Seventh Generation Alola, trainers! Come discuss the latest generation in the Pokémon series with us! This includes Sun & Moon as well as Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon.

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Old August 13th, 2018 (12:27 PM).
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    I have three big complaints here, two of which were mentioned.
    Plot. An intrusive story really hurts the gameplay experience. In fact, it's why my second play-through took an extra three months- because it got so bad that I stopped being interested.
    Ultra versions. The hype for these overglorified DLC games and the sudden same-gen incompatibility BLEW THE EXPERIENCE FOR ME. And they didn't even add Blacephalon and Stakataka to the game's files! You can't even take on the Multi-Battle Tree with an Ultra version next to you. That bites, hard.
    No serious post-game. I will admit that the Looker ultra beast quests were alright, but they were just an over-glorified variant of regular capture quests. Rainbow Rocket's quest was nice, but again, it was contained in Ultra and should have been added to the main game in the first place. The fact that they had to advertise the post-game for Ultra just shows how little there is to do when all's said and done. And there's STILL not much left after Ultra is finished. Why don't they give us a Battle Frontier already?
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    Old August 13th, 2018 (7:53 PM).
    Ebeneezer X Ebeneezer X is offline
       
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      when pkm red and blue first came out on the game boy --- i was the first kid on my street to own both versions and even had an extra game boy ( my farher's actually) in house to be absolutely sure i could complete my pokedex.... 7generations later im 32yrs old and still play, but of all the complaints i could make there is one. ONE thing game freak failed on: denying players the ability to change the names of traded pokemon.......there are all sorts of issues worth criticizing about any game, but none of which I loathe and H A T E the most than this: one day i shall ascend the halls of game freak studios with stencil and paint in hand and enscribe upon the walls all the terrible nicknames i'd been forced to endure and suffer through the ages... i bought a turtle once from a friend. The turtle's name was Bob. Upon returning home i knighted the turtle sir SnapSalot and he (the turtle) and my friend were indifferent to the name change---- I ask you, how much greater is a living turtle than a virtual one? Yet these game developers say it's not my place to rename a traded pokemon.... this is madness of a most high order. sigh' venting completed
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      Old August 14th, 2018 (1:37 PM).
      RileyXY1 RileyXY1 is offline
         
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        There are several reasons:

        1. The cutscenes were much too long and were unskippable, stiffling gameplay.
        2. They pandered to Gen 1 excessively, even more than XY did.
        3. The game was too linear. Rotom Dex literally showed them where to go on the minimap.
        4. Rotom Dex itself was seen as obnoxious and annoying, especially in USUM.
        5. They removed many great features from XY, including the PSS and Super Training. And they replaced them with garbage features like the Festival Plaza.
        6. The new fishing mechanics are a pain in the butt. Good luck trying to find a Pokemon other than Magikarp!
        7. USUM were way too similar to SM.
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        Old August 24th, 2018 (6:15 PM).
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        everyone being disappointed that usum is too similar to sm seem to have forgot that crystal/platinum/emerald exist
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        Old August 24th, 2018 (8:08 PM).
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          everyone being disappointed that usum is too similar to sm seem to have forgot that crystal/platinum/emerald exist
          Forgot Yellow unless you count the different starters and other noticeable differences as a reason to exclude it. I think the reason later generations, specifically this one, is that GF has put more emphasis on story at the expense of player freedom. Namely freedom to explore, freedom to go wherever the player wants and freedom to ignore/skip the cutscenes if you’ve played the game 500 times already.
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          Old August 25th, 2018 (3:33 AM). Edited August 25th, 2018 by Lemongrass1234.
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            sun/moon is not enjoyable because we r all overstimulated, theres high speed smartphones and 2400p Porn, thats all way too much for us humans to deal with.

            In 1 day we experience more than our ancestors did in months/years, that isnt healthy at all and it's gonna take thousands of years to even adapt to what we r supposed to handle right now, that's why so many ppl have mental problems, feels like every 2nd guy has mental issues

