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View Poll Results: Should Ash have won the Kalos league?
Yes 4 44.44%
No 5 55.56%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1    
Old 1 Week Ago (5:28 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Sloxy.
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Sloxy Sloxy is offline
     
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    I'd like to hear some peoples opinion on the topic. We all know loads of people were extremely salty that ash didnt win with his Ash-Greninja, and that Alain won. Even with that giant shuriken towards the end, and greninja being a water type and charizard being fire type. But did Ash actually deserve to win?

    My own opinion, is that at that point and region he had the most potential. Kalos was where he had the highest winning chance, even proven by the fact he made it to the finals. Although to me, no. He really didn't deserve to win, even with Ash-Greninja. I get that's it's a special bond and all, but Alains charizard defeated 10 mega evolved pokemon in a row.

    I'm just thankful they didn't pull off some Tobias bullsh*t with that league.
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      #2    
    Old 1 Week Ago (5:41 PM).
    CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is offline
       
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      I’m on the fence regarding this. While I do agree with you that Alain has defeated far more powerful trainers than Ash has, the reasoning behind giving the win to Alain was so that they could continue using Ash as the main protagonist. Apparently they have this twisted belief that if Ash was to win something as significant as the Kalos League(Orange Islands is peanuts in comparison imo) that they’d have to retire Ash as the Protagonist.

      So while Alain rightfully deserves it, those salty over its outcome point to what I cited above as why Alain won. That’s despite a fully evolved team(excluding Pikachu and includes two Dragon types(a first for Ash)), and being as clever as his old Sinnoh self when it came to battle strategy. Add the unique Mega Evolution element with Greninja and everyone thought Ash was finally, and I mean finally(it’s been 19 years) going to win a League Tournament.
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        #3    
      Old 1 Week Ago (10:07 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Palamon.
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      While I want to say yes, he should have, recently I rewatched the Kalos League episodes and see why he didn't win the Kalos League. I can see why the anime fanbase was pissed off about Ash's lost.... However, Alain having beaten ten mega evolved Pokemon definitely did give him the advantage. So, from that perspective, no, he shouldn't have won the Kalos League.

      Ash-Greninja was great, but when it comes down to it, Ash definitely overused this power a bit.
      I really am glad they didn't do what they did with all his other Pokemon League losses (*cough tobias* cough), though.

      If he did win, I don't think they'd retire Ash, I'm sure he'd lose the Champion League and that'd still have given him the excuse to keep travelling, you know.
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        #4    
      Old 1 Week Ago (1:24 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by weedle_mchairybug.
      weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
         
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        Ash losing by itself isn't too much of an issue, since he at least managed to get a higher rank than before (and overall redeemed himself for Unova, where he if anything did worse than in Sinnoh going by overall ranking, and arguably did even worse than Hoenn, which I consider among his worst turnouts due to him literally staying the same rank as before.).

        Unfortunately, it was more HOW they went about it that's the problem: Let's look back to when the Kalos League happened and what we knew then: Aside from them heavily implying in various episodes that Ash actually would win for a change, one of which literally was mentioned in the episode title, and our getting to the league a bit earlier than before, we must also remember that we had also gotten news that Generation VII, specifically Sun and Moon as well as the region of Alola, had just announced there won't be any Gym Battles, and also left it very ambiguous as to whether there was even going to be a Pokémon League in Gen VII at all. Considering the situation that was revealed with Generation VII, we had every reason to think Ash was this time going to win, at least regarding the main league (technically, he'd still need to face the Elite 4 and Champion before he can truly accomplish his goal per what DP itself said, so even if he DOES win against Alaine, he'd still need to fight at least one Elite 4 member, maybe also the Champion if he get's extremely lucky before we can safely say he can be removed). I mean, why would they continue using Ash when the next region isn't even going to have gym battles due to Trials? And hey, since the league's happening right now, and since you're already hinting he's going to win anyway, might as well give it to him. Better to retire him now than leave him completely useless in the next region. But no, they insisted on sticking to the formula even when it made absolutely no sense, something which resulted in even the Japanese fanbase calling them out on it big time based on the Twitter posts made during that time.

