The PokéCommunity Forums Pokémon Gaming Previous Generations
6th Gen Evolution/Pre-evolution Speculation


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #376    
Old February 6th, 2013 (3:25 PM).
François's Avatar
François François is offline
#FutureSun&MoonMod
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Batisques
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Serious
Posts: 396
Druddigon is already massive though. There's some room for growth in the stats department but I'm not sure where they'd go aesthetically. Barely anyone even likes it anyway, I doubt GF see much demand for anything related to Druddigon ever again.

But maybe that's just my dislike for it coming through.
__________________

Reply With Quote

Relevant Advertising!

  #377    
Old February 6th, 2013 (4:09 PM).
Alpha King's Avatar
Alpha King Alpha King is offline
Man's Best Friend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA (MD)
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Relaxed
Posts: 1,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by François View Post
Druddigon is already massive though. There's some room for growth in the stats department but I'm not sure where they'd go aesthetically. Barely anyone even likes it anyway, I doubt GF see much demand for anything related to Druddigon ever again.

But maybe that's just my dislike for it coming through.
How.dare.you. Druddigon is obviously the best Unova Pokemon, and there are many others out there besides myself who love Druddi. But maybe that's my love love for him coming through.

But yeah, I agree, I don't want him to get an evolution. He's good enough as is IMO.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #378    
Old February 6th, 2013 (4:24 PM).
Xander Olivieri's Avatar
Xander Olivieri Xander Olivieri is offline
     
    Join Date: Jun 2010
    Gender: Other
    Nature: Hasty
    Posts: 5,601
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by François View Post
    Druddigon is already massive though. There's some room for growth in the stats department but I'm not sure where they'd go aesthetically. Barely anyone even likes it anyway, I doubt GF see much demand for anything related to Druddigon ever again.

    But maybe that's just my dislike for it coming through.
    There was no real reason to evolve any of the Pokemon that Gamefreak evolved in the past. They evolve them because they want to add to their lines. That's all the reason they need. If they look at Druddigon and go: "Hey lets make it evolve!" we'll get a Druddigon Evo.
    __________________
    Reply With Quote
      #379    
    Old February 6th, 2013 (4:36 PM).
    François's Avatar
    François François is offline
    #FutureSun&MoonMod
     
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Location: Batisques
    Age: 22
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Serious
    Posts: 396
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
    If they look at Druddigon and go: "Hey lets make it evolve!" we'll get a Druddigon Evo.
    Yes, and they're more likely to think like that if said pokémon they're discussing isn't already massive and hugely unpopular.
    __________________

    Reply With Quote
      #380    
    Old February 6th, 2013 (4:38 PM).
    Guy Guy is offline
    just a guy
     
    Join Date: Sep 2008
    Location: Florida
    Age: 26
    Gender: Male
    Posts: 7,133
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Elendil View Post
    Pinsir's the one who needs an evolution, not Scizor. I dunno what typing it could get, but a Pinsir evolution would be cool to see. Hopefully we get a Druddigon one too, if only cause a 1 stage dragon is kind of lame.
    Completely agree with this, and I can honestly see Pinsir evolving into a Bug/Steel should it ever get one.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
    There was no real reason to evolve any of the Pokemon that Gamefreak evolved in the past. They evolve them because they want to add to their lines. That's all the reason they need. If they look at Druddigon and go: "Hey lets make it evolve!" we'll get a Druddigon Evo.
    The way I've always thought about it, GameFreak probably has gone through tons of evolutionary ideas for many of the Pokémon who currently don't have any, and while some of them got them, some of them probably didn't make it. As most of us know, many of the designs go through trials and they are constantly changing before a final design is decided upon. Remember, Torchic? I think GameFreak comes up with a lot of concepts and ideas that either don't make it into the games or are left on the back burner for a later time.

    But, I agree, it doesn't matter if we think a Pokémon needs an evolution or not. If GameFreak wants it, they'll make it.
    Reply With Quote
      #381    
    Old February 6th, 2013 (5:16 PM).
    Xander Olivieri's Avatar
    Xander Olivieri Xander Olivieri is offline
       
      Join Date: Jun 2010
      Gender: Other
      Nature: Hasty
      Posts: 5,601
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by François View Post
      Yes, and they're more likely to think like that if said pokémon they're discussing isn't already massive and hugely unpopular.
      Golbat, Aipom, Misdreavous, Magmar, Roselia, Magneton, Nosepass, Lickitung, Tangela, Kirlia, Snorunt.

      These weren't that popular from what I remember, though I wasn't involved with internet chats then. A lot of those I can't really see a justified reason for evolution beyond, well we just felt like adding on. Not even for the split evolutions on the last two. Some have fairly popular evolutions now too.
      __________________
      Reply With Quote
        #382    
      Old February 6th, 2013 (5:40 PM).
      François's Avatar
      François François is offline
      #FutureSun&MoonMod
       
      Join Date: Jan 2013
      Location: Batisques
      Age: 22
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Serious
      Posts: 396
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
      Golbat, Aipom, Misdreavous, Magmar, Roselia, Magneton, Nosepass, Lickitung, Tangela, Kirlia, Snorunt.

