Advertiser Content

Is PC for Beginners? Should It Be?

Started by Kikpanther January 27th, 2016 9:37 PM
  • 3991 views
  • 48 replies

Kikpanther

Not a beginner that's for sure

Female
Louisiana
Seen June 26th, 2018
Posted June 24th, 2018
671 posts
10.7 Years
I think the answer is yes it is and yes it should be. However, I don't think PC likes to behave like a space for beginner RPers. Instead, we have a lot of advanced RPs that intimidate our less skilled members and make it hard for them to improve and branch out. The beginner RPs that we DO have are either poorly made so no one wants to join them, die off quickly, are not properly advertised as such, or act as a black hole where none of the beginner RPers on PC escape (*coughcough*PTA*coughcough*).

The RPC community seems small, but in reality I don't think it is. We have a lot of RPers that are unknown to the forum because they are afraid to or are unwilling to branch out of the one RP they found themselves comfortable in. That honestly doesn't work. That is not how a community should work. Intentional or not, I feel as though RPC is not as welcoming as it used to be. There is an air of elitism and clique-ishness here that says "if you're not in the group, you're not in anything". There is an implication in PC that if you don't come in with or have a group of friends to RP with then you're not going to have many chances to RP period. If you don't feel like this then tbh there's a 90% chance you're in one of these groups.

RPC is meant to be and should be open to all kinds of players no matter how good or bad they are. Yet, there doesn't seem to be a lot of encouragement. Very little RPs made for beginners, very little resources that help unskilled writers get better, and very little confidence boosting for RPers who don't think they can join an RP because they don't think they're good enough for it. There's also very little encouragement for people who join and make RPs for the same people over and over again to try and branch out and meet new RPers and RP with new people.

Honestly, I think this is something that we can and should fix, but it takes a lot of effort on the part of the leadersip (the mods) and the community (the RPers) to get together and try to make this hapen.
Anya Odile // Bae'd to Quest // The Frozen Gate

gimmepie

Age 24
Male
Australia
Seen 24 Minutes Ago
Posted 7 Hours Ago
20,620 posts
7.6 Years
I'm inclined to disagree. Whilst I can see why some of us come of a bit cliquey since we talk a lot on Skype there's plenty of RPs here that are perfectly open to people who are newer to roleplaying and I know that the majority of us who GM do our best to help beginners rather than chase them out. In fact, there's actually been quite a few newer RPers/GMs come into the RPT. Off the top of my head LinearAxel, JohnnyMustang, Merlin, Milotic and desinishon are all newer to the corner and they aren't the only ones.

I guess, aside from some of us being really close friends, I just don't see where you're coming from at all. I think that the RPT has become a lot less elitist in recent years and I know for a fact that most of us are thrilled to see new faces around here.

FireSnow

Show me that Fighting Spirit

Age 23
Male
Ambrette Town, Kalos
Seen September 11th, 2019
Posted June 7th, 2019
2,630 posts
4.3 Years
I'm sorry you feel this way. I do agree with you to a point that it can be very intimidating for new RPers to branch out and RP like the way they want to. But I can say that I used to be one of the new members, and still am really, and can say that I really enjoy it here. One just has to feel confident in their writing but be open to feedback. I can say that I really appreciate several members who have been GMs or just members in a skype chat for giving me advice on my writing. My first ever post was absolute trash when i made it, but I like to think I have made progress and I thank the people I've RP'ed with for being the reason. Something as simple as reading their posts has been a major reason for my writing getting steadily better.

I don't get the clique vibe at all. I get more of the "long time members who talk with each other a lot and have become friends" vibe. I know that if i asked for help, more than enough members here in the RP section would be happy to help.

As fort those who aren't as good at RP'ing, I feel I can say on behalf of the RP community, and for sure myself, that we would be happy to help them out in their writing. I understand feeling scared or nervous about asking for help from such good writers but we are all extremely nice and want this community to be great.

Anyways I again am sorry that you feel this way. If there is anything I can do to help, reach out to me!

That goes for any member that feels their writing is not as good. No one should feel bad about their writing. It's one of the greatest stress relievers I've found and a lot of fun to immerse yourself in your own and other's stories! :)

Quest

Veteran Roleplayer

Male
Seen October 22nd, 2019
Posted June 24th, 2018
983 posts
10.5 Years
I am going to be entirely honest. I agree with Kikpanther in many aspects of their post, though I believe they did word some things rather awkwardly looking back on it.

There is a distinction on the RPT that sets apart beginner style RPs from that of advanced RPs. It may not be noticed by many, but its there. Its not necessarily a barrier of skill and length, but also how attractive the RPs can appear to a person just getting into the writing scene. Beginners will not post in 'advanced' RPs, even if their grammar and writing style are well enough to get by.

Yes, I know for a fact that many, if not most, of the RPers here would love to help. Hands have been reached out before, just as Gimme said.

Now, I agree that there is a clique, though this isn't necessarily a bad thing. A lot of time, I see a RP mentioned in the skype group targeted towards the GMs particular group of friends. Its mentioned there, and as soon as its posted, the skype chat is blown up with the news that its been accepted and the friends of the GM flock into RESERVE their spot.

This stops a lot of beginners from getting the chance to get in the RP when there is limited spots. Hell, when there isn't, the fact that a large group whom have obviously RPed together for awhile coming into a thread can intimidate literally anyone. I wouldn't really say this is a problem in its entirety, but it is a thing that has been happening a lot recently and needs to be addressed.

There's also very little encouragement for people who join and make RPs for the same people over and over again to try and branch out and meet new RPers and RP with new people.
This is the main problem caused by it. I dare you to go through the RPs on this forum. See who's in them. How many times did you see the exact same names in several? How many times did you see someone newer to the forum?
// Bae'd to Kikpanther //

Astronaut

space adventure

Non-binary
Seen 1 Day Ago
Posted 1 Day Ago
I don't have time to write a lengthy response right now, but just addressing one of Quest's points: what do you suggest we do about the "flocking to reserve" thing, then? I don't see how we could forbid friends to RP together, and I also don't think it sounds reasonable to try and do that. However, as a GM myself, I recognize the scenario and have been wanting to get more new faces in. I think rather it's up to the GM what people to let in to the RP than something we need to officially regulate though? People here are responsible. People can be responsible GMs. Or maybe that's what you were trying to get at; the mindset of GMs needs to change?

Quest

Veteran Roleplayer

Male
Seen October 22nd, 2019
Posted June 24th, 2018
983 posts
10.5 Years
Obviously, the banning of friends from RPs would destroy the RPT. Something like that cannot happen. I would say something needs to be done in a similar fashion to how you put it. Its up to the GM.

I, on one hand, despise the fact that reservations are a thing. As I said before, it blocks off newer members AS well as people who may offer more to that specific RP. On the other, I'm not saying reservations need to not become a consistent thing, I enjoy the fact that when I'm busy I can come back around another time to finish my character sheet.

I agree that the mindsets of GMs need to change. Though, I'm not entirely sure how. That's something up for debate. If people know there's an issue, they can work to fix it.
// Bae'd to Kikpanther //

gimmepie

Age 24
Male
Australia
Seen 24 Minutes Ago
Posted 7 Hours Ago
20,620 posts
7.6 Years
I don't think that the mindset of GMs needs to change at all. When I started Gunpowder a bunch of people who had never RPd before in their lives, who had been missing for ages or who had not RP'd much before joined. As we wrote together we got closer and now those guys are the regulars that you're talking about (well Titans helped too but you know what I mean).

GreyBidoof

You used a Master Ball on the GreyBidoof!

Age 23
Male
Goldenrod City, Johto
Seen May 16th, 2019
Posted November 29th, 2018
774 posts
5.6 Years
I'm busy trying not to rip my keyboard in half because I just lost my 1k word response to the OP. It was nice, but I'm not writing that out again. :'(

All I'm going to say is, if anyone would like an example of how an RP community is built, look up an RP called Titans. It was made this previous year, by myself, and I was very new to the RPC at the time. Almost none of the users that signed up knew each other in the beginning, with a few exceptions. We had mods, newbies, old-timers, and lurkers. The RP didn't last very long, but I talk to almost every one of those people now somewhat regularly.

That's how it should be. People RP together, and build communities. People shouldn't be afraid to try new things, and they shouldn't keep people from trying them.



Friends for Infinity
RPT | Titans | Theme Song | Pair

"Doofin' it up."

art by the churiffic Infinite

Astronaut

space adventure

Non-binary
Seen 1 Day Ago
Posted 1 Day Ago
The RPC community seems small, but in reality I don't think it is. We have a lot of RPers that are unknown to the forum because they are afraid to or are unwilling to branch out of the one RP they found themselves comfortable in. That honestly doesn't work. That is not how a community should work. Intentional or not, I feel as though RPC is not as welcoming as it used to be. There is an air of elitism and clique-ishness here that says "if you're not in the group, you're not in anything". There is an implication in PC that if you don't come in with or have a group of friends to RP with then you're not going to have many chances to RP period. If you don't feel like this then tbh there's a 90% chance you're in one of these groups.

RPC is meant to be and should be open to all kinds of players no matter how good or bad they are. Yet, there doesn't seem to be a lot of encouragement. Very little RPs made for beginners, very little resources that help unskilled writers get better, and very little confidence boosting for RPers who don't think they can join an RP because they don't think they're good enough for it. There's also very little encouragement for people who join and make RPs for the same people over and over again to try and branch out and meet new RPers and RP with new
Firstly, it's the RPT, Theatre now, not Corner (;

Secondly, it worries me that you feel that this place is cliquey. We are a huge community of regulars, who spread out nicely over the ten or so RPs that are relatively active at any one time. You become part of a "group" by joining a RP. Anyone can join a RP, hence anyone can become part of a group. The only way I can think of that we might come across as cliquey at times is what I touched on earlier, about friends joining each other's RPs. Which is hard (and maybe not even good) to prohibit. You should be allowed to join any open RP and become part of that group, possibly with affiliated dedicated skype group. If this is not how things are, then we do have a problem to look at, indeed.

Apart from that, I agree with Johnny. Some people get along, others don't. Groups of friends isn't automatically a clique, as long as they are willing to let others get a shot at being part of them, I'd think?