        I could have forgiven all of that if they at LEAST had set up the Sun and Moon saga by having the Pokémon League head decide to have Ash, both due to his runner up status and his role in saving Kalos, head over to Alola to help set up a Pokémon League, which would have also developed Ash's character for the better and even given him another way to do his goal beyond Gyms if necessary, but they didn't even do that, they instead stuck him in a school environment, even implied in CoroCoro that he's no longer even pursuing his goal of Pokémon Master (in fact, it wasn't until the Kanto Reunion arc that we got any hints that we'd see any continuation of Ash's goal via a league). I'm sorry, but why would you keep Ash on when he's literally going to be rendered completely useless and unable to do his goal in the current arc? At least by removing Ash by winning the league, he'll have actually accomplished his goal.

        Sinnoh was a mess near the end, including the Tobias thing which only came about because the writers evidently procrastinated before Generation V (and ironically enough had a similar situation occur where, despite their heavily implying that Ash was not going to even be in the new series, Best Wishes, they had Ash lose Sinnoh anyways despite similar foreshadowing), but at least there, they still made clear that there were still gyms, so Ash, while badly handled, was at least still actually USEFUL in Best Wishes, something that clearly isn't the case here. Maybe if it weren't for all those factors, especially those relating to the then-upcoming Sun and Moon, we could forgive the loss.
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          #5    
        Old 1 Week Ago (3:52 PM).
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          What I don't understand is why the creators / directors can't just make Ash win a league, winning a league doesn't make you a "Pokemon Master", they could legit just make him win the league, and then lose further on against the elite four or the champion. After going through so many regions and having so much experience, he should at least by now, be winning leagues, and facing the elite four and the champion.

          I mean Tobias had from what we know two legendaries and potentially even more, but still couldn't beat the sinnoh league champion, Cynthia. Winning the league, imo, doesn't make you a pokemon master. You just beat other strong trainers. You beat strong, but not the strongest.
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            #6    
          Old 1 Week Ago (4:28 PM).
          weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
             
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Sloxy View Post
            What I don't understand is why the creators / directors can't just make Ash win a league, winning a league doesn't make you a "Pokemon Master", they could legit just make him win the league, and then lose further on against the elite four or the champion. After going through so many regions and having so much experience, he should at least by now, be winning leagues, and facing the elite four and the champion.

            I mean Tobias had from what we know two legendaries and potentially even more, but still couldn't beat the sinnoh league champion, Cynthia. Winning the league, imo, doesn't make you a pokemon master. You just beat other strong trainers. You beat strong, but not the strongest.
            Heck, that's literally what one of the Elite 4 members of Sinnoh stated in DP (it's the Psychic type Elite 4 with the purple hair), so even the writers can't use that as an excuse when they literally had the characters state that, should Ash win the league, he'd need to fight in the Champion League and square off against the Elite 4 and Champion. As if that's not enough, both Ash and Cynthia made it clear that it was at the very least on the right path to becoming a Pokémon Master, if not actually gets you there absolutely (though that largely depends on whether you're going by the original or dub version. The Japanese version merely states that it gets you on the right direction, while the dub makes it seem as though beating the Regional Champion will have you earn the title instantaneously.). And quite frankly, the mere fact that Ash WON the Orange League (which IS a Pokémon League regardless of whether it came from the games or not. After all, technically, the Silver Conference isn't from the games either [since you actually have to travel to the Indigo Plateau to face the league], yet last I checked, that didn't stop Ash from losing that league) is more than enough proof that winning the league is not going to be the end of Ash's journey (heck, technically, Ash already BECAME a Pokémon Master by beating the Frontier Brains due to Scott making it very clear that they were at least as strong as if not even stronger than the regional Elite 4).

            Even under the premise of trying to advertise the new games and keeping Ash as marketing, that still didn't really justify having Ash lose the Kalos League, especially considering that unlike past regions where Ash at least had Gyms in the next region to look forward to for the sake of his goal, Alola and Generation VII doesn't even HAVE Gyms (not counting Pokémon Let's Go, since that's a remake of Pokémon Yellow, set in Kanto.), so he's practically a sitting duck.
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              #7    
            Old 6 Days Ago (3:36 PM). Edited 6 Days Ago by Sloxy.
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              Exactly. Just do it, as you said Ash already has accomplishments that might make him a pokemon master, but look, he's still travelling the world isn't he?

