The PokéCommunity Forums Off-Topic Discussions Deep Discussion
News Shooting in Jacksonville, Florida

Deep Discussion Have a seat at Deep Discussion for in-depth discussions, extended or serious conversations, and current events. From world news to talks on life, growing up, relationships, and issues in society, this is the place to be. Come be a knight.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #51    
Old 3 Weeks Ago (2:26 PM).
Enpatsu Shakugan Enpatsu Shakugan is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Gender: Male
Nature: Hasty
Posts: 1,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven View Post
I'm sorry but if you're against gun control at this point, after so many lives has been lost, I seriously question your sense.
How many kids need to die in schools?
People in clubs?
People just out and about?
How many before you look at this and say "it's enough"?

Guns.Are.The.Issue. You just need to look at other countries with gun control laws, this doesn't happen nearly as much as the states.

The second amendment is BS, how is carrying a deadly weapon a right? Have the amendments even been looked at since the 1800s where maybe this would have been relevant? But it's 2018 now.
This sums up my rebuttal pretty well:


You are aware that almost every mass shooting has happened in "gun free zones"... the strategy doesn't work. Criminals don't follow laws. All you do is make it harder for responsible gun owners to defend themselves.

Ever heard of a mass shooting at an NRA convention? I wonder why.
Because it's full of guns in the right hands.

Blame the people, not the equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #52    
Old 3 Weeks Ago (2:39 PM).
Nah's Avatar
Nah Nah is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven View Post
World War II wasn't won by talking it out.
The american revolution wasn't talking it out.
Many oppressive regimes fell because the citizens stood up.
Sometimes force is required to solve a problem yes.

But it also cannot solve every problem either.
__________________
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
Reply With Quote
  #53    
Old 3 Weeks Ago (7:03 PM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by MysticalNinetales.
MysticalNinetales's Avatar
MysticalNinetales MysticalNinetales is offline
Mysteriosity is Beauty
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Age: 17
Gender: Female
Nature: Sassy
Posts: 283
I fail to comprehend the apparent obsession that certain Americans have with guns and the need to "defend themselves."

Who are they defending themselves from, exactly?

Criminals? Well, criminals inhabit every country on the planet, yet America is seemingly the only nation where people so adamantly need to own a gun for protective purposes. It just intrigues me.

It is absurd, however, to view guns as the only problem. Sure, they play a huge role and I'm all for stricter policies in regards to firearms. But, that being said, it is important to understand that criminals or psychopathic individuals will try to harm others with or without the use of guns. Miscreants and those fueled by hatred and apathy are the problem. It is quite disheartening to see media outlets exclusively focus on the weapon used in a mass shooting, rather than the individual responsible for said shooting or even the innocent victims who lost their lives.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #54    
Old 3 Weeks Ago (10:00 PM).
BronzeHeart92's Avatar
BronzeHeart92 BronzeHeart92 is offline
     
    Join Date: Jun 2017
    Location: Finland
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Bold
    Posts: 165
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MysticalNinetales View Post
    I fail to comprehend the apparent obsession that certain Americans have with guns and the need to "defend themselves."

    Who are they defending themselves from, exactly?

    Criminals? Well, criminals inhabit every country on the planet, yet America is seemingly the only nation where people so adamantly need to own a gun for protective purposes. It just intrigues me.

    It is absurd, however, to view guns as the only problem. Sure, they play a huge role and I'm all for stricter policies in regards to firearms. But, that being said, it is important to understand that criminals or psychopathic individuals will try to harm others with or without the use of guns. Miscreants and those fueled by hatred and apathy are the problem. It is quite disheartening to see media outlets exclusively focus on the weapon used in a mass shooting, rather than the individual responsible for said shooting or even the innocent victims who lost their lives.
    EU sure has the right idea when all of it's members states doesn't have any gun rights in first place. If we can do just fine without guns then I'm sure America can as well. Sure, it's a big country and what not. Having sufficient coverage by the emergency services should help a lot (i. e. they must respond within 8 minutes or less for example).
    Reply With Quote
      #55    
    Old 3 Weeks Ago (12:18 AM).
    gimmepie's Avatar
    gimmepie gimmepie is offline
     