Thirdly, we have the Starting Pad filled with guidance, hints and help, and a place to ask questions should there be any. On top of that, I think in general GMs have been very willing to help and guide newcomers (and even encourage them to join things) lately. Or actually, not even lately. Always. I might be blinded somehow, but I have never (in the last 5 years at least) felt like people can't get help here if they seem to need it. Remember how people almost literally jumped at a chance to greet a newcomer and provide help when they poked their face into the old Roleplay Discussion thread? c:

As for people who join and create RPs with the same RPers over and over again, that is really up to the RPers themselves. Which I also touched on in my previous post. We can't police the wants and preferences of people, only do our best to cater for as many wants and preferences as possible.


It might sound as if people are attackinf Kikpanther's opinions here o: that's surely not the intention. But it seems like a lot of people disagree with the OP's thoughts being existent problems. You're free to strike up a convo with me on Skype if you feel like elaborating on all this in another medium, Kik (: but I think many appreciate seeing the discussion here!

GreyBidoof

You used a Master Ball on the GreyBidoof!

Age 23
Male
Goldenrod City, Johto
Seen May 16th, 2019
Posted November 29th, 2018
774 posts
5.6 Years
I realized that in my short little summation I left out a few of the key points I wanted to make previously, before Chrome ate my response.

In the spirit of keeping things constructive, I think we should focus on what we can do to make the RPT better, as well as addressing any problems that may arise. My suggestions:

- To me, it sounds like people just need to talk more. More communication, more opportunities for discussion, etc. This includes private conversations as well.

- Second, I've heard divided opinions on this, but possibly someone experienced could run an "Intro to Roleplay" type RP, (as opposed to just writing it off as a beginner RP, which for some reason has a negative connotation for most) where people could learn about how we roleplay here in a less intimidating format, or just work on improving their writing skills. It could be open to everyone, that way people who already have experience could join with the intent of making connections with some newer faces. Just a thought.

- Just wanted to add that it's I believe it's sort of healthy for someone to bring up this kind of thing once in a while. It forces us to look at ways we can improve the RPT, and addresses possible concerns that people may have. Hopefully we never become a community where people are discouraged from sharing their constructive opinions.



Friends for Infinity
RPT | Titans | Theme Song | Pair

"Doofin' it up."

art by the churiffic Infinite

Winter

날 보러 와요
come see me

Age 22
Non-binary
Seen 1 Day Ago
Posted 1 Day Ago
8,226 posts
4.8 Years

i'm sorry i had to XD

NGL I empathise with the OP on a certain level. When I first came back to PC's roleplaying scene in 2015, I did feel a little left out and had that "the newbie" feeling stuck on my head. I mean, with stuff like Titans collab (in which almost everyone was involved in), people constantly discussing ideas about JPs, and veterans having many nostalgic trips, it was easy to feel excluded (not to mention timezones and other factors). But then I realized that it was me, where the issue lied. I wasn't being proactive myself. Sure, the RPT community may feel a little "clique-y" but I fail to see where there is an elitist atmosphere (and trust me, I know about elitism; the community was way worse in 2010/2011 *coughRPAcough* which was why I left). I was not shunned from the community despite only having signed up for one roleplay, nor did my freshness prove to be a problem with future roleplay signups. Honestly, when I began to participate more and become more active in getting to know the people, it felt as though I was already old friends with them and that I was merely reunited. It is human nature to group together and have some sort of common identity; there is no way to stop such a behaviour. As long as healthy relationships are being forged, I fail to see a problem. I think I can safely say that nobody here wants to feel excluded and nobody here wants to make others feel excluded, especially in a setting that thrives on inclusivity. [That being said, it's counterproductive waiting for someone to extend an invitation (which may also be seen as imposing) if one is reluctant on coming out of their shell.] To echo gimmepie, the RPT has been seeing a stream of new faces, and it doesn't hurt that we have a little alliance with the WoPC forums. :D

To directly answer the thread title, I'd say no. This isn't a place for beginners. There are no "beginners" here. Nobody is "more/less advanced"than anyone else here. To judge and compare one's writing with another, is an act of conceitedness. There is no way one can define solidly what a "beginner" or an "advanced" roleplayer is. A "beginner" roleplayer may have plenty of experience being a solo writer and merely wanted to taste the art of collaborative writing. And to categorize roleplays like that is to restrict creativity, as well as further divide the community. I've seen this kind of thing done before, in Marriland's roleplaying forums (iirc; they no longer have such a thing, I wonder why) and RoleplayerGuild. It's not really welcoming to say the least...

NGL, it's very easy to criticize something, but it's very hard to actually do something. I am guilty of that myself. If you want more "beginner RPs", why not make one yourself, rather than deflect responsibility onto others? I like to think that the current mod team is doing a fine job running the RPT, and thus, perhaps the question to be asked is, is there a demand for "beginner" roleplays? Food for thought.

There is an implication in PC that if you don't come in with or have a group of friends to RP with then you're not going to have many chances to RP period. If you don't feel like this then tbh there's a 90% chance you're in one of these groups.
I feel like this is highly loaded and bordering on false accusations/misinformation, but I'm sure it was unintentional. Also, I feel like I hardly see you around, and I think you're a person with lots of ideas and opinions that are worth sharing, so why not come visit us in our regular haunts and realize that perhaps you may have a few misconceptions about the RPT? :)

edit: TL;DR I don't see a real clique problem (but it is good to have such concerns) and anyone is free to join our skype chats and events. TBH I'm kinda sick of the regular faces like Foxrally (ew) and I want to meet new faces.

Foxrally

Age 21
Male
a Torterra's back
Seen 2 Days Ago
Posted October 10th, 2019
2,584 posts
6.7 Years
TBH I'm kinda sick of the regular faces like Foxrally (ew)
Paired to Ice and gimmepie
3DS Friend Code
0103-9972-1307
I make memes and other carcinogens

Retro Bug

Seen July 18th, 2016
Posted May 27th, 2016
1,176 posts
11.4 Years
I'm coming back to this thread to respond to a number of things but I wanted to say this:

I'm noticing a source of this clique IS the Skype chat and can we address this as well? If this is an RPC Chat, why isn't there an official RPC Skype public thread there where people can be asked to be added to the group? That seems a bit exclusionary to me… And if it can’t fit all the people maybe you should find a platform that actually does?

And just to nip the “it’s not an official official chat” in the bud, I’ve definitely seen current and previous mod dictate the chat saying what is or isn’t to be discussed and seeing the chat as an extension of the RPC.

Firstly, it's the RPT, Theatre now, not Corner (;
I'm sorry this comes off extremely condescending and passive-aggressive, and not at all necessary. I think you understood what she meant and nit-picky things like that during a serious conversation comes off as such, especially when it was called the RPC for a number of years. I'm hoping you didn't mean it like that. :/

"I'm ready for a nap..."
[YOU ARE CHALLENGED BY TIRED STUDENT RETRO BUG]
Pokémon:

The Meta Journey

Astronaut

space adventure

Non-binary
Seen 1 Day Ago
Posted 1 Day Ago
I'm sorry if I used the wrong smiley, I'm not the kind of person who makes fun of people who get things wrong d: I just found it a bit funny that Kik (and you!) kept saying RPC when it hasn't been called that in over half a year. But I still call Forum Games "Other Trivia" sometimes haha, old habits are difficult to get rid of.

@ skype
I think the RP people skype chat made this place a lot cozier and more fun, and to my knowledge we still haven't denied anybody who wanted to join? And not really hidden it either - there are tons of quotes in the quote threads around PC from that chat over the last year, for example. But the official vs unofficial is a discussion that resurfaces once in a while and now is maybe a good time to bring it up again c:

Retro Bug

Seen July 18th, 2016
Posted May 27th, 2016
1,176 posts
11.4 Years
Sorry for the OOC-ness, I know this isn't the root of the issue that was meant to be discussed in this thread i.e beginner roleplayers and instead took a very different route.


@ skype
I think the RP people skype chat made this place a lot cozier and more fun, and to my knowledge we still haven't denied anybody who wanted to join? And not really hidden it either - there are tons of quotes in the quote threads around PC from that chat over the last year, for example. But the official vs unofficial is a discussion that resurfaces once in a while and now is maybe a good time to bring it up again c:
I don't understand this...? Just because you posted a few obscure quotes and say everyone is welcome doesn't mean that everyone has access or is welcome or knows about it...? That's nice to say in theory, but when it comes to reality it still comes off exclusionary and assuming (to think everyone apparently knows about it). It seems like you guys are picking and choosing who comes in (Like how a new chat was started just hours ago, but I don't remember being invited into it. Hmm.).

"I'm ready for a nap..."
[YOU ARE CHALLENGED BY TIRED STUDENT RETRO BUG]
Pokémon:

The Meta Journey
Out Of My Mind
Seen June 11th, 2017
Posted February 25th, 2017
397 posts
6 Years
I don't think that there is elitism per say, but I do think that there is a bit of a clique problem. However I don't really think that is something that we are able to fix, some people just get along with other people better than others, and that's just part of society. And as for using Skype, I think that can make people think that we are being elitist in some way, not including others in our conversations. But that can be a tool to use within a group of roleplayers as well, so I don't think that using Skype as an example of elitism is a good one...

However I think that the major problem that this place does have is a lack of more basic roleplays. I've gone on to a couple other sites for short amounts of time looking around, and from what it seems like a lot of other sites do is they have different difficulties in terms of the roleplays. They have one section for easy roleplays that are a few sentences to a paragraph where beginners can kind of get a hang for it, or where experienced roleplayers can go to do a more relaxing less demanding story. Then they had intermediate and advanced, each having more length and quality expectation required in each category. Maybe that's something that we need to do, try to cater to those who want to have basic and fun roleplays, as well as longer ones with more expectations required.

I know that for one is something that bothers me when I roleplay with other people is simply quality of writing. Maybe that is elitist of me, but I have roleplayed with people in the past with little things about them that just seem to get irritated at them, whether is was grammar or a garish CSS or their personality in or outside of the RP. Maybe that's something that I need to work on as a person, be more accepting of others in general including their mistakes.