              Also with Alola, I heard there is going to be a league apparently. And I hope to god Ash loses that for sure. It would feel so unrewarding for him to win that league, coming from Kalos. I just hope in the next series he gets back his awesome looking self again, and stay mature. And imo, Serena, cuz im an amourshipper.

              With the let's go game, don't even get me started on that. I get that it's a spin off and not a part of the main games, but wtf is that. Catching pokemon and then ENTIRE party gets exp. Ok, I guess the games weren't easy enough already, then they make this baby sh*t. What is the point? It's pokemon go, but you are forced into one location, Kanto. I don't see it suceeding.
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                #8    
              Old 6 Days Ago (3:33 AM).
              weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
                 
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Sloxy View Post
                Exactly. Just do it, as you said Ash already has accomplishments that might make him a pokemon master, but look, he's still travelling the world isn't he?

                Also with Alola, I heard there is going to be a league apparently. And I hope to god Ash loses that for sure. It would feel so unrewarding for him to win that league, coming from Kalos. I just hope in the next series he gets back his awesome looking self again, and stay mature. And imo, Serena, cuz im an amourshipper.

                With the let's go game, don't even get me started on that. I get that it's a spin off and not a part of the main games, but wtf is that. Catching pokemon and then ENTIRE party gets exp. Ok, I guess the games weren't easy enough already, then they make this baby sh*t. What is the point? It's pokemon go, but you are forced into one location, Kanto. I don't see it suceeding.
                Yeah, that professor considered making the league after seeing Brock and Misty in battle (especially the latter since she fought Ash). Personally, I'm irritated that it took them THIS long to even confirm the league was happening, or even hint at it for that matter (usually, they either confirm right at the start that Ash is going to challenge the regional league within the first episodes of a region, or wait a couple of episodes [like how Ash decided to join the Pokémon League in Episode 5, though to be fair, he may have already had the idea of challenging it anyway in Episode 1 since his first scene had him getting ready while he was watching a league match on TV]. This took about 43 episodes to even hint at, let alone confirm, that Ash will be in the league.), especially when CoroCoro's coverage of Sun and Moon back when it was first announced if anything implied strongly that Ash is pretty much going to GIVE UP his Pokémon Master goal in favor of "graduating like never before."

                As far as him winning Alola, eh, I'd beg to differ: Considering just how desperate I am to see Ash even WIN a league at this point, I'm even willing to accept him winning Alola even if it comes across as otherwise unrewarding if it at LEAST means that Ash is allowed to actually win a league for once (besides, having Ash lose in Alola when it's literally starting a league would probably be even worse and more humiliating than with Kalos precisely BECAUSE it's the first league ever for the region. And since he's literally runner up in Kalos, there's literally no other option but to have him win the league. I might have been willing to settle for a rank increase in past regions when those would have at least indicated his strength level without necessarily winning, but not anymore, not when literally the only way to advance at this point IS to win. I didn't like it when Unova had Ash decrease in rank, and I also didn't like it when Hoenn had Ash literally stay at the same rank as in Johto.).

                As far as Pokémon Let's Go, as long as they use that to bring Misty and Brock to Alola soon like we were promised back in When Regions Collide! and thus actually ALLOW Misty to resume her Water Pokémon Master dream rather than be forced back into the gym yet again, I won't mind it ONE bit (even if it DOES come across as too easy in terms of gameplay).
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                  #9    
                Old 5 Days Ago (4:58 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                  Yeah, that professor considered making the league after seeing Brock and Misty in battle (especially the latter since she fought Ash). Personally, I'm irritated that it took them THIS long to even confirm the league was happening, or even hint at it for that matter (usually, they either confirm right at the start that Ash is going to challenge the regional league within the first episodes of a region, or wait a couple of episodes [like how Ash decided to join the Pokémon League in Episode 5, though to be fair, he may have already had the idea of challenging it anyway in Episode 1 since his first scene had him getting ready while he was watching a league match on TV]. This took about 43 episodes to even hint at, let alone confirm, that Ash will be in the league.), especially when CoroCoro's coverage of Sun and Moon back when it was first announced if anything implied strongly that Ash is pretty much going to GIVE UP his Pokémon Master goal in favor of "graduating like never before."