    Join Date: May 2012
    Location: Australia
    Age: 23
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Adamant
    Posts: 18,134
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
    EU sure has the right idea when all of it's members states doesn't have any gun rights in first place. If we can do just fine without guns then I'm sure America can as well. Sure, it's a big country and what not. Having sufficient coverage by the emergency services should help a lot (i. e. they must respond within 8 minutes or less for example).
    Sure, I agree. But you never actually pose solutions. Just hating the gun culture isn't enough.
    __________________
    Reply With Quote
      #56    
    Old 3 Weeks Ago (11:50 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by Altairis.
    Altairis's Avatar
    Altairis Altairis is offline
    take me ☆ take you
       
      Join Date: Jun 2012
      Location: database database
      Gender: Female
      Nature: Modest
      Posts: 5,174
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
      Employing people trained to do an actual mental health screening so there was an up-to-date test for any of the common disorders would be good, rather than just checking if they've been in a psych ward anywhere. Not just an easily-lied-to questionnaire either, I think if a professional has concerns even if all the right answers are given, then those concerns should trump all else.

      I don't even know if we do that here but maybe we should.
      I definitely think that professionals should be involved and that if people want to buy a gun they should be willing to wait until the whole process is done. It's sort of crazy how fast the whole thing is to get "cleared." I was just sort of wondering what they should be looking for, since there are several studies done that show that people with mental illnesses are actually more likely to be victims of violent acts, not perpetrators. And should they be re-tested eventually?

      Unless you mean like any mental health diagnoses = inability to buy a gun. I don't really know how I feel about this, since it seems like that's where some public figures have been heading, it seems sorta likely, even though there's a potential for huge misconceptions

      (also sorry if I come off as disagreeing for the sake of it, I am just trying to clarify my own position as well haha. I do agree there's a problem, at the very least)

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by MysticalNinetales View Post
      I fail to comprehend the apparent obsession that certain Americans have with guns and the need to "defend themselves."

      Who are they defending themselves from, exactly?

      Criminals? Well, criminals inhabit every country on the planet, yet America is seemingly the only nation where people so adamantly need to own a gun for protective purposes. It just intrigues me.

      It is absurd, however, to view guns as the only problem. Sure, they play a huge role and I'm all for stricter policies in regards to firearms. But, that being said, it is important to understand that criminals or psychopathic individuals will try to harm others with or without the use of guns. Miscreants and those fueled by hatred and apathy are the problem. It is quite disheartening to see media outlets exclusively focus on the weapon used in a mass shooting, rather than the individual responsible for said shooting or even the innocent victims who lost their lives.
      I don't really think comparing USA to the EU is fair, considering how large the USA is and it's one country. There are huge parts of America where emergency services are either 1) too slow or 2) not present. And research has shown that where police are not present, literally or in their ability to reinforce laws, then crime goes up, and not just gun crime. I'm not sure if the people you're thinking of are the people in these areas, but chances are they're the people in the cities, and you're right, they generally have the police working to protect them. But a lot of people don't have that luxury and while I agree that's a problem as well, it won't stop other crimes happening in these areas.
      __________________

      ORAS/XYBW
      Reply With Quote
        #57    
      Old 3 Weeks Ago (12:05 PM).
      gimmepie's Avatar
      gimmepie gimmepie is offline
       
      Join Date: May 2012
      Location: Australia
      Age: 23
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Adamant
      Posts: 18,134
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Altairis View Post
      I definitely think that professionals should be involved and that if people want to buy a gun they should be willing to wait until the whole process is done. It's sort of crazy how fast the whole thing is to get "cleared." I was just sort of wondering what they should be looking for, since there are several studies done that show that people with mental illnesses are actually more likely to be victims of violent acts, not perpetrators. And should they be re-tested eventually?

      Unless you mean like any mental health diagnoses = inability to buy a gun. I don't really know how I feel about this, since it seems like that's where some public figures have been heading, it seems sorta likely, even though there's a potential for huge misconceptions

      (also sorry if I come off as disagreeing for the sake of it, I am just trying to clarify my own position as well haha. I do agree there's a problem, at the very least)
      People with mental illnesses are also more likely to use a weapon on themselves. I think any way you look at it you're saving lives. I won't say where the line for able to own a gun vs not able to is because I'm not a psychologist, but I think at the least there's a lot of conditions or mental states that are dangerous to the self or others when combined with access to a firearm.

