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Guns

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Sir Codin

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No, as far as I'm concerned, its both liberals and conservatives that are the problem...or at the very least, their refusal to completely work with each other.

It's one of the biggest reasons I hold libertarian beliefs. But this is another topic entirely.
 

ShinyUmbreon189

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I agree I hate politics because they cause nothing but problems but the liberals make it to seem guns are the problems. They're all idiots (democrats and republicans) but the far left wing politicians are the most "corrupt".
 
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I'm studying political science so it'll be really interesting to see where this conversation leads.

I feel politics is for a good purpose - it's basically the organisation of power in society. By politics do you mean the way it is played out, not the end for which it is played out? I'll have to disagree on having other problems to worry about, because people say the same thing on same-sex marriage and it's not a real excuse. And how are politicians idiots?
 

Sir Codin

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As I said, that is another topic entirely. But if you want my opinion, I don't really trust anyone who claims to represent me while wearing a $3000 suit.
 

ShinyUmbreon189

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This a guns topic not politicians. But to answer you're question they're in for nothing but "money and power". They don't care about our well being they just want us to live life the way they want us to and live they're life the way they want to. They lack leadership, and a society needs a leader. Without a leader a society will fail and that's what we're doing right now.
 

Mr. X

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As I said, that is another topic entirely. But if you want my opinion, I don't really trust anyone who claims to represent me while wearing a $3000 suit.

As Joker says, I don't trust anyone who makes more then me.

This a guns topic not politicians. But to answer you're question they're in for nothing but "money and power". They don't care about our well being they just want us to live life the way they want us to and live they're life the way they want to. They lack leadership, and a society needs a leader. Without a leader a society will fail and that's what we're doing right now.

The US has a leader - His names Barrack Obama. Sadly though, Republicans have refused to work with him for the past few years. Republicans are more concerned with playing political games then they are in solving the nations problems. It was either Bohner or Mcconnel that said this, but to them opposing Obama is good politics. And as Mcconnel said in the past, Republicans #1 concern was making Obama a 1 term president. Obama has his second term, but Republicans are still running a obstructionist mindset.

Whats sad about the new gun control laws is that they will be whatever is politically best, not what is best for the country.
 
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As for cities and (hood politics). Don't tell me you wouldn't wanna own a gun in you're home for self defense. In non dangerous neighborhoods it's a what if situation if you got in that predicament but it could still happen.

I live in a big city. I live downtown, in fact, where crime is more concentrated. I have never felt the need, or the desire, to own a firearm of any sort. Heck, most of the time I don't even lock the front door.

You understand my beliefs now?

Nope.

I agree I hate politics because they cause nothing but problems but the liberals make it to seem guns are the problems. They're all idiots (democrats and republicans) but the far left wing politicians are the most "corrupt".

There is no such beast as a pure liberal or a pure conservative. We're all of us moderates to one degree or another. And I think painting people with a broad brush like you did is pretty insulting. I doubt your statement is even factually accurate. Sounds more like political prejudice. :disappoin
 
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TRIFORCE89

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Meaning if they banned guns they're breaking the law themselves, same with law enforcement. In my eyes if somethings illegalized or banned its' illegalized or banned for everyone. Law enforcement and our military needs weapons, honestly I think law enforcement needs more powerful weapons other than .9 mm pistols. If they take something from us, they're taking it from themselves, but they disagree with they're own logic and do whatever they want. It's not right to ban something like pistols from citizens and allow the govt. to own fully auto's. It makes no sense.
Huh?

Guns are not widespread where I live. The police most certainly still have arms though. O_o Why wouldn't they?

Gun control is not banning by the way. Control. Restrictions. Limitations. Still available though.

As I said, that is another topic entirely. But if you want my opinion, I don't really trust anyone who claims to represent me while wearing a $3000 suit.
Would you prefer this guy?

cletus.jpg


Suits show professionalism. :\
 
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ShinyUmbreon189

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I live in a big city. I live downtown, in fact, where crime is more concentrated. I have never felt the need, or the desire, to own a firearm of any sort. Heck, most of the time I don't even lock the front door.