Nagi

Age 25
Female
home
Seen October 18th, 2016
Posted October 10th, 2016
997 posts
5.2 Years
so after reading through this thread and the issues it rises, i figure i give you my two cents as well. as is visible, most of us are rather defensive of the way things are at the moment. i do understand where OP is coming from, as i experienced a similar sense of exclusion that Anivia mentioned when i first (re)joined here. at the same time however, i was assimilated into this supposed 'clique' quite easily as well, and i think the same will go for any new RPers that join us in these forums, provided they speak up and participate.

there is one issue that i want to have cleared up regarding Skype, however.

currently, there is a chat called the ''RPBackstage'' - that i absolutely adore, might i add - but i can very easily see how the existence of this chat may turn away newcomers. the name, as well as the apparent moderation of the chat Retro Bug mentioned, seem to strongly suggest that this chat is an extension of the RPT as it is here. still, there has been a strong resistance from members of this chat to call it 'official', with seemingly only one underlying reason: to be able to 'select' who joins. isn't that exactly what elitism entails? several of us have had to meet certain criteria before being allowed in, and there has also been some hate for members that were added without meeting them.
so, what i'm trying to say is this: we need to either make the chat an official RPT chat, name it the RPBackstage, and put a join link somewhere visible on the forums so people can join freely (similar to UG chat)... OR we need to decide that the chat is purely a friend group, and carry on as it is now. if we choose the latter option however, i think we need to stop putting quotes of it in the quote thread, get rid of the moderator hierarchy in it entirely, and probably stop calling it the RPBackstage as well. honestly, this wouldn't even be that much of an issue for the RPT i don't think, as nearly all RPs in this forum i think have skype chats of their own anyway.
-
-
-
-
i'm so t i r e d

Strange

Age 20
Male
Everywhere at the same time
Seen September 27th, 2017
Posted September 9th, 2017
1,447 posts
4.5 Years
Umm, I don't understand why you think that beginners aren't feeling welcome. I mean, I get the whole issue with the chat thing, but other than that I don't see any problems with welcoming beginners. When I first joined I had zero roleplay experience, aside from a childish roelplay-esque forum when I was 10, and I was easily able to join and participate in a roleplay. And on top of that I felt welcomed and like I was a part of something because everyone in the roleplay helped me get better, to the point where now I'm a GM myself. And have roleplays who are open to everyone with no limits, which I've made a point to say in each one. I can see where some people might feel like they're being excluded by not being able to join certain roleplays, but honestly if they're going to exclude you from their roleplays, then you probably wouldn't have had a good time roleplaying with them anyway.

also a sidenote, because I feel like it needs to be said, Things like this:
If you don't feel like this then tbh there's a 90% chance you're in one of these groups.
come across very rude and insulting to the people reading it. Especially after bashing people for being in groups to begin with.

Circuit

Wiring your Circuits

Age 23
Male
Berlin
Seen July 28th, 2019
Posted July 17th, 2019
4,814 posts
11.7 Years
still, there has been a strong resistance from members of this chat to call it 'official', with seemingly only one underlying reason: to be able to 'select' who joins.
I wasn't going to join in with this, but I want to point something out regarding this, and only this.

I myself also do protest against become official, however my reason for this does not include the one you listed here. In fact, I would argue many people also do not feel this way. This is proven by the fact that a) anyone who asks gets in pretty much straight away b) people not even in the RPT have been added in at some point before. We aren't "selective" about who gets in, it's just we have to let them in if this isn't official.

The reason I myself don't want the chat to become official is because then the rules of the chat have to be hardened to mimic those of PC. And should that happen, a lot of the fun, banterous and quirky conversation we have would disappear.

Saying that we "select" who gets in suggests that we seclude people because we don't we don't want them around. The fact that there have been, and will in future be arguments and disputes in the RPT and RPB suggests otherwise. That statement is, in my opinion nearly entirely wrong, and sheds the entirety of those involved in the RPB in a very bad light.

Arsenic

Flying High

Age 23
Male
In the skies
Seen 3 Weeks Ago
Posted September 6th, 2019
3,196 posts
8.5 Years
Well this is a lot more serious discussion than I expected.....

The only thing I can really talk about is within the actual RPT, as I have never been to the skype chat.

The biggest problem I see that does scare off new comers is reservations. RPs get filled up by regulars in a matter of hours. More of a problem with closed spot RPs than open spot ones, but still something to be worked on in the future. Hard for beginners to break into the RP when it fills up within the time of a workday.

The only way to alleviate that I suppose would be some form of reserve restriction, such as only being able to reserve in two RPs at a time (any RPs you're currently in would count against this limit, so if you're currently accepted in two RPs, no reservations.)

Now there are probably better solutions if people put more thought into it than I have. Then again, maybe I'm overthinking a problem that isn't really there...

The second thing I have noticed that I think could scare away new comers is all the CSS use. There is so much of it it almost looks required, and I could see new users believing they don't have the skill to fit here.

Now this is less of a problem and more something that just needs to be noticed. It's not hard to get help with CSS here for posts. I, for example, simply asked the wonderful Foxrally for assistance with one for the Outbreak RP (I have no clue what the hell I'm doing with CSS for the most part) and had one back real quick.

The help is there for those who need it, just keep in the back of your minds that a giant row of very professional CSS might frighten off some new comers.


As for the Skype chat situation, I don't know if it would help, but I would be more than happy to host a Discord channel to use as a public chat. Doesn't require an account or any downloads so it might be easier for a wider range of people to join. It also has much better organizational tools so we could make sub-channels for events, specific RPs or what ever else is needed.

Ice

Seen 3 Weeks Ago
Posted February 25th, 2019
3,451 posts
5.3 Years
I'm going to leave as much as the skype stuff out of it, as that's something that we as mods need to discuss that isn't in a thread on PC.

On the starting question about PC being for beginners, I'm going to echo previous statements. This place should be as much for 'beginners' as for people that have been RPing longer, and like to do so in a longer post format. There have been talks of starting a beginners RP, but I personally feel that labelling an RP as beginner would create elitism that wasn't present before. Once you start dividing people up in 'beginner', and 'advanced', you start shaping people up into classes, and that should be avoided. Even if we take out that factor, people that don't see themselves as beginners might just want to join an RP because of an interesting setting, and the label discourages that. The criticism of PTA is something I'm not really able to comment on, considering that has been hugely inactive ever since I became aware of it. If you, or anyone else for that matter, feels like PC needs an RP with a similar premise that attracts new faces, get in contact! We'll be able to help, if there is even any help needed.

The RPT isn't small for sure. I'm counting around 50 or so active to semi-active people. New RPs pop-up every once in a while, with there almost always being something pokemon-related to join, and I feel like it facilitates for new people too. Every RP I've been in so far bar one has introduced new people that I didn't know before. I myself only become active here in April of '15, by just signing up for something that looked interesting. I've only started to develop my interest in writing at that same point, so I basically joined as someone without experience. I've made some comments in passing to the regulars here, but outside of that, I didn't interact with people here. I did get picked up really quickly, allowing me to meet new people here, and start becoming an active regular. I think this is the optimal way to join, just join an RP and get dragged in with the people you're RPing with. If there has been an atmosphere of elitism here, it must have developed since I joined, because there was no such thing holding me back from getting to know these people. The thing is that I don't notice these trends in the RPs I'm in, as they've all been welcoming to new people, and the players with that. In my experience people were generally happy to facilitate any help people needed, as in help writing, coming up with plots, wanting CSS but not being able to make it (That darn CSS). As a GM I've also noticed that I got some PMs asking me questions about joining my RPs from people with no experience, and I myself have been doing as much as possible to get people to join, and I know some other GMs do so to. One thing I've noticed I've been getting messages about, though, is people wondering if an RP is still accepting, and I suspect that if there are people willing to ask, there are enough that have the same confusion and are not willing to ask. Something that might maybe signify that might help in that situation.

For resources for starting players, we have a starters pad. I think that name would signal its use fairly well, haha. It has a variety of guides, explains all the concepts that RPing holds, and links to relevant threads. We've also got the template thread for CSS should people be worried about fancying their posts up.

The notion that RPs are made for a certain group seems a bit crazy to me. There is indeed a group that seems to join each others RPs a lot, but in honesty, it's the group of 40~ active RPers that are in multiple RPs at the same time, and dedicate a lot of the time to this section, so a lot of RPs will have a lot of returning faces. Even RPs not made by people that are part of the active regulars here have multiple of these people in them, so I think it's more a volume thing. A lot of RPs here don't have a player cap, so the fact that people join each other's RPs doesn't create a problem there. People will flock to RPs they find interesting, and it helps if people they know are in it/GM it. But, generally, RPs with settings they are interested in are still joined, and there is without doubt room made for newer people to join in. As I said, literally every single RP I've been in, I've RPed with at least one new person, but most of the times it's more than that.

I feel like I mistyped something terribly, or forgot to make a point in this post, but I'm getting a bit tired, so let's just hope that I haven't, haha.

Jauntier

Where was your antennas again?

Male
USA
Seen April 6th, 2018
Posted December 23rd, 2017
661 posts
4.3 Years
I'm not exactly "new" to the community. I'm just not interested in much of the site, but when I see something I think may be interesting, I will throw in my two cents.

This is the input of someone who is rather distant to these particular supposed issues mentioned in here. Do not consider it any more "objective" as it is my personal reflection in passing:

I think the answer is yes it is and yes it should be. However, I don't think PC likes to behave like a space for beginner RPers. Instead, we have a lot of advanced RPs that intimidate our less skilled members and make it hard for them to improve and branch out. The beginner RPs that we DO have are either poorly made so no one wants to join them, die off quickly, are not properly advertised as such, or act as a black hole where none of the beginner RPers on PC escape (*coughcough*PTA*coughcough*).
If someone makes a roleplay that someone else feels intimidated by because it is well-written, organized, and its concept is adventurous in a number of aspects, that is not the fault of the GM. You call the RP "advanced." Then clearly, it is not for "beginners" by your logic. In truth, the only divide someone can possibly claim between something that is an "advanced" story and something that is novice is whether or not the person who seeks to apply understands the plot and thinks they can keep up with what they perceive are the demands of the game/story. As for "beginner" rps, roleplays that you may think are not as well planned, well, that comes with the territory of inexperience. So what? You don't get the experience without trying your hand at it yourself. This is the step in "branching out". When considering a roleplay to join, you should also look at the kinds of people who join. Their character applications oftentimes give a good indicator of their writing skill and certain preferences. If you think they are on par with yours, then that's a good place to start. If you want to feel challenged or want to learn from someone you think has an aspect of writing that is more developed than yours, the option to join is there, as well as privately getting in touch with them and making a writing peer of them. It's a community: reach out.