      I've got depression and a generalised anxiety disorder, I think that even though I am a logical and responsible person, it would be unsafe for me to own a gun, for example.

      I think re-testing certainly couldn't hurt but I don't think you should be given a second try if you fail to be honest.
      __________________
      Reply With Quote
        #58    
      Old 3 Weeks Ago (1:20 PM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
      ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
      ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
      VLONE coming soon
         
        Join Date: Mar 2012
        Location: Chicago
        Age: 26
        Gender: Male
        Nature: Relaxed
        Posts: 1,422
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
        I'm just concerned over the lives of Americans, that's all. How many mass shootings will it take for people to seriously take a look into their gun problem I wonder...
        It's not a gun problem! I understand your concern for American citizens but we got more to worry about than mass murderers. Even with all the mass shootings more people die in drunk driving accidents than gun violence, think about that. More people die from substance abuse than gun violence. Drug abuse deaths in 2017 was over 30 THOUSAND where gun violence is only half that. The problem is, drugs and drunk driving are both against the law. What makes you think banning guns will be any different? Besides, it's easier to shoot up a gun free zone than a place where guns are allowed. Gun free zone = slim to no chance of someone having a firearm where as if it's not a gun free zone the numbers could fluctuate. But please tell me how banning guns will stop gun violence. Elaborate, and do it in a realistic way.
        __________________
        Reply With Quote
          #59    
        Old 3 Weeks Ago (4:29 AM).
        Hands's Avatar
        Hands Hands is offline
        I was saying Boo-urns
         
        Join Date: Aug 2016
        Age: 28
        Gender: Male
        Posts: 1,676
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
        It's not a gun problem! I understand your concern for American citizens but we got more to worry about than mass murderers. Even with all the mass shootings more people die in drunk driving accidents than gun violence, think about that. More people die from substance abuse than gun violence. Drug abuse deaths in 2017 was over 30 THOUSAND where gun violence is only half that. The problem is, drugs and drunk driving are both against the law. What makes you think banning guns will be any different? Besides, it's easier to shoot up a gun free zone than a place where guns are allowed. Gun free zone = slim to no chance of someone having a firearm where as if it's not a gun free zone the numbers could fluctuate. But please tell me how banning guns will stop gun violence. Elaborate, and do it in a realistic way.
        No one has ever killed 16 kids by overdosing in a school, they're non comparable
        Reply With Quote
          #60    
        Old 3 Weeks Ago (4:38 AM).
        gimmepie's Avatar
        gimmepie gimmepie is offline
         
        Join Date: May 2012
        Location: Australia
        Age: 23
        Gender: Male
        Nature: Adamant
        Posts: 18,134
        I've never got the "guns don't kill people, people do" argument. Sure, a gun doesn't have intent of its own but it's a tool designed specifically to kill things. If you have a people killing people problem, having easy access to guns just exacerbates that problem and stricter gun control is still part of a solution.
        __________________
        Reply With Quote
          #61    
        Old 3 Weeks Ago (6:59 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
        ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
        ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
        VLONE coming soon
           
          Join Date: Mar 2012
          Location: Chicago
          Age: 26
          Gender: Male
          Nature: Relaxed
          Posts: 1,422
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Hands View Post
          No one has ever killed 16 kids by overdosing in a school, they're non comparable
          You missed the point... Drugs are illegal yet so many overdose. Something that is banned in America kills more people. The problem is some people are just evil, it's that simple. Not sure why it's so hard to grasp?

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by gimmepie
          I've never got the "guns don't kill people, people do" argument. Sure, a gun doesn't have intent of its own but it's a tool designed specifically to kill things. If you have a people killing people problem, having easy access to guns just exacerbates that problem and stricter gun control is still part of a solution.
          Chicago. Strictest gun laws highest gun violence in the country. Nice try, but that arguments been debunked. Before you say they got their firearm from another state with lax gun laws I suggest doing more research on gun laws in America. In Illinois (especially Chicago) if your gun isn't registered and you don't have a FOID card you're going to jail and getting slapped with a felony if caught.
          __________________
          Reply With Quote
            #62    
          Old 3 Weeks Ago (7:21 AM).
          gimmepie's Avatar
          gimmepie gimmepie is offline
           
          Join Date: May 2012
          Location: Australia
          Age: 23
          Gender: Male
          Nature: Adamant
          Posts: 18,134
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
          You missed the point... Drugs are illegal yet so many overdose. Something that is banned in America kills more people. The problem is some people are just evil, it's that simple. Not sure why it's so hard to grasp?