            cut out internet, tv, smartphones for 2 weeks and then play us/um again ... its a whole different experience and way more enjoyable, thats why Red/Blue had such an impact when it came out 20 years ago .. because we were not that overstimulated, i was there at that time, it was a much different life back then
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            Old August 25th, 2018 (3:20 PM).
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              everyone being disappointed that usum is too similar to sm seem to have forgot that crystal/platinum/emerald exist
              That... might not be entirely fair. Crystal, Platinum, Emerald, (and I supposed Yellow to an extent) all added significant enhancements to the base game. Crystal gave us the Battle Tower in a generation which didn't really have anything like that and added in a second player character and sprite animations, Emerald gave us the Battle Frontier and the ability to catch Johto Pokemon in its Safari Zone, Platinum gave us a new area to go to and again, the Battle Frontier, and all these versions gave us the ability to catch both box legendaries when in the base games you could only catch one or the other, and fleshed out the stories significantly. USUM... gave us wormholes I guess? Both games gave us new minigames to play and the ability to explore Ultra Wormholes and catch Pokemon we otherwise couldn't, but I'd argue the changes they made to the story kinda lessened it as opposed to enhancing it (how they resolved Lillie and her conflict with Lusamine is something I'll never fully sit right with) and what little they did give us, they didn't really flesh out like they did with the previous third versions. Rainbow Rocket was done and over with in about an hour or two, and there wasn't really much besides the Battle Tree which... just isn't on par with the Battle Frontier from previous gens. Ultra Wormhole exploration is a very novel concept, but there's not much to explore beyond a few hallways where you'll find a Pokemon at the end and a couple spots where you'll find an Ultra Beast. Shouldn't there be more to explore? I liked the idea of Mantine Surfing but you're still going on a rail between the islands and there's nowhere to really explore or even catch Pokemon. Heck we can't even get both Solgaleo and Lunala in a single game; we still have to trade between games, and the opposite world where it's 6 hours ahead of yours still has Pokemon from the opposite time of day.

              I think what did the second set of games in the most was the hype they generated before they were released and how the games we got didn't measure up. Everybody was hyped; we thought the story was gonna be hugely different, we thought Rainbow Rocket was gonna be this huge thing, we thought Lillie was gonna be a trainer way sooner, some of us even speculated there might be more islands. What we got was kinda limited compared to what we were expecting, and while the games themselves are still pretty good, they still carried a lot of the same flaws the previous games did and added in some new ones.
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              Old August 25th, 2018 (4:30 PM). Edited August 25th, 2018 by colours.
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              It's entirely fair. One thing I will never understand is why people downplay USUM's additions in comparison to every other third game. I'm saying this as someone who's first generation was third gen and my favourite is fourth, that Emerald and Platinum introduced absolutely nothing "significant" to RS. I guess if you count the slight storyline change in including Rayquaza and Giratina, but USUM did the very same thing with Necrozma. Battle Frontier got its own island in Emerald and Platinum, but that means very little in the grand scheme of things. DPPt introduced to us The Underground which is the best thing ever, but Mantine Surfing is a very quick and efficient (arguably fun depending on what side of the argument you're on) and not to mention easy way to earn BP for move tutors, when prior to this you just hand to mindlessly battle your way in previous games in order to get any decent amount of BP whatsoever (even then you earned very little, making getting any worthwhile moves a chore). USUM, Emerald, and Platinum are basically all in the same boat because they've all done essentially the same thing -- slight storyline changes, USUM added a mini-game while Platinum didn't really do much of anything in the way of that and neither did Emerald. All the latter two had going for it was the Battle Frontier and Rayquaza.

              Honestly I'd just argue Yellow had the most changes out of every third game, but that's mostly because it changes the very fundamentals of the game to a degree due to who your starter is. Crystal I'll grant you has a significant change in adding Kris as the first female playable character and introducing Battle Tower for the first time, but the gameplay is arguably the same as GS and that's my bigger point that you're missing here: ever third game (maybe bar Yellow version) feels largely the same to the prior two games that were released. The whole point of third games is essentially to serve as some sort of retelling of the first two games in addition to some sort of minor feature addition, some storyline changes, and maybe some other changes here and there. That was always the trend since Crystal and it holds true to this day no matter how you look at it with nostalgia goggles.

              You can debate against anyone all day and night about the quality of the additions USUM included, but I'm not arguing quality, it's quantity. As far as quantity is concerned, it's just about the same (or around there) as every other third game released.

              By the way, I agree that marketing the games as something entirely different was a huge flaw, but I don't expect TPCi to undersell a Pokemon game. A marketing company's job is to hype up the product they're trying to sell, after all.
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              Old August 26th, 2018 (4:02 AM).
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              tbh I think that the whole "USUM is too similar to S/M" sentiment stems from the fact that these weren't the sequels people wanted

              when you look at them, they really are like the 3rd versions of the past

              but for some reason people thought they were gonna be sequels (which have obviously been hugely different from their original pair) and never really let go of the idea for some reason, even when it was made abundantly clear that they were not going to be sequels

              and so when we finally got to play them, people got upset that these things that they (unreasonably) expected to be hugely different were not all that different

              and then on top of this, maybe everyone's just getting tired of the whole "release initial unpolished pair-->release slightly more polished 3rd versions" cycle
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              Old August 26th, 2018 (6:47 PM).
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                Aside from all the other talking points that also reflect my disappointment in this generation, I will point out the UI when using the online features is not as smooth as I would like it to be, which leaves something to be desired.

