Seventh Generation Alola, trainers! Come discuss the latest generation in the Pokémon series with us! This includes Sun & Moon as well as Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon.

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Old 2 Weeks Ago (9:08 PM).
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    Lillie is perhaps one of my most hated Pokemon NPCs. She's intrusive, annoying, and literally makes the entire story about her. The entire storyline is stolen away from the MC, and instead, it's like chaperoning her across four islands and watch her bloody Cosmog grow up. I just felt the game was about her and her mom, and her brother, and basically everything Lillie. At first, I didn't mind her, but she's just as intrusive in USUM as she is in SM, and I also didn't like the fact that the entire story hinged off of her character development. I have a million more reasons, but I'm hoping to see your opinions. Happy hating :)
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    Old 2 Weeks Ago (10:07 PM).
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    Decibel575 Decibel575 is offline
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      She is just so damn useless, and most of the game play is baby sitting her, or getting her out of trouble. And don't even get me started on the anime. You can obviously tell the writers love Lillie to death, as she seems to have been the one to get the most development. Her Vulpix is getting the Pikachu treatment, and the got a bloody Icium Z. She doesn't even have a Z-Ring for Christ sake. The whole being afraid of Pokemon was alright at first, but it just became so stupid towards the end. Like the episode that was supposed to be a Lana episode, the stoutland. They just had to remind the viewers on who is actually the best character in the cast. Woo, you got on a stoutland, good job. Lana found a Z-Ring, so you can't try to one up her.

      The whole game could have been solved if she had just given us cosmog in the first place. Or if she kept it in a damn pokeball, but nooooo. We mustn't question the great and beautiful Lillie.
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      Old 2 Weeks Ago (7:28 AM).
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      w1f1pa55w0rd w1f1pa55w0rd is offline
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Decibel575 View Post
        She is just so damn useless, and most of the game play is baby sitting her, or getting her out of trouble. And don't even get me started on the anime. You can obviously tell the writers love Lillie to death, as she seems to have been the one to get the most development. Her Vulpix is getting the Pikachu treatment, and the got a bloody Icium Z. She doesn't even have a Z-Ring for Christ sake. The whole being afraid of Pokemon was alright at first, but it just became so stupid towards the end. Like the episode that was supposed to be a Lana episode, the stoutland. They just had to remind the viewers on who is actually the best character in the cast. Woo, you got on a stoutland, good job. Lana found a Z-Ring, so you can't try to one up her.

        The whole game could have been solved if she had just given us cosmog in the first place. Or if she kept it in a damn pokeball, but nooooo. We mustn't question the great and beautiful Lillie.
        Agreed. The thing is, Lillie is just plain annoying. Her character "development" ended up being BS because she literally takes a hat off. I did that in the seventh grade when I found it can cause baldness. Now I haven't come from a household of parental abuse, so I wouldn't know much about what Lillie is going through, but here's something I've got to get out. Firstly, Lusamine likely never really beat Lillie. The game never really gave too much evidence of Lusamine mentally torturing Lillie, simply being too controlling. In fact, the maximum level of abuse I feel Lillie incurred was neglect from her mother, but you have to understand, Lusamine lost her husband, Mohn, and was desperately trying to find him. Clearly, she was already off her rockers. I'm not trying to defend Lusamine, but I've seen people say they can relate with Lillie, but really, can they? She was probably much better off than them.

        Also, I find a lot of the people I talk to IRL who say that they think that Lillie deserves the attention because she survived abuse also say that Pokemon is a kids game. So why the bloody heck would there be overt mentions of psychological abuse in a fricking children's game? Answer me that. I don't care if people like her or not, I just hate her, and I like to be vocal about it :) Another thing about Lillie that bugs me is that the story quite literally revolved around her growth as a person. And there we were, with our sardonic little smile, walking right behind her, to save her Cosmog because she was too useless to take care of Nebby (also, am I the only person who dislikes that nickname?). Funnily enough, I see a lot of people saying they felt bad that she was gone, but I was elated, jumping with joy when that ship sailed off.