          Chicago. Strictest gun laws highest gun violence in the country. Nice try, but that arguments been debunked. Before you say they got their firearm from another state with lax gun laws I suggest doing more research on gun laws in America. In Illinois (especially Chicago) if your gun isn't registered and you don't have a FOID card you're going to jail and getting slapped with a felony if caught.
          That doesn't change the fact that the majority of the guns in Chicago are bought in a state with softer gun laws than Chicago has.

          Chicago is also not the most violent city in America, that title goes to Anchorage in Alaska which has the laxest gun laws in the country.
          __________________
          Reply With Quote
            #63    
          Old 3 Weeks Ago (8:34 AM).
          ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
          ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
          VLONE coming soon
             
            Join Date: Mar 2012
            Location: Chicago
            Age: 26
            Gender: Male
            Nature: Relaxed
            Posts: 1,422
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
            That doesn't change the fact that the majority of the guns in Chicago are bought in a state with softer gun laws than Chicago has.

            Chicago is also not the most violent city in America, that title goes to Anchorage in Alaska which has the laxest gun laws in the country.
            Most the illegal guns in Chicago are owned by gangs. They get these guns through criminal organizations which got them illegally as well. Ever heard of the Dark Web? Yeah, anyone and everyone that is knowledgeable enough to not get traced can get a firearm from there. 3D printers?

            Alaska can EASILY be explained.

            1. Isolation from everyone else.
            2. Lack of sunlight messes with ones mental state
            3. High level of drug and alcohol abuse.
            4. Little to no jobs.
            5. Felons can carry guns, where as in Texas they can't.
            6. Their judicial system is a complete joke.
            7. Dangerous environments which leads to crime for survival.

            Do I gotta keep going?
            __________________
            Reply With Quote
              #64    
            Old 3 Weeks Ago (9:12 AM).
            Hands's Avatar
            Hands Hands is offline
            I was saying Boo-urns
             
            Join Date: Aug 2016
            Age: 28
            Gender: Male
            Posts: 1,676
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
            Most the illegal guns in Chicago are owned by gangs. They get these guns through criminal organizations which got them illegally as well. Ever heard of the Dark Web? Yeah, anyone and everyone that is knowledgeable enough to not get traced can get a firearm from there. 3D printers?

            Alaska can EASILY be explained.

            1. Isolation from everyone else.
            2. Lack of sunlight messes with ones mental state
            3. High level of drug and alcohol abuse.
            4. Little to no jobs.
            5. Felons can carry guns, where as in Texas they can't.
            6. Their judicial system is a complete joke.
            7. Dangerous environments which leads to crime for survival.

            Do I gotta keep going?
            Good luck firing a 3D printed gun and not having it explode in your face. You can 3D print a lower for an AR, not an upper, or the fire control mechanism, or the trigger, or the bolt, or the barrel, or the carrier, or the firing pin etc.

            We have both the dark web and criminals in Britain, we have relatively low gun crime thanks to our laws. Most firearms here are legally owned and well registered. Your argument is essentially scuppered by the situation in mine where we limited firearm access to those who could prove they could be responsible and saw a massive decline in gun crime as a result.
            Reply With Quote
              #65    
            Old 3 Weeks Ago (9:23 AM).
            Vragon2.0's Avatar
            Vragon2.0 Vragon2.0 is offline
            Say it with me (Vray-gun)
               
              Join Date: Mar 2018
              Gender: Male
              Posts: 177
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
              Chicago. Strictest gun laws highest gun violence in the country. Nice try, but that arguments been debunked. Before you say they got their firearm from another state with lax gun laws I suggest doing more research on gun laws in America. In Illinois (especially Chicago) if your gun isn't registered and you don't have a FOID card you're going to jail and getting slapped with a felony if caught.
              Jumping in for a second to say Shiny, that you're kinda not really addressing Gimmie's point.

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Gimmiepie View Post
              I've never got the "guns don't kill people, people do" argument. Sure, a gun doesn't have intent of its own but it's a tool designed specifically to kill things. If you have a people killing people problem, having easy access to guns just exacerbates that problem and stricter gun control is still part of a solution.
              He's talking about the access to a weapon designed for killing, aka (puns) the whole "designed" around that. The argument he's making is, "Why say that the tool isn't a thing in this, when it is specifically designed for killing and is being shown to be used to kill currently."

