Law, Basic Health education and basic life skills (think finances, mortgages) with a mandatory volunteer program. Those bases should be entirely covered by the end of the tenth grade (Sophomores for Americans I guess) at which point the curriculum should become much, much more flexible to allow for students to actually explore potential career options before they go into university.

I'm not sure how it is in other provinces, it differs slightly I think but the main thing:
- start at around 5ish in kindergarten/primary
- finish high school at about 17/18 usually, however, when I was in high school in Ontario, you had the option to stay and finish your credits, so there were some 19/20 year olds
- If you drop out or something you can go to an adult school and get a diploma that way, i think it's like $150
- in Ontario there's a math test thing and a literacy test, I think they are used for research but if you fail the literacy test you have to take the supplement class, which is a breeze really and it doesn't affect anything
- In nova scotia there's similar in high school but it's only math and is used to determine how nova scotian students are faring, I just BSed it as you don't have to pass
- In grade 9 you start getting exams at the end of each semester depending on the class, i was a lazy bitch so i took all classes that didn't have them
- i heard lunch in the states is some convoluted thing but here you either bring yours or buy it at the cafeteria, i believe some schools serve meals to kids who don't have breakfast/lunch you don't need proof
- in high school, the classes are divided for difficulty, much like in the states, but they don't count for college credit, you just choose them based on where you want to go. that said i took most of the entry level ones and got into college fine
- there is still a lot of emphasis based on tests and exams, but there's nothing like SAT or whatever
- funding is by the provinces, but its by no means good, one school i heard of had leaks
- you aren't restricted by where you live to a certain school, you can just go to whatever one you want, though if you grew up in the sticks like me theres very few options
- each province thinks their schools are the best, i am not shitting you when i moved to ontario they treated me like i was beneath them for being from the maritimes

strangerhypno said:

Snip

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So, you said some stuff I think needs to be addressed.

Firstly, speaking as someone who has actually studied this stuff, the average seven-year old is still operating in the early concrete operational phase of their development. They do not have the the cognitive ability to handle problems as complex as actual algebra by a long shot.

Secondly, while education globally needs a lot of work, I highly doubt the average fourteen year old has the maturity to handle university-style education which is quite different to the regulated environment of a school. The vast majority of the k-12 years are not wasted time and are in fact essential, although certainly educational practices could improve. It's not until around years 9-10 that we start making grave errors and I think it's potentially harmful to spread the idea that k-12 education as a whole is "mind-numbing" when a lot of it - especially k-7 is extremely, extremely important.

My school wasn't too bad, being in a good area, but the main problem that existed within my educational experience was the fights (about two or three I had heard about in High School) and the Sex Education. In Middle School, it was abstinence-only and had a speaker that if I remember correctly, had us sign a pledge saying that we would save our bodies for marriage and while I don't remember much of High School Sex Ed, besides the fact that it did not address condoms and family planning, just pregnancy and STDs. Likewise, the school had scraped the cooking courses in my Sophmore year for some STEM classes, which might've had good intentions, but the school could've done better on preparing kids for College. All in all, my school was okay, but could've done better.

TheGhostHunter said:

My school wasn't too bad, being in a good area, but the main problem that existed within my educational experience was the fights (about two or three I had heard about in High School) and the Sex Education. In Middle School, it was abstinence-only and had a speaker that if I remember correctly, had us sign a pledge saying that we would save our bodies for marriage and while I don't remember much of High School Sex Ed, besides the fact that it did not address condoms and family planning, just pregnancy and STDs. Likewise, the school had scraped the cooking courses in my Sophmore year for some STEM classes, which might've had good intentions, but the school could've done better on preparing kids for College. All in all, my school was okay, but could've done better.

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Speaking of Sex ed and stuff, in my state, they just combine it into health class and just make it a single unit. But in middle school and that unit, we get told to no have sex. Yet they keep telling us that we need to have sex to populate the world, make up your minds people XD. And the way they spoke about STDs is like if someone has an STD, dont have sex with them, never let them have sex. Like wth, its probably not even their fault for having it.