If someone can't make a RP that garners interest for whatever reason, they should hold off and join another RP to whet the appetite. I personally don't recommend people seek out guides on a role-play forum on how to write because with my experience in other places it's the blind leading the blind, but someone can look at the original post of a successful or active roleplay and glean elements from there to compare with what they attempted, and hopefully learn from the differences.

The RPC community seems small, but in reality I don't think it is. We have a lot of RPers that are unknown to the forum because they are afraid to or are unwilling to branch out of the one RP they found themselves comfortable in. That honestly doesn't work. That is not how a community should work. Intentional or not, I feel as though RPC is not as welcoming as it used to be. There is an air of elitism and clique-ishness here that says "if you're not in the group, you're not in anything". There is an implication in PC that if you don't come in with or have a group of friends to RP with then you're not going to have many chances to RP period. If you don't feel like this then tbh there's a 90% chance you're in one of these groups.
If someone feels afraid or even worse--unwilling to branch out, it's their prerogative. Take the initiative yourself to branch out, or stay stagnant, finding blame in everything else but one's own unwillingness to attempt or settle. That's how I see it typically goes.

I don't sense elitism or cliques. I sense friendships and affinities, and people are naturally more inclined to associate with friends more than other users. Whose fault is that? If there's a clique, find one you fit into. If there are "elites" and you're bothered that you aren't "elite" at role-playing, then it sounds like someone wants to get in on an exclusive crowd, or go on a witch hunt to seek out and tear down the bourgeoisie they aren't a part of. True elitism in an rp group is shunning or actively shaming people however they can, only letting in their designated crowd of people while they make it a point to call themselves superior, or imply you are inferior with some shady tactics or outright blatancy to prevent the plebians from trickling in. Being good at writing amidst other good writers is not elitism. People who aren't confident in themselves to join a group that would otherwise take them in should they give it a shot should not call the people they put on a pedestal elites.

And, tbh, I am not that 90% statistic. That's poor rhetoric, jumping the gun by punctuating your argument with the accusation that anyone who may possibly disagree with you somehow doesn't count, as per your bogus generalization. As for me, I'm not an rp activist here. I don't care enough to be in something like a clique, especially not on some subforum for pretending to be a Pokemon Trainer, for instance.

RPC is meant to be and should be open to all kinds of players no matter how good or bad they are. Yet, there doesn't seem to be a lot of encouragement. Very little RPs made for beginners, very little resources that help unskilled writers get better, and very little confidence boosting for RPers who don't think they can join an RP because they don't think they're good enough for it. There's also very little encouragement for people who join and make RPs for the same people over and over again to try and branch out and meet new RPers and RP with new people.
A Pokemon forum with a role-play section has no obligation to coddle people with an assortment of writing guides for beginners. Someone wants to join a roleplay but they can't write well and want to learn how to write better? Well, if it isn't a learning disability preventing them, I'm sure paying attention in English class can help with how to improve one's writing skill. I'm sure someone can Google "how to write well" and get just as many expert journals from English professors, child-oriented worksheets from elementary school teachers, peer-level advice--helpful or just as uninformed--on public "answer" feedback forums like YahooAnswers or a separate RP site that pulls up in the search engine results.

Look, I'm just going to say right now, the only person who can boost their own confidence is oneself. Yes, there are boosters and slights in the form of other people, but if you don't have the drive to do it, or you have such fragile sensibilities, then how unfortunate. The encouragement you get on a role-play forum is in joining a role-play and interacting with the other participants, those whom you feel like you may have a level of understanding with, or whom you may admire. If you can't encourage yourself to jump in, it shouldn't be everyone else's duty to seek you out and swaddle the newborn. That's what introduction threads are for, that's your initiation to the community. That's your praise for your mere presence. Now, go out and connect. Be sociable on this text-based medium.

There is a distinction on the RPT that sets apart beginner style RPs from that of advanced RPs. It may not be noticed by many, but its there. Its not necessarily a barrier of skill and length, but also how attractive the RPs can appear to a person just getting into the writing scene. Beginners will not post in 'advanced' RPs, even if their grammar and writing style are well enough to get by.
Is that a negative point that a beginner will join what they prefer as "attractive"? Is it a negative point that beginners will not post in something they consider "advanced", and consequently, would post in something that could be on par, with, say, an "intermediate" (how is this even determined) or a "beginner" rp?

I thought the argument with your bae was that this forum isn't so friendly to beginners. If a beginner is not joining an advanced rp, then they are joining something more fitting to beginners. Then that's not a problem. Their desire for something lesser and creating/joining it solves itself.

Now, I agree that there is a clique, though this isn't necessarily a bad thing. A lot of time, I see a RP mentioned in the skype group targeted towards the GMs particular group of friends. Its mentioned there, and as soon as its posted, the skype chat is blown up with the news that its been accepted and the friends of the GM flock into RESERVE their spot.

This stops a lot of beginners from getting the chance to get in the RP when there is limited spots. Hell, when there isn't, the fact that a large group whom have obviously RPed together for awhile coming into a thread can intimidate literally anyone. I wouldn't really say this is a problem in its entirety, but it is a thing that has been happening a lot recently and needs to be addressed.
I agree with the point that reserves with limited spots are a waste of time. I was surprised entering this forum that people here reserved and were allowed to. When I make a roleplay (I've yet to make one here and am hesitant for reasons not specific to this forum), I do not allow reserves. The issue with reserves is that people put in a reserve, and they forget about it, or procrastinate. Maybe they weren't really too sold on the rp, but they thought they'd get the inspiration to post a character later, and they at least would have a spot saved to make sure, whenever they get around to it. And then they don't kick their rear in gear until there's a notice that the reserve deadline has or will be met very soon, and then they throw something together last minute. Or worse, they rear their ugly head in to complain or seek pity. And GMs who are desperate for their rp to start with a full cast may even extend that reserve because they are hopeful, and that further denies entry from other potential participants in a space that would have otherwise been cleared up.

None of this would happen if people just post their finished applications when they have the time to. I, as a GM, don't like waiting on people and expecting them to keep their word and come around before my reserve deadline. I, as a potential applicant, don't care to see a full list of reserves in what appears to be limited spots, when I can have my application filled out in the same day of being completely sure of wanting to join.

But being intimidated to a role-play because a lot of people have already signed up is no one else's fault but the person feeling insecure. There are people who join late in the game. That is no excuse.

This is the main problem caused by it. I dare you to go through the RPs on this forum. See who's in them. How many times did you see the exact same names in several? How many times did you see someone newer to the forum?
This is a niche subforum. You will have a certain number of people who are active and join a number of role-plays, some at the same time. Is it their fault of their interest? If you eliminate reserves, those names may very well still be there. What would be the alternative in that case, that they not be so active so as to let other people in?

I agree that the mindsets of GMs need to change. Though, I'm not entirely sure how. That's something up for debate. If people know there's an issue, they can work to fix it.
How someone wants to operate their own creation is their issue and right. We as players are free to leave a role-play if we do not like how it is or how we are being handled. We as players are also free to make our own role-play, if we want to show those other suckers how things are run right.

This should not be an issue of policing attitudes on a forum that others can easily dismiss by avoiding whom they perceive to be the offenders, or more productively, taking the initiative to be this newbie activist by making their own inclusive role-play.

Thanks for reading. I'm sure many of my points have been previously shared, but I'm not going to check. If I'm in agreement with you, good.

Kikpanther

Not a beginner that's for sure

Female
Louisiana
Seen June 26th, 2018
Posted June 24th, 2018
671 posts
10.7 Years
So this thread got me a lot of notifications so--happy day!--people actually care. At least a little bit. I was partially afraid no one would respond, but you guys proved me wrong. I am a bit disappointed in the direction the discussion went, however. I do like that we're discussing this whole clique issue but it was not the point of this thread, more so the point of it. The fact that it became such a big topic makes me think that I may have hit a sore spot in the aforementioned clique, but I think all of that can be solved while making PC a better place for beginners. Also I'd like to apologize for taking so long to respond. I have a lot of responsibilities (that I'm currently ignoring to respond to this) that I have to fulfill.

I'm just going to go through and respond to each of these. If a post goes over what I already answered (or what I think I already answered) I'm not going to mention it here.

Okay!

I'm inclined to disagree. Whilst I can see why some of us come of a bit cliquey since we talk a lot on Skype there's plenty of RPs here that are perfectly open to people who are newer to roleplaying and I know that the majority of us who GM do our best to help beginners rather than chase them out. In fact, there's actually been quite a few newer RPers/GMs come into the RPT. Off the top of my head LinearAxel, JohnnyMustang, Merlin, Milotic and desinishon are all newer to the corner and they aren't the only ones.

I guess, aside from some of us being really close friends, I just don't see where you're coming from at all. I think that the RPT has become a lot less elitist in recent years and I know for a fact that most of us are thrilled to see new faces around here.
While it is nice that all of the RPs made are open to everyone, that doesn't take away from the fact that Advanced RPs are often intimidating to beginner RPers. Especially if there's nothing written in the OP to encourage them. And I never said that the RPs prevent people from coming into the RPT. I don't doubt we have new people coming in often, Pokemon is a popular topic, same would be true for RPing. The other subjects we have here are also great for attracting other people. It's the fact that we have a huge lack of RPs that less skilled players are comfortable joining or feel welcome to join. PTA seems to be the only one other than RPs made by other beginners that aren't joined because they usually aren't made well (though that can also be improved by making RPC more beginner-friendly). I think it's also important to know that someone new to the forums is not necessarily going to be a beginner RPer.

I'd also like to comment that being less elitist now than in the past doesn't mean the problem is fixed. Just improved.