              That's his argument.

              Now, I'd reply with,
              It's original design is for killing yes, but for a security fashion. You can argue that "it's designed that way", which...kinda is the point. It's to deal with threats. Guns were originated as the next level up from swords and enable a not as powerful person to defend self against an attacker. Now the effectiveness you can debate, however I'd argue that the person should be able to defend themselves and gun's use being abused by people doesn't negate that argument. Realistically there are 2 ways of looking at this.

              1: having the defense be in your hands
              2: having the defense being in a governing factor

              Now, these both can exist, like someone armed going into a security place with clearance and all.
              The issue I'm having with a lot of gun arguments currently is that they aren't addressing that these shootings are an "abuse" of the tool's function. Guns were a defense weapon. Being used in offense for the sake of stealing or whatever criminal act is an "abuse" of the product. This applies to other things like computers. They can be abused and used to commit crime. Should people not be allowed on it?

              Now I know what you're thinking. Guns kill, computer's don't. I'd then raise the point that even with their purposes different, it still applies. You can ruin a person's life by digging up their information and stealing everything from them, like you can shoot someone's life or permanent injury. The simple thing is that, any tool can be used for some harm purposes, and guns being a mechanism of defense that potentially can kill doesn't make it an exception to the rule.

              It's why I'm saying we need to help the mental health and responsibility of citizens of America and work on that front instead of going into a debate like this...that I honestly think won't solve the problem.

              Just my two cents
              __________________

              “I’ve been to places I wouldn’t have visited before. I get to see different things, which is important. It gives me new experiences to draw from.” ~Hidetaka Miyazaki [creator of Bloodborne]
              Reply With Quote
                #66    
              Old 3 Weeks Ago (9:26 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by gimmepie.
              gimmepie's Avatar
              gimmepie gimmepie is offline
               
              Join Date: May 2012
              Location: Australia
              Age: 23
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Adamant
              Posts: 18,134
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
              Most the illegal guns in Chicago are owned by gangs. They get these guns through criminal organizations which got them illegally as well. Ever heard of the Dark Web? Yeah, anyone and everyone that is knowledgeable enough to not get traced can get a firearm from there. 3D printers?

              Alaska can EASILY be explained.

              1. Isolation from everyone else.
              2. Lack of sunlight messes with ones mental state
              3. High level of drug and alcohol abuse.
              4. Little to no jobs.
              5. Felons can carry guns, where as in Texas they can't.
              6. Their judicial system is a complete joke.
              7. Dangerous environments which leads to crime for survival.

              Do I gotta keep going?
              Yes, I'm sure not even needing a permit to obtain a firearm has nothing to do with disproportionate number of people that are killed by guns.

              Just like how per capita, St. Louis has more murders than Chicago. The laxer gun laws there have nothing to do with that.

              I'm also sure that 60% of the guns used in gang crime in Chicago coming from neighbouring states with far laxer gun laws has absolutely no meaning. That couldn't possibly be related to how the majority of the guns in Chicago were bought outside of Illinois. The average gang banger (or regular Joe that just happens to snap) does not know how to navigate the dark/deep web or have the financial resources to get their hands on a 3D printer (which if, I have been correctly informed, cannot as easily produce a functioning, reliable firearm as believed).

              I'm sure that the spike in Chicago's gun violence also has nothing to do with the changes to its law in 2013. When they both abolished the gun registry and passed a concealed carry law.

              Edit: Felons being allowed to carry guns is a problem with gun control laws btw.
              __________________
              Reply With Quote
                #67    
              Old 3 Weeks Ago (9:58 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
              ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
              ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
              VLONE coming soon
                 
                Join Date: Mar 2012
                Location: Chicago
                Age: 26
                Gender: Male
                Nature: Relaxed
                Posts: 1,422
                Quote:
                Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
                Edit: Felons being allowed to carry guns is a problem with gun control laws btw.
                Felons can what?
                Yeah, you know nothing about America's gun laws. Obviously. There's no need to even post a link cause I'm rolling with this comment.

                Noticed I also debunked your Alaska argument as well.