                However, in the spirit of positivity, I will say USUM did some quality-of-life improvements to the Poke Pelago, especially Isle Evelup. Now I no longer have to remove the Pokemon out of the Poke Pelago & place them back to "play longer", since USUM now has a button serving the literal function.
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                Old August 27th, 2018 (7:49 AM).
                Dusk Mane Koopa Dusk Mane Koopa is offline
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                  And there's STILL not much left after Ultra is finished. Why don't they give us a Battle Frontier already?
                  Well, there's the Battle Tree... if that's OK.
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                  Old August 27th, 2018 (5:22 PM). Edited August 27th, 2018 by Orondhor.
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                    So what I've gathered from this thread is that I might as well forgo playing Sun/Moon and go directly to US/UM?
                    -yeah, I'm a little behind generations-
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                    Old August 27th, 2018 (5:58 PM).
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                    So what I've gathered from this thread is that I might as well forgo playing Sun/Moon and go directly to US/UM?
                    -yeah, I'm a little behind generations-
                    I don't think you'd be in any distinct advantage by playing SM first, so you're fine to go straight to USUM.
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                    Old August 28th, 2018 (3:23 AM).
                    Hikamaru Hikamaru is offline
                     
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                    Aside from all the other talking points that also reflect my disappointment in this generation, I will point out the UI when using the online features is not as smooth as I would like it to be, which leaves something to be desired.
                    That's Festival Plaza, the most unanimously-hated feature of this entire generation for you.
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                    Old August 28th, 2018 (5:17 AM).
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                    So what I've gathered from this thread is that I might as well forgo playing Sun/Moon and go directly to US/UM?
                    -yeah, I'm a little behind generations-
                    Yeah, definitely skip Sun/Moon and just go for the Ultra versions
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                    Old August 28th, 2018 (7:06 AM). Edited August 28th, 2018 by Hikamaru.
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                    So what I've gathered from this thread is that I might as well forgo playing Sun/Moon and go directly to US/UM?
                    -yeah, I'm a little behind generations-
                    As Nah and Colours said, you are much better off going for US/UM. They are clearly the superior versions, since they already have mostly the same story progress as S/M, but with additional stuff like useful Move Tutors and the Mantine Surf minigame which can be really useful for grinding up BP to purchase certain items or use the Move Tutors.

                    While the postgame isn't as expansive as say, HG/SS or B2/W2, it still has some good postgame content like Rainbow Rocket, Battle Tree and exploring Ultra Space, where you can catch various Pokemon, as well as each of the Ultra Beasts.
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                    Old August 28th, 2018 (11:21 AM).
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                      That's Festival Plaza, the most unanimously-hated feature of this entire generation for you.
                      Indeed, a feature that had much potential but (very) poorly executed. Though, USUM made a slight improvement that you can (sort of) redesign your castle. However, the rigid UI is something I will never get used to.
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                      Old August 28th, 2018 (3:55 PM).
                      Hikamaru Hikamaru is offline
                       
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                      Indeed, a feature that had much potential but (very) poorly executed. Though, USUM made a slight improvement that you can (sort of) redesign your castle. However, the rigid UI is something I will never get used to.
                      Actually, both SM and USUM have the ability to redesign the castle, though USUM does add that Rainbow Rocket castle.
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                      Old August 28th, 2018 (4:26 PM).
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                        Is that so? Well, I'll be...

                        I suppose that's what I get for being relatively apathetic to the Festival Plaza in Sun. Then again, this only proves our case of the Festival Plaza being an overall failure.
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                        Old August 29th, 2018 (8:31 AM).
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                        Is that so? Well, I'll be...

                        I suppose that's what I get for being relatively apathetic to the Festival Plaza in Sun. Then again, this only proves our case of the Festival Plaza being an overall failure.
                        Alright, I may in fact, be in the minority, but I actually like Festival Plaza. Sure, it’s not as quickly accessible as the PSS from last gen and you have to go into a new interface and then connect from in there as opposed to jumping right in, but it provides a lot of stuff to do outside of simply “get in, get online, do what you need”, such as Bottle Cap farming, dying your outfit, quickly removing unwanted EVs, buying some useful items, and (if you have it set up) a fast way to power-level to 100 that isn’t as monotonous as killing Chansey after Chansey. Getting online can enhance the experience more in a somewhat similar manner to the PSS, making the place feel like an ingame online hub, which matches the spirit of what Pokemon truly is. The only real problem is the steep learning curve, especially if you’re more used to the PSS, but when you’re in, it can get quite fun. Another minor gripe was how hard it was to farm Festival Coins in SM, and you had to rely on fortune tellers to get the boosts. USUM though, alleviates this by increasing the gains from monotonous tasks while it also provides the Battle Agency, which can really rake in the dough.