I'm sorry you feel this way. I do agree with you to a point that it can be very intimidating for new RPers to branch out and RP like the way they want to. But I can say that I used to be one of the new members, and still am really, and can say that I really enjoy it here. One just has to feel confident in their writing but be open to feedback. I can say that I really appreciate several members who have been GMs or just members in a skype chat for giving me advice on my writing. My first ever post was absolute trash when i made it, but I like to think I have made progress and I thank the people I've RP'ed with for being the reason. Something as simple as reading their posts has been a major reason for my writing getting steadily better.

I don't get the clique vibe at all. I get more of the "long time members who talk with each other a lot and have become friends" vibe. I know that if i asked for help, more than enough members here in the RP section would be happy to help.

As fort those who aren't as good at RP'ing, I feel I can say on behalf of the RP community, and for sure myself, that we would be happy to help them out in their writing. I understand feeling scared or nervous about asking for help from such good writers but we are all extremely nice and want this community to be great.

Anyways I again am sorry that you feel this way. If there is anything I can do to help, reach out to me!

That goes for any member that feels their writing is not as good. No one should feel bad about their writing. It's one of the greatest stress relievers I've found and a lot of fun to immerse yourself in your own and other's stories! :)
I'm glad you're having such a great time in the RPC, but anecdotal evidence is only that. Anecdotal. It doesn't prove an argument wrong unless you have substantial evidence.

Unfortunately, not everyone is like you. There are a lot of people who aren't confident enough to try and join an RP regardless of their skill level and there are less people who are confident enough to ask for help. I've noticed (and I think this is true) that writing is a lot like drawing. If you don't think you've produced something outstanding, you're not too excited about showing others. This is especially true when you're with people you perceive as being much better than you. Not everyone, of course, but most people feel this way. It's hard to break in when you don't think you're good enough to take that big leap into an RP that might be at a higher level that you are. This is even more true if you think that you'll be rejected based on your skill and there's nothing to tell you that's not the case.

I'd also like to say that the friendship asset is a big part of this too. If you don't come into PC with friends and you aren't the type to just talk to someone and try to form a relationship, then it gets a bit harder to really break into the community. There is nothing here that encourages new or old members to meet new RPers and make new friends. That is, unless you're brave enough to join a more advanced RP where they have Skype chats. I will say that Skype improves the making friends and breaking out issue a lot. You get to talk to new people, discuss your RP, and hopefully build confidence. However, again, that is only if you're already brave enough to join an RP that has a Skype chat which is most usually the advanced RPs. The RPT Skype Chat doesn't require this but is not a public space so it doesn't do any justice. Something like a welcome thread of an open RPT chat would improve the meeting people issue.

I am going to be entirely honest. I agree with Kikpanther in many aspects of their post, though I believe they did word some things rather awkwardly looking back on it.

There is a distinction on the RPT that sets apart beginner style RPs from that of advanced RPs. It may not be noticed by many, but its there. Its not necessarily a barrier of skill and length, but also how attractive the RPs can appear to a person just getting into the writing scene. Beginners will not post in 'advanced' RPs, even if their grammar and writing style are well enough to get by.

...

Now, I agree that there is a clique, though this isn't necessarily a bad thing. A lot of time, I see a RP mentioned in the skype group targeted towards the GMs particular group of friends. Its mentioned there, and as soon as its posted, the skype chat is blown up with the news that its been accepted and the friends of the GM flock into RESERVE their spot.

This stops a lot of beginners from getting the chance to get in the RP when there is limited spots. Hell, when there isn't, the fact that a large group whom have obviously RPed together for awhile coming into a thread can intimidate literally anyone. I wouldn't really say this is a problem in its entirety, but it is a thing that has been happening a lot recently and needs to be addressed.
I'm going to be entirely honest and say that's totally your fault? I told you I didn't like the way the OP sounded and sent it to you to proofread and you said it was fine. XD

But onto the rest of the post... I figure I should try and define what an Advanced RP and what a Beginner RP is in case anyone was confused by that or just didn't understand me.

Advanced RP: An RP for advanced roleplayers. These RPs expect high-quality character creation, grammar, writing technique, and all that good stuff. Some Advanced RPs have word counts and some don't, either way, they expect lengthy replies from the players (usually more than one or two paragraphs). There are also many Advanced RPs (though it is more common in Advanced RP Forums) that dictate the type of faceclaim (or picture) is required for a character and if they are required. Advanced RPs generally have well thought out/deep plotlines and are generally more aesthetically pleasing than Advanced RPs. Advanced RP Forums are usually very strict when it comes to these factors.

Beginner RP: An RP for beginner roleplayers. These RPs do not expect high-quality anything from the RPer. The requirements are generally that whatever is written is readable for the GM and that they like the SU. Posts can be any length they want to be though they are generally a paragraph or less. Plotlines in beginner RPs are not usually as well developed, are much shorter than an Advanced RP, or have a never-ending style kind of like PTA. A lot of beginner RPs, but not all of them, have unlimited spots.

Intermediate RP: An RP for intermediate roleplayers. Not advanced and not beginner. Generally have more Advanced leanings than Beginner does.


As you probably already know, RPC is not a forum that has requirements that would denote it as an Advanced RP setting. It is very much a Beginner Forum that allows users to make Beginner to Advanced RPs. I also decided to add in the Intermediate option since it does exist but isn't as common as the other two I don't think. Most of the RPs we have here have Intermediate to Advanced leanings rather than Beginner. Now I'm not saying that the Advanced RPs we do have are in any way as strict as some of the characteristics I've listed for the Advanced RP category. This goes back to my mention in the post that the Corner tries to be an Advanced RP forum more than it does try to be a Beginner Forum. In truth, if we did a lot of comparisons and debating, we might be closer to Intermediate, but that doesn't take away from the fact that our Beginner RP experience is pretty lacking. Like I said before, Intermediate or Advanced, I don't think we give the encouragement to Beginner RPers like we should.

Going on to Quest's next point, I'd also like to say that having cliques are not necessarily a bad thing. People have friends, friends form groups, cliques naturally happen. It's impossible to escape cliques. It's when cliques dominate social spheres (or in this case, dominate RPs) that it becomes a problem.

Like I said before, the RPT Chat is a great place for people to get together to make friends and collaborate, but it doesn't work if it isn't public. As a private chat (or invite only, since people can get into the chat if they're invited in) it enhances the clique issue. Maybe the Corner has less of a clique vibe when you don't know the Chat exists, but when you do know that it exists I think you can see it creates a problem. I think the biggest one is that the majorities of RPs here are thought up in and discussed within the Chat. The RPs discussed there are usually made for the people in the Chat to join. This creates the flocking to reserve as Quest says.

I think we can all see that the majority of the RPs here are made and joined by the same people. Whether it be because of cliques or because of intimidated beginners, that has to be a sign of a problem, right?

I don't have time to write a lengthy response right now, but just addressing one of Quest's points: what do you suggest we do about the "flocking to reserve" thing, then? I don't see how we could forbid friends to RP together, and I also don't think it sounds reasonable to try and do that. However, as a GM myself, I recognize the scenario and have been wanting to get more new faces in. I think rather it's up to the GM what people to let in to the RP than something we need to officially regulate though? People here are responsible. People can be responsible GMs. Or maybe that's what you were trying to get at; the mindset of GMs needs to change?
Eliminating or changing the rules of reserves would be a pretty instant fix for this. Getting rid of reserves automatically makes signing up a fair game. You can even improve that by not auto-accepting the first finished SU, but judging it by its quality, concept, and/or the enthusiasm and willingness of the RPer.

And I don't mean to say we need to regulate who gets to be in and who doesn't get to be in RPs. Like I said before, we need to make PC more accepting to beginner RPers. That can be through the encouragement for the generation of more Beginner RPs made specifically for, or are more open to , beginner RPers. I think it'd be especially helpful if these Beginner RPs were made by advanced RPers so they can help beginner Rpers improve their skills. More stickied threads about better character creation and improving ones writing will help. A welcome thread or an open RPT Chat will also help. There are a lot of ways we can improve the situation, an open discussion can help us with generating ideas.

I'm busy trying not to rip my keyboard in half because I just lost my 1k word response to the OP. It was nice, but I'm not writing that out again. :'(

All I'm going to say is, if anyone would like an example of how an RP community is built, look up an RP called Titans. It was made this previous year, by myself, and I was very new to the RPC at the time. Almost none of the users that signed up knew each other in the beginning, with a few exceptions. We had mods, newbies, old-timers, and lurkers. The RP didn't last very long, but I talk to almost every one of those people now somewhat regularly.

That's how it should be. People RP together, and build communities. People shouldn't be afraid to try new things, and they shouldn't keep people from trying them.
Sorry to hear that Bidoof! =/ I have completely lost all drive on entire threads because of things like that. If you're on Firefox there is (or at least, was when I was using FF) a plugin called Lazarus that saves your writing for you so you don't lose it if your page gets deleted somehow. :)

I also think what you put up is/was a great example. We need more of that here at PC. I think the key to your example is that ll of the players were new or didn't know each other. We barely have that in the RPT anymore. Like I said before, the majority of RPs here are made by the same people and played in by the same people. There is hardly any variety and opportunity for new people to meet new people. People shouldn't be afraid to try new things and meet new people, but they are and we should make RPC a more encouraging place to make more cases like Titans.


....

Now to the beginners RP part; If a beginners RP is poorly made then that's the GM's fault. What do you mean by properly advertised?



How do you know exactly, when an RPer is unknown to the forum?

About the elitism and clique: You said it yourself, this isn't a small community; As in real life, elitism and clique-ishness are common. Sometimes, some people get along better with a specific group, personalities varies vastly. This happens in every section of PC. It also happens in every little part of the world. This is no one's fault and it is not something to be fixed.

....

Although I do agree with the fact that there are very little resources to help unskilled writers, but I think everyone knows this. If you raised all these questions, you might have some thoughts about it and I would like to hear them.


....
I have to be honest, I'm not entirely sure I understand your points here? It mostly seems like your saying "okay so there's a problem, problems happen all of the time, so what?" which frankly doesn't make sense to me. If you see that here is a problem or that something can be improved why wouldn't you improve it?

But going on to what you said...

Properly advertise meaning if someone made a beginner RPs for beginners they didn't say it was a beginner RP. Also, I don't know every single person on PC but there are a lot of RPers within PTA that I have seen only within PTA. And I doubt the couple of people who post in and make threads/RPs are the only people that visit the RPC.

