Sixth Generation The Kalos region awaits! Explore a new world, capture new Pokémon, and fight off Team Flare in one of the newer installments of the core Pokémon series.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old May 1st, 2017 (5:26 AM).
Shaggythescoobysnack Shaggythescoobysnack is offline
     
    Join Date: Apr 2017
    Posts: 9

    To be honest, we needed Pokemon Z more than we needed Sun and Moon. I'm not trying to diss the seventh generation, in fact, I thought that the game was a breath of fresh air, but X/Y was so disappointing that I feel like sixth gen was left in the dust. About 10% of what I wanted for the game was new Zygarde forms. The other 90% was me wanting a decent version of Kalos. I don't think we can do anything about it, but I do want to share my opinion about it.

    Reply With Quote

    Relevant Advertising!

      #2    
    Old May 1st, 2017 (6:03 AM).
    HeroLinik's Avatar
    HeroLinik HeroLinik is offline
    Our shared past, and our...lost future.
       
      Join Date: Apr 2017
      Location: I do not want you Stalkers.
      Age: 19
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Jolly
      Posts: 115

      That doesn't go without mentioning how many mysteries went unsolved with Kalos, as well as how much potential went to waste. For example, what was the point of the ghost girl? What is behind the Power Plant doors? What is the point of the Chamber of Emptiness? What is the Lava Dome Pokemon underneath Jaune Plaza? The thing is here they simply shoehorned Zygarde into Sun and Moon just to make it "relevant" yet all it became was a bland, tedious collection sidequest not unlike the Gold Skulltulas in Ocarina of Time, especially considering it was just...there, without any backstory or even Xerneas and Yveltal.

      If anything, they should have held off on Zygarde in S/M, and then release a third instalment that features Kalos and the backstory of Zygarde, and its relationship with Xerneas and Yveltal, as well as hopefully tying up any loose ends with Kalos.

      __________________
      Watch me on the YouTubes!


      And I don't even care if this team is heavily weak to Fire, but it's carried me so far to even winning some tournaments!
      Reply With Quote
        #3    
      Old May 1st, 2017 (1:07 PM).
      Shaggythescoobysnack Shaggythescoobysnack is offline
         
        Join Date: Apr 2017
        Posts: 9

        Completely agree with you. Zygarde had so much potential as a legendary, and for the lore of the series. And Kalos had so much potential as well. I wouldn't have mind if they took a Black 2/White 2 approach on it too. In fact, I feel like it may have been better if they took that approach if they took any approach at all.

        Reply With Quote
          #4    
        Old May 1st, 2017 (1:34 PM).
        Meyneth's Avatar
        Meyneth Meyneth is offline
        • Crystal Tier
         
        Join Date: Oct 2014
        Gender: Other
        Nature: Quiet
        Posts: 9,328

        We didn't need Pokemon Z, specifically. What we needed was proper closure of the story - and I use that term very loosely, because this is Pokemon we're talking about here - that the games had with Mega Evolution etc., which they attempted to provide with the Delta Episode in ORAS. It wasn't perfect, by any means. But it was an attempt. There was at least an acknowledgement there that things were left unfinished, and some effort to tidy them up. What we really needed was for the Delta Episode to be better.

        But I am going to stubbornly insist that we did not need to tread through Kalos a second time just to have the same plot told to us yet again only with Zygarde as the cover star this time. Which is exactly what Z would have been. Third versions typically DO provide more content than the base versions, I will agree - Emerald was better than Ruby and Sapphire (and ORAS, for that matter) and Platinum was better than Diamond and Pearl - but given the timing of the games and the fact that these were the first games on the 3DS and were built completely differently, Gen VI was only ever going to be a stopgap generation. That was only made even more apparent when Sun and Moon were released.

        I mean, look at the difference visually, between Sun and Moon, and X and Y. It's clear which one of them had more effort put into it - XY look and feel like a trial run, and it would have taken a lot more than a third version to change that. Creating Pokemon Z with SM visuals would have likely required making Kalos again from the ground up, and would have begged the question of why the hell they didn't do that in the first place...and it really wouldn't have been worth it for a little extra content, would it? Kalos was rushed, plain and simple.

