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Westminster Terror Attack (London, UK)

Hands

I was saying Boo-urns
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1300? lol. Lets try these statistics from the Red Cross in 2015.

We only have 1,300 Syrians who have been granted Asylum. Even if all of those mentioned by the Red Cross were Syrians all your link does is prove that we aren't "inviting them all in"

Where have we accepted anything as being our fault? You've stated that these attacks are retaliation for the the actions of the west. I'd partially agree there but in reality, Islam just doesn't want play nicely with the other kids.

I added context to your, as usual, crap post. I didn't claim it was justification or that we deserved it. Virtually every big terrorist attack from Muslims over the past decade has given various wars or actions in the East by the West as their motive. Please stop just making things up to suit your little fantasy. Go to /pol/ or r/the_donald if you want someone to baby you in an echo chamber.
 

Hands

I was saying Boo-urns
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Where have we accepted anything as being our fault? You've stated that these attacks are retaliation for the the actions of the west. I'd partially agree there but in reality, Islam just doesn't want play nicely with the other kids.

1300? lol. Lets try these statistics from the Red Cross in 2015.

Upon re-reading the statistics it's 4,100. I misread the numbers. It's a far cry from the 4million you seem to be pushing for though.
 
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How about we stop giving Muslims a reason to hate us? I in no way condone terrorism of any sort but the way some of you spread hate you're making it so damn easy for extremist cells like ISIS to recruit.
 
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The way you're lumping together Muslims and ISIS isn't very PC, bro.

I agree though, lets just leave them to their 12 year old wives and get on with our day. This will be the last you'll here from me on the issue.
 
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It seems ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attack today.

Honestly, countries need to ramp security to prevent these sort of things in the future.
 
25,502
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It seems ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attack today.

Honestly, countries need to ramp security to prevent these sort of things in the future.

Security is being ramped up. Quite frankly it's hard to imagine the US' security getting much stricter. The problem isn't that terrorists are sneaking in, it's that we're driving otherwise decent people already in our countries to extremism.
 
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You don't understand. We're not spreading hate; ISIS is spreading hate, and more importantly, death.

If you think the west is innocent, you've been very severely mislead. You know when Islamic extremist attacks started getting really serious? Right about the same time we started invading their countries and sticking our noses into affairs that have nothing to do with us. About the same time we decided innocent civilians in the Middle East were just collateral damage in the war to maintain control of the oil - which is exactly how this all started.

Now after doing all that, we pretend that there's no blood on our hands and that it was always the evil Muslims being the aggressors. We've decided to look at every Islamic person and treat them as potential terrorists - ignoring that they are innocent until proven guilty (and that the vast majority are just plain innocent). We encourage hate propaganda and an us and them mentality. We make them feel unwanted and antagonised regardless of where they were born or what they have/heaven't done and we do it all whilst pretending we aren't partially responsible. Which by the way, makes it even easier for extremist cells to recruit. Because we perpetuate an endless cycle of hatred and retaliation, we're only helping ISIS' numbers grow. Terrorism isn't even a new concept. Throughout history, and even in modern times, loads upon loads of different political and religious sects have used terror attacks as a political weapon. Yet we've decided to allow this ridiculous narrative that terrorism and Islam are synonymous be perpetuated, even though it ultimately costs freedoms and lives. We are far, far from innocent victims here.

If you are foolish enough to believe the hate narrative people want to spread about Islam, you're the one who is lacking in understanding. Yes, terrorism is wrong regardless of what we did in the first place. It is wrong even if we continue to spread the hate narrative and discriminate. But it's high time we got our heads out of our collective asses and stopped pretending we didn't have a hand in the current state of affairs because until we do the current status quo is going to continue unchanged and more and more innocent people - white, brown, Christian, Islamic or otherwise - are going to suffer and more and more lives will be lost. We in the west, especially the US quite frankly, have such an enormous ego to think that we aren't partially at fault for the way the world is right now. It has to change.

/end rant
 
Last edited:
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If you think the west is innocent, you've been very severely mislead. You know when Islamic extremist attacks started getting really serious? Right about the same time we started invading their countries and sticking our noses into affairs that have nothing to do with us. About the same time we decided innocent civilians in the Middle East were just collateral damage in the war to maintain control of the oil - which is exactly how this all started.

Now after doing all that, we pretend that there's no blood on our hands and that it was always the evil Muslims being the aggressors. We've decided to look at every Islamic person and treat them as potential terrorists - ignoring that they are innocent until proven guilty (and that the vast majority are just plain innocent). We encourage hate propaganda and an us and them mentality. We make them feel unwanted and antagonised regardless of where they were born or what they have/heaven't done and we do it all whilst pretending we aren't partially responsible. Which by the way, makes it even easier for extremist cells to recruit. Because we perpetuate an endless cycle of hatred and retaliation, we're only helping ISIS' numbers grow. Terrorism isn't even a new concept. Throughout history, and even in modern times, loads upon loads of different political and religious sects have used terror attacks as a political weapon. Yet we've decided to allow this ridiculous narrative that terrorism and Islam are synonymous be perpetuated, even though it ultimately costs freedoms and lives. We are far, far from innocent victims here.