                  As far as him winning Alola, eh, I'd beg to differ: Considering just how desperate I am to see Ash even WIN a league at this point, I'm even willing to accept him winning Alola even if it comes across as otherwise unrewarding if it at LEAST means that Ash is allowed to actually win a league for once (besides, having Ash lose in Alola when it's literally starting a league would probably be even worse and more humiliating than with Kalos precisely BECAUSE it's the first league ever for the region. And since he's literally runner up in Kalos, there's literally no other option but to have him win the league. I might have been willing to settle for a rank increase in past regions when those would have at least indicated his strength level without necessarily winning, but not anymore, not when literally the only way to advance at this point IS to win. I didn't like it when Unova had Ash decrease in rank, and I also didn't like it when Hoenn had Ash literally stay at the same rank as in Johto.).

                  As far as Pokémon Let's Go, as long as they use that to bring Misty and Brock to Alola soon like we were promised back in When Regions Collide! and thus actually ALLOW Misty to resume her Water Pokémon Master dream rather than be forced back into the gym yet again, I won't mind it ONE bit (even if it DOES come across as too easy in terms of gameplay).
                  Wait hold up, 43 episodes did you say, just for a hint/announcement of the league? Really? So the sun and moon did a 180 on Ash's dreams. The thing I don't get is that, it appears in the sun and moon that he acts like a kid. I don't see how a kid would be more invested into graduation from something so utterly useless for his character. He shouldn't be in school because of his experience! WTF IS THERE TO LEARN??? Ash would never choose something as dull as graduating from a school over becoming a pokemon master

                  The thing is with the Alola league it doesn't really matter at this point. It's a lose lose situation no matter what. If he wins, fans will be pissed because it is non-deserved and so less satisfying. If he loses, fans complain about him losing again, even with all the experience from Kalos. There is literally nothing the writers can do at this point. I'm just surprised they ACTUALLY announced a league for Alola, oh well gotta keep in touch with at least something from the prior series.

                  Fair point with the game, I guess loads of viewers have been wanting a return from the original travelling companions. I personally don't mind or don't care for a return, but at least it adds some nostalgic feel to it I guess.
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                    #10    
                  Old 5 Days Ago (9:34 PM). Edited 5 Days Ago by weedle_mchairybug.
                  weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
                     
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Sloxy View Post
                    Wait hold up, 43 episodes did you say, just for a hint/announcement of the league? Really? So the sun and moon did a 180 on Ash's dreams. The thing I don't get is that, it appears in the sun and moon that he acts like a kid. I don't see how a kid would be more invested into graduation from something so utterly useless for his character. He shouldn't be in school because of his experience! WTF IS THERE TO LEARN??? Ash would never choose something as dull as graduating from a school over becoming a pokemon master

                    The thing is with the Alola league it doesn't really matter at this point. It's a lose lose situation no matter what. If he wins, fans will be pissed because it is non-deserved and so less satisfying. If he loses, fans complain about him losing again, even with all the experience from Kalos. There is literally nothing the writers can do at this point. I'm just surprised they ACTUALLY announced a league for Alola, oh well gotta keep in touch with at least something from the prior series.

                    Fair point with the game, I guess loads of viewers have been wanting a return from the original travelling companions. I personally don't mind or don't care for a return, but at least it adds some nostalgic feel to it I guess.
                    Yeah, that question you asked is EXACTLY one of my complaints about him being stuck in a school environment, and is also one of the reasons I'm deeply outraged over the mishandling of the Kalos league, even if I ultimately think it was a better result than the Unova league due to Ash at least getting better than Sinnoh rather than simply returning to Sinnoh's level. Seriously, he's been proven to not even NEED school to be a good trainer as far back as The School of Hard Knocks all the way back in the Indigo League two decades ago where he managed to beat that top student Giselle with his Pikachu (and to make things MORE impressive, he used his Pikachu against a Cubone, and managed to beat it through indirect means by knocking it out via having its bonemerang hit it instead). And honestly, keeping him at 10 or not (which is stupid anyways...), if they didn't have him go to school for the past two decades until Sun and Moon, they really shouldn't have bothered doing it now (the best opportunity to do that would have been, say, the Orange Islands saga, which is technically the second season of the anime). Not only that, but it massively wasted Ash's abilities and development ultimately (they would have done a far better job development wise if he was dispatched by the Pokémon League commission to help set UP the Pokémon League due to his role in quelling the whole Team Flare incident, regardless of whether he won or got runner up), and all because of both the games getting RID of gym battles and the anime trying to compete with Yokai Watch apparently.