Marth said:

I'm not sure how it is in other provinces, it differs slightly I think but the main thing:
- start at around 5ish in kindergarten/primary
- finish high school at about 17/18 usually, however, when I was in high school in Ontario, you had the option to stay and finish your credits, so there were some 19/20 year olds
- If you drop out or something you can go to an adult school and get a diploma that way, i think it's like $150
- in Ontario there's a math test thing and a literacy test, I think they are used for research but if you fail the literacy test you have to take the supplement class, which is a breeze really and it doesn't affect anything
- In nova scotia there's similar in high school but it's only math and is used to determine how nova scotian students are faring, I just BSed it as you don't have to pass
- In grade 9 you start getting exams at the end of each semester depending on the class, i was a lazy bitch so i took all classes that didn't have them
- i heard lunch in the states is some convoluted thing but here you either bring yours or buy it at the cafeteria, i believe some schools serve meals to kids who don't have breakfast/lunch you don't need proof
- in high school, the classes are divided for difficulty, much like in the states, but they don't count for college credit, you just choose them based on where you want to go. that said i took most of the entry level ones and got into college fine
- there is still a lot of emphasis based on tests and exams, but there's nothing like SAT or whatever
- funding is by the provinces, but its by no means good, one school i heard of had leaks
- you aren't restricted by where you live to a certain school, you can just go to whatever one you want, though if you grew up in the sticks like me theres very few options
- each province thinks their schools are the best, i am not shitting you when i moved to ontario they treated me like i was beneath them for being from the maritimes

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Actually, in my county at the very least, some kids can get reduced or free lunch (i have free lunch) and at my county they also serve free breakfast also for every child in the buildings. So theres that. My school kind of divides by difficulty, but somehow a smart person or two gets stuck in the class and has to be with the not so smart kids. Which kind of gives a blow to them. I believe this is figured out based on final grades, grades of the class, and PARCC results also. I never taken the SAT, nor will I because thats honestly a pain. In college i gotta take the Praxis 1, and i feel that will be much easier and stuff, just my opinion.

Detroit News: Study: Mich. last in funding growth for schools

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...-last-funding-growth-k-12-schools/2656393002/

Side Note: Anybody seen #ExposeChristianSchools on Twitter? Kind of insane of how some schools in the US can get away with some of the things mentioned because religion.

TheGhostHunter said:

Side Note: Anybody seen #ExposeChristianSchools on Twitter? Kind of insane of how some schools in the US can get away with some of the things mentioned because religion.

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Could we get some more info on this?

I mean private schools has more freedom than public schools i believe, due to them not receive funding from government and stuff. I could be wrong though.

Anyways, anyone ever had a teacher that took so long to put in certain assignments? Like my teacher only took about a month, but still.

high school wasn't /horrible/ for me, as i went to an alternative private school for people with mental illnesses and other issues, so they focused more on those rather than education. they still did focus on education don't get me wrong but they put mental health as a priority first while also making sure students got the education they needed. my only complaint was the standardized tests.

heck, the whole reason i chose to go to the community college i'm at right now is because it was not required to take the SAT to get in (it's some dumb test to determine whether you get into college or not, idk what it's called everywhere else) so it was fairly easy to get into my college. i just wish that both american colleges and just the public school system didn't put so much pressure on figuring out what you want to do with your life

also i definitely agree that more and more people are being pushed to go to college now a days, i was one of them. i didnt want to be miserable at a dead end job so i chose school instead. i am not really ready for college but i still push myself to make good grades and do well in college, mostly to satisfy my family.

but anyways yeah, the american school system could really use some fixing. like putting less pressure on standardized tests and college and whatnot and i wish that they let people choose what they wanted to take while going through out the school system instead of having every one take the same classes like sheep. at least that's what it was like at all the various schools i went to. (i moved around a lot as a kid).

but yeah.. sorry, im not good with words.

gimmepie said:

Could we get some more info on this?

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Some context I should've added earlier. Pence's wife became a teacher at a Christian private academy to which he stated that Christian education should not be criticized along with the controversy of a student at the one school insulting a Native American veteran while on a trip to the March for Life.

