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Arceus is not omnipotent/powerful

Started by Pokedigifan1178 March 24th, 2019 4:11 AM
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Pokedigifan1178

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AYou know, they say Arceus is the most powerful Pokémon. Yes that may be true but he is not as powerful as you think he is.

Here are some reasons why.

1. If he was god then why are you able to capture him. This the problem with all legendary Pokémon as well. If the creation trio and Arceus are gods then why can they be captured into little balls by ten year olds to engage in cockfights.

2. The best feat of Arceus was he created the Pokémon universe. However that was only one universe, and he drained pretty much most of his power in doing it. Lots of people in fiction can create universes, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re powerful, especially if they waste almost all their energy in creating just one.

(Also the idea of every Pokémon game, being it’s own universe is a fan theory. It does not mean Arceus is multiversal, because since when was Arceus a multiversal being.)

3. If he was god, then why did Arceus almost die from a meteor hitting him. I know a lot people say this is PIS, (plot induced stupidity), but still why did he almost die from a meteor. It’s so stupid to see a so called god nearly die from a psyducking meteor.

4. Arceus in order to be powerful, needs these so called plates. Since when does a god need something in order to be powerful.

5. He had to struggle to fight the creation trio. He created the creation trio which means he is more powerful than them, yet he had to put up a struggle with them. If he was god he would have just instantly defeated them.

Those are just some of the reasons why I believe Arceus is powerful alright but he is a weakling compared to other gods in fiction. He’s just not the powerful god many Pokémon fans believe he is.

One other thing that I say about Arceus was the fact that He was subdued by regular Pokémon and molten Lead or some other metal. I find that both stupid and funny.

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.

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Honeslty, Arceus is my least favourite legendary Pokemon. The concept of a Pokemon that made everything doesn't sit well with me, and your post proves to me that its concept wasn't executed that well. I wish this thing was never made.
Do you like Pokemon battles? If yes, then come play The Great Pokemon Battle 9!

Pokedigifan1178

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Honeslty, Arceus is my least favourite legendary Pokemon. The concept of a Pokemon that made everything doesn't sit well with me, and your post proves to me that its concept wasn't executed that well. I wish this thing was never made.
Yeah it almost sounds like Nintendo wanted to put religion in its games.

It sounds very ridiculous to hear that a psyducking space goat created the psyducking universe

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.
Seen April 18th, 2019
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I agree that as a monotheistic omnipotent god, Arceus isn't something that makes a lot of sense - but then again, I don't think it's meant to be a monotheistic omnipotent god, especially since even if we're just going on Sinnohan mythology, there are three other "deities" closely linked to Arceus - those being Dialga, Palkia and Giratina - and then the lake guardians, which also seem to have some relation to the creation mythos of Sinnoh. Rather than seeing Arceus as a sort of replica for, say, an Abrahamic deity, it makes more sense to see it as one of the many deities that exist naturally within the Pokemon world. Just like Alola has the tapus, which are worshipped, and Kanto has the mew species (I say species because it's implied that there are multiple mew), Sinnoh has Arceus and the other deities.

Looking at the dex entries for Arceus, it's interesting to note that nothing really paints it as being omnipotent - all it implies is that Arceus is at least as old as, if not older than, the "universe" - but that it created the world, not the universe. In fact, funnily enough, while none of Arceus' dex entries refer to it as a deity, both Palkia and Dialga's do. In that case, it's easier to see Arceus as a world-shaper rather than anything else - and to do that, it uses its plates, which allow it to harness the elements. In Arceus and the Jewel of Life, it's shown that the aforementioned Jewel was formed of the core elemental plates (and a few extras for good measure), so it's clear that Arceus uses these as a method of taking on power it otherwise couldn't have due to being a normal type, which further hammers home the fact that it isn't omnipotent, because it isn't a monotheistic god.

Though people in Sinnoh do build temples to Arceus in a way that resembles churches, that can be played off simply as them showing thanks for the creature that they believe gave them life. Arceus, however, isn't solely responsible for everything - it might have made the world, but if Dialga is the representative of time and Palkia is the representative of space, then Arceus clearly needed these to create the realm within with the world was formed. I also believe the idea that Giratina represents gravity, and that's a fundamental universal force too - but I won't go into that since I don't think that's canon. On top of that, mew is the possessor of all DNA, meaning mew must have been needed to properly form pokemon - and if we believe the Sinnohan idea that humans and pokemon are closely linked in terms of evolution, then mew is also responsible for human life, not Arceus.