Also, your point about clique-ishness and elitism being everywhere isn't a very good point? There are many organizations that try and eliminate cliques or grouping completely so people aren't alienated or bullied as a result. My college has restrictions to eliminate cliques so? And like I said before, nothing is wrong with having friends. It's when that group begins to dominate things is when it becomes a problem.

I've already addressed some of my thoughts on this in this posts and I think improving RPC. The parts of your post I didn't quote has already been answered somewhere else in here.


....

Thirdly, we have the Starting Pad filled with guidance, hints and help, and a place to ask questions should there be any. On top of that, I think in general GMs have been very willing to help and guide newcomers (and even encourage them to join things) lately. Or actually, not even lately. Always. I might be blinded somehow, but I have never (in the last 5 years at least) felt like people can't get help here if they seem to need it. Remember how people almost literally jumped at a chance to greet a newcomer and provide help when they poked their face into the old Roleplay Discussion thread? c:

As for people who join and create RPs with the same RPers over and over again, that is really up to the RPers themselves. Which I also touched on in my previous post. We can't police the wants and preferences of people, only do our best to cater for as many wants and preferences as possible.


....
In all honestly, I totally forgot about The Starting Pad. Though now that I am remembering it, I think that it is a bit old. While the information in there is helpful I think a lot of it could use some nice updating (I'm sure the people who made old threads in there have learned something new) so the information is more up to date or more detailed and fleshed out. It could also use more of a variety of topics to help people who have unexpected questions. I think some of the subjects of the threads here are evidence that we need more guides and information.

And I remember the Roleplay Discussion thread, but the Roleplay Discussion thread doesn't exist anymore so there isn't nearly the amount of asking and jumping like there used to be.

Sure making RPs for friends is up to the players, but that doesn't make it less of a problem. As I'm saying for I'm sure the third time now, there's nothing wrong with having friends. You can RP with just your friends if you want to. People do that for many reasons. They aren't confident enough to RP with strangers, they don't want to RP with other people, or maybe even time constraints. I for one have started only joining RPs GMed by friends because my time schedule makes it hard for me to post and they'll be much more forgiving about my inactivity than someone I don't know that well.

The problem comes when the vast majority of RPs available are RPs made just for friends. This comes back to my earlier point that if you don't come in with friends, you don't have many places to go. I've already talked a bit about ways to fix this up top.

I realized that in my short little summation I left out a few of the key points I wanted to make previously, before Chrome ate my response.

In the spirit of keeping things constructive, I think we should focus on what we can do to make the RPT better, as well as addressing any problems that may arise. My suggestions:

- To me, it sounds like people just need to talk more. More communication, more opportunities for discussion, etc. This includes private conversations as well.

- Second, I've heard divided opinions on this, but possibly someone experienced could run an "Intro to Roleplay" type RP, (as opposed to just writing it off as a beginner RP, which for some reason has a negative connotation for most) where people could learn about how we roleplay here in a less intimidating format, or just work on improving their writing skills. It could be open to everyone, that way people who already have experience could join with the intent of making connections with some newer faces. Just a thought.

- Just wanted to add that it's I believe it's sort of healthy for someone to bring up this kind of thing once in a while. It forces us to look at ways we can improve the RPT, and addresses possible concerns that people may have. Hopefully we never become a community where people are discouraged from sharing their constructive opinions.
Just quoting this here to show that this is a good example of what I'm talking about. I think these are good suggestions towards improvement and hopefully we can expand on these when the conversation continues in whatever format.

Though I'm not totally sure what you mean by "Intro to RPing". Do you mean an RP that works as a tutorial or a guide?


i'm sorry i had to XD

NGL I empathise with the OP on a certain level. When I first came back to PC's roleplaying scene in 2015, I did feel a little left out and had that "the newbie" feeling stuck on my head. I mean, with stuff like Titans collab (in which almost everyone was involved in), people constantly discussing ideas about JPs, and veterans having many nostalgic trips, it was easy to feel excluded (not to mention timezones and other factors). But then I realized that it was me, where the issue lied. I wasn't being proactive myself. Sure, the RPT community may feel a little "clique-y" but I fail to see where there is an elitist atmosphere (and trust me, I know about elitism; the community was way worse in 2010/2011 *coughRPAcough* which was why I left). I was not shunned from the community despite only having signed up for one roleplay, nor did my freshness prove to be a problem with future roleplay signups. Honestly, when I began to participate more and become more active in getting to know the people, it felt as though I was already old friends with them and that I was merely reunited. It is human nature to group together and have some sort of common identity; there is no way to stop such a behaviour. As long as healthy relationships are being forged, I fail to see a problem. I think I can safely say that nobody here wants to feel excluded and nobody here wants to make others feel excluded, especially in a setting that thrives on inclusivity. [That being said, it's counterproductive waiting for someone to extend an invitation (which may also be seen as imposing) if one is reluctant on coming out of their shell.] To echo gimmepie, the RPT has been seeing a stream of new faces, and it doesn't hurt that we have a little alliance with the WoPC forums. :D

To directly answer the thread title, I'd say no. This isn't a place for beginners. There are no "beginners" here. Nobody is "more/less advanced"than anyone else here. To judge and compare one's writing with another, is an act of conceitedness. There is no way one can define solidly what a "beginner" or an "advanced" roleplayer is. A "beginner" roleplayer may have plenty of experience being a solo writer and merely wanted to taste the art of collaborative writing. And to categorize roleplays like that is to restrict creativity, as well as further divide the community. I've seen this kind of thing done before, in Marriland's roleplaying forums (iirc; they no longer have such a thing, I wonder why) and RoleplayerGuild. It's not really welcoming to say the least...

NGL, it's very easy to criticize something, but it's very hard to actually do something. I am guilty of that myself. If you want more "beginner RPs", why not make one yourself, rather than deflect responsibility onto others? I like to think that the current mod team is doing a fine job running the RPT, and thus, perhaps the question to be asked is, is there a demand for "beginner" roleplays? Food for thought.


I feel like this is highly loaded and bordering on false accusations/misinformation, but I'm sure it was unintentional. Also, I feel like I hardly see you around, and I think you're a person with lots of ideas and opinions that are worth sharing, so why not come visit us in our regular haunts and realize that perhaps you may have a few misconceptions about the RPT? :)

edit: TL;DR I don't see a real clique problem (but it is good to have such concerns) and anyone is free to join our skype chats and events. TBH I'm kinda sick of the regular faces like Foxrally (ew) and I want to meet new faces.
Again, I'm going to say anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but you make a good point about you having to take the first step in integrating. However, as you may know this isn't an easy step. I'm not saying we have a problem because that step isn't totally eliminated for new people who come into the forums. There is obviously a level of personal responsibility. I think the problem is is that the RPC lacks that encouragement that gives new RPers the extra confidence to take that step.

I'm going to have to disagree with your second point, though. I don't think acknowledging someone as "beginner" or "advanced" is necessarily a sign of elitism or restricting of creativity. I don't think it's hard to tell where someone is in terms of skill level in creative writing based on what they put down on paper. Some people are more skilled than others in all aspects, that's totally unavoidable. It becomes elitist if you treat someone differently, have preconceived notions about them, or shun someone because of their skill level. And I'm not saying anyone here does that, it's just an example. Beginner RPer, while it also applies to people who are new to RPing, is mostly a judgment of skill level than anything. And, of course, skills can always be improved with help and willingness. As for the creativity comment I don't think saying an RP is Advanced or Beginner stumps creativity. While I did put up definitions for Beginner and Advanced above, they are in no way the rule. You can easily make what could be considered an Advanced RP but intended for Beginner audiences which is what I personally prefer, tbh.

I also don't understand the deflecting comment? What am I deflecting? I haven't been accused of anything? Aren't I trying to do something now by bringing up this issue and trying to facilitate discussion? If I had just said "PC sucks and this is why" and ended it at that okay. But I stated a problem and I opened the floor up to possibilities on how to fix it. As for making an Beginner RP myself, I do have a PMD RP in the works (almost done to, though someone beat me to it!) that was made with a beginner audience in mind. Though I will admit it was a bit muddled because I did also end up making it for friends who desperately needed to RP (though they have to compete just as everyone else does). The new PMD RP might help that a little, but...? I don't know, it really depends on interest and I have some backup plans for everyone involved just in case. Other than that I had an idea for a never-ending style Beginner RP to replace PTA since it seems like it's struggling a bit to survive. Though I don't think that what I'm doing entirely matters since I've taken the first step to make this a community mission. I can't fix the problems in RPC by myself. It takes everyone to do that.

As for not being around much. I have been around the forum since Atlantis Arising (with a three month hiatus in between). I just only come on to post in the RPs I'm in (mostly in JP format tbh) rather than post around the forum since I don't really have enough to say to make a big thread about it. That and I don't get the community vibe from PC at all. I know things have been changed and improved since then, but I don't get the same bustling sphere that I got during the times of Atlantis so I don't see many reasons to come on. The emphasis on Skype chats, I think, have made the place seem more empty. I know people make threads, but with the existence of the entire RPT Chat they seem more like attempts to keep the "main forum" from dying than anything. (Just an opinion, though. Not really anything that has to do with this thread). Other than that, I also have friends on PC that I talk to on Skype that only make their appearances for posts as well. And that whole "only joining friends RPs" thing I talked about before is a factor too.

I used to be apart of the RPT Chat but I wasn't too big of a fan of the discussions there so I left. Maybe if it was made into a true RPT Chat by going public I'd try to join again, but it wasn't my cup of tea. I might have been suffering from that not-getting-involved syndrome that you had but it's done and I'm not upset about it.

Also how could you get tired of something this cute????

I don't think that there is elitism per say, but I do think that there is a bit of a clique problem. However I don't really think that is something that we are able to fix, some people just get along with other people better than others, and that's just part of society. And as for using Skype, I think that can make people think that we are being elitist in some way, not including others in our conversations. But that can be a tool to use within a group of roleplayers as well, so I don't think that using Skype as an example of elitism is a good one...