                And what I meant by criminal organizations is they do gun trades through gangs in different cities. If you're a convicted felon, (which most are) you can't just go to the next state and purchase a firearm.
                __________________
                Reply With Quote
                  #68    
                Old 3 Weeks Ago (10:08 AM).
                Vragon2.0's Avatar
                Vragon2.0 Vragon2.0 is offline
                Say it with me (Vray-gun)
                   
                  Join Date: Mar 2018
                  Gender: Male
                  Posts: 177
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
                  Noticed I also debunked your Alaska argument as well.
                  Care to share?
                  __________________

                  “I’ve been to places I wouldn’t have visited before. I get to see different things, which is important. It gives me new experiences to draw from.” ~Hidetaka Miyazaki [creator of Bloodborne]
                  Reply With Quote
                    #69    
                  Old 3 Weeks Ago (10:15 AM).
                  ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
                  ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
                  VLONE coming soon
                     
                    Join Date: Mar 2012
                    Location: Chicago
                    Age: 26
                    Gender: Male
                    Nature: Relaxed
                    Posts: 1,422
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Vragon2.0 View Post
                    Care to share?
                    Already did
                    __________________
                    Reply With Quote
                      #70    
                    Old 3 Weeks Ago (10:45 AM).
                    Hands's Avatar
                    Hands Hands is offline
                    I was saying Boo-urns
                     
                    Join Date: Aug 2016
                    Age: 28
                    Gender: Male
                    Posts: 1,676
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
                    If you're a convicted felon, (which most are) you can't just go to the next state and purchase a firearm.
                    Yes you can.
                    Reply With Quote
                      #71    
                    Old 3 Weeks Ago (11:09 AM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by gimmepie.
                    gimmepie's Avatar
                    gimmepie gimmepie is offline
                     
                    Join Date: May 2012
                    Location: Australia
                    Age: 23
                    Gender: Male
                    Nature: Adamant
                    Posts: 18,134
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
                    Felons can what? Yeah, you know nothing about America's gun laws. Obviously. There's no need to even post a link cause I'm rolling with this comment.
                    Felons can carry guns in Alaska. You know, that thing you mentioned.
                    That is a gun control problem. A gun control problem that you just attributed to Alaskan gun death levels.

                    Quote:
                    Noticed I also debunked your Alaska argument as well.
                    You did nothing of the sort. You did provide a great list of reasons why making it harder to get a gun there would be a good idea though.

                    Quote:
                    And what I meant by criminal organizations is they do gun trades through gangs in different cities.
                    If that's what you meant why did you use obviously false arguments about the deep web and 3D printers as your go-to?
                    Imagine if all the cities had tighter restrictions and the gangs in every city had the same trouble getting a gun in their own as the ones in Chicago clearly do... except all the cities had the same tight restrictions so hopping along to the next state to get a gun much easier wasn't an option like it is for people in Chicago.

                    Quote:
                    If you're a convicted felon, (which most are)
                    References please.

                    Quote:
                    you can't just go to the next state and purchase a firearm.
                    I guess all those articles, some that have already been linked to here, must be wrong then. Somehow you, who have done no research (hence the inability to provide sources you casually tried to gloss over) and, to the best of my knowledge, no expertise in any related fields, are right when all of the evidence and common sense both suggest otherwise.
                    __________________
                    Reply With Quote
                      #72    
                    Old 3 Weeks Ago (11:50 AM).
                    Nah's Avatar
                    Nah Nah is offline
                     
                    Join Date: Nov 2013
                    Age: 26
                    Gender: Female
                    Posts: 12,669
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
                    Chicago is also not the most violent city in America, that title goes to Anchorage in Alaska which has the laxest gun laws in the country.
                    Define "most violent city in America". The state that is basically frozen nowheresville is not the one I would have expected to get the title of most violent.

                    also define per capita for me, I never understood what that term means

                    Regarding felons buying guns, as far as I can tell Alaska itself does not have any laws explicitly barring convicted felons from buying or owning a gun, but there's a federal law that does indeed ban convicted felons from owning a gun.
                    __________________
                    Nah ンン
                    “No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
                    Reply With Quote
                      #73    
                    Old 3 Weeks Ago (12:15 PM). Edited 3 Weeks Ago by gimmepie.
                    gimmepie's Avatar
                    gimmepie gimmepie is offline
                     