        Kalos was an under-developed, largely unexplored region. But the flaw was in the design of the region itself, not from the lack of a more complete third version, which would have had the same flaws, just with a different Legendary on the front cover and a little extra content. In a series as similar as Pokemon, these little things often make all the difference, but in this case I don't think it would have, especially looking at Sun and Moon.

        I didn't like Gen VII at all, but even I can see more effort was put into designing Alola than Kalos. I wouldn't say Sun and Moon need a third version, and they're in exactly the same place as XY are right now, only because more effort has been put into it, they're generally regarded as more satisfactory titles. Given the huge list of flaws with XY, it would take more than a third version to salvage Kalos as a region. What we needed was for XY to be better as they were. What we needed was for XY to have Sun and Moon's visuals, have more effort put into making them a more complete experience, or for a greater sense of closure provided with the Delta Episode in ORAS, which could have tied into XY more than they did.

        Gen VI was just a mess. Wishing for more wouldn't have changed that, in my opinion.

        Reply With Quote
          #5    
        Old May 1st, 2017 (2:24 PM).
        Kratosx's Avatar
        Kratosx Kratosx is offline
        Flareon Master
           
          Join Date: Sep 2008
          Location: Sweden
          Nature: Modest
          Posts: 433

          xy was fine as they were you have to think they had to make a 3d model for each and every one of the 720 pokemon so ofcourse it took lots in the making of the game dont understand why sme people bash xy when they are the second best selling games in the series, also the sun and moon games had the graphcs pushed to the limit thats why they look beter and had to remove things like hordes to fit evrything thy wanted to add

          __________________
          Currently doings:

          working on completing Alola dex, then will be shiny breeding in Moon

          my 3DS FC is:
          0216-2224-5730
          Reply With Quote
            #6    
          Old May 2nd, 2017 (3:52 AM).
          Shaggythescoobysnack Shaggythescoobysnack is offline
             
            Join Date: Apr 2017
            Posts: 9

            What X/Y did for the series visually isn't really what we are talking about. The wasted potential of the games and what a sister/sequel game what have done is the problem here. Cons of X/Y were the evil team, the postgame, the lore of Zygarde, and what the sixth generation could have been, is the problem we are having. If X/Y is your favorite game, thats fine, I'm just going to respectfully disagree with you.

            Reply With Quote
              #7    
            Old May 3rd, 2017 (11:12 AM).
            Luna's Avatar
            Luna Luna is offline
            Aaron is that weirdo with 5 colours in her hair
            • Gold Tier
             
            Join Date: May 2014
            Location: England
            Age: 18
            Gender: Male
            Nature: Adamant
            Posts: 3,380

            As much as I agree with you, I feel like Game Freak made a decision on creating Sun and Moon pretty early on and had not thought to make a Z version for very long, if at all. So, imo, they should have done a lot more to flesh out Kalos and the story of Pokemon X and Y. The games did loads to move the series forward but I believe that instead of just leaving us with loads of mysteries, GF should have given us answers in conclusions in XY, which would compensate for the lack of a third version/sequel.

            __________________
            Reply With Quote
              #8    
            Old May 22nd, 2017 (3:36 PM).
            Howmander's Avatar
            Howmander Howmander is offline
               
              Join Date: Oct 2013
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Adamant
              Posts: 1,955

              I think X and Y got the short end of the stick, because it was out, for what, a year and then suddenly comes ORAS and for the next TWO years all the competitions and online focus was just ORAS only, even the online presence seemed to focus pretty heavily on the Hoenn starters rather than the Kalos ones. I think the Z crystals, new Zygarde forms, etc, were a pretty big tip off than the ideas that were going to be for Pokemon Z were simply merged into a new gen rather than 1 year X/y, next year ORas, third year Z, fourth year (now) Sun and Moon