                    As far as the Alola league, true, it's probably going to be a lose-lose situation in this case, but there's not much better options, and personally, I think him even winning the league at all would work at this point, no matter how its done. Do I necessarily like the option of him winning cheaply and it feeling unearned? Absolutely not! But after 20 years of pretty much being denied even ONE win due to stupid reasons (or at least, one win from the actual games, since the writers apparently don't count the Orange League for some stupid reason like it being an anime-only region), I'm even willing to take a cheap and undeserved win if it at least ensures Ash wins for once. Call it desperation after being denied any chance of actually WATCHING Ash succeed in his goal, or do much more than simply improve (and even that and any other development he might have had in the series pretty much getting undone by the next thanks to the pointless level resets. The only time such a level reset was even REMOTELY justified was in AG due to Pikachu having recovered from a cold at the time, and even THERE, at least Pikachu beat Roxanne easily.).

                    As far as the returns for Misty and Brock that might occur with Pokémon Let's Go!, personally, nostalgia doesn't even FACTOR into why I want the characters, or at least Misty, to come back. Actually, in Misty's case, it's mostly so the writers can redeem themselves for their otherwise horrid treatment of her since GCYL, like forcing her into the Pokémon Gym thanks to her sisters, and constantly forcing her back there instead of having her, I don't know, continuing her goal and dream of Water Pokémon Master, the implications caused by how grossly mishandled the Hoenn Gym Leaders (and to a certain extent the Sinnoh and Unova Gym Leaders) were that she's if anything going to atrophy from continuing to be beaten up by rookie trainers or at least rookie teams like some sort of punching bag (seriously, I fail to see how that's even WORTH her "not simply being Ash's girlfriend" as even some fans claim about her. At least being "Ash's girlfriend" would at least have more of a chance of her, you know, actually advancing in her goal by travelling and getting stronger rather than being constantly beaten up by people she should be able to handle very easily, thus making her look like a terrible trainer in the process akin to Jessie James and Meowth.), among other things like constantly denying her a reappearance in the flesh in DP (despite Mayumi Iizuka strongly implying she'd reappear in that series in her blog), not to mention BW (thanks to their stupidity in not even allowing Misty, Brock, heck, most of the cast at that point who wasn't named Dawn to reappear via the whole Pokémon World Conference thing, despite it being a silver platter opportunity to have them return, by outright skipping the whole thing despite it being something from the games), and Kalos (which barely even included ANY continuity at all), and to add insult to injury, neither she nor Brock were even allowed to appear barring a brief cameo in the credits of Movie 20, and that was DESPITE it essentially being The Path to Power of Pokémon movies (ie, a loose retelling of Ash's first saga). The Kanto Reunion arc came pretty close to redeeming themselves, including revealing that, thanks largely to her Mega Gyarados and her strategy involving it, she was nigh-invincible (and in fact, Ash was the first person to EVER bypass her strategy, let alone beat her), having her truly redeem the Gym Leaders' honor after AG pretty much stole it from them (Brock too, BTW). Even there, since Brock, who was repeatedly stressed to be a former Gym Leader in the episode, managed to handle his opponents far better than she did, she's still got a ways to go before the writers truly redeem themselves, like actually being allowed to pursue her goal instead of being holed up in the gym thanks to her sisters. Believe me, I've got a LOT of personal reasons for wanting any opportunity to have Misty and Brock (ESPECIALLY Misty) return to the show. I'm not even asking at this point that they return permanently, just have Misty, if she leaves, actually leave to pursue her goal and dream of Water Pokémon Master, like how most of the cast after her managed to do so. I hated how they handled GCYL and her departure largely because of how they forced her to put her goal on the sideburner, not even having the opportunity to choose freely to change her goal. At least Serena, Brock, and to a certain extent Gary actually CHANGED their goals of their own free will with little to no involvement from others in their decision. Heck, even Clemont at least returned to the gym willingly, which is more than what happened to Misty, where she was outright forced to return to the gym by circumstances beyond her control. And while Brock definitely regained my respect for him in the Kanto Reunion arc, especially after the writers quite frankly ruined him back in Johto, and especially in AG onward to DP when they turned him into a Glenn Quagmire clone, and I do genuinely wish for a return from him as well, I also won't mind if he doesn't return too much (though I would be disappointed a bit in his not returning this time around).

