Gender Identity

I believe there's actually been a bit of a misunderstanding.

This is relevant to gender identity so I'll publicly reply to just this part.

PhoenixIgnition said:

The first comment I replied to on this topic was by Raven who said 'we don't identify, we are.'

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I'm not Raven but I'd wager this just means trans-men are valid men, tran-women are valid women. Nothing explicit about biology! So I'd hope to think we can all agree on that!

Fairy said:

As for myself.. I think I have a hard time differentiating between body dysmorphia and gender dysphoria. It's a very nuanced and complex issue.

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Raven said:

I actually have both lol ;_; I dislike my body profoundly and it plays a major role in my self esteem.

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What is the difference exactly? I had always thought that gender dysphoria was more or less something along the lines of "this body isn't right and I hate it", but going by what you've said that might not actually not the case (and chances are what I was thinking of is body dysmorphia instead?), so if someone could clarify....

I wish I could provide a more clinical answer. All I have are my own feelings to go off of.

I hate parts of my body and I view them through an irrational lens, but I don't necessarily feel like they're "not mine". I don't believe dysmorphia is exclusive to sexual characteristics, though it can include them. From what I understand about gender dysphoria, it mostly focuses on the features and functions that makes one present as more feminine or masculine. But again, I am by no means an expert.

i have gender dysphoria. for me at least it's sort of like.. ah. it's hard to explain. i feel like the body i was born in... doesn't fit me? it isn't mine. no to get tmi, but, im fine with my bottom part. it's mostly just my chest area that bothers me. if i were to get rid of that, or at least get it reduced, i'd probably have a lot less gender dysphoria.

i dunno. it's hard to explain. i'm trying to explain it in a way thats easy to understand, but even i have a hard time understanding it sometimes myself. idk why i am the way i am.

Cisgendered woman. I feel like I model the stereotype well, too. Not super in to "masculine" interests and activities. My room looks like unicorn vomit.

Fairy said:

I wish I could provide a more clinical answer. All I have are my own feelings to go off of.

I hate parts of my body and I view them through an irrational lens, but I don't necessarily feel like they're "not mine". I don't believe dysmorphia is exclusive to sexual characteristics, though it can include them. From what I understand about gender dysphoria, it mostly focuses on the features and functions that makes one present as more feminine or masculine. But again, I am by no means an expert.

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Basically this, yeah. Gender dysmorphia is when you look at your body and feel cognitive distress related to how your self-interpretation and -evaluation of gender identity does not match that with which you were assigned at birth. Body dysmorphia is different in that it affects your interpretation of your physical body as being constantly imperfect in some highly distressing ways. For example, the anoxeric individual who looks in the mirror and sees obesity. What he is seeing is a perception that does not actually match reality, but it is his/her reality with very real consequences, thus why it is self-destructive and medically serious if left to its own whims.

Another example that is less typical includes the person who is obsessed with people being able to see body hair that is essentially invisible and cannot not be preoccupied with tweasing out what may or may not actually be there to begin with. This latter example may also border on OCD depending on what else presents itself alongside this behaviour. A psychiatrist would have to determine if it is body dysmorphia, OCD, or a little bit of both.

"PhoenixIgnition" said:

x

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I just wanted to point out that intersexuality is not rare; it is relatively common, more than we think as there is a horrendous stigma and lack of standardization as to what constitutes intersexuality exactly. There are also people who are unaware that they are intersex as their parents did not divulge that information or neither them nor their parents know. Then there is the international context: who knows how many exist elsewhere, were the victims of feticide or infanticide, perished prematurely as a result of malnutrition, etc.

There are also a plethora of intersexual realities: XXY, X0, etc. being some examples.

Really, we have zero way to measure as there is no operational definition of intersexuality that is used in the medical profession outside of the handful of chromosome-related types; in many cases, it is up to the doctor's discretion, in which case medical professions do assign sex and convince the parents to submit their kid to traumatic, painful and — worst yet — unnecessary surgeries that cause problems throughout the lifespan.

Well uh, a while ago I was kinda questioning my gender and I came to a conclusion a long time ago but I haven't been very active on this site...
But I identify completely as female now
I considered being nonbinary for a bit, and simply leaning towards one side, because I did have times where I was fine with my body, but as time has gone on those times have become increasingly rare.
I really don't know what else to say aside from that. Progress has been painfully slow, and I look no different now then I did 10 months ago, which is kinda sad, and at the rate I'm going, it's likely going to be 2 years before I can actually get HRT or anything else that would help with that.
And the government just sucks. Despite living in one of the best areas in the country, none of this is an easy process.

