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Watch out for Ghosts...

Meadow

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36.

Regarding co-op in LGPE, yeah... xD That caught me by surprise, ahaha. I'm so used to getting tag-teamed by NPCs that I never imagined that they'd actually let us do 2v1 like that. =p

btw i'm a stan for best wishes so i'm glad there's someone that says it's not as bad as people make it out to be (because it isn't)

Same, same!! It's been soooo long since we used to talk about BW, omg! <333
(Very late saying this, but I'm super glad to see you around here again! I can't blame you if you don't remember me, though—I've changed my name like a billion times, and it's been years on top of that!)

Anyway, I haven't been up-to-date in Sun & Moon either. D: I kinda fell off at around episode 24 or so, and have been procrastinating at getting back into it. But I have seen the entirety of Best Wishes and XY subbed! They're both my personal favorites, and I have trouble deciding which one I love more hahah.
 

pkmin3033

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37. I haven't watched Pokemon seriously since DPPt ended...the anime died around the same time as the games. I've seen bits and pieces of Unova and Kalos, and the screenshots I've seen of the SM anime suggest that it's a badly animated hell of old references (mostly recently G Gundam?) and throwbacks in a painful-to-see attempt to entice older fans back to the show.
 

CodeHelmet

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37. I haven't watched Pokemon seriously since DPPt ended...the anime died around the same time as the games. I've seen bits and pieces of Unova and Kalos, and the screenshots I've seen of the SM anime suggest that it's a badly animated hell of old references (mostly recently G Gundam?) and throwbacks in a painful-to-see attempt to entice older fans back to the show.

38

Didn't want to talk SuMo or at the very least save this for my Top Series list but I might as well. I'll start with Unova so as to lead into it from where you stopped and simply say that the Ash reset was noticeable and brutal. Ash's Ace in Pikachu, despite the handicap placed upon it, lost to a starter Snivy. Trip, who owned said Snivy came across as a wanna-be Paul while Iris and Cilan(who joined after Ash's first Gym battle, mirroring Original Series that they were trying to recapture) were largely thrust into the background while Ash traveled around obtaining Gym Badges. What hurt the series, to me, was that they tried to turn it into something it's not. They tried to mold it after Kanto with the Misty 2.0 Iris(which she's not) and Cilan with his quirky and bizarre "evaluations" that although set Cilan apart from Brock, also made him irrelevant. Iris' catchphrase of "you're such a kid" was a criticism on Ash(which was justified at times) but got old really fast and was hypocritical at the same time because Iris herself at times acted like one. They didn't give Iris the proper attention or respect she deserved and they added characters that they didn't need to add(like Georgia and Burgundy). The cherry on top that hurt this series was how Ash lost in the Unova League. A great deal was made over Ash's loss in Sinnoh(much less Kalos which I'll get to shortly) but his Unova defeat is god awful. He lost to a trainer with 5 Pokémon as opposed to the maximum of 6. Meaning Ash only had to defeat five and he'd move on. Yet his opponent had a Riolu that evolved into Lucario and proceeded to roll his team that was full of unevolved Pokémon. Save for Krookodile, Leavanny and Unfezant, the bulk of his Unova roster was unevolved. Evolution isn't the measure that we should measure all trainers on the value of strength but it just felt that Ash didn't fully tap into the potential his Unova team could have become.