Uh, just a piece of information.... In lot's of cities in America downtown is safe for the most part I can walk around downtown Chicago at 3 am with no problems. I live in West Chicago and I hear gun shots occasionally because 5 blocks down the road it's the "hood" and heavily gang affiliated. West Chicago is full of Hispanic gangs and most of them are "illegal". South Chicago is a lot more ghetto than the West side and there are countless murders, robbery's, assaults, and rapes down there. If you lived in South Chicago, you'd wanna own a gun I guarantee it. You know nothing about (hood politics) you don't know exactly what goes on in the cyfe, you just know what goes on from watching movies and the news. The only way to know about (hood politics) is to live around it yourself. I've seen a woman get raped when I was driving through South Chicago and I've seen at least 4 drive-bys in my life. Have you ever seen this in you're city? I think no. South side is like Detroit, I've been to Detroit and I noticed no difference. Just visit South Chicago for a day or so and see if you wanna get out without 2 minutes.. It's 97% African American and they kill other races.


So yes, I have a very good reasoning of owning a gun. Chicago is different than whatever city you live in in Canada and probably more gang affiliated. Chicago's safe compared to some cities but dangerous to compared to other cities. Just because one cities safe doesn't mean another ones safe. But I doubt that makes any sense to you because you seem to not understand anything I say when other are beginning to.

Actually, visit East St. Louis get out of your car and walk around, if you survive let me know how it goes. Once you do that, you'll realize the dangers of different cities. You're guaranteed to get attacked for walking through East St. Louis and the murder rate is sky high. Someone would get murdered there and cops wont even show up because it's so often and they're scared of showing up there.

You don't know ghetto, but me, I know ghetto. Because I practically live in the ghetto.
 
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I've seen a woman get raped when I was driving through South Chicago and I've seen at least 4 drive-bys in my life.

My only question is ... did you call the police or were you afraid of snitching? XD

Black humour aside, that's the very reason that you have to break these criminals. Because kids aren't going to go to school, they aren't going to get real training, and even if they do, they'll never want to make a contribution to where they used to live and buy a condo downtown instead.

We know how ghetto the inner city can be, but that's all the reason to get rid of them. Ghetto is the reason that your friend in high school who used to be a normal kid is having kids he doesn't know about, beating his girlfriend, and getting her addicted on crack.

The police have to crack down on criminals but at the same time make a good rapport with the community. It's all part of the love and hate game. Make the population love you and hate your enemies. Most people don't want to be ghetto anyways. It's just that when that is so pervasive, they forget what they really wanted in the first place.
 

ShinyUmbreon189

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Actually it's more along the lines of, "you move this much product in 2 days if you don't you're dead". 13 year olds cutting 8 balls, smoking methamphetamine, rollin with heat, raping, murdering, and robbing houses. Even little kids do this stuff, it's not just adults. That's how the ghetto is. But Jay seems to not know about ghetto just because his ghetto is the safe ghetto. There's 2 types of ghetto, his is the safer ghetto. He don't know "GHETTO" like I do.

We need to do something about the people in the ghetto but we can't. Lots of them enjoy gang banging and a majority of them love getting wasted. They like smoking blunts and drinking bottles on the block and throwing parties. That's what they do most of the time, they love guns, and they enjoy slanging dope. They're only problem is the crimes they commit, the ghetto would be decent if they didn't slang dope, have prostitutes, and wars over territory. It's just the way it is, we can't do anything to stop it, yet. Unless we do street sweeps.
 
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We need to do something about the people in the ghetto but we can't.

This has got to be the most defeatist thing I've heard from you in a long time. I think it's an unrealistic perspective to say there's nothing that can be done. China and India have probably lifted more than the entire population of the US out of poverty, yet the wealthiest nation in the world can't deal with violent crime in its neighbourhoods?

