Debate How to deal with China

The Chinese Communist Party's increased desire to flex its expansionist muscles is a discussion that I find I return to on a near daily basis. They are terrifying - and I am very careful to single out the CCP here, as I do not want this thread to fall into the pitfalls of 'criticising China on the world stage = fuck the Chinese' that is parroted by supporters of the CCP.

But what can be done, or perhaps more idealistically, what do you think should be done?

This is not a thread to excuse America or such either - I am well aware of the problems of the West in general, as PC members remotely familiar with me will probably know by now, lol.

This will be the Chinese century, but does it have to be the CCP's century?

The last thing anyone wants is war, honestly I think the first and easiest thing to do is support pro democracy movements in China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. Things like UN peacekeepers and observers, to make sure the police do not abuse the people, finding ways to break through China's "Informational Great Wall" to inform people of the abuses their country is engaging in, even fine companies like Google that help contribute to the suppression of information.

If worse comes to worse, possibly a so called "option of last resort" where as many first world countries as possible agree to suspend trade with China until reform happens. Obviously this will impact the civilians the most and may lead to war, so it should be used more as a threat than an actual option, but it could be enough to get China's attention.

China's a difficult situation because they, more or less, control an insane amount of the global economy through their cheap labour and manufacturing. It's awful to think about, but I'm not sure I see any way to remedy the China situation quickly. In fact, the more I think on this, the more I think that the only way we're going to be able to deal with China is if we all cease to be economically dependent on them. In short, we need to start investing in domestic production and production outside of China. Once we aren't ad dependent on Chinese labour, we can much more easily impose sanctions, withhold business etc etc and economically strangle them into cleaning up their act. This... would not be fun for the Chinese people and quite possibly for a lot of people outside of China too but it's the best I've got at this stage.

In the meantime, we keep calling them out on their shit and continue to support pro-democratic/pro-freedom movements and the like.

But what can be done, or perhaps more idealistically, what do you think should be done?

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It's tough to think about ideally what should be done since there's no monolithic party nor a group of parties of sufficient clout and cohesiveness that can "do something" whether that be the international theatre, or even the government of China. Nor is there compelling reason for any of these parties you can think of to do something about China, as China isn't really a threat in the way that would inspire a group of international actors to act in a decisive way and in fact China is probably more so becoming more interdependent on the rest of the world.

If I assume what OPs saying about "dealing with" China as meaning turning China into a Western-style democracy that protects the rights and freedoms of all its citizens and non-aggressive with its dealings abroad, it's only the Chinese people who have the power to make such a thing happen. It'll probably only happen if the people withdraw their support for the Communist Party, which I don't really see happening. Most people in China have witnessed their quality of life improve over multiple generations in succession. The Communist Party has provided outlets for social grievances which look like they're working. The one-child policy was repealed a couple of years back. Major American websites are certainly blocked, but there are local alternatives that have been supported by the Communist Party that have flourished into a relatively isolated self-sustaining social media ecosystem which to be honest is kind of similar to the echo-chambering we see in today's media despite the theoretical increase in connectivity that you thought social media would provide back in 2010. China is developing a social welfare system, as maligned by corruption as it is, in response to the potential for social unrest if they don't. And of the protests that do exist, they strike a careful balance of letting some protests take place whereas shutting down more threatening ones even before they start, all to create an air of business as usual.

As undemocratic as the Communist Party is, they've done a pretty good job of staying in power. They are really good at setting the agenda. Over the year's they've become better and better at becoming seamlessly present in Chinese society. There really isn't anything the government doesn't touch or have some say in, and they try their best to be involved in everything without being explicitly authoritarian. Unless there's a big shock to the system, like a massive recession or international instability, the Communist Party is firmly in the driver's seat in deciding its destiny.

And part of it is the Chinese people too, you can't leave them out of it. Whether or not you think they're just drinking the Kool-aid, Chinese mainlanders have a pretty strong interest in making sure China has an assertive rise in the 21st century. It's like MAGA, except it's not internally oriented, divisive and coming from a place of insecurity, it's outward assertiveness that we're only seeing expressed now as China is becoming legitimately more powerful. If China was as powerful as it is now ten years ago, we would've seen it then. Not much anyone can do about that.