These factors all point to one conclusion - Arceus can't be seen as a monotheistic god, and I don't think it should ever be viewed as such. Given that Pokemon is a Japanese franchise and the most popular religions in Japan are apparently Shinto and Buddhism, both of which are technically polytheistic, it makes no sense to apply Western monotheism to the culture of the Sinnoh region, especially since it's a Japanese-inspired region. To Unova, sure, monotheism makes more sense, but this isn't Unova. As such, seeing Arceus as part of a sort of "clan" of deities that also contains Palkia, Dialga, Giratina and, yes, several other legendaries, both from the Sinnoh mythos and from other regions, makes a lot more sense. Just think of Arceus as... the Zeus of them. Probably the most singularly powerful, but by no means invincible - and, like many polytheistic gods, not at all immune to death.

And at the end of the day, more than being a "deity," which is technically a human-created category in the Pokemon world, Arceus is a pokemon. "So-called god" is correct - Arceus didn't label itself that, humanity did. Just because we say something, doesn't mean it's true - but what is true is that Arceus is as much a pokemon as any other. Much like a poke ball works on a wooper, it will also work on Arceus - it's just a little harder to catch it due to its increased power level.

Pokedigifan1178

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I agree that as a monotheistic omnipotent god, Arceus isn't something that makes a lot of sense - but then again, I don't think it's meant to be a monotheistic omnipotent god, especially since even if we're just going on Sinnohan mythology, there are three other "deities" closely linked to Arceus - those being Dialga, Palkia and Giratina - and then the lake guardians, which also seem to have some relation to the creation mythos of Sinnoh. Rather than seeing Arceus as a sort of replica for, say, an Abrahamic deity, it makes more sense to see it as one of the many deities that exist naturally within the Pokemon world. Just like Alola has the tapus, which are worshipped, and Kanto has the mew species (I say species because it's implied that there are multiple mew), Sinnoh has Arceus and the other deities.

Looking at the dex entries for Arceus, it's interesting to note that nothing really paints it as being omnipotent - all it implies is that Arceus is at least as old as, if not older than, the "universe" - but that it created the world, not the universe. In fact, funnily enough, while none of Arceus' dex entries refer to it as a deity, both Palkia and Dialga's do. In that case, it's easier to see Arceus as a world-shaper rather than anything else - and to do that, it uses its plates, which allow it to harness the elements. In Arceus and the Jewel of Life, it's shown that the aforementioned Jewel was formed of the core elemental plates (and a few extras for good measure), so it's clear that Arceus uses these as a method of taking on power it otherwise couldn't have due to being a normal type, which further hammers home the fact that it isn't omnipotent, because it isn't a monotheistic god.

Though people in Sinnoh do build temples to Arceus in a way that resembles churches, that can be played off simply as them showing thanks for the creature that they believe gave them life. Arceus, however, isn't solely responsible for everything - it might have made the world, but if Dialga is the representative of time and Palkia is the representative of space, then Arceus clearly needed these to create the realm within with the world was formed. I also believe the idea that Giratina represents gravity, and that's a fundamental universal force too - but I won't go into that since I don't think that's canon. On top of that, mew is the possessor of all DNA, meaning mew must have been needed to properly form pokemon - and if we believe the Sinnohan idea that humans and pokemon are closely linked in terms of evolution, then mew is also responsible for human life, not Arceus.

These factors all point to one conclusion - Arceus can't be seen as a monotheistic god, and I don't think it should ever be viewed as such. Given that Pokemon is a Japanese franchise and the most popular religions in Japan are apparently Shinto and Buddhism, both of which are technically polytheistic, it makes no sense to apply Western monotheism to the culture of the Sinnoh region, especially since it's a Japanese-inspired region. To Unova, sure, monotheism makes more sense, but this isn't Unova. As such, seeing Arceus as part of a sort of "clan" of deities that also contains Palkia, Dialga, Giratina and, yes, several other legendaries, both from the Sinnoh mythos and from other regions, makes a lot more sense. Just think of Arceus as... the Zeus of them. Probably the most singularly powerful, but by no means invincible - and, like many polytheistic gods, not at all immune to death.