Your depiction of the ghetto becomes more ghetto every time you do it. These 13 year old kids do not compare to child soldiers. These are kids that fall into the wrong crowd, without a moral authority figure, whose parents have to think harder about getting the bills paid than raising a child. So you deal with these problems and that's doing something about the ghetto. Right? It's addressing the problem at the source. If that can't convince you of anything, than nobody can convince you by this point. I understand the problem is bad, but it's not unsolvable. Just because you see it like that every day doesn't mean it can't improved. You see, one of the reason the ghetto is so bad is because people, like you, lose hope. And when that happens, it makes anything that you try to do that much harder.
 

ShinyUmbreon189

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Children join gangs to prove they're real and there's no role models in the hood. Yea, there's probably this one family that's barely surviving and not involved in any of they're doings but the rest, are setting bad examples. The rest are drug addicts, murderes, criminals, etc. It's sad really because it's not easy to stop them, you can't just go up in the hood and arrest everyone it don't work that way. That will get you shot. As I said, if we wanted to do something about it we could do street sweeps but that's about it. If we get even 60% of gang affiliated criminals locked up the crime would drop drastically. It's just a matter of maintaining it because they always recruit new members to get stronger.
 

TRIFORCE89

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Uh, just a piece of information.... In lot's of cities in America downtown is safe for the most part I can walk around downtown Chicago at 3 am with no problems. I live in West Chicago and I hear gun shots occasionally because 5 blocks down the road it's the "hood" and heavily gang affiliated. West Chicago is full of Hispanic gangs and most of them are "illegal". South Chicago is a lot more ghetto than the West side and there are countless murders, robbery's, assaults, and rapes down there. If you lived in South Chicago, you'd wanna own a gun I guarantee it. You know nothing about (hood politics) you don't know exactly what goes on in the cyfe, you just know what goes on from watching movies and the news. The only way to know about (hood politics) is to live around it yourself. I've seen a woman get raped when I was driving through South Chicago and I've seen at least 4 drive-bys in my life. Have you ever seen this in you're city? I think no. South side is like Detroit, I've been to Detroit and I noticed no difference. Just visit South Chicago for a day or so and see if you wanna get out without 2 minutes.. It's 97% African American and they kill other races.


So yes, I have a very good reasoning of owning a gun. Chicago is different than whatever city you live in in Canada and probably more gang affiliated. Chicago's safe compared to some cities but dangerous to compared to other cities. Just because one cities safe doesn't mean another ones safe. But I doubt that makes any sense to you because you seem to not understand anything I say when other are beginning to.

Actually, visit East St. Louis get out of your car and walk around, if you survive let me know how it goes. Once you do that, you'll realize the dangers of different cities. You're guaranteed to get attacked for walking through East St. Louis and the murder rate is sky high. Someone would get murdered there and cops wont even show up because it's so often and they're scared of showing up there.

You don't know ghetto, but me, I know ghetto. Because I practically live in the ghetto.
We have a notorious intersection (and surrouning area, but its known by the intersection exclusively) for gang-related crime here in Toronto. I don't see how an increased presence of guns would be beneficial there. Thugs will kill thugs regardless. The innocents who die, die in cross-fire, die when mistaken for someone else, etc. If they have a gun how do they protect themselves from something they don't see coming?
 
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Children join gangs to prove they're real and there's no role models in the hood. Yea, there's probably this one family that's barely surviving and not involved in any of they're doings but the rest, are setting bad examples. The rest are drug addicts, murderes, criminals, etc. It's sad really because it's not easy to stop them, you can't just go up in the hood and arrest everyone it don't work that way. That will get you shot. As I said, if we wanted to do something about it we could do street sweeps but that's about it. If we get even 60% of gang affiliated criminals locked up the crime would drop drastically. It's just a matter of maintaining it because they always recruit new members to get stronger.