And thus, the hashtag was born with people telling their horror stories ranging from bullying and horrible teachers to cringe-worthy history lessons.


Here's a link: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ExposeChristianSchools&src=tyah

TheGhostHunter said:

Some context I should've added earlier. Pence's wife became a teacher at a Christian private academy to which he stated that Christian education should not be criticized along with the controversy of a student at the one school insulting a Native American veteran while on a trip to the March for Life.

And thus, the hashtag was born with people telling their horror stories ranging from bullying and horrible teachers to cringe-worthy history lessons.


Here's a link: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ExposeChristianSchools&src=tyah

Click to expand...

I mean, I will say that not all Christian schools are bad. I did a practical placement for university in a Catholic primary school and it was actually amazing. Although, I'm not in the US so...

But yes, religion should not be an excuse. Ever.

I went to a Catholic school, had religious education twice a week, my headmistress was even a nun, but it never once felt like Christianity was shoved down our throats in any part of my school life really. The only shady thing I remember them doing was making us watch a pro-life video about abortion in our final year with some pretty graphic imagery. My own teacher was great though and was always fine with being challenged. I'd say England is a pretty secular country to be honest and even in a Catholic school if there was too much focus on religion in day to day life parents might very well accuse the school of 'God bothering'. Although that is my own personal experience and my friend, who went to a Catholic Sixthform in a different part of the country said in her mandatory RE lessons, her friend, who is gay, challenged a teacher about what she thought would happen to him when he died and she, a teacher, straight up said to him, a student, because of his sexuality he wasn't getting into heaven.

Something a lot of schools in the UK Sixthforms (and I assume college's as well) do that I'm not ok with is the pressuring of students to go to university. Like I was always going because I always wanted to but even I constantly felt them breathing down my neck to make sure I was applying because of their targets given to them by the government. It's really not fair on students. I have a friend that never intended on going to university, then in the end because of the school making out it would be a great opportunity he did, he completely regrets it, is now left with student debt, wasted years of his life and is now in a great job he needed no university education for and if he didn't go could have been 3 years ahead of where he currently is now. That was our school's fault and is a common occurrence around the country because of silly government targets to compete with something as shallow as international leader boards or whatever.

gimmepie said:

I mean, I will say that not all Christian schools are bad. I did a practical placement for university in a Catholic primary school and it was actually amazing. Although, I'm not in the US so...

But yes, religion should not be an excuse. Ever.

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I'm going to be honest in saying that Americans can get pretty defensive of Christianity (espically the more conservative types) and Christian-institutions. Not saying that all American Christians are terrible, but there are people who think that Christians cannot do anything wrong because of their faith, even when it causes harm to others that is more present in conservative/evangelical circles.

Schools are like everything else though, needs work. And it will be that way to everyone, since everyone does not have the same view of it as the next person, same exact view I mean.

Still though, I really do believe most things tought in my high school are not gonna be used in the real world. Only things would be Finance, and possibly US history, us government, and world history classes. Every other class is pretty much not gonna be used. Even the social studies classes i mention wont always be used, but will have a thought in the brain when electing leaders and stuff, and how to deal with other countries. Tech Ed might have a little bit, but sadly one of the projects we did was build a bridge, fun but beyond being a construction member and a developer, whos really gonna use that?

FlameChrome said:

Schools are like everything else though, needs work. And it will be that way to everyone, since everyone does not have the same view of it as the next person, same exact view I mean.

Still though, I really do believe most things tought in my high school are not gonna be used in the real world. Only things would be Finance, and possibly US history, us government, and world history classes. Every other class is pretty much not gonna be used. Even the social studies classes i mention wont always be used, but will have a thought in the brain when electing leaders and stuff, and how to deal with other countries. Tech Ed might have a little bit, but sadly one of the projects we did was build a bridge, fun but beyond being a construction member and a developer, whos really gonna use that?

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I made a similar mistake in thinking that I would need a Precalculus class in my junior year of High School, which I barely passed, even though I doubt that I would've needed it for going into journalism or psychology.