Off-Topic Hang out with people and talk about whatever. Feel free to suggest a better description for this forum as everyone seems to have an opinion. :D

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old July 29th, 2013 (8:31 AM).
Esper's Avatar
Esper Esper is offline
  • Silver Tier
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 10,350
In a sense anyway. What he said was: "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge them?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC News
Pope Francis has said gay people should not be marginalised but integrated into society.

Speaking to reporters on a flight back from Brazil, he reaffirmed the Roman Catholic Church's position that homosexual acts were sinful, but homosexual orientation was not.

He was responding to questions about whether there was a "gay lobby" in the Vatican.

"If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge them?"

He also said he wanted a greater role for women in the Church, but insisted they could not be priests.

The Pope arrived back in Rome on Monday after a week-long tour of Brazil - his first trip abroad as pontiff - which climaxed with a huge gathering on Rio de Janeiro's Copacabana beach for a world Catholic youth festival.

Festival organisers estimated it attracted more than three million people.

His remarks on gay people are being seen as much more conciliatory than his predecessor's position on the issue.

Pope Benedict XVI signed a document in 2005 that said men with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests.

But Pope Francis said gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.

"The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well," Pope Francis said in a wide-ranging 80-minute long interview with Vatican journalists.

"It says they should not be marginalised because of this but that they must be integrated into society."

But he condemned what he described as lobbying by gay people.

"The problem is not having this orientation," he said. "We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem."

On the role of women in the Church, he said: "We cannot limit the role of women in the Church to altar girls or the president of a charity, there must be more.

"But with regards to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and says no... That door is closed."

Answering questions about the troubled Vatican bank, he said the institution must become "honest and transparent" and that he would listen to advice on whether it could be reformed or should be shut down altogether.

"I don't know what will become of the bank. Some say it is better that is a bank, others that it should be a charitable fund and others say close it," he said.

'Undisciplined'

Before leaving Brazil, Pope Francis gave a highly unusual one-to-one interview to a Brazilian TV programme.

The interview was shown on TV Globo's high-profile Sunday night documentary programme Fantastico, broadcast not long after the Pope departed for Rome.

The Pope was asked about the moment on his visit when his driver took a wrong turn and his vehicle was surrounded by crowds.

"I don't feel afraid," he answered. "I know that no-one dies before their time.

"I don't want to see these people who have such a great heart from behind a glass box. The two security teams [from the Vatican and Brazil] worked very well. But I know that I am undisciplined in that respect."

Asked about the recent protests by young people on the streets of Brazil, the Pope said: "The young person is essentially a non-conformist, and this is very beautiful.

"It is necessary to listen to young people, give them places to express themselves and to be careful that they aren't manipulated."

Asked about his simple lifestyle and use of a small car, he said it wasn't a good example when a priest had the latest model of a car or a top brand.

"At this moment I believe God is asking us for more simplicity," he added.
article found here

What do you think? Is this a change for the church or just more of the same? Will there be a backlash or wider acceptance?
__________________
Reply With Quote

Relevant Advertising!

  #2    
Old July 29th, 2013 (9:52 AM).
Trev's Avatar
Trev Trev is online now
starting my comeback tour
     
    Join Date: May 2012
    Location: anywhere as long as I have dogs
    Age: 20
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Sassy
    Posts: 1,131
    At least he has enough common sense not to ban them from anything. It's about time we have some kind of leader in the world that isn't 100% against homosexuality and women in higher roles.
    __________________

    Pokemon RedChal

    Gen VII Sprite Thread

    Catas

    Reply With Quote
      #3    
    Old July 29th, 2013 (12:21 PM). Edited July 29th, 2013 by YourNobody.
    YourNobody's Avatar
    YourNobody YourNobody is offline
       
      Join Date: Jul 2006
      Location: Minnesota, USA
      Age: 32
      Gender: Female
      Nature: Quirky
      Posts: 29
      Well, keep in mind that he still condemns acting on homosexual desires. He still thinks that's wrong. This information is just benign. Oh, so the catholic church's stance on homosexuality remains the same? Okay.
      Reply With Quote
        #4    
      Old July 29th, 2013 (2:44 PM).
      Keiran's Avatar
      Keiran Keiran is offline
      Fight Off Your Demons
      • Moderator
       
      Join Date: Apr 2011
      Location: New Jersey
      Age: 25
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Careful
      Posts: 2,418
      Well he has one thing right. Gay sex IS sin..sational!


      Maybe with whats going on in Russia some people realized its time for them to stop condemning groups of people over personal beliefs, cause what leader would want to be likened to Putin right now? I mean look how much praise the Queen got recently for her support of equality. What he said isn't revolutionary or anything, but progress is progress no matter how minor.
      __________________
      Mod of Trade Corner| Pair | Trainer Information

      When kings upon the main have clung to pride
      And held themselves as masters of the sea
      I've held them down beneath the crushing tide
      Till they have learned that no one masters me
      Reply With Quote
        #5    
      Old July 29th, 2013 (3:31 PM).
      Entermaid's Avatar
      Entermaid Entermaid is offline
         
        Join Date: Jan 2013
        Location: The States
        Gender: Other
        Nature: Adamant
        Posts: 2,148
        It could be the case, since Catholic Priests cannot engage in any sexual activity, their innate sexual desires have no effect on the position of priesthood. Thus, the Pope doesn't see homosexuality as a disqualifying attribute.