                    In fact, to be honest, the prospect of Misty not only returning once again, but also resuming her dream of Water Pokémon Master once she leaves instead of being forced back into the gym again before the end of the show and Ash potentially winning the league this time around (especially after what happened in Kalos) are the ONLY reasons why I'm even willing to put up with the Sun and Moon series (and believe me, what I could gather of it, it's even WORSE than both AG and BW combined. At least those shows still had Ash focusing on his goal.).
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                      #11    
                    Old 4 Days Ago (6:16 PM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                      Yeah, that question you asked is EXACTLY one of my complaints about him being stuck in a school environment, and is also one of the reasons I'm deeply outraged over the mishandling of the Kalos league, even if I ultimately think it was a better result than the Unova league due to Ash at least getting better than Sinnoh rather than simply returning to Sinnoh's level. Seriously, he's been proven to not even NEED school to be a good trainer as far back as The School of Hard Knocks all the way back in the Indigo League two decades ago where he managed to beat that top student Giselle with his Pikachu (and to make things MORE impressive, he used his Pikachu against a Cubone, and managed to beat it through indirect means by knocking it out via having its bonemerang hit it instead). And honestly, keeping him at 10 or not (which is stupid anyways...), if they didn't have him go to school for the past two decades until Sun and Moon, they really shouldn't have bothered doing it now (the best opportunity to do that would have been, say, the Orange Islands saga, which is technically the second season of the anime). Not only that, but it massively wasted Ash's abilities and development ultimately (they would have done a far better job development wise if he was dispatched by the Pokémon League commission to help set UP the Pokémon League due to his role in quelling the whole Team Flare incident, regardless of whether he won or got runner up), and all because of both the games getting RID of gym battles and the anime trying to compete with Yokai Watch apparently.

                      As far as the Alola league, true, it's probably going to be a lose-lose situation in this case, but there's not much better options, and personally, I think him even winning the league at all would work at this point, no matter how its done. Do I necessarily like the option of him winning cheaply and it feeling unearned? Absolutely not! But after 20 years of pretty much being denied even ONE win due to stupid reasons (or at least, one win from the actual games, since the writers apparently don't count the Orange League for some stupid reason like it being an anime-only region), I'm even willing to take a cheap and undeserved win if it at least ensures Ash wins for once. Call it desperation after being denied any chance of actually WATCHING Ash succeed in his goal, or do much more than simply improve (and even that and any other development he might have had in the series pretty much getting undone by the next thanks to the pointless level resets. The only time such a level reset was even REMOTELY justified was in AG due to Pikachu having recovered from a cold at the time, and even THERE, at least Pikachu beat Roxanne easily.).