After getting humiliated in Unova, Ash goes to Kalos where the reset is hardly noticeable. Gym Leaders truly redeem not only the mantle of Gym Leader but also the Anime itself. Every Gym Battle in Kalos was a pleasure to watch, with Korrina and Wulfric the most notable due to Mega Evolution. Will also give a shout-out to Viola(who beats Ash), Valerie(Fairy Type Gym) and Olympia(Psychic Type Gyms always are memorable). It's not often I say that the Anime did better than the games in showcasing the Kalos region but I'll be one of the few, if not many, to bestow that honor on the series. The series isn't perfect by any stretch. Serena took forever to be given a goal to strive for. She pretty much flails in the wind for 38 Episodes before the Summer Academy arc(a rehash of Sinnoh honestly) gives her something to strive for while conveniently introducing the game's side characters/rivals(if you can call them that...) in Shauna, Trevor and Tierno. She also is neglected when it comes to Team captures, ending the series with just three Pokémon, although having one Pokémon in particular that everyone strives to get(and for good reason). What set this region apart, to me, was the purposeful inclusion of a romance between Serena and Ash. Some hated their decision to do this while others claim it's what made them love the Anime again. The romance is rather one-sided but the instances where Serena's crush on the oblivious Ash is brought up are some of the funniest I've ever seen. I suppose I should end with Ash's result in the Kalos league seeing as I brought it up earlier. Everything pointed to Ash winning it. Fully evolved team with 2 Dragons(seriously.. 2 fully evolved Dragons.... not even Iris can claim that!) and yet comes up just short against Alain and his Mega Charizard. It would have put a nice bow on Ash's career as the Pokémon Protagonist but like always, he has to lose.

Ash's maturity in XY/XYZ was far above a 10 year old. So much so that you thought he had been aged to 15 without even being told. Fast forward to Alola and SuMo and this is what you get:

1) Animation/Art Style change. Ash no longer looks like his mature or bad-ass self from XY but looks like he's even younger than the 10 year old he's portrayed to be. His maturity level also doesn't match his XY self one bit. While the change in animation can really take some getting used to, I don't think it's what makes the series bad.

2) Too many characters. Pokémon has traditionally been Ash plus two companions. One being Male, the other Female. The most they've had was three and only twice. First time with Max, a useless fourth wheel during Hoenn and Bonnie during Kalos who actually had a more impactful or enjoyable role by being the "You're a Keeper" instigator and ultimately the caretaker of "Squishy", aka Zygarde during Season 19(XYZ). SuMo takes things to a new level by giving Ash five companions. This ultimately leads to characters being outright ignored and none more so, in, my opinion, than Sophacles.

3) Anime is nothing like the games. Ash's companions are classmates with him at a school. That completely contradicts past seasons of Pokémon where Ash just flat out doesn't do well in a school setting, much less needs a school setting to progress as a Pokémon trainer. To make matters worse, his classmates aren't Trial Captains in training. Heck there aren't even Trial Captains and Ilima doesn't appear until 65 Episodes in(64 in English).

4) Rival disappointment. Gladion is Ash's main rival but so far has been a disappointment. They added in Hau recently but his entrance feels way overdue and rushed. Furthermore is Kiawe a rival for Ash or not? They keep hinting at it but if he is, then he needs more than just two Pokémon and one Z-Crystal.

5) Team Skull is an abject joke. Guzma hasn't even appeared yet and Plumeria, finally, and I mean finally appears next week in Episode 104(you read that right... 104).

6) Brock and Misty are Kanto fan service. When they first appeared in SuMo42 and 43, I thought they'd be used as mechanisms to develop our companion characters in a similar fashion to May with Dawn(or Dawn with Iris...). Meaning I was hoping they'd have an impact on Kiawe, Lana and Mallow. Unfortunately it wasn't the case and were merely used as Kanto fan service. Their recent reappearance in SuMo102 and 103 was more of the same, although they did kind of hint at Brock marrying Olivia in 103(she did catch Burnet's wedding bouquet. Misty, as always, pulls him away so... yeah).

Now SuMo isn't all bad. They did have some Episodes that were notable, such as Episode 21. Best Episode at exploring death in an impactful way that leaves you with a tear in your eye. 100 and 101 are also not bad either. Gives a Back to the Future feel with a divergent timeline or parallel universe. Acerola is the best side character to date(frankly is what makes the series tolerable as they got her character spot on).

Outside of that and Aether Foundation, eh the show frankly sucks.
 

pkmin3033

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39. I know a lot of people praise XYZ, but honestly I think Ash-Greninja ruins the entire arc and makes Ash's character development something of a joke...it really doesn't stick the landing when he loses a battle he was practically guaranteed to win.
 