              __________________
              Need a specific Berry? I have literally every kind. Need a Friend Safari HA pokemon? I have them all. Need a gen 1 - 3 (and a few from gen 4) Move Tutor Egg Move that can no longer be obtained? I might be able to help. Drop me a DM if you need anything and maybe I can help!
              My first battle in a competition, January 2016: I call this "never give up!" :D YNUW-WWWW-WW3F-FMAQ
              Reply With Quote
                #9    
              Old June 2nd, 2017 (11:24 PM).
              Home's Avatar
              Home Home is offline

              C R O S S P O I S O N

              • Crystal Tier
              • EOEvent Organizer
               
              Join Date: Jun 2014
              Location: Philippines
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Adamant
              Posts: 3,265

              There’s a lot of unanswered questions with x and y and, while sun and moon is an awesome game, it doesn’t necessarily answer those questions. Generation VI felt very rushed as if the creators only wanted to spit out games for money. While a third game for the Generation seemed impossible now, a spin-off tying all those loose ends (a Ranger game maybe) can be good in my mind.

              __________________
              Reply With Quote
                #10    
              Old July 13th, 2017 (2:19 AM).
              Alexander18's Avatar
              Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
              Dragon user
                 
                Join Date: Jun 2017
                Location: NZ
                Gender: Male
                Nature: Lonely
                Posts: 675

                Gen 6 games were excellent. We didn't get Z since we can get all non event pokemon between XY and ORAS. No point having a Z when the others had all non event pokemon. I am fine with Zygarde being in SM.

                Reply With Quote
                  #11    
                Old July 13th, 2017 (8:19 AM).
                SleepyTrainer's Avatar
                SleepyTrainer SleepyTrainer is offline
                   
                  Join Date: May 2015
                  Age: 19
                  Gender: Male
                  Nature: Quiet
                  Posts: 223

                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by HeroLinik View Post
                  That doesn't go without mentioning how many mysteries went unsolved with Kalos, as well as how much potential went to waste. For example, what was the point of the ghost girl? What is behind the Power Plant doors? What is the point of the Chamber of Emptiness? What is the Lava Dome Pokemon underneath Jaune Plaza? The thing is here they simply shoehorned Zygarde into Sun and Moon just to make it "relevant" yet all it became was a bland, tedious collection sidequest not unlike the Gold Skulltulas in Ocarina of Time, especially considering it was just...there, without any backstory or even Xerneas and Yveltal.

                  If anything, they should have held off on Zygarde in S/M, and then release a third instalment that features Kalos and the backstory of Zygarde, and its relationship with Xerneas and Yveltal, as well as hopefully tying up any loose ends with Kalos.

                  The ghost girl was an easter egg and a refernce to future games (S/M), The Lava Dome myth could have been there to trick the player into thinking that they are on about Heatran, but it was a indirect reference to Volcanion. Of course it's not a lava dome pokemon, but it is a fire type legendary, and the two woman probably just show off how wrong rumors can go.
                  ... other than that I dunno, can't remember the chamber of emptiness. Also the note of the back side of a signpost is odd, "I'll get help, wait in the usual place." There IS a boy that asks "Is this the place?" but it all can be discovered way early of the Looker quest, might be just a mere reference too I guess. Can't remember anymore if the boy was involved.

                  Reply With Quote
                    #12    
                  Old July 15th, 2017 (11:39 AM).
                  Ducolamia's Avatar
                  Ducolamia Ducolamia is offline
                     
                    Join Date: Sep 2015
                    Gender: Female
                    Nature: Careful
                    Posts: 200

                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Meyneth View Post
                    We didn't need Pokemon Z, specifically. What we needed was proper closure of the story - and I use that term very loosely, because this is Pokemon we're talking about here - that the games had with Mega Evolution etc., which they attempted to provide with the Delta Episode in ORAS. It wasn't perfect, by any means. But it was an attempt. There was at least an acknowledgement there that things were left unfinished, and some effort to tidy them up. What we really needed was for the Delta Episode to be better.