However I think that the major problem that this place does have is a lack of more basic roleplays. I've gone on to a couple other sites for short amounts of time looking around, and from what it seems like a lot of other sites do is they have different difficulties in terms of the roleplays. They have one section for easy roleplays that are a few sentences to a paragraph where beginners can kind of get a hang for it, or where experienced roleplayers can go to do a more relaxing less demanding story. Then they had intermediate and advanced, each having more length and quality expectation required in each category. Maybe that's something that we need to do, try to cater to those who want to have basic and fun roleplays, as well as longer ones with more expectations required.

I know that for one is something that bothers me when I roleplay with other people is simply quality of writing. Maybe that is elitist of me, but I have roleplayed with people in the past with little things about them that just seem to get irritated at them, whether is was grammar or a garish CSS or their personality in or outside of the RP. Maybe that's something that I need to work on as a person, be more accepting of others in general including their mistakes.
I think the Skype problem goes back to what I was saying about the RPT Chat and the comments Retro Bug made. There is an RPT Chat, but it isn't publicly available to everyone. Sure it has been referenced, but if it was really public then there would be a stickied thread or dedicated posts advertising it. This only extends to the RPT Chat, though. Obviously Skype rooms for certain RPs should be exclusive to those RPs. The commonality and problem with cliques I have already discussed.

I have seen what you're talking about as well and when I see the lack of different kinds of rolplays in PC, a place that doesn't advertise itself to be only for one type of roleplay, it concerns me. I know that you can make whatever roleplay you want, but I think it's important to make spaces for less skilled writers to feel comfortable in and improve their writing without fear.

And no, I don't think your preference for who you roleplay with is a sign of elitism. Everyone has preferences. Elitism comes in with the way you treat others/your perception of others (and sometimes yourself) based on skill. Making more Beginner or Advanced or Intermediate RPs will help make it easier for you to get into spaces where you can RP with people at your skill level.

I wasn't going to join in with this, but I want to point something out regarding this, and only this.

I myself also do protest against become official, however my reason for this does not include the one you listed here. In fact, I would argue many people also do not feel this way. This is proven by the fact that a) anyone who asks gets in pretty much straight away b) people not even in the RPT have been added in at some point before. We aren't "selective" about who gets in, it's just we have to let them in if this isn't official.

The reason I myself don't want the chat to become official is because then the rules of the chat have to be hardened to mimic those of PC. And should that happen, a lot of the fun, banterous and quirky conversation we have would disappear.

Saying that we "select" who gets in suggests that we seclude people because we don't we don't want them around. The fact that there have been, and will in future be arguments and disputes in the RPT and RPB suggests otherwise. That statement is, in my opinion nearly entirely wrong, and sheds the entirety of those involved in the RPB in a very bad light.
I don't understand how picking the people you want to be in the chat isn't selective? And I don't understand the "hardened by PCs rules" thing. What is so strict about PCs rules that it wouldn't also automatically apply to the chat?


....

The notion that RPs are made for a certain group seems a bit crazy to me. There is indeed a group that seems to join each others RPs a lot, but in honesty, it's the group of 40~ active RPers that are in multiple RPs at the same time, and dedicate a lot of the time to this section, so a lot of RPs will have a lot of returning faces. Even RPs not made by people that are part of the active regulars here have multiple of these people in them, so I think it's more a volume thing. A lot of RPs here don't have a player cap, so the fact that people join each other's RPs doesn't create a problem there. People will flock to RPs they find interesting, and it helps if people they know are in it/GM it. But, generally, RPs with settings they are interested in are still joined, and there is without doubt room made for newer people to join in. As I said, literally every single RP I've been in, I've RPed with at least one new person, but most of the times it's more than that.

I feel like I mistyped something terribly, or forgot to make a point in this post, but I'm getting a bit tired, so let's just hope that I haven't, haha.
The stuff I took out I either addressed/agreed with but didn't want to take up space/think is a good suggestion for improvement.

As for the RPs made for certain people thing:

*DISCLAIMER: These lists are taken from the OP so please take into account any name changes. All of these lists are from RPs that are closed for applications/started/were made in 2015.

Spoiler:


STAR WARS: Jedi Outcasts
GMed by Fire

Members:
Jegretis
Oddball_
SV
Godzil
Lord Sphear
The Last Sentinel
JohnnyMustang
Legend
gimmiepie
Greiger
aeternum

As the Dust Settles
Gmed by circuit

Members:
Lord Sephear
Ice Goddess
JohnnyMustang
Foxrally
Shak
Godzil
Pikachu
Infinite
GreyBidoof
Varys
Legend
Geras32
Aiden
aeternum
SkyisUmbreon
Yukari
Nagi
Ice
Himika
Deceptio

Trumpets
GMed by Varys

Members:
Fire
ShaymieTheShaymin
LinearAxel
Dragon
Loki
Fennekin210
The Nero
Desinishon
dud190
FireSnow
killer150
Frozen Heart
Crescent Moon
Legend

Redux: The Sinnoh Stories
GMed by gimmiepie

Members:
vsich4
STARDU5T
Icy
Sheraku
Aeternum
Gelius3
Julius Caeser
TheSignWriter
Disclosed
Ice
Aiden
Chicken Fingers
Himika
Ice Goddess
Foreal
Pikachu

Once Upon a Time: An Adventure in Storybrooke
GMed by Merlin

Members:
Cheshire Cat
Godzil
Varys the Galvantula
Wizardman11

Gunpowder
GMed by gimmipie

Members:
GreyBidoof
aeternum
Foxrally
Ice
Shak
Sir General Admiral Fancy Swank
Machomuu
Lord Sephear
JohnnyMustang
Merlin

Astra Story
GMed by aeternum

Pikachu
Aiden
Omicron
Fairy
DLMuerte
Milotic
Davepetasprite^2
Wizardman11
Hopeless Masquerade

Poke-Ronpa: Year One-Dispair
GMed by STARDU5T

Members:
Tokio
Disclosed
Godzil
Vsich4
Grieger
Ozymandias

Shifting Sands
GMed by EternalSushi

Members:
Daydream
Greiger
Disclosed
Godzil
Plumbum
Jegretis
Cheshire Cat
Kikpanther

Legends Of The Past: An Unova Journey
GMed by Frozen Heart

Members:
Himika
Legend
Deceptio
Dragon
Nagi
Lucifer-San
Shak
Nakuzami
Under_Score

Crossroads; Retribution - ACT II
GMed by Fire

Members:
Dragon
Sir Bastion
Himika
Legend
Grieger
Foxrally
drunk ¬_¬
{Swan}
Shak
Geras32

Hidden Village
GMed by Merlin

Members:
<Challenger>
Andydemon
Godzil
Wizardman11
Bacteriophage

Take Off
GMed by The Prince of Sweet Sorrow

Members:
GastlyGibus
Plumbum
Turnip
Grieger
MurkMire
Kikpanther
SV
Pterosauria


There's variation here and there, but I think you can see there is a lot of the same people. It may not be intentional (and technically it's not against the rules) but it's happening.


....

If someone can't make a RP that garners interest for whatever reason, they should hold off and join another RP to whet the appetite. I personally don't recommend people seek out guides on a role-play forum on how to write because with my experience in other places it's the blind leading the blind, but someone can look at the original post of a successful or active roleplay and glean elements from there to compare with what they attempted, and hopefully learn from the differences.

....

If there are "elites" and you're bothered that you aren't "elite" at role-playing, then it sounds like someone wants to get in on an exclusive crowd, or go on a witch hunt to seek out and tear down the bourgeoisie they aren't a part of. True elitism in an rp group is shunning or actively shaming people however they can, only letting in their designated crowd of people while they make it a point to call themselves superior, or imply you are inferior with some shady tactics or outright blatancy to prevent the plebians from trickling in. Being good at writing amidst other good writers is not elitism. People who aren't confident in themselves to join a group that would otherwise take them in should they give it a shot should not call the people they put on a pedestal elites.

And, tbh, I am not that 90% statistic. That's poor rhetoric, jumping the gun by punctuating your argument with the accusation that anyone who may possibly disagree with you somehow doesn't count, as per your bogus generalization. As for me, I'm not an rp activist here. I don't care enough to be in something like a clique, especially not on some subforum for pretending to be a Pokemon Trainer, for instance.



A Pokemon forum with a role-play section has no obligation to coddle people with an assortment of writing guides for beginners. Someone wants to join a roleplay but they can't write well and want to learn how to write better? Well, if it isn't a learning disability preventing them, I'm sure paying attention in English class can help with how to improve one's writing skill. I'm sure someone can Google "how to write well" and get just as many expert journals from English professors, child-oriented worksheets from elementary school teachers, peer-level advice--helpful or just as uninformed--on public "answer" feedback forums like YahooAnswers or a separate RP site that pulls up in the search engine results.

Look, I'm just going to say right now, the only person who can boost their own confidence is oneself. Yes, there are boosters and slights in the form of other people, but if you don't have the drive to do it, or you have such fragile sensibilities, then how unfortunate. The encouragement you get on a role-play forum is in joining a role-play and interacting with the other participants, those whom you feel like you may have a level of understanding with, or whom you may admire. If you can't encourage yourself to jump in, it shouldn't be everyone else's duty to seek you out and swaddle the newborn. That's what introduction threads are for, that's your initiation to the community. That's your praise for your mere presence. Now, go out and connect. Be sociable on this text-based medium.



....

I thought the argument with your bae was that this forum isn't so friendly to beginners. If a beginner is not joining an advanced rp, then they are joining something more fitting to beginners. Then that's not a problem. Their desire for something lesser and creating/joining it solves itself.



I agree with the point that reserves with limited spots are a waste of time. I was surprised entering this forum that people here reserved and were allowed to. When I make a roleplay (I've yet to make one here and am hesitant for reasons not specific to this forum), I do not allow reserves. The issue with reserves is that people put in a reserve, and they forget about it, or procrastinate. Maybe they weren't really too sold on the rp, but they thought they'd get the inspiration to post a character later, and they at least would have a spot saved to make sure, whenever they get around to it. And then they don't kick their rear in gear until there's a notice that the reserve deadline has or will be met very soon, and then they throw something together last minute. Or worse, they rear their ugly head in to complain or seek pity. And GMs who are desperate for their rp to start with a full cast may even extend that reserve because they are hopeful, and that further denies entry from other potential participants in a space that would have otherwise been cleared up.