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36.Same, same!! It's been soooo long since we used to talk about BW, omg! <333
(Very late saying this, but I'm super glad to see you around here again! I can't blame you if you don't remember me, though—I've changed my name like a billion times, and it's been years on top of that!)

it has been a long time yes! (and ofc i remember you i believe you have the same name you had when i left but idk. either way you're pretty recognizable hahah). talking about bw with someone who also enjoyed the series was a real treat (and still is, honestly)!

I still have a headcanon about why Ash's reset from sinnoh to unova was so jarring (this is bc i had to explain it when roleplaying him pft). but ofc it's something that i don't really tell people unless they're actually interested in knowing. all i'm gonna say is that bw!ash is honestly one of my favorites when it comes to characterization, with dp!ash being close behind.

which is why i honestly really like the latest pokemon movie so much bc that ash was a nice mixture of those two characterizations of ash and the ash i used to strive to play when i used to roleplay the dork.
 

Meadow

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41.

it has been a long time yes! (and ofc i remember you i believe you have the same name you had when i left but idk. either way you're pretty recognizable hahah). talking about bw with someone who also enjoyed the series was a real treat (and still is, honestly)!

I still have a headcanon about why Ash's reset from sinnoh to unova was so jarring (this is bc i had to explain it when roleplaying him pft). but ofc it's something that i don't really tell people unless they're actually interested in knowing. all i'm gonna say is that bw!ash is honestly one of my favorites when it comes to characterization, with dp!ash being close behind.

which is why i honestly really like the latest pokemon movie so much bc that ash was a nice mixture of those two characterizations of ash and the ash i used to strive to play when i used to roleplay the dork.

aaaaaaaaaahhh, I meant to respond to this much sooner oops!! But still, I'm definitely interested in hearing your headcanon about Ash's reset! :D

I also have my own headcanon about Ash during the transition from Best Wishes to XY, and that's kinda why BW!Ash and XY!Ash are my favorite characterizations of Ash, haha. Though I guess I might be overthinking it a bit too much, seeing as I've watched BW142 and XY001 far too many times for my own good. =p
 

CodeHelmet

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Not sure what to make of Charjabug evolving last week, much less Popplio finally evolving. In any case, let's see if we can't get this count higher. I don't want to be the only Ghost around here.
 
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41.



aaaaaaaaaahhh, I meant to respond to this much sooner oops!! But still, I'm definitely interested in hearing your headcanon about Ash's reset! :D

I also have my own headcanon about Ash during the transition from Best Wishes to XY, and that's kinda why BW!Ash and XY!Ash are my favorite characterizations of Ash, haha. Though I guess I might be overthinking it a bit too much, seeing as I've watched BW142 and XY001 far too many times for my own good. =p

43.

oh boy ok i'm gonna copy+paste what i said in discord (with a few tweaks)

1. people always comment about how he makes simple mistakes and forget things he's already learned etc etc. well... he's ten. i don't know about you but when i was ten i would often forget simple things and make dumb mistakes again here and there. hell i'm 26 and i still do that sort of thing so it's not like it's out of the norm especially since it's been a while since you've drawn that information out of it/you're trying to draw it out under pressure. sometimes you can forget even the simplest of details. THAT SAID--
2. unova was supposed to have been a vacation between him and his mother before he decided to set out on his journey. i'd like to say that he was kinda put on "vacation mode as a result" and also because of--
3. his adventures in sinnoh put him in situations that ash had never dealt with before. especially his struggles against paul especially on a mental capacity. after the sinnoh league he was pushed to his limit so, in lack of better terms, needed to recover.

honestly one of the reasons why the cottonee episode is one of my favorite episodes in BW (among others) is because it shows that Ash is an experienced trainer that can teach others (the cottonee). reminds me of me honestly. I train people all the time at my job but there's moments where even i can't remember this or that and i'm the store manager. things happen. we're human lol (and we go back to #1 up above!)

THAT SAID THOUGH

i'm curious about your headcanon for bw!ash to xy!ash! I actually have one myself which makes me really curious hahah.
 