And at the end of the day, more than being a "deity," which is technically a human-created category in the Pokemon world, Arceus is a pokemon. "So-called god" is correct - Arceus didn't label itself that, humanity did. Just because we say something, doesn't mean it's true - but what is true is that Arceus is as much a pokemon as any other. Much like a poke ball works on a wooper, it will also work on Arceus - it's just a little harder to catch it due to its increased power level.
Great summary.

But I also brought the Arceus thing up.

Because some Pokémon fans believe that Arceus can beat a lot of other beings in fiction like Zeedmilleniummon, they think Arceus can win cause he is a god.

When in reality he is an ant compared to other fictional gods.

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.
Seen April 18th, 2019
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I definitely feel as though, casting game mechanics aside, anime!Arceus could definitely put up some fight, but it’s definitely more mortal than a vast majority of other fictional gods and would absolutely fall short just because of that. It’s been implied that Arceus can die, so that alone would make it an easier target than a legitimate immortal / invincible entity.

Pokedigifan1178

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I definitely feel as though, casting game mechanics aside, anime!Arceus could definitely put up some fight, but it’s definitely more mortal than a vast majority of other fictional gods and would absolutely fall short just because of that. It’s been implied that Arceus can die, so that alone would make it an easier target than a legitimate immortal / invincible entity.
Don’t forget that Arceus got his ass kicked by pikachu a bit

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.
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Don’t forget that Arceus got his ass kicked by pikachu a bit
I feel as though Pikachu transcends normal pokemon ability himself, but if Arceus can be brought down a peg by Pikachu, then any other standard fictional god would have a fairly easy time against it, I think. I'll give Arceus credit for holding its own against Dialga, Palkia and Giratina in a fight, though, because that earns it some points.

Pokedigifan1178

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I feel as though Pikachu transcends normal pokemon ability himself, but if Arceus can be brought down a peg by Pikachu, then any other standard fictional god would have a fairly easy time against it, I think. I'll give Arceus credit for holding its own against Dialga, Palkia and Giratina in a fight, though, because that earns it some points.
Although people say Arceus and the creation trio are universe level.

In the anime, they were city level.

They barely destroyed a city.

That’s it.

That’s why Pokémon fans should think twice before they say Arceus can defeat the digimon verse or any other powerful fictional verse

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.
Seen April 18th, 2019
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Although people say Arceus and the creation trio are universe level.

In the anime, they were city level.

They barely destroyed a city.

That’s it.

That’s why Pokémon fans should think twice before they say Arceus can defeat the digimon verse or any other powerful fictional verse
I do think that the implication was that, left unchecked and if fighting with abandon, the creation trio is capable of ripping apart the fabric of the universe, but that is a process that takes time, hence why only a city was destroyed - and that was with the efforts of others actively trying to stop them, as well as, if I recall, the destruction of that city (and the universe) not being the aim of that battle.

I definitely think that people who view Arceus as an all-powerful entity are missing the mark, though. If anything, I think Arceus is just meant to be the ultimate “trio master,” better than the others due to its world-shaping capabilities.

Pokedigifan1178

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I do think that the implication was that, left unchecked and if fighting with abandon, the creation trio is capable of ripping apart the fabric of the universe, but that is a process that takes time, hence why only a city was destroyed - and that was with the efforts of others actively trying to stop them, as well as, if I recall, the destruction of that city (and the universe) not being the aim of that battle.

I definitely think that people who view Arceus as an all-powerful entity are missing the mark, though. If anything, I think Arceus is just meant to be the ultimate “trio master,” better than the others due to its world-shaping capabilities.
All these answers prove that Arceus is overrated.

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.

Pokedigifan1178

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I don’t even think Arceus is necessarily a beloved pokemon - unfortunately, many people seem to dislike it outside of competitive Ubers. Overstated by fans (not canon), yes, but certainly not overrated.
Also he kinda looks stupid.

Because I find it super crazy that a goat created the universe.

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.
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The fact that people in the pokemon universe worship him doesn't make him a god, it just means people have ascribed divinity to it. In the real world many cultures worship animals, that doesn't lean they actually have supernatural qualities. So I'd imagine it makes sense that pokemon that are both rare and powerful become the stuff of legends (literally legendaries) and people might start worshipping them.
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I quite like the design - it may not look like a traditional god, but it’s important to remember that it isn’t a god, just a creature that pokemon fans refer to as a god and that people in the pokemon universe (in Sinnoh, at least) appear to worship. Interestingly though, no dex entry suggests that Arceus made the universe - just that it shaped the world itself, which is far more plausible given some other legendaries’ (and regular pokemon’s, actually) abilities.