                      As far as the returns for Misty and Brock that might occur with Pokémon Let's Go!, personally, nostalgia doesn't even FACTOR into why I want the characters, or at least Misty, to come back. Actually, in Misty's case, it's mostly so the writers can redeem themselves for their otherwise horrid treatment of her since GCYL, like forcing her into the Pokémon Gym thanks to her sisters, and constantly forcing her back there instead of having her, I don't know, continuing her goal and dream of Water Pokémon Master, the implications caused by how grossly mishandled the Hoenn Gym Leaders (and to a certain extent the Sinnoh and Unova Gym Leaders) were that she's if anything going to atrophy from continuing to be beaten up by rookie trainers or at least rookie teams like some sort of punching bag (seriously, I fail to see how that's even WORTH her "not simply being Ash's girlfriend" as even some fans claim about her. At least being "Ash's girlfriend" would at least have more of a chance of her, you know, actually advancing in her goal by travelling and getting stronger rather than being constantly beaten up by people she should be able to handle very easily, thus making her look like a terrible trainer in the process akin to Jessie James and Meowth.), among other things like constantly denying her a reappearance in the flesh in DP (despite Mayumi Iizuka strongly implying she'd reappear in that series in her blog), not to mention BW (thanks to their stupidity in not even allowing Misty, Brock, heck, most of the cast at that point who wasn't named Dawn to reappear via the whole Pokémon World Conference thing, despite it being a silver platter opportunity to have them return, by outright skipping the whole thing despite it being something from the games), and Kalos (which barely even included ANY continuity at all), and to add insult to injury, neither she nor Brock were even allowed to appear barring a brief cameo in the credits of Movie 20, and that was DESPITE it essentially being The Path to Power of Pokémon movies (ie, a loose retelling of Ash's first saga). The Kanto Reunion arc came pretty close to redeeming themselves, including revealing that, thanks largely to her Mega Gyarados and her strategy involving it, she was nigh-invincible (and in fact, Ash was the first person to EVER bypass her strategy, let alone beat her), having her truly redeem the Gym Leaders' honor after AG pretty much stole it from them (Brock too, BTW). Even there, since Brock, who was repeatedly stressed to be a former Gym Leader in the episode, managed to handle his opponents far better than she did, she's still got a ways to go before the writers truly redeem themselves, like actually being allowed to pursue her goal instead of being holed up in the gym thanks to her sisters. Believe me, I've got a LOT of personal reasons for wanting any opportunity to have Misty and Brock (ESPECIALLY Misty) return to the show. I'm not even asking at this point that they return permanently, just have Misty, if she leaves, actually leave to pursue her goal and dream of Water Pokémon Master, like how most of the cast after her managed to do so. I hated how they handled GCYL and her departure largely because of how they forced her to put her goal on the sideburner, not even having the opportunity to choose freely to change her goal. At least Serena, Brock, and to a certain extent Gary actually CHANGED their goals of their own free will with little to no involvement from others in their decision. Heck, even Clemont at least returned to the gym willingly, which is more than what happened to Misty, where she was outright forced to return to the gym by circumstances beyond her control. And while Brock definitely regained my respect for him in the Kanto Reunion arc, especially after the writers quite frankly ruined him back in Johto, and especially in AG onward to DP when they turned him into a Glenn Quagmire clone, and I do genuinely wish for a return from him as well, I also won't mind if he doesn't return too much (though I would be disappointed a bit in his not returning this time around).

                      In fact, to be honest, the prospect of Misty not only returning once again, but also resuming her dream of Water Pokémon Master once she leaves instead of being forced back into the gym again before the end of the show and Ash potentially winning the league this time around (especially after what happened in Kalos) are the ONLY reasons why I'm even willing to put up with the Sun and Moon series (and believe me, what I could gather of it, it's even WORSE than both AG and BW combined. At least those shows still had Ash focusing on his goal.).
                      Having Ash actually help setup a league is actually a solid suggestion, as you mentioned he is worthy of such an event. And it would actually be different compared to what they have done before, and it would be very interesting to see his journey from that perspective. At this point of the show, there are just so many mistakes and unjustified actions to keep track of.

                      And as for Misty, yes it is kind of unfair what they did do her character, completely just thrown into the trash. Although, if they don't want to bring her back, then they could simply just do a special, like they do with many of the characters.

                      Btw, jesus how long do you write these for? xD
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                        #12    
                      Old 4 Days Ago (6:45 PM).
                      CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is offline
                         
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                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Sloxy View Post
                        Having Ash actually help setup a league is actually a solid suggestion, as you mentioned he is worthy of such an event. And it would actually be different compared to what they have done before, and it would be very interesting to see his journey from that perspective. At this point of the show, there are just so many mistakes and unjustified actions to keep track of.

                        And as for Misty, yes it is kind of unfair what they did do her character, completely just thrown into the trash. Although, if they don't want to bring her back, then they could simply just do a special, like they do with many of the characters.

                        Btw, jesus how long do you write these for? xD
                        Eh that’s his MO. Granted I really do wish he’d get to the point, I can’t outright criticize since I do it sometimes too.
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                          #13    
                        Old 4 Days Ago (3:34 AM).
                        weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
                           
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Sloxy View Post
                          Having Ash actually help setup a league is actually a solid suggestion, as you mentioned he is worthy of such an event. And it would actually be different compared to what they have done before, and it would be very interesting to see his journey from that perspective. At this point of the show, there are just so many mistakes and unjustified actions to keep track of.

                          And as for Misty, yes it is kind of unfair what they did do her character, completely just thrown into the trash. Although, if they don't want to bring her back, then they could simply just do a special, like they do with many of the characters.