CodeHelmet

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*Yawns* <- How the Anime has been for the last 2+ years. If your hypothesis with regards to Unova being a vacation of sorts for Ash, then SuMo is that on steroids. Anyways, I watched a Breath of the Wild synopsis and it really reminded me of SuMo due to how drastically different it was compared to previous Zelda titles(just as SuMo is a clear departure from previous Pokemon series). BotW was basically Windwaker in terms of exploration but had tidbits of other titles, notably OoT with regards to Mipha falling in love with Link(similar to Ruto in OoT). A bit repetitive for my liking though but high marks for the open world exploration.
 
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45.

i still haven't watch any sumo so it'd be wrong to really have a headcanon but from what i know about sumo i have an idea to continuity sake. but unlike dppt to bw the reset was very explicit to the point that even ash's jp va had a "only gone through kanto" mindset for him when doing his lines so.
 

CodeHelmet

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Only gone through Kanto mindset? Are you freaking serious? No wonder he comes across as an 8-year old as opposed to 10 or something even older like in XY/XYZ. Have yet to watch the latest Episode but apparently Kiawe acquires another Z-Crystal, foreshadowing another capture for him to be able to use it. Question is what Pokemon will Kiawe catch?
 
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47.

hahah i highly doubt that. while i haven't watched any sun/moon i feel like you're over-exaggerating from little I have seen through tumblr and such. and i wish i had an answer for you but maybe someone will show up here and give you one
 

Meadow

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48.

Anyways, I watched a Breath of the Wild synopsis and it really reminded me of SuMo due to how drastically different it was compared to previous Zelda titles(just as SuMo is a clear departure from previous Pokemon series).

Yup, the convention-breaking of Breath of the Wild does certainly remind me of the Sun & Moon anime! Though, I also think BotW reminds me of the "I Choose You" movie as well, since both were sort of advertised as anniversary reboots of their respective source material, haha.


oh boy ok i'm gonna copy+paste what i said in discord (with a few tweaks)

1. people always comment about how he makes simple mistakes and forget things he's already learned etc etc. well... he's ten. i don't know about you but when i was ten i would often forget simple things and make dumb mistakes again here and there. hell i'm 26 and i still do that sort of thing so it's not like it's out of the norm especially since it's been a while since you've drawn that information out of it/you're trying to draw it out under pressure. sometimes you can forget even the simplest of details. THAT SAID--
2. unova was supposed to have been a vacation between him and his mother before he decided to set out on his journey. i'd like to say that he was kinda put on "vacation mode as a result" and also because of--
3. his adventures in sinnoh put him in situations that ash had never dealt with before. especially his struggles against paul especially on a mental capacity. after the sinnoh league he was pushed to his limit so, in lack of better terms, needed to recover.

honestly one of the reasons why the cottonee episode is one of my favorite episodes in BW (among others) is because it shows that Ash is an experienced trainer that can teach others (the cottonee). reminds me of me honestly. I train people all the time at my job but there's moments where even i can't remember this or that and i'm the store manager. things happen. we're human lol (and we go back to #1 up above!)

THAT SAID THOUGH

i'm curious about your headcanon for bw!ash to xy!ash! I actually have one myself which makes me really curious hahah.

I'm totally with you on your headcanon! I also end up making simple mistakes all the time, ahaha. But regarding your third point, I can especially relate to that. Speaking as a (former??) tennis player, there have been certain days where I felt like I had surpassed my maximum level of performance by a huge margin, only to badly regress the next day and stay in a slump for a while. Playing against players who are at a far higher skill level than me forces me to adjust to their pace, but then after that, I'd have a difficult time adjusting back to slower-paced players. Achieving consistency is a lot harder than it sounds, especially when pressure situations are involved. ;__;

AND OMG THE COTTONEE EPISODE WAS ONE OF MY FAVS TOO!! <3 It was just soooo adorable, ahhh!