        Though, I honestly would like to see a Pope come out in support of priests' ability to marry and engage in sex. The tradition that priests cannot marry was founded upon securing the wealth of the church after the priests' deaths, and thus, the money would not go to a spouse and children. Nowhere in the Bible, explicit or inferred does it state anything about this doctrine, and celibacy was required by the church in the 12th century, up until then, this practice didn't exist. The doctrine is outdated and doesn't do the Church any favors.
        __________________
        #Team Popplio & Brionne
        Reply With Quote
          #6    
        Old July 29th, 2013 (8:05 PM).
        Cassino's Avatar
        Cassino Cassino is offline
           
          Join Date: Oct 2006
          Nature: Serious
          Posts: 7,754
          Hm. I wonder if he is a reformist, and this is as far as he can go for now within the realm of acceptability among his peers.
          I'm not optimistic enough to believe that, but it's an intriguing thought.
          Reply With Quote
            #7    
          Old July 29th, 2013 (8:16 PM).
          Livewire's Avatar
          Livewire Livewire is offline
          • Platinum Tier
           
          Join Date: Jul 2009
          Location: Sunnyshore City
          Gender: Male
          Nature: Adamant
          Posts: 14,264
          He's still quite conservative and old school, but he just has a very diplomatic way of saying things. A good lesson in political science.
          __________________
          Reply With Quote
            #8    
          Old July 30th, 2013 (2:59 AM). Edited July 30th, 2013 by TRIFORCE89.
          TRIFORCE89's Avatar
          TRIFORCE89 TRIFORCE89 is offline
          Guide of Darkness
          • Gold Tier
           
          Join Date: May 2004
          Location: Temple of Light
          Age: 27
          Gender: Male
          Nature: Quiet
          Posts: 8,128
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Livewire View Post
          He's still quite conservative and old school, but he just has a very diplomatic way of saying things. A good lesson in political science.
          Indeed.

          What he's said isn't anything new. It hasn't been being gay that's been frowned upon in the Church, it's been when that's taken to intercourse. Same for straight couples. Teaching has been, as least in my lifetime, sex only for purposes of procreation, and sex within marriage only - with the purpose of marriage to raise children within the faith. So.... priests can't get married and they need to be celibate. So, if they're good priests they're not having sex whether they're gay or not - so it makes no difference if they're gay. That's what he's saying... just very nicely. But in either event, the Church has been teaching tolerance for years - he just makes it grander with the washing of the feet and such.

          Is it a sin otherwise? Yeah. But, so what? Same for heterosexuals outside of marriage. So, whatever. If you're part of the faith you believe that in the end everyone's sins are forgiven anyway and nearly everyone ends up in heaven. He just recently said that people of other faiths and no faith can enter heaven. So, would be the same for gay people I think.

          I think the women having a greater presence in the Church comment he made was the more... actually news news.

          Regardless, I like this Pope a lot more than the last one. I like how he presents things that have been true for awhile now but that people don't pay attention to.

          ...when in doubt, follow him on Twitter. You get a free pass XD
          __________________
          Reply With Quote
            #9    
          Old July 31st, 2013 (10:57 PM).
          Plumpyfoof's Avatar
          Plumpyfoof Plumpyfoof is offline
             
            Join Date: Apr 2011
            Location: Melbourne, Australia
            Age: 23
            Gender: Male
            Nature: Sassy
            Posts: 916
            Finally the ridiculous behaviour of the Christian church has someone in power who can actively turn them around for the better.

            I just hope we don't have any extremist Christians who get real mad and end up assassinating the Pope in the name of "God".

            Quotations were used to indicate their personal perception of God not as a degradation implying lack of existence, thank you.
            Reply With Quote
              #10    
            Old July 31st, 2013 (11:46 PM).
            Darkrai666's Avatar
            Darkrai666 Darkrai666 is offline
            ThatscaryFreakyguywhoisDa rkrai
               
              Join Date: Jul 2013
              Age: 16
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Lax
              Posts: 121
              I support gay marriage because of Neil Patrick Harris BROSPECT!
              __________________
              This signature has been disabled.
              exceeds 350px height limit -- please decrease so no scrollbars appear
              Please review and fix the issues by reading the signature rules.

              You must edit it to meet the limits set by the rules before you may remove the [sig-reason] code from your signature. Removing this tag will re-enable it.