                          Btw, jesus how long do you write these for? xD
                          Yeah, that would have more than sufficiently aided his character, not to mention it would have been an actual change while at the same time actually be consistent with the actual core element to the show (just a change in itself isn't going to cut it, especially if the change destroys the cohesion of the show's nature). There have been too many instances of the writers making loads of mistakes, from level resets for completely pointless reasons, to removing Ash's friends (though to be fair, at least most of Ash's friends, unlike Misty or Max, actually are ALLOWED to pursue their goals, or at the very least freely choose to change their goal with minimum outside influences to their decision), to treating even one major accomplishment Ash might have done as a complete joke afterward (Battle Frontier), his releasing Pokémon, have him constantly lose the league (even if he DOES get better, there were times where there was absolutely NO reason for him to lose and if anything it strongly suggested he would win, like DP and XY) among others. This whole thing about the school takes the cake. The next generation had BETTER get back to the classic route of doing gyms IF there is a next gen anime, because I don't think I can stomach any more of this school stuff (and if they end up ripping off the actual plot of Love Hina next generation where Ash fails entrance exams and has to run a girls' dorm, I will officially say the show's dead to me.).

                          As far as Misty, yeah, what they did to her after the OS was unforgivable (and for the record, I was actually pretty sickened that Brock didn't return to Pewter Gym, even though the situation there both times he had to get it out of trouble was arguably a WHOLE lot worse than at Cerulean Gym in Cerulean Blues). Heck, what they did to the Gym Leaders as a whole, even. The OS made it very clear that, while not to the level of the Elite 4, the Gym Leaders were still forces to be reckoned with, and even with the so-called pity badges in Kanto (man, do I hate that term...), they STILL came across as tough foes to crack (even JJM when they became Gym Leaders proved to be more challenging than usual), with the only real exception being Misty's sisters, and Ash never even fought them. And in Johto, at least Ash had some veterans besides Pikachu on his team to compensate for fighting the Gym Leaders. Unfortunately, starting with AG and its "fresh start", they started making the Gym Leaders about as competent in battling as Jessie James and Meowth were generally (ie, bottom-feeding trainers).

                          Yeah, I tend to get extremely detailed in my responses. Don't know if it's my aspergers that partially influences it, but I do know that a large part of it is that I have zero confidence in expressing things generally (whenever I do use general terms, Dad constantly interrupts me and demands to know who do I mean or what do I mean. And I figure that, if dad can't do generalities if I use them, there's no hope I can use generalities, period).

                          Quote:
                          Eh that’s his MO. Granted I really do wish he’d get to the point, I can’t outright criticize since I do it sometimes too.
                          I wish it were that easy. Unfortunately, if I try to get to the point, people end up even MORE confused (believe me, I'd know, because I tried that with generalities).
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                            #14    
                          Old 3 Days Ago (5:43 PM). Edited 3 Days Ago by Sloxy.
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                          Sloxy Sloxy is offline
                             
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                            I guess to know the plot, we'll have to wait for a new game to be released in 2019, since I doubt anything will be based or taken off of the lets go games. Since you know, its pokemon go in a nutshell. Unless the writers become even bigger ret*rds than they already are. Although in all honesty, I don't know how much further away you can get from Ash's goal than going to school. What a joke. I just want the show to go back to what I loved it being, sure it's still pokemon, but it just doesn't give you that same feeling. I also hope in the next series they wont just trash the mega evolution. I loved that aspect, something different and a better challenge for Ash. And i don't want that "Kalos is the main region for mega evolution" bullsh*t, because it isn't. Steven Stone's metagross can mega evolve, and he's in the Hoenn region.

                            And if they do decide to include mega evolution in the next series, then there is a chance of Ash-Greninja returning, because in all honestly I don't know why they would scrap him. And the z-moves. Throw em away. They don't belong in the pokemon universe. You should not have a move, a ONCE a battle move that can for sure, 100% faint the enemy pokemon. It's just so stupid and just shouldn't be there. Oh hi there champion, lets battle. You brought out you ace-pokemon who can mega evolve? Oh let me just do some stupid dance moves and one shot it. I know it's super strong and is nearly impossible to beat, but let me just one shot it with this "skillful" move. Oh look I defeated your ace pokemon, I am such a good trainer!

                            Z moves in a nutshell. Should not exist. No place for them in the pokemon world. And that's my opinion on them. Just straight up unbalanced and ruin the anime fights. Nothing more predictable than a z move in a fight.
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