But I agree with The Alolan Naturalist - it’s not necessarily that Arceus is a god, just that people have begun to view it as such due to its nature.

Pokedigifan1178

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I quite like the design - it may not look like a traditional god, but it’s important to remember that it isn’t a god, just a creature that pokemon fans refer to as a god and that people in the pokemon universe (in Sinnoh, at least) appear to worship. Interestingly though, no dex entry suggests that Arceus made the universe - just that it shaped the world itself, which is far more plausible given some other legendaries’ (and regular pokemon’s, actually) abilities.

But I agree with The Alolan Naturalist - it’s not necessarily that Arceus is a god, just that people have begun to view it as such due to its nature.
Though I find the dex entry that said that Arceus had 1,000 arms to be ridiculous.

Where are those 1,000 arms it has

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.
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Though I find the dex entry that said that Arceus had 1,000 arms to be ridiculous.

Where are those 1,000 arms it has
I like to imagine that it’s either a) metaphorical and a reference to its powers or plates or something along those lines, only somewhat exaggerated, or b) (and maybe my preferred concept) that it’s a reference to “minions” Arceus enlisted, such as other legendaries - or, perhaps, unown, since they’ve been shown to be capable of distorting the fabric of reality in large numbers.

But I think it’s best to take the dex with a pinch of salt. It says that magcargo burn at 18000F - and I don’t use the Fahrenheit system, but a quick google search tells me that the surface of the sun is just under 10000F. You aren’t seriously telling me that magcargo are twice as hot as the sun (and still somehow have a solid shell!).

Pokedigifan1178

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I like to imagine that it’s either a) metaphorical and a reference to its powers or plates or something along those lines, only somewhat exaggerated, or b) (and maybe my preferred concept) that it’s a reference to “minions” Arceus enlisted, such as other legendaries - or, perhaps, unown, since they’ve been shown to be capable of distorting the fabric of reality in large numbers.

But I think it’s best to take the dex with a pinch of salt. It says that magcargo burn at 18000F - and I don’t use the Fahrenheit system, but a quick google search tells me that the surface of the sun is just under 10000F. You aren’t seriously telling me that magcargo are twice as hot as the sun (and still somehow have a solid shell!).
Yeah a lot of Pokédex entries don’t make sense.

I believe the Pokédex itself is made by 10 year olds.

Because for one. How can a drifloon carry a child away when it’s extremely light.

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.
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Yeah a lot of Pokédex entries don’t make sense.

I believe the Pokédex itself is made by 10 year olds.

Because for one. How can a drifloon carry a child away when it’s extremely light.
The pokedex definitely isn't a scientific database, that's for sure. If we took every dex entry seriously, all species would have been wiped out long ago simply by some pokemon's presences.

As for drifloon, I always chalked that up either to exaggeration or... anime physics...? Except... IRL. In the sense that pokemon already exhibit the ability to exert supernatural force on others - and being a ghost type, drifloon may possibly have some telekinetic or psychic abilities that give it extra strength. On its own, though, removing the possibility of powers and just using basic physics, it'd be pretty improbable that any drifloon could pick up any child.

Pokedigifan1178

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The pokedex definitely isn't a scientific database, that's for sure. If we took every dex entry seriously, all species would have been wiped out long ago simply by some pokemon's presences.

As for drifloon, I always chalked that up either to exaggeration or... anime physics...? Except... IRL. In the sense that pokemon already exhibit the ability to exert supernatural force on others - and being a ghost type, drifloon may possibly have some telekinetic or psychic abilities that give it extra strength. On its own, though, removing the possibility of powers and just using basic physics, it'd be pretty improbable that any drifloon could pick up any child.
Then why do we add the Pokédex entries if they are not true.

Is it to make peopl catch more of these Pokémon thanks to exaggerations and myths.

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.
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Then why do we add the Pokédex entries if they are not true.

Is it to make peopl catch more of these Pokémon thanks to exaggerations and myths.
Possibly! Alternatively, some of them are more just exaggeration and twisting facts - or a sort of fun "collectibles reward" thing for children looking to play the "catch em all" game. I'm sure that, were the pokemon world real, there'd be an alternative, scientific dex for people looking for real information to peruse through. And some of the dex facts seem fathomable enough to be true.