None of this would happen if people just post their finished applications when they have the time to. I, as a GM, don't like waiting on people and expecting them to keep their word and come around before my reserve deadline. I, as a potential applicant, don't care to see a full list of reserves in what appears to be limited spots, when I can have my application filled out in the same day of being completely sure of wanting to join.

But being intimidated to a role-play because a lot of people have already signed up is no one else's fault but the person feeling insecure. There are people who join late in the game. That is no excuse.



This is a niche subforum. You will have a certain number of people who are active and join a number of role-plays, some at the same time. Is it their fault of their interest? If you eliminate reserves, those names may very well still be there. What would be the alternative in that case, that they not be so active so as to let other people in?



...
Again, the parts I deleted I already answered.

As for the rest of this... I have to be honest I am confused by a lot of what is written here. So I'll try to take this one point at a time. Honestly, these leftover parts have me a bit disappointed that this is the most liked post. I was much more pleased by other responses to this, dissenting or not.

Your first point about no guides on a roleplay website. What? So you're saying that we shouldn't have roleplay guides because the people who write them don't know how to write well anyways? Is that what you're saying? I honestly hope not. Even if (in your opinion frankly) the guide isn't from the hand of God, anything that can help someone improve is helpful. You don't need to be the best selling author to make a guide. And suggesting that someone have to read through entire RPs to improve is also a bit ridiculous. First of all, if the guides won't be good enough then why would the RPs be good enough? Second, not everyone has the time to read an entire RP and imitate what they see to improve when a guide works just as well. I really don't even like the implication that writers who want to get more skilled should just copy the things more skilled players do. While borrowing what you like is always helpful, writing style is a big factor to anything you produce that's written. You shouldn't just copy what someone else does on the false pretense that since that person is good you have to write like them to get better. Unless you're talking strictly grammar and the rules of the English language (or whatever language you're writing in) that's just completely untrue.

Also, I don't understand how thinking someone is a better writer than you is seeking to join an exclusive crowd? Is it because the word "elite" is being used or??? Just because you want to get to the level of a more skilled RPer doesn't make you "bourgeois-seeking" or whatever analogy you were making here.

As for the elitism here I'm just gonna address it now since I skipped over it in previous posts. I made this comment because I remember commentary about being better writers from people here in the forum. Maybe that is just a feeling I got from the forums after I heard that. I don't know, but that's where it is coming from. And it was a while ago as well, so I'm not saying the people/person who said it didn't change their minds.

So for the 90% thing, not really sure where the "those people don't count" thing came from. I never even said that. If that's what you got out of it, sorry. I more meant to say that if you're within the clique you're more likely to say it's not a problem. That's what people do, especially if they feel attacked by something. Honestly, by some of the comments, I think people thought I was trying to attack whoever I thought was in the clique. Maybe in some attempt to tear them down, but that is far from the true. However, being in a clique somehow mean your opinion doesn't matter. If that was the case why would I even post the thread? I mean, 90% is a lot. I think it was clear that was more of an exaggeration than an actual testament to the problems in the RPC. Especially since this discussion isn't even supposed to be ABOUT the clique thing in the first place. Honestly, it was just supposed to be a supporting point. After that I think you just went even way more off base. I don't think anyone here is an RP activist and the whole "especially on a subforum for pretending to be a Pokemon Trainer, for instance". This is just? What? I really don't understand this inclusion and honestly this sounds a bit elitist. Is there something wrong with being on a subforum about Pokemon? Because you make the idea of having a clique here sound ridiculous and silly. Like having a clique is more worthy in a "more sophisticated" or "more realistic" RP setting. I honestly really hope this is not what you meant.

I'm also really hoping you just had bad word choice for the bolded part next. I bolded this because this part was a shocking to me with what you said. Are you really implying that someone might not be good at roleplaying because they have a disability, don't pay attention in their English classes, or need to review elementary level worksheets? Seriously? You can't be serious and I really hope you're not. You do not need to actively bully someone to be an elitist. The things you say and the things you do determine that as well and this frankly sounds really elitist to me. Honestly, it does. I'm even more shocked that you would use a guide off of another RP site as possible help even though you already said it doesn't help. Or even imply that someone could easily find or even need to find scholarly articles on creative writing techniques as an alternative to members of the RP forum they're already on giving out advice. Roleplay forums may not be obligated to do anything, but that doesn't mean it's not a good thing to do. What's wrong with being helpful and improving the site as a whole?

And like I've said before, yes, getting connected to people is also a responsibility of the person who wants to be involved. However, saying "oh well too bad for you" or assuming that person is fragile or infantile is pretty insulting when giving out an extra helping hand isn't backbreaking work and something the members have said they would do anyways.

"I thought your argument with your bae..."? What? I'm not sure if this is supposed to be sass or sarcasm but I really need you to hold it back. I do have a name you can call me by. Unless this is some jab at the fact that we're friends? In which case this is even more confusing. And the argument still is that the forum isn't friendly to beginners. If there aren't Beginner RPs to join then where do they go? Off site? Your point didn't prove anything except that we might potentially be losing members for the forum. I would think the problem was solved if I wasn't also convinced that we want people to stay in the RPC.

Okay, next bolded part. WOW! I'm not a fan of reservations either, but this was totally uncalled for. Reserving a spot doesn't make someone lazy or uninspired or whatever you were trying to say by this. This is extremely insulting to anyone who likes using and allowing reservations and I really think you should have thought this through before you said it. I think this part is just as, if not more, elitist than the last bolded section. Not reserving doesn't somehow make you the better person and reserving doesn't make you detrimental to an RP as you implied.

And I think Quest may have worded this part a bit poorly here or maybe that was how he felt about it. With how quickly people are accepted here on RPC, a full set of reservations almost guarantees that the RP is going to be full straight away. People rarely drop or miss their reservation so another person can jump in. It's even less likely that you'll be accepted despite a reservation. Not signing up because of that isn't a weakness or whatever you are trying to imply here.

With 50+ RPers here in the RPC (according to Ice's post) I don't think it's unrealistic to expect to see more than a couple of faces around here. Especially with the high level of traffic the entire site gets. I think it's really really hard to believe that out of the thousands of people on PC, less than 100 have the desire to RP.




Anyways, that's the end of the replies. I'm sorry if I got a bit aggressive at the end there, but that just really turned me around. If I didn't address something here please tell me about it so I can get to it, but I think I got everything.

If everything is cleared up now I think we should focus this thread more on how we can improve the beginners situation on the website rather than the whole clique thing. (Again, that was not the point of this thread). I think by talking about this we can make a better situation for everyone here at RPC. Even if things seem fine now, if there's a possibility of improvement I really don't see why we shouldn't take that chance!
Anya Odile // Bae'd to Quest // The Frozen Gate

Kikpanther

Not a beginner that's for sure

Female
Louisiana
Seen June 26th, 2018
Posted June 24th, 2018
671 posts
10.7 Years
Okay, there are some things I want to get done the rest of the time I'm awake, so this is the last time I'll post here today. Besides I really want people to get their responses in just in case I need to make another super post.

Again, JohnnyMustang, I really don't understand what you're saying and I'm not 100% sure you read my post? I already said that I was making a Beginner RP and I had another one in mind so? And I already said that fixing the problems in RPC is not a one man job, you need the community for it. So again, I really don't understand this post. And please show where I cast blame. I don't really remember saying "this is your fault", "RPC is like this because of you guys".

I didn't even say anything about the correct way to make RPs. I absolutely didn't imply that everyone had to start making RPs right now immediately. That seems a bit ridiculous doesn't it? The point is that we start improving, not gear up right this second and do a complete overhaul in an hour.

I also really don't understand how discouraging cliques makes my school a dictatorship but okay. I also already acknowledged the whole existence of cliques thing which makes me wonder even more if you actually read the entire post. In fact, I think I did that really early on?

Also most RP forums have categories like this one. You really just have to go to other ones. Idk if it's still active but RPG Directory was a good place to find RPs and they use a lot of these categories. Though I will say that their grading system is a bit too strict for my liking.
Anya Odile // Bae'd to Quest // The Frozen Gate

gimmepie

Age 24
Male
Australia
Seen 24 Minutes Ago
Posted 7 Hours Ago
20,620 posts
7.6 Years
-Snip-
Honestly, I don't understand what you want. You've gone on and on about people who disagree with you offering nothing but anecdotal evidence, but quite frankly I think all these people - several of whom are quite new to the RPT - saying they had no trouble getting involved with others etc indicates a trend towards inclusiveness that you are simply choosing to ignore. The only person in this thread who hasn't got anything to support their claims is you, because despite your continuously telling us that we aren't beginner friendly, beginners are straight up saying otherwise. On matter of "beginner-friendliness" I'm more inclined to listen to what the beginners have to say.

The only "evidence" you've brought to this discussion is a list of a few RPs that have several - although not merely as many as you made it sound - of the same RPers. Which did nothing but prove that this section has a dedicated core of regulars much like the World of PokeCommunity, the Underground or even the Treehouse. Are we supposed to not let regulars play in the same RPs together? Is that what you're getting at? Because as long as I have any say in the matter, there will never be restrictions on who you can RP with.

You talk a lot about "beginners" and "advanced" RPs too (and occasionally intermediate) but I don't understand what you're on about there either. I get what each of those categories is meant to imply and entail sure, and I admit I can see that some of our RPs might be a little intimidating to people who aren't too sure of their abilities. I don't know what you expect to be done about people putting a lot of effort into creating complex and exciting settings and stories though. I would also love to know which active RPs you consider not to be beginner friendly, or to be beginner friendly. Do you want us to start segregating RPers based on their writing ability and incorporate tags/sub-sections like these other RP sites? That's not going to make (our already friendly and inclusive) community any more beginner friendly, it's going to get in the way of people forming friendships and it's going to create grounds for actual elitism to exist.

I think it's high time you give us a straight up, blunt answer as to what you think needs changing with the RPT. I'm not saying write another massive overly-complicated essay, don't tell me what you think the problem is either because you've done that plenty. Narrow it down to a couple of sentences - what do you want us to change?.

Once you've done that maybe I can understand you better and we can at least get on the same page, because being totally honest it looks to me like you're complaining about a problem that isn't there and complaining about a non-existent problem amounts to nothing more than complaining for the sake of it.
Advertiser Content