If you are foolish enough to believe the hate narrative people want to spread about Islam, you're the one who is lacking in understanding. Yes, terrorism is wrong regardless of what we did in the first place. It is wrong even if we continue to spread the hate narrative and discriminate. But it's high time we got our heads out of our collective asses and stopped pretending we didn't have a hand in the current state of affairs because until we do the current status quo is going to continue unchanged and more and more innocent people - white, brown, Christian, Islamic or otherwise - are going to suffer and more and more lives will be lost. We in the west, especially the US quite frankly, have such an enormous ego to think that we aren't partially at fault for the way the world is right now. It has to change.

/end rant

This entire argument is absolutely ridiculous. You have previously stated that a) it's wrong for us to lump all Muslims in with ISIS and b) it's America's fault somehow.

So, for your argument to function properly, you must lump all Americans into the 'foreign devil' category while the terrorist groups get a free pass. So which one is it? Can you lump groups together or can't you? Selective logic isn't logic at all and defies reason.

Making excuses and vindicating murderous behaviour and is somehow the fault of the US government (i.e. a small percentage of a small percent) is akin to excusing a murderer for stabbing blonds because his mother was a bitch. People that join ISIS are already inherently flawed. It takes a special kind to drop what they're doing and join a group of known murderers that kill and punish their own for not remembering verse from the Quran. Their [ISIS] cause is not just and it's primary goal is to commit war crimes against people that have done nothing to them nor their country. There is no targeting of advanced military installations, there isn't any tactical or strategic endeavor that is to be had here, they're just murderers painting themselves with a just cause and draping themselves in 'the truth of Allah'.

Certainly, the creation of these groups changes depending on which decade we're in or which country, but the US military isn't much in the business of murdering random civilians and then justifying it by saying 'god is great'.
 
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Certainly, the creation of these groups changes depending on which decade we're in or which country, but the US military isn't much in the business of murdering random civilians and then justifying it by saying 'god is great'.

I won't bother quoting your whole post, and I'll get to your other points but I really want to start here. The US military has been responsible for plenty of civilian deaths during the wars it habitually gets involved in, regardless of if they have anything to do with said wars or not. You're right though, it's less about "God is great" and more about "America is great". Don't get me wrong, I don't blame soldiers for following orders, that's what they're trained to do. I blame the government for being there in the first place. We're getting off on a tangent a bit there though so onwards to everything else.

It is completely wrong to vilify Muslims and associate an entire religion with a minority sect of extremist terrorist. It is not wrong to hold a government responsible for its actions. Those two things are completely different. It's not a coincidence that Muslim terrorist groups started becoming more and more active/dangerous when the US started getting more and more involved in the Middle East.

I'm not employing "selective logic", I'm doing two vastly different things. I do not for a second believe that the US is for some reason populated entirely by trigger happy, nationalist invaders. There's a lot of good people in the US asking the same questions and making the same points as me. I'm saying that the minority calling the shots and controlling the military is at the least partly responsible for the repercussions of essentially invading foreign nations and making shit there worse.

I also though I made it pretty damn clear, I don't think there is any excuse for what ISIS do. I said almost word for word "it doesn't matter what the US did, it didn't matter what is their fault - terrorism is never okay." ISIS are evil, simple as that. The fact that ISIS are evil does not excuse that other countries, in particular the US, made the instability in the Middle East worse over some oil. It doesn't change the fact that by vilifying an entire religion for the actions of a small group and for encouraging that kind of mentality you make things worse. It's not hard to work out. You take a young, Islamic kid, add a government that spreads hate for Muslims, add a populace that buys into that narrative and not only perpetuates the hate more but actively discriminates. Young people are already at time of their lives where its make it or break it. By demonizing them, targeting them and making them feel victimized and alone you make it so much easier for extremist propaganda artists to snatch them up.

I'll put it simply. I don't condone what ISIS do. I don't condone that kind of injustice from anyone. They're a mob of lunatic terrorists, they are not good people. Some of them, hell a lot of them probably, didn't start out that way though. You need to take off the America-coloured glasses and acknowledge that the US isn't the solution it's a part of the problem. People like you, who seem to struggle differentiating extremism from the modern religion aren't much better.
 

Hands

I was saying Boo-urns
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Certainly, the creation of these groups changes depending on which decade we're in or which country, but the US military isn't much in the business of murdering random civilians and then justifying it by saying 'god is great'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...nsoura-human-rights-observatory-a7642781.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...stan-un-donald-trump-yemen-seal-a7581526.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...trikes-kill-100-civilians-one-building-mosul/

https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/24760.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/yemen-170129101045539.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/...-is-often-unsure-about-who-will-die.html?_r=0

Yeah, the US never go around killing civilians or anything.

As for "God is Great" (which is a beyond simplified and disingenuous analysis of the situation)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/29/us/30abortion-clinic-violence.html

Don't pretend the only people who kill others over perceived insults to their religious beliefs are Muslims. America has a messy history that most other developed nations do not in regards to Christian nuts bombing and shooting up abortion clinics.
 
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