Pokedigifan1178

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Possibly! Alternatively, some of them are more just exaggeration and twisting facts - or a sort of fun "collectibles reward" thing for children looking to play the "catch em all" game. I'm sure that, were the pokemon world real, there'd be an alternative, scientific dex for people looking for real information to peruse through. And some of the dex facts seem fathomable enough to be true.
I guess the Pokémon scientists should take the opportunity to make a more accurate Pokédex.

Back to Arceus

Still wondering why some people say he’s a monotheistic god.

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.
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I guess the Pokémon scientists should take the opportunity to make a more accurate Pokédex.

Back to Arceus

Still wondering why some people say he’s a monotheistic god.
That's true.

But again, it's most likely the pushing of western perceptions onto an eastern game. People are more likely to apply their own societal norms onto unfamiliar topics because it helps them make sense of the world. Think of all those times people have found skeletons of warriors and presumed them to be male, only to find that an equal amount were female. We presume that as women aren't typically warriors in our society, that all other societies follow suit. The same goes for our views on race relations, or gender perceptions, or anything else that can be viewed through a social lens. Religion is the same - we assume Arceus must be a monotheistic god figure because we're accustomed to monotheism. It seems to have "more power" - ergo, it must be the sole god, when that isn't the case.

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Firstly, I want to say that this thread is friggin hilarious. Great arguments, but I can't agree with many of the points made here, because they seem to be coming from the anime and stuff, which is anything but canon. Arceus, in my opinion, is not overrated. It does not have a large enough strong fanbase. Thing is, I'd say Arceus is meant to be the strongest Pokemon, and logically should be, but I can attribute any of it's shortcomings to this statement: it's a game (the anime's logic is just dumb, Pikachu can kill gods, but is defeated by a Snivy). Why do all the trainers in the same class look identical? Why do all Pokemon of the same species look like clones of each other? Why do all the trees look the same? Simple. It's a game. Legendaries can be captured for fun and because they're on the box. Gods are defeated because of game mechanics, not lore aspects. Let's look at some other games. In games like Destiny, you kill a god who sliced a planet with six people. The reason? Because it's a game. It's too damn hard to explain instances like these. If a Dialga is defeated by a Dizzy Punch from a Spinda, it's because the game allows it too. In "reality," Dialga can probably literally take us back to a time when we did not exist and destroy us. So while I do feel that it's stupid how GF would try to contradict their own lore, there's not much we can do. The game mechanics decide everything. As for the goddamn dex entries, I agree, those are just really weird. The newer ones are a bit darker and interesting, but some of the older ones make no sense. In one entry, Sharpedo can chew through steel, so why doesn't it just shred the Raticate you're battling?

Pokedigifan1178

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Firstly, I want to say that this thread is friggin hilarious. Great arguments, but I can't agree with many of the points made here, because they seem to be coming from the anime and stuff, which is anything but canon. Arceus, in my opinion, is not overrated. It does not have a large enough strong fanbase. Thing is, I'd say Arceus is meant to be the strongest Pokemon, and logically should be, but I can attribute any of it's shortcomings to this statement: it's a game (the anime's logic is just dumb, Pikachu can kill gods, but is defeated by a Snivy). Why do all the trainers in the same class look identical? Why do all Pokemon of the same species look like clones of each other? Why do all the trees look the same? Simple. It's a game. Legendaries can be captured for fun and because they're on the box. Gods are defeated because of game mechanics, not lore aspects. Let's look at some other games. In games like Destiny, you kill a god who sliced a planet with six people. The reason? Because it's a game. It's too damn hard to explain instances like these. If a Dialga is defeated by a Dizzy Punch from a Spinda, it's because the game allows it too. In "reality," Dialga can probably literally take us back to a time when we did not exist and destroy us. So while I do feel that it's stupid how GF would try to contradict their own lore, there's not much we can do. The game mechanics decide everything. As for the goddamn dex entries, I agree, those are just really weird. The newer ones are a bit darker and interesting, but some of the older ones make no sense. In one entry, Sharpedo can chew through steel, so why doesn't it just shred the Raticate you're battling?
Still the creation trio hasn’t shown much feats.

In the anime, they barely destroyed a city.

Probably PIS but still they only destroyed like a single city.

I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me.
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