              Do not remove the tag until you fix the issues in your signature. You may be infracted for removing this tag if you do not fix the specified issues. Do not use this tag for decoration purposes.
              Reply With Quote
                #11    
              Old August 1st, 2013 (2:59 AM).
              TRIFORCE89's Avatar
              TRIFORCE89 TRIFORCE89 is offline
              Guide of Darkness
              • Gold Tier
               
              Join Date: May 2004
              Location: Temple of Light
              Age: 27
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Quiet
              Posts: 8,128
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Plumpyfoof View Post
              Finally the ridiculous behaviour of the Christian church has someone in power who can actively turn them around for the better.
              There is no Christian Church. Catholicism is only one denomination of the Christianity. And the Pope hasn't said anything new, just articulated it better. But even if he had, it would only change Catholicism not Christianity.
              Reply With Quote
                #12    
              Old August 1st, 2013 (4:01 AM).
              Zero°'s Avatar
              Zero° Zero° is offline
              Mirai Nikki
              • Gold Tier
               
              Join Date: Nov 2008
              Location: Florida
              Age: 21
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Relaxed
              Posts: 1,293
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
              Is it a sin otherwise? Yeah. But, so what? Same for heterosexuals outside of marriage. So, whatever. If you're part of the faith you believe that in the end everyone's sins are forgiven anyway and nearly everyone ends up in heaven. He just recently said that people of other faiths and no faith can enter heaven. So, would be the same for gay people I think.
              I'm pretty sure they have to ask for forgiveness before the sins are forgiven, I think. But anyway I don't see why not, maybe he didn't mention it since homosexuality is frowned upon by just about every faith? idk but I like this Pope, he keeps it pretty down-to-earth while still being a faithful Catholic. I wish all religious people were like this,
              Reply With Quote
                #13    
              Old August 2nd, 2013 (2:24 PM).
              droomph's Avatar
              droomph droomph is offline
              weeb
              • Crystal Tier
               
              Join Date: Sep 2011
              Location: nowhere spectacular
              Age: 20
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Impish
              Posts: 4,291
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by YourNobody View Post
              Well, keep in mind that he still condemns acting on homosexual desires. He still thinks that's wrong. This information is just benign. Oh, so the catholic church's stance on homosexuality remains the same? Okay.
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Keiran777 View Post
              Well he has one thing right. Gay sex IS sin..sational!


              Maybe with whats going on in Russia some people realized its time for them to stop condemning groups of people over personal beliefs, cause what leader would want to be likened to Putin right now? I mean look how much praise the Queen got recently for her support of equality. What he said isn't revolutionary or anything, but progress is progress no matter how minor.
              You know, if you don't really accept that there are people who think being gay is wrong, then you're also ignorant too. Equality is for both parties to work on. Just because you're in the minority doesn't mean that everything you say is right. Same here. Just because you're gay or support their equality doesn't mean that everything you say is right and all aspects of other's beliefs are wrong.

              Stop feeling validated just because you're something. Feel validated because you accept everyone for who they are.

              I'm really sick and tired of hearing these people say "omg i'm so accepting b/c i support gay people" and then when you mention Christianity, even off-handedly (like wow the Bible is a cool book!), and they go off on a rant about how Jesus is wrong God is fake and all Christians should look at themselves and how dare you have a different belief than me!

              It's saddening to see these supposedly "liberal" and "open-minded" groups of people are actually just like the conservative groups they hate so much. I try to bring up another point of view with them (such as maybe God exists but we don't know how he looks like) and instead of debating it like I expected them to because that's what they're supposed to do based on their description of "liberal" and "open-minded" they denounce me for having a different opinion.

              I really am disappointed in these people I just described. Conservative and liberal alike, I dislike anyone that is prejudiced. I dislike anyone who can't take another point of view. I dislike anyone who treats any differing opinions personally. It doesn't matter what your views are, but that you can respect everyone is what matters.

              As for the topic, that's all I have to say. This isn't surprising news to me or anybody that's a Christian and such, it's only surprising for "liberals" who are so prejudiced to think that every single religious person thinks that gay people should go to hell.
              __________________
              did u no there r 21 letters in the alphabet
              o i forgot 5
              uraqt


              Reply With Quote
                #14    
              Old August 2nd, 2013 (4:33 PM).
              Keiran's Avatar
              Keiran Keiran is offline
              Fight Off Your Demons
              • Moderator
               
              Join Date: Apr 2011
              Location: New Jersey
              Age: 25
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Careful
              Posts: 2,418
              You gotta be karate kidding me. Yes, I'm so intolerant and hypocritical for being relieved that the new Pope isn't using his position of power to tell the world that a group of innocent people are demonic scum and pedophiles. *rolls eyes* I think you misunderstood my post.
              Reply With Quote
              Reply
              Quick Reply

              Sponsored Links
              Thread Tools

              Posting Rules
              You may not post new threads
              You may not post replies
              You may not post attachments
              You may not edit your posts

              BB code is On
              Smilies are On
              [IMG] code is On
              HTML code is Off

              Forum Jump


              All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:21 AM.