                    But I am going to stubbornly insist that we did not need to tread through Kalos a second time just to have the same plot told to us yet again only with Zygarde as the cover star this time. Which is exactly what Z would have been. Third versions typically DO provide more content than the base versions, I will agree - Emerald was better than Ruby and Sapphire (and ORAS, for that matter) and Platinum was better than Diamond and Pearl - but given the timing of the games and the fact that these were the first games on the 3DS and were built completely differently, Gen VI was only ever going to be a stopgap generation. That was only made even more apparent when Sun and Moon were released.

                    I mean, look at the difference visually, between Sun and Moon, and X and Y. It's clear which one of them had more effort put into it - XY look and feel like a trial run, and it would have taken a lot more than a third version to change that. Creating Pokemon Z with SM visuals would have likely required making Kalos again from the ground up, and would have begged the question of why the hell they didn't do that in the first place...and it really wouldn't have been worth it for a little extra content, would it? Kalos was rushed, plain and simple.

                    Kalos was an under-developed, largely unexplored region. But the flaw was in the design of the region itself, not from the lack of a more complete third version, which would have had the same flaws, just with a different Legendary on the front cover and a little extra content. In a series as similar as Pokemon, these little things often make all the difference, but in this case I don't think it would have, especially looking at Sun and Moon.

                    I didn't like Gen VII at all, but even I can see more effort was put into designing Alola than Kalos. I wouldn't say Sun and Moon need a third version, and they're in exactly the same place as XY are right now, only because more effort has been put into it, they're generally regarded as more satisfactory titles. Given the huge list of flaws with XY, it would take more than a third version to salvage Kalos as a region. What we needed was for XY to be better as they were. What we needed was for XY to have Sun and Moon's visuals, have more effort put into making them a more complete experience, or for a greater sense of closure provided with the Delta Episode in ORAS, which could have tied into XY more than they did.

                    Gen VI was just a mess. Wishing for more wouldn't have changed that, in my opinion.

                    <<<<ALL OF THIS. I thought I was the only person to think we didn't need a Pokemon Z. The awful truth is that even if Pokemon Z did happen we probably won't be getting the answers we wanted. It's clearly obvious that Gamefreak rushed out XY for the 3ds and barely put any thought to the game other than the aesthetic, Pokemon, and system mechanics. As a result, the story took a huge dump that in my mind will forever stain this generation specifically. ORAS is a significant step up, but it's not enough to save gen VI. It really isn't.

                    I feel that even if Zygarde did get what it deserved, it's obvious that it wouldn't be anything that people would be looking for.

                    __________________
                    Ducolamia
                    Reply With Quote
                      #13    
                    Old 4 Weeks Ago (12:33 PM).
                    Alexander18's Avatar
                    Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
                    Dragon user
                       
                      Join Date: Jun 2017
                      Location: NZ
                      Gender: Male
                      Nature: Lonely
                      Posts: 675

                      Disagree. XY games were fine games with good story, mechanics, etc. Z could of happen but that be reverting back to an old formula. GF decided not to do so.

                      Reply With Quote
                        #14    
                      Old 4 Weeks Ago (3:57 PM).
                      Nah's Avatar
                      Nah Nah is offline
                      • Moderator
                       
                      Join Date: Nov 2013
                      Location: over there
                      Age: 24
                      Gender: Female
                      Posts: 11,504

                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
                      Disagree. XY games were fine games with good story
                      XY most certainly did not have a great story. It could have had one, but Game Freak didn't deliver on that front. If you want an in-depth explanation, here: https://daily.pokecommunity.com/2017/02/01/conflicting-egos/

                      Really XY was the same thing that we've been getting with basically every first pair of a generation since 2003: a barebones experience with a lacking storyline that just rides on the Pokemon name rather than Game Freak trying to go beyond what's par for the course.

                      A "Pokemon Z" would've been nice as a chance to do Kalos justice, though admittedly I don't really think that if Game Freak did make a Z that they would've done things truly right that time either.

                      __________________
                      NAH

                      "Heh, I'm not scared of you!"