I'll get back to you soon about my headcanon once I have a chance to fully type it up! I've never had anyone to share it with before haha, so I want to make sure to get my thoughts together! This should be fun! :D
 
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48.I'm totally with you on your headcanon! I also end up making simple mistakes all the time, ahaha. But regarding your third point, I can especially relate to that. Speaking as a (former??) tennis player, there have been certain days where I felt like I had surpassed my maximum level of performance by a huge margin, only to badly regress the next day and stay in a slump for a while. Playing against players who are at a far higher skill level than me forces me to adjust to their pace, but then after that, I'd have a difficult time adjusting back to slower-paced players. Achieving consistency is a lot harder than it sounds, especially when pressure situations are involved. ;__;

AND OMG THE COTTONEE EPISODE WAS ONE OF MY FAVS TOO!! <3 It was just soooo adorable, ahhh!

I'll get back to you soon about my headcanon once I have a chance to fully type it up! I've never had anyone to share it with before haha, so I want to make sure to get my thoughts together! This should be fun! :D
49.

YAY I'M GLAD TO HEAR IT it's nice to hear someone who is not an old rp partner agree on my headcanon for it hahah. and i'm glad that my points have real life validation to it as well!!

IT WAS AND now i kinda wanna watch it maybe i will when i get the chance. maybe rewatch some of my other old favorites as well.

and yes please do! can't wait to hear what your headcanon for it is!
 

Meadow

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50.

YAY I'M GLAD TO HEAR IT it's nice to hear someone who is not an old rp partner agree on my headcanon for it hahah. and i'm glad that my points have real life validation to it as well!!

IT WAS AND now i kinda wanna watch it maybe i will when i get the chance. maybe rewatch some of my other old favorites as well.

For sure!! :D I know how that feels, especially since Best Wishes fans are so rare haha!

Saaaaaame, I've been itching to watch more BW episodes again! About a year ago I started stocking up on BW episodes for a music ripping project (since we STILL don't have a soundtrack almost 10 years later ughhh), but it was also an excuse for me to rewatch them in the process! A long time ago, I remember I used to dislike Decolora Adventure for the lack of an overarching story, but then after rewatching a lot of it recently, I found that many of the episodes are incredibly fun and adorable! Like the Jirachi and Caterpie ones, which are also my favorites. <3


and yes please do! can't wait to hear what your headcanon for it is!

Alrighty, here we go! My headcanon mainly focuses on Ash's mentality near the end of Best Wishes, and how that mentality greatly influenced his characterization in XY. A lot of people often say that the XY series "fixed" Ash by throwing BW!Ash's character out the window, but I don't believe this to be the case. While Ash's character did sorta get re-worked after DP to give BW a fresher start, I feel that XY directly builds upon BW!Ash's character instead of re-working him again.

I personally think Iris' and Cilan's departure made a really big impact on Ash's growth as a person. You know how whenever you experience the same type of feeling multiple times, it has a decreasing effect on you each time? When Ash parted ways with Misty and Brock at the end of the original series, he practically broke down crying. However, he wasn't as sad to part ways with his friends in AG and DP because that experience was no longer new to him. But seeing how radically different Unova was, his journey in BW was the freshest start that Ash has ever experienced, so he was naturally re-stimulated compared to his previous two journeys. That's why it initially didn't cross his mind that Iris and Cilan would also eventually leave him, but once he finally realized it, it became a turning point for Ash's character. Let's closely observe the expression Ash makes when the BW gang arrives at the Kanto region near the end of the series:

(Gonna quickly make a GIF here!)

mrCmNkH.gif


Ash is usually the type of person who gets easily amped up, but this was a rather rare expression for him to make. When he gazed into his friends' eyes here, he started to sense that they might want to set off on their own separate journeys. He's still smiling because he's genuinely happy to see his friends eager to chase their dreams, but you can tell from his smile that he's also trying to hold back sadness... sadness that his premonition would come true. That old, familiar feeling has once again reawakened after a long time. Although his adventures in Unova were different from his past adventures, Ash realized that not even this journey would be immune to goodbyes.