I see dead cops as a pretty good reason for police to get tough on crime. If you kill a cop in the hood he deserved it, but if you kill a ********** it's racism? People who actually believe that deserve to go into re-education camps. That is plain hypocrisy and the hood mentality as got to go - and that includes you as well. You're only helping organized crime to be powerful by believing and maintaining the myth that they are. You're only perpetrating a myth because it's all testimonial and all blown out of proportion.

LOL @ Jane & Finch.

Edit: I didn't know gang-banger was on the censor list :P
 

ShinyUmbreon189

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How am I helping organized crime? I never said it was okay to murder someone lol and they are capable of getting of what they want by manipulation, it's a game to them. If it was up to me I'd do a street sweep in every city, build the police force even stronger, and have swat teams in close range incase **** hits the fan. That's how you control the crime in bad neighborhoods. You don't just have a cop on the block, that's not gonna solve anything you need an army of them. They can't kill the whole police force, but we can if we wanted to get rid of a good amount of the gang bangers. Actually, I'd have squads of military around that *****.
 
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You're helping them by perpetrating this image of them as being powerful and being able to escape the influence of the law. You're not doing it intentionally, but when you describe criminals in terms of their power versus how they should be removed then that just adds to the culture of fear.

It's kind of like bullying. If people kept trust in their peers and teachers instead of being afraid to do something against bullying, they lose their power. Criminals are not separated from society, so if society rejects them, they will have a hard time doing what they do. Everybody's mind would consider them irrelevant.

If our culture saw them as a menace to society, corrupters of our youth, and a waste of our air instead of people that get away with breaking the law and people you can't stop, then I'm sure we'd be a lot more empowered to take them down. There's a war in the streets but there's also a war in our minds and both of them have to be won.
 

ShinyUmbreon189

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But if you think about it, it's like this for a reason. If the govt. really wanted to they could do something about it and stop they're crime in a matter of time but they wont. They have no interest in doing so. It's a money issues to get them off the streets, everything that happens in this world (other than what you yourself ) is happening because the govt. allows it or they believe it's needed.

They allow crime because the prison system is a business. Without laws what's the point of law enforcement? But at the same time (say if we didn't have laws) would there be more murders, rapes, robbery's, assaults, drug users, etc? I don't believe there would. There would be the same amount of murders, rapes, robbery's, etc. Only criminals and disturbed minds think it's okay to rape and murder people. Most people don't have what it takes nor wanna live in guilt the rest of they're life. But does that mean the laws shouldn't be there? No, if you murder someone or rape them you're most likely getting caught.

Gun laws, it's easy to break that law just like it's easy to smoke weed and get away with it. You have a very slim chance of getting caught with a gun illegally, but you have a larger chance getting caught with marijuana than a gun. A gun law would be pretty much impossible to enforce unless they're psychic or something and know all the people who have them.
 

TRIFORCE89

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Gun laws, it's easy to break that law just like it's easy to smoke weed and get away with it. You have a very slim chance of getting caught with a gun illegally, but you have a larger chance getting caught with marijuana than a gun. A gun law would be pretty much impossible to enforce unless they're psychic or something and know all the people who have them.
But, again, it isn't the gang types that we're concerned about nor arguing gun control would somehow curb it.
 
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They allow crime because the prison system is a business. Without laws what's the point of law enforcement? But at the same time (say if we didn't have laws) would there be more murders, rapes, robbery's, assaults, drug users, etc? I don't believe there would. There would be the same amount of murders, rapes, robbery's, etc. Only criminals and disturbed minds think it's okay to rape and murder people. Most people don't have what it takes nor wanna live in guilt the rest of they're life. But does that mean the laws shouldn't be there? No, if you murder someone or rape them you're most likely getting caught.

I don't know why you believe laws don't do anything. Wouldn't all the people in prison be out and about committing crimes?
 
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