        Lastly, in all the other games, it's really cool and memorable (at least for me) to see how far you've come. There are just several reminders of how far you've come, and how far you've still got to go, even after you've beaten the league. But in this game, it felt like Lillie's goodbye was the final ending more than the actual league, as though her send-off was more important than us becoming the strongest trainers in Alola. I hope to see more interesting roasts, cause I really need to vent right now, and yes, many people tell me to control the anger and talk to someone, but Pokecommunity is so much better :)
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        Old 2 Weeks Ago (3:22 PM).
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          That mental abuse things, I'm goung by that line about how if you aren't perfect then you are useless to her. I just assumed she treated her like a doll. A lot of real mothers do that. But yeah, if they wanted to make Lillie the main part of the story, make her the damn playabke character. But her character growth in that scene was her moving away from her mother's influence. Still bloody BS though, even then you couldn't find a pokemon to actually help me in battle

          In other games, I really felt like the Pokemon League was just one more step because we had the Battle Frontier or something. While USUM sort of did better, with your starter popping out of it's Pokeball in an attempt to show how far you had come? I think. The original just felt empty, and while I did feel a little sad by Lillie leaving, it was only because of Stockholm syndrome. I was trapped with her so long that I actually started to like her a little
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          Old 1 Week Ago (12:55 PM).
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            Why didn't Lillie go with Hau for the story? At least Hau actually liked her. Even your in game character smiles like she's telling her the most boring story and won't shut up. Hau was way more likeable. Upbeat, jolly and determined to improve himself.
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            Old 1 Week Ago (11:20 PM).
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              I blame USUM Lusamine for why Lillie was so useless, annoying, and potentially growing at a slow pace too slow to help and all.
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              Old 1 Week Ago (9:38 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by HeroLinik.
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              Important message: Alright, so while a topic like this can get quite opinionated, it's fine if people can share their opinions. However, topics like this are prone to getting heated quite quickly. Should this topic spiral out of control, I'm gonna have to lock it. Keep this in mind!

              But anyway, while I liked Lillie as a character, I have to admit that her arc didn't have the same nuances in USUM than it did in SM. This is probably because of how Lusamine's goals were guided differently and she wasn't under the influence of Nihilego, and from there she'd take out her frustrations on Lillie and disown her for the Ultra Beasts. However, it was quite refreshing seeing Lillie actually become a trainer, but her Pokemon selection was quite lacklustre. Sure, it's her favourites, but it's this late in the game and everyone's using fully-evolved Pokemon while there she is with a mere Clefairy. This was quite off-putting and made the postgame Faba Rainbow Rocket battle harder than usual.
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              Old 1 Week Ago (7:46 AM).
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              SM focuses too much on Lillie to allow other characters to shine, but it's also plagued with poor pacing that makes Lillie's development rather stilted, leaving no real positive for the game to lean on. Lusamine's motives are also incredibly asinine in SM to the point where it feels foolish to want to help Lillie at all.

              Lusamine's motives are much improved in USUM, but the entire climax of the game was horribly executed, leaving us with no conclusions to any character arcs, meaning Lusamine and Lillie didn't benefit much in the long run. I appreciate that USUM tried to give Hau a bit more of the spotlight instead of putting all of their eggs in Lillie's basket, but again poor pacing weakened what had the potential to be a more enjoyable character arc.

              In general I feel Alola's characters are just weaker versions of older characters: in Lillie's case, she is a less successful iteration of N, not wanting Pokémon to get hurt (or keep them in Poké Balls), disliking battles, and dealing with an abusive parent for most of their life. But where BW allowed other characters their opportunity to grow while also giving N complexities that made him successful, SM had a myriad of characters who have no value save for Lillie, and Lillie's intrusiveness and ineptitude mean it's easy to dislike her. And with her being the only real character in the game, it sets the entire narrative up for failure.
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