                    Join Date: May 2012
                    Location: Australia
                    Age: 23
                    Gender: Male
                    Nature: Adamant
                    Posts: 18,134
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Nah View Post
                    Define "most violent city in America". The state that is basically frozen nowheresville is not the one I would have expected to get the title of most violent.
                    Honestly, it's a bit hard to define, since there's a lot of different forms violence can take. In this instance though, I'm talking specifically about gun related deaths which Alaska has a disproportionately large numbers of. Alaska routinely ranks number one for the most gun deaths in the US. Obviously suicides are a big part of gun deaths total, but there's also a mukload of shootings. these statistics include in 2016, the year that Chicago's gun violence famously spiked in.

                    https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Once-again-Alaska-ranks-first-in-US-for-gun-death-rates-469962083.html
                    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/13/24-7-wall-st-states-most-gun-violence/71003050/

                    There's other sources that say the same as well but two is probably enough.

                    The other contender for number one is Missouri, largely thanks to St. Loius, where 660 out of every 100k people are victims of gun crimes, as opposed to the 19/100k of Chicago.

                    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/10/17/does-a-city-with-the-toughest-gun-laws-end-up-with-worst-gun-violence/?utm_term=.49d26d59f3d0


                    Quote:
                    also define per capita for me, I never understood what that term means
                    Per a unit of population. Basically in this context it means if you take x number of people from y city, z amount of people in that number will be a victim of gun violence.

                    Quote:
                    Regarding felons buying guns, as far as I can tell Alaska itself does not have any laws explicitly barring convicted felons from buying or owning a gun, but there's a federal law that does indeed ban convicted felons from owning a gun.
                    I'm not totally sure on the intricacies of this one. All I know is that there are no restrictions at all on gun ownership in Alaska, felon or otherwise. I'm not sure about the interplay with federal law there because state vs federal is murky as all hell over there.
                    __________________
                    Reply With Quote
                      #74    
                    Old 3 Weeks Ago (1:10 PM).
                    ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
                    ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
                    VLONE coming soon
                       
                      Join Date: Mar 2012
                      Location: Chicago
                      Age: 26
                      Gender: Male
                      Nature: Relaxed
                      Posts: 1,422
                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
                      Felons can carry guns in Alaska. You know, that thing you mentioned.
                      That is a gun control problem. A gun control problem that you just attributed to Alaskan gun death levels.
                      Compared to Chicago the murders from firearms is slim to none. This happens all the time in Chicago but nobody ever hears about it, maybe because it's black on black crime?

                      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/08/06/chicago-violence-leaves-71-shot-11-dead-weekend/914141002/

                      https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/chicago-homicides-down-in-2017-but-total-still-above/2018/01/01/d9fad2c2-def0-11e7-bbd0-9dfb2e37492a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.57b78ec89e85

                      Please explain to me again how Alaska is the most violent state. This is a city with strictest gun laws in the country!


                      Quote:
                      If that's what you meant why did you use obviously false arguments about the deep web and 3D printers as your go-to?
                      Imagine if all the cities had tighter restrictions and the gangs in every city had the same trouble getting a gun in their own as the ones in Chicago clearly do... except all the cities had the same tight restrictions so hopping along to the next state to get a gun much easier wasn't an option like it is for people in Chicago.
                      You obviously don't seem to grasp many gang leaders have connects to the black market. This is how they obtain their firearms so no it won't do good. Or lots are stolen. A majority of gang members cannot obtain guns legally due to known gang affiliation or criminal history.

                      And again, gangs are the cause of most of the crime in America. Tho it's an older link it's still relevant today.

                      https://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/FedCrimes/story?id=6773423&page=1

                      link stating the crime and stolen firearms in gangs

                      https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/dozens-felons-and-gang-members-convicted-joint-federal-state-and-local-investigation



                      References please.

                      Didn't come across any links stating the percentage of gang members with felonies but reading the above should answer it for you.