This is my final message regarding this thread. My feelings were hurt when I was told I was transphobic and unaware of the LGBT community because neither of those were true. I was raised by lesbian parents and know fully well what the community has put up with. In fifth grade, a girl laughed at me when she found out I had two Moms. One of my Mothers was also physically attacked for her sexuality.The issues the community have put up with were and still are horrible.

I was also raised to treat others the way I wanted to be treated. That mindset has become ingrained into me and I even apply it to those I morally disagree with. (For example I despise the notion that vaccinations cause autism, but I don't get hostile towards people who believe it.) I should have remembered not every person has that philosophy.

I hope I didn't come off as pushy when posting here. I apologize if I may have offended anyone. I accept your apology.

No idea why people even have to bring science into this to prove that transgender people are valid and not mentally ill (which is true) when you could just... you know... treat people with kindness and respect? Is it really that hard? Is it really that hard to just be a good person and call someone by the name/pronoun they prefer? Seriously- what do you have to lose?

I honestly do not care what a person does with their body, if they want to wear a different gender's clothes than their birth gender then that's fine, if they want to get surgery then that is fine. However with any medicial procedure, from surgery to puberty blockers, it needs to happen after the person has reached the age of maturity. Aka adult hood or 18 years old.

The reason I bring this up specifically is there is a story making the rounds of a divorce in which if the mother gets custody, she will place the child on puberty blockers and into gender confirmation therapy when the child is possibly not transgender.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/11/26...on-girl-threatens-dad-losing-son-disagreeing/

Furthermore while what you do to yourself is your own business. You should not expect people to conform to how you see yourself. If a person does not want to call you by a preferred pronoun, then the best thing to do is just to be asked to be referred to by your name. The same pretty much goes with bathrooms, if people do not feel comfortable with you in a bathroom because your genoder identity does not match your birth gender, the best thing to do is accept it and find a family or shared restroom.

Basically what I am saying is if you want to be transgender, transracial, trans species, or what ever trans age is, that is up to you, and if you are an adult you can modify your body however you want. Just do not get angry when someone does not conform to your view of how you see yourself.

noa said:

No idea why people even have to bring science into this to prove that transgender people are valid and not mentally ill (which is true) when you could just... you know... treat people with kindness and respect? Is it really that hard? Is it really that hard to just be a good person and call someone by the name/pronoun they prefer? Seriously- what do you have to lose?

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Some people may not feel comfortable with using a pronoun that they believe does not fit, or may believe a pronoun like Xie or Xer sounds silly and do not want to even pronounce it. Some transgender advocates say there is a infinite number of pronouns to fit an infinite number of genders. A lot of people may not feel comfortable using what in essence they believe is a made up pronoun for a person.

You also have the issue of male privilege which comes up in many feminist circles. Someone who has lived most of their life as a biological male is seen as having succeeded with male privilege and thus identifying them as female confirms on them a gender that they did not grow up and suffer the problems of as they grew up.

EnglishALT said:

Some people may not feel comfortable with using a pronoun that they believe does not fit, or may believe a pronoun like Xie or Xer sounds silly and do not want to even pronounce it. Some transgender advocates say there is a infinite number of pronouns to fit an infinite number of genders. A lot of people may not feel comfortable using what in essence they believe is a made up pronoun for a person.

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idk if that really answers noa's question of "what do you have to lose" though.

"It makes me uncomfortable" is hardly a reason to not do something like refer to someone by the name and pronouns that they prefer (which, I have never heard anyone at all say that they seriously want to be referred to with anything other than the standard he/she/they sets outside of like, tumblr).

noa said:

No idea why people even have to bring science into this to prove that transgender people are valid and not mentally ill (which is true) when you could just... you know... treat people with kindness and respect? Is it really that hard? Is it really that hard to just be a good person and call someone by the name/pronoun they prefer? Seriously- what do you have to lose?

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because for some people the concept of treating transgender with respect and *gasp* treating them as the gender they identify as is apparently mind-boggling

the sad state of things

colours said:

hell yeah it does, but I mean, the sad truth of the matter is that the world is slow to change and slow to accept. i can't speak for every transgender person out there, but i imagine if you're living in a country (or area, even) where transphobia is ever rampant, you're not exactly going to be in a rush to correct every person that refers to you by your biological sex. by doing so, you risk outing yourself and putting your own self and your own life in danger. this seems rather extreme, but violence against transgender folk isn't exactly uncommon.