                      D&DTourney6th Gen
                      Reply With Quote
                        #15    
                      Old 4 Weeks Ago (7:38 PM).
                      Alexander18's Avatar
                      Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
                      Dragon user
                         
                        Join Date: Jun 2017
                        Location: NZ
                        Gender: Male
                        Nature: Lonely
                        Posts: 675

                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Nah View Post
                        XY most certainly did not have a great story. It could have had one, but Game Freak didn't deliver on that front. If you want an in-depth explanation, here: https://daily.pokecommunity.com/2017/02/01/conflicting-egos/

                        Really XY was the same thing that we've been getting with basically every first pair of a generation since 2003: a barebones experience with a lacking storyline that just rides on the Pokemon name rather than Game Freak trying to go beyond what's par for the course.

                        A "Pokemon Z" would've been nice as a chance to do Kalos justice, though admittedly I don't really think that if Game Freak did make a Z that they would've done things truly right that time either.

                        No. XY had a great story. That is it. We didn't need z since the other four games had all non event pokemon. I know what i am talking when it comes to pokemon games. Don't argue with me.

                        Reply With Quote
                          #16    
                        Old 4 Weeks Ago (10:33 AM).
                        TheSignOfLibra's Avatar
                        TheSignOfLibra TheSignOfLibra is offline
                           
                          Join Date: Jul 2017
                          Location: United States
                          Gender: Female
                          Nature: Brave
                          Posts: 13

                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by HeroLinik View Post
                          That doesn't go without mentioning how many mysteries went unsolved with Kalos, as well as how much potential went to waste. For example, what was the point of the ghost girl? What is behind the Power Plant doors? What is the point of the Chamber of Emptiness? What is the Lava Dome Pokemon underneath Jaune Plaza? The thing is here they simply shoehorned Zygarde into Sun and Moon just to make it "relevant" yet all it became was a bland, tedious collection sidequest not unlike the Gold Skulltulas in Ocarina of Time, especially considering it was just...there, without any backstory or even Xerneas and Yveltal.

                          If anything, they should have held off on Zygarde in S/M, and then release a third instalment that features Kalos and the backstory of Zygarde, and its relationship with Xerneas and Yveltal, as well as hopefully tying up any loose ends with Kalos.

                          Actually, the Lava Dome Pokemon in Jaune Plaza is just a mistranslation, apparently. Apparently one woman was imitating Heatran and the other woman said something along the lines of, "It sounds like there's a lava dome pokemon in Jaune Plaza".

                          Reply With Quote
                            #17    
                          Old 4 Weeks Ago (12:51 PM).
                          Nah's Avatar
                          Nah Nah is offline
                          • Moderator
                           
                          Join Date: Nov 2013
                          Location: over there
                          Age: 24
                          Gender: Female
                          Posts: 11,504

                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
                          No. XY had a great story. That is it. We didn't need z since the other four games had all non event pokemon. I know what i am talking when it comes to pokemon games. Don't argue with me.
                          Why is XY's story great though?

                          __________________
                          NAH

                          "Heh, I'm not scared of you!"

                          D&DTourney6th Gen
                          Reply With Quote
                            #18    
                          Old 4 Weeks Ago (8:41 PM).
                          Alexander18's Avatar
                          Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
                          Dragon user
                             
                            Join Date: Jun 2017
                            Location: NZ
                            Gender: Male
                            Nature: Lonely
                            Posts: 675

                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by Nah View Post
                            Why is XY's story great though?

                            Because it is well made, a good plot and decent for main series games. Far better than kanto who has a boring story especially without a legendary involved.

                            I don't need to justify why XY story is great anyway. It just is. I love it so that is all that matters.

                            Reply With Quote
                              #19    
                            Old 4 Weeks Ago (12:07 PM).
                            Nah's Avatar
                            Nah Nah is offline
                            • Moderator
                             
                            Join Date: Nov 2013
                            Location: over there
                            Age: 24
                            Gender: Female
                            Posts: 11,504

                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
                            Because it is well made, a good plot and decent for main series games. Far better than kanto who has a boring story especially without a legendary involved.

                            I don't need to justify why XY story is great anyway. It just is. I love it so that is all that matters.

                            Mate, repeating what you said previously is not really an explanation

                            __________________
                            NAH

                            "Heh, I'm not scared of you!"