                      Quote:
                      I guess all those articles, some that have already been linked to here, must be wrong then. Somehow you, who have done no research (hence the inability to provide sources you casually tried to gloss over) and, to the best of my knowledge, no expertise in any related fields, are right when all of the evidence and common sense both suggest otherwise.
                      Maybe it's because people outside of the country I live in know little to nothing about what actually goes on in my country and our cultures but act like they do? Ever think of that??
                      __________________
                      Reply With Quote
                        #75    
                      Old 3 Weeks Ago (1:42 PM).
                      gimmepie's Avatar
                      gimmepie gimmepie is offline
                       
                      Join Date: May 2012
                      Location: Australia
                      Age: 23
                      Gender: Male
                      Nature: Adamant
                      Posts: 18,134
                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
                      I can't get access to the second article, but from what that link tells me, it's not going to disprove anything I've said. The first one certainly doesn't.

                      Quote:
                      Please explain to me again how Alaska is the most violent state. This is a city with strictest gun laws in the country!
                      Because statistically it has more gun violence per capita? Also Chicago doesn't have the strictest gun laws at all, despite how frequently certain politicians and their friends in the "media" like to pretend that's the case. Also worth noting that article supports a lot of the other things i've said too.




                      Quote:
                      You obviously don't seem to grasp many gang leaders have connects to the black market. This is how they obtain their firearms so no it won't do good. Or lots are stolen. A majority of gang members cannot obtain guns legally due to known gang affiliation or criminal history.
                      You obviously don't seem to grasp that 60% of the guns used in Chicago gang shootings were obtained in cities outside of Illinois. It doesn't matter what windy path they take into Chicago, the point is that it's too hard to get guns in Chicago so the gangs you like to keep bringing up have to go to places where guns are more easily obtained. Even if they don't buy them legally, the guns are still originating from a legal source that can only filter down so easily to the illegal buyers because they get into circulation so easily to begin with.

                      You also seem to not understand how the black market works. The majority of gangs are not enormous organised crime syndicates like the big cartels with loads of cash. Most street gangs, like the ones in Chicago, are composed pretty much entirely of people in a low socio-economic bracket who, even allowing for criminal activity, most of them do not have the money to really have access to the black market. The thing about the black market, is that it's very, very expensive. That's why cartels are so rich, because it's impossible to get drugs legally they can charge whatever they want. Black market guns are expensive, I've shown you links explaining his multiple times in the past.

                      Quote:
                      And again, gangs are the cause of most of the crime in America. Tho it's an older link it's still relevant today.

                      https://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/FedCrimes/story?id=6773423&page=1
                      It doesn't matter if gangs are responsible for 100% of the crime, that doesn't disprove that reducing access to guns would reduce gun crime. It proves that gangs like to use guns.

                      and yet 60% of the guns they're getting their hands on come from outside Chicago. Almost like it's hard to steal a gun or otherwise illegally obtain them when there's less around. I will remind you, gangs aren't manufacturing guns. All those illegal guns are being made and sold legally to begin with. If less guns were being made and sold, less would find their way onto the black market.

                      Also there's a well-known trend, I've given you links about it before as well, of gang members or affiliates who do not have criminal records buying a weapon, giving or selling them to fellows with records and then reporting them stolen. So even if that statistic of yours actually disproved me in any way, that would have distorted its numbers.

                      Quote:
                      Didn't come across any links stating the percentage of gang members with felonies but reading the above should answer it for you.
                      Strangely enough, being articles on totally different topics, they don't.



                      Quote:
                      Maybe it's because people outside of the country I live in know little to nothing about what actually goes on in my country and our cultures but act like they do? Ever think of that??
                      This doesn't actually answer my point at all, but since you bring it up I guess I'll point out that living outside the US doesn't have any impact on my access to information about it. I clearly know a lot more than you're trying to give me credit for, because I can do research, and quite frankly the argument that not living in the US somehow invalidates anything I've said is the weakest in a series of very weak arguments.

                      By that logic, palaeontologists don't know about dinosaurs because they weren't alive in the cretaceous, physicists don't know anything about particles because they've never been sub-atomic and astronomers don't know anything about space because they've never been there. It's logic tat doesn't hold up.
                      __________________
                      Reply With Quote
                      Reply

                      Quick Reply

                      Join the conversation!

                      Create an account to post a reply in this thread, participate in other discussions, and more!

                      Create a PokéCommunity Account
                      Thread Tools

                      Posting Rules
                      You may not post new threads
                      You may not post replies
                      You may not post attachments
                      You may not edit your posts

                      BB code is On
                      Smilies are On
                      [IMG] code is On
                      HTML code is Off
                      Minimum Characters Per Post: 25

                      Forum Jump


                      All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:53 AM.