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Thanks for explaining. I don't believe I've ever met a transgender person offline, not that I know of. (As you said, many are afraid to out themselves.) Yet on a forum like PC it seems as if most members identify as trans. So I was suddenly immersed in it all and that can get really confusing for someone like me, haha.

It is unfortunate that transgenders need to explain themselves every time somebody gets them wrong. Is there any way one can identify an individual as transgender and confidently refer to them as such without first being told? The pronoun I use upon meeting people is based on the biological sex I perceive them to be—it can't really be any other way without leading to confusion and possibly upsetting people. But I do respect how individuals feel about their pronouns. For example, put simply, if a man asked me to refer to him as a she, I'd obligingly do so. I'd have no problem with that whatsoever. :o It's curious to think that anyone would.

In the case of women, around here they can be as masculine as they want and people will shrug them off as "butch" (or tomboy for younger women), and in most cases a lesbian. But at least they can safely express themselves as the gender they identify with—to a degree. But it seems that men have a much, much harder time. :/ I wish men could go out in a wig and makeup and even a dress without risking their own life or getting arrested—that's just infuriating! This needs to change. I want to see feminine clothing designed to suit and flatter masculine bodies and I want this to become normal so transgender men (or indeed any man with a feminine streak) can express themselves with the same amount of freedom that women can.

colours said:

I'd really love to express my gender a lot more, but considering that I'm not even out to my own family yet, I essentially feel trapped. The best I can do is "act" stereotypically girly of course, which gets interpreted as flamboyance, which leads people to just assume I'm a Humongous Homosexual Maximus.

close enough I guess.

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Ouch, I know the feeling of being caged inside the pigeonhole people have assigned you to. I can't speak for everyone but that can so easily manipulate you into being the person you're not. :/ For me it isn't to do with gender—I love femininity and embrace my own, but I could just as happily dress as a punk (for instance) and still feel comfortable. The problem is, I'm afraid to switch up like that and express my ever-changing persona because of all the disdain I'd get. And that's nothing compared to what transgenders and the like go through!

colours said:

everything.

I have a burning hatred or the way I look. I hate looking at myself in the mirror, knowing that the person that's looking back isn't truly me. I cannot express enough how disgusted I feel at my own physical body on a day to day basis. It's one of the biggest factors contributing to my depression. Idk how else to explain it really; I just detest everything physical about me and want to change it all. That's all there is to it.

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Everything you've said so far sounds completely normal. There is really nothing different and certainly nothing "wrong" with transgenderism.

This hatred you speak of, would you call it body dysphoria or gender dysphoria? Or neither? I understand they are two different things and I don't mean to suggest you have dysphoria of any sort.

I feel exactly the same way about certain aspects of my own body and I think most people do. Perhaps not as strongly, but it's wrong to say that transgenders have a mental illness for any feelings of self-loathing or inner conflict they might have over their body. :/

Society's black-and-white view of what's normal and what's not is driving me mad, I swear.

EnglishALT said:

I honestly do not care what a person does with their body, if they want to wear a different gender's clothes than their birth gender then that's fine, if they want to get surgery then that is fine. However with any medicial procedure, from surgery to puberty blockers, it needs to happen after the person has reached the age of maturity. Aka adult hood or 18 years old.

The reason I bring this up specifically is there is a story making the rounds of a divorce in which if the mother gets custody, she will place the child on puberty blockers and into gender confirmation therapy when the child is possibly not transgender.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/11/26...on-girl-threatens-dad-losing-son-disagreeing/

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I don't know about this article or news story - I can't find any source on it that isn't from an extremely conservative-based news website that says the mom is forcing "Transgenderism" onto the child.

EnglishALT said:

Furthermore while what you do to yourself is your own business. You should not expect people to conform to how you see yourself. If a person does not want to call you by a preferred pronoun, then the best thing to do is just to be asked to be referred to by your name. The same pretty much goes with bathrooms, if people do not feel comfortable with you in a bathroom because your genoder identity does not match your birth gender, the best thing to do is accept it and find a family or shared restroom.

Basically what I am saying is if you want to be transgender, transracial, trans species, or what ever trans age is, that is up to you, and if you are an adult you can modify your body however you want. Just do not get angry when someone does not conform to your view of how you see yourself.

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People should be addressed by their preferred pronouns, and should be allowed to use the bathroom associated with their gender.

Trans-racial, trans-species, and trans-age are only are brought up as false equivalent, slippery-slope-esque examples. Furthermore "if you want to be" implies a choice re: being trans. One does not wake up one day and simply decide to be trans.

I think that's enough. Let's give everybody a break from the gender talk.