                            D&DTourney6th Gen
                            Reply With Quote
                              #20    
                            Old 4 Weeks Ago (12:17 PM).
                            Alexander18's Avatar
                            Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
                            Dragon user
                               
                              Join Date: Jun 2017
                              Location: NZ
                              Gender: Male
                              Nature: Lonely
                              Posts: 675

                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Nah View Post
                              Mate, repeating what you said previously is not really an explanation
                              I did not repeat. What i am saying is an explanation. Accept it or stop replying. We didn't need a Z because GF didn't felt the need for one.

                              Reply With Quote
                                #21    
                              Old 4 Weeks Ago (12:38 PM).
                              Nah's Avatar
                              Nah Nah is offline
                              • Moderator
                               
                              Join Date: Nov 2013
                              Location: over there
                              Age: 24
                              Gender: Female
                              Posts: 11,504

                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
                              I did not repeat. What i am saying is an explanation. Accept it or stop replying.
                              idk man:
                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Alexander18
                              Disagree. XY games were fine games with good story, mechanics, etc. Z could of happen but that be reverting back to an old formula. GF decided not to do so.

                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Alexander18
                              No. XY had a great story. That is it. We didn't need z since the other four games had all non event pokemon. I know what i am talking when it comes to pokemon games. Don't argue with me.

                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Alexander18
                              Because it is well made, a good plot and decent for main series games. Far better than kanto who has a boring story especially without a legendary involved.

                              I don't need to justify why XY story is great anyway. It just is. I love it so that is all that matters.

                              looks like you're repeating yourself to me

                              __________________
                              NAH

                              "Heh, I'm not scared of you!"

                              D&DTourney6th Gen
                              Reply With Quote
                                #22    
                              Old 4 Weeks Ago (12:47 PM).
                              Alexander18's Avatar
                              Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
                              Dragon user
                                 
                                Join Date: Jun 2017
                                Location: NZ
                                Gender: Male
                                Nature: Lonely
                                Posts: 675

                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by Nah View Post
                                idk man:

                                looks like you're repeating yourself to me

                                There was nothing wrong with the story for me. I like how Lysandre seemed decent at first but turned out to be the villain. The story like others before and after is not perfect but it is still a good story to go through.

                                At least for me it was. Anyway, Z would have been the same except for some minor changes, a couple new features, zygarde as mascot and maybe a bit more post game. But it would have mainly been the same.

                                Reply With Quote
                                  #23    
                                Old 4 Weeks Ago (12:55 PM).
                                Nah's Avatar
                                Nah Nah is offline
                                • Moderator
                                 
                                Join Date: Nov 2013
                                Location: over there
                                Age: 24
                                Gender: Female
                                Posts: 11,504

                                There ya go, now you're starting to get it. That wasn't so hard, now was it? =)

                                __________________
                                NAH

                                "Heh, I'm not scared of you!"

                                D&DTourney6th Gen
                                Reply With Quote
                                  #24    
                                Old 4 Weeks Ago (1:06 PM).
                                Alexander18's Avatar
                                Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
                                Dragon user
                                   
                                  Join Date: Jun 2017
                                  Location: NZ
                                  Gender: Male
                                  Nature: Lonely
                                  Posts: 675

                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by Nah View Post
                                  There ya go, now you're starting to get it. That wasn't so hard, now was it? =)

                                  I don't like the way you said that. I am not some kid you are teaching. I played the games long enough to know what is a good story and what is not.

                                  XY story was a story worth remembering. The only bad story was kanto which was boring. Johto wasn't much better except they at least had the mascots in the story although TR had nothing to do with them.

                                  Reply With Quote
                                  Reply
                                  Quick Reply

                                  Sponsored Links
                                  Thread Tools

                                  Posting Rules
                                  You may not post new threads
                                  You may not post replies
                                  You may not post attachments
                                  You may not edit your posts

                                  BB code is On
                                  Smilies are On
                                  [IMG] code is On
                                  HTML code is Off

                                  Forum Jump


                                  All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:14 AM.