                        In essence, it took the concept of the Join Avenue from B2W2, and expanded upon it.
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                        Old August 29th, 2018 (2:20 PM).
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                        Being someone who has been more or less away from conversations about this generation pretty much since SM came out, I feel like I have a untainted opinion of this generation, and it isn't really a good one.

                        Don't get me wrong, I liked a lot of the Pokemon they added (especially Mimikyu), and the story had a really strong premise. But that is about it, all downhill from there. A lot of little problems added up to make playing the games a lackluster experience, and even an unbearable one at times.

                        1) I'll start with the Rotom Dex. I actually hate that thing with a burning passion. It was annoying, ruined any feeling of exploration, and took up the entire bottom of the DS screen at all times. It sounds great to have in a game for the younger kids to have fun with, but without an opt out option it just mocked me the whole time.

                        2) Then came the button scheme. For the previous two games on the 3DS i was still able to use the D-pad as my primary walking and running control. When i turned on the game for the first time and couldn't use the D-pad the way it had been for literally every Generation before it, I felt lost. I still do actually, it just doesn't feel natural.

                        3) When i found out they were ditching gyms for another type of game progression tool I was optimistic whether it could be done well. I think they had a good idea, but it ended up falling into an uncanny valley where it was pretty much a re-skinned gym with no context... I found it hard explaining to myself why they were significant, which brings me to my next gripe.

                        4) Z-moves are stupid. I don't like them. They look terrible, they are too powerful, and they don't make any sense. I literally can't find any reason to like them, and as a result I never used them.

                        5) This is connected to my D-pad sadness, but I also really don't like having to ride Pokemon. I never thought I would say this, but I miss HMs. They were more logical (sorry, but the summon idea is actually stupid), didn't take my bike away, and I still had my D-pad.

                        6) As for the story... I didn't like Han (I think that was his name). Lilly was cool, and team scull was pretty funny at times, but overall it ended up being oversimplified for such a convoluted and complicated plot line. They had a lot of room to have some really cool battles and events, and they didn't use their story to it's full potential. At least in my opinion. This is probably the one complaint that everyone will disagree with me to some degree.

                        7) Finally, the main reason that I don't like this generation was the game itself. Despite how it looks, this is at least 90% of my problem with the game. I felt like the game was too linear. I always had that red flag on the bottom of my screen, like I was just going through the motions. I miss when i could do things out of order to an extent. I know it hasn't been that way since Gen 3, but this game exemplified that feeling. There was no alternate path, only the one they laid out in front of you. There was no challenge. I couldn't even feel like I was making the decisions for myself.

                        A lot of these problems I have here can be attested to me just having grown up a bit. I think that is the issue for a lot of the people here. But this game didn't have to be this way. Like I said, these are all relatively small complaints on their own but add up to be a big issue. If SM has received a lot of hate, this "so many little things" would be a pretty good reason why.
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                        Old August 30th, 2018 (6:07 AM).
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                          Originally Posted by Hikamaru View Post
                          As Nah and Colours said, you are much better off going for US/UM. They are clearly the superior versions, since they already have mostly the same story progress as S/M, but with additional stuff like useful Move Tutors and the Mantine Surf minigame which can be really useful for grinding up BP to purchase certain items or use the Move Tutors.

                          While the postgame isn't as expansive as say, HG/SS or B2/W2, it still has some good postgame content like Rainbow Rocket, Battle Tree and exploring Ultra Space, where you can catch various Pokemon, as well as each of the Ultra Beasts.
                          Quote:
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                          Yeah, definitely skip Sun/Moon and just go for the Ultra versions
                          Quote:
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                          I don't think you'd be in any distinct advantage by playing SM first, so you're fine to go straight to USUM.
                          Alright, on it. Thanks for the recommendations!
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                          Old September 2nd, 2018 (3:51 PM). Edited September 2nd, 2018 by Taste of Tea.
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                            It's a very unbalanced set of games. I got Ultra Moon a few days ago and it seems too simple in the sense that everything is handed to the player on the first island it seems like, and navigating through the game seems too straight forward. Meanwhile, trading seems kind of convoluted with the whole Festival Plaza thing, plus I hate how most of the minor NPCs only have one Pokemon each.
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                            Old September 9th, 2018 (8:56 AM).
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                              I think visually it lost a big part of the classic look to the series.
                              There extremly 3D look doesn't feel as nice as the more moderate 2.5D.
                              Combine this with a new map that was quite small, linear, had no gyms, bikes, or traditional methods of travel.
                              I think it tried to fix what wasn't broken.
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                              Old September 9th, 2018 (9:27 AM).
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                              The graphic concerns are understandable, I think. Unless you grew up with the 3D spinoffs like Pokemon Stadium/Pokemon Colosseum etc, you're probably not going to be too attached to the 3D in Gen 7.
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