And then after Iris and Cilan finally left him, Ash was essentially given the entirety of the next episode to reflect on both the past and the future. During the scene where Ash daydreamed about all of his previous traveling companions, it felt to me like he was coming to terms with the idea that all of his future adventures might conclude the same way. But even in spite of the goodbyes, he still values meeting new people and cherishing old friendships. And that brings us to XY! Throughout the XY series, Ash acts like a great role model that all of his friends look up to. By now, he already knows from the very beginning that his new friends will eventually find their own dreams to pursue, and he is mentally prepared for it this time around. That's why XY!Ash feels like he's a LOT more supportive of his friends than he previously was, and that's also why he always goes an extra 100 miles to help push his friends in the right direction. Though as a result of his past experiences, Ash is noticeably unfazed when he parts ways with his Kalos friends. Rather than being sad about it, he instead focuses on making sure all of his friends get the proper closure they need so they can chase their dreams.

So TL;DR: Each of Ash's previous farewells have gradually shaped him as a person, but I believe his parting with Iris and Cilan in particular—combined with the time he spent reflecting in the final episode of BW—was the final straw that pushed Ash to become the way he is in XY.
 

CodeHelmet

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Interesting take on BW Ash I must admit. However, are we all in agreement that SuMo Ash can be, I don't know, hard to tolerate at times? In a way it almost seems like he's in an AU(Alternate Universe) but the first Episode kind of dumps water on that theory. In any case, what plans does PokeTrivia have for the upcoming Get Together later this year? Believe someone stated they were going to kick my butt so I'm curious as to how that's going to be accomplished
 
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52.

I thought i responded earlier lmao. Anyways I pretty much agree with all of this!! I mean, this was the first time that both his companions left after one region. And with all the other goodbyes he's had it just makes sense tbh. The only thing I would add to this headcanon is the fact that something that I thought about in terms of why Ash seemed to know what he was doing more in XY than in BW and it all comes down to the league. He placed further in BW's league than in DP's league and he's seen reflecting on that in the last episode (or was it the episode before it i don't remember). Either way he reflected on it and I think it made him realize his set-back and that he was going to move forward and push himself more than he did in BW. So while in BW he went to Unova as some sort of vacation he does to XY with the though in mind that this is a new step on my journey and I will progress further in my dream.

Thus why he's also in more of a mentor role with Clemont and Serena because he's taking everything he learned from BW (and before) and using it to not only make him a better trainer but Serena and Clemont as well. And it's one aspect that I really did like with XY!Ash but there was something about him that was missing compared to BW (and even DP!Ash) aha. Again I hope this all makes sense it's almost my bedtime lmao.

I might ... no I will be around this Get - Together this year, though chances are I'll be focusing more on the social media aspect of it than the forum aspect (or rather I wouldn't be surprised if I end up doing that). Events reminds me of the events that I used to hold for this place (and speaking of things I used to hold someone should go do my dumb mewtwo crossword lmao).
 

CodeHelmet

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Eh I won last year but apparently someone was a bit peturbed when they came in 2nd. Funny thing is, my performance pales to previous years and I haven't even been here that long. Anyways, Grand Trial Battle is coming up. Once Ash gets the final trial, League should be starting soon.
 
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54

shrug i wasn't here like at all last year so

almost to the league but no sign of the next generation yet. either this means lots of filler episodes or arc to fill to void. maybe whatever they haven't done with ultra sun/ultra moon or whatever. can't wait i've been up on anything this generation.
 

CodeHelmet

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shrug i wasn't here like at all last year so

almost to the league but no sign of the next generation yet. either this means lots of filler episodes or arc to fill to void. maybe whatever they haven't done with ultra sun/ultra moon or whatever. can't wait i've been up on anything this generation.

55

Topics they've yet to cover:
Guzma and Team Skull <- Plumeria only just appeared like in Episode 104 I think and it was brief. Team Skull needs redemption and big time.
Rainbow Rocket <- unlikely considering Team Rocket was around for Necrozma arc and was basically a non-factor. Disappointment really
Alolan League: Everything points to it with the Japanese opening.

A side-arc they could have is the search for Lillie's Dad, although they could use that as a means for Gladion and Lillie to leave Alola. Since the final Grand Trial battle is slated for tomorrow(or today for those ahead of me time wise), SuMo doesn't have much longer to go. Kalos was only 140 Episodes long and SuMo is about to air 109. Based on what I have listed above, you'd be hard pressed to hit 140 with that.
 
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