      These weren't that popular from what I remember, though I wasn't involved with internet chats then. A lot of those I can't really see a justified reason for evolution beyond, well we just felt like adding on. Not even for the split evolutions on the last two. Some have fairly popular evolutions now too.
      All of which were small pokémon with fairly unimpressive stats! Many being Gen I alone made them popular enough via nostalgia to be worth evolving (especially to deal with power creep and whatnot) but to me Druddigon would very much be an odd one out among that list. Were I to pick an exception to the "rule" of sorts I suggest, it would surely be Dusclops, whose evolution was just bizarre. GameFreak making another exception out of Druddigon isn't impossible, obviously, but I don't see it happening.
      __________________

      Reply With Quote
        #383    
      Old February 6th, 2013 (5:49 PM).
      François's Avatar
      François François is offline
      #FutureSun&MoonMod
       
      Join Date: Jan 2013
      Location: Batisques
      Age: 22
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Serious
      Posts: 396
      Well Roselia for sure didn't have nostalgia, not being Gen I. But I always found that to be quite a popular pokémon/line anyway. Is it possible to resist that fabulousness?!

      I suppose in reality, it comes down to whether or not anyone at GF can imagine a good evo for the pokémon in question. To me Druddigon always came across as a future forgotten relic of V, but who knows really.
      __________________

      Reply With Quote
        #384    
      Old February 6th, 2013 (5:51 PM).
      Ho-Oh's Avatar
      Ho-Oh Ho-Oh is offline
      used Sacred Fire!
       
      Join Date: Nov 2005
      Age: 26
      Gender: Female
      Nature: Bold
      Posts: 35,630
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by François View Post
      Druddigon is already massive though. There's some room for growth in the stats department but I'm not sure where they'd go aesthetically. Barely anyone even likes it anyway, I doubt GF see much demand for anything related to Druddigon ever again.

      But maybe that's just my dislike for it coming through.
      y I agree. Druddigon is boring design-wise, and drawing attention to it just seems useless. It was a filler Pokemon imo and the most I see it getting is a cute pre-evolution, but no evolution. ;(
      __________________

      so it's gonna be forever... or it's gonna go down in flames
      Spinoffs Mod & Head of Facebook Team
      Reply With Quote
        #385    
      Old February 6th, 2013 (5:56 PM).
      Xander Olivieri's Avatar
      Xander Olivieri Xander Olivieri is offline
         
        Join Date: Jun 2010
        Gender: Other
        Nature: Hasty
        Posts: 5,601
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by François View Post
        All of which were small pokémon with fairly unimpressive stats! Many being Gen I alone made them popular enough via nostalgia to be worth evolving (especially to deal with power creep and whatnot) but to me Druddigon would very much be an odd one out among that list. Were I to pick an exception to the "rule" of sorts I suggest, it would surely be Dusclops, whose evolution was just bizarre. GameFreak making another exception out of Druddigon isn't impossible, obviously, but I don't see it happening.
        Druddigon is only 20 points better than Magneton. Magmar is stronger than Druddigon by 10 points. So Druddigon falls in a perfect spot. Electabuzz and Magmar IMO didn't need to evolve at all. They were pretty good on their own.

        As for size, Golbat is the same size as Druddigon. Don't think size thing is a fairly valid defense against.
        __________________
        Reply With Quote
          #386    
        Old February 6th, 2013 (6:02 PM).
        François's Avatar
        François François is offline
        #FutureSun&MoonMod
         
        Join Date: Jan 2013
        Location: Batisques
        Age: 22
        Gender: Male
        Nature: Serious
        Posts: 396
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
        Druddigon is only 20 points better than Magneton. Magmar is stronger than Druddigon by 10 points. So Druddigon falls in a perfect spot. Electabuzz and Magmar IMO didn't need to evolve at all. They were pretty good on their own.

        As for size, Golbat is the same size as Druddigon. Don't think size thing is a fairly valid defense against.
        Magneton and Magmar weren't big, and Golbat didn't have good stats. Druddigon is the only one in the list who is big, has decent stats and is generally disliked.

        But I did basically concede the point anyway, were I at GameFreak and I somehow came up with a concept to make Druddigon look any less horrendous than it currently does, I would probably release it regardless of the circumstances surrounding the pokémon I'm evolving.
        __________________

        Reply With Quote
          #387    
        Old February 6th, 2013 (6:03 PM).
        roosterman's Avatar
        roosterman roosterman is offline
        Freaking annoying!
           
          Join Date: Sep 2012
          Location: The moon
          Gender: Male
          Nature: Brave
          Posts: 249
          i wants the wobbuffet evolution, wobbanuat! other then that, a combee pre and maybe a dugtrio evolution, dugquartet.
          __________________

          pokemon black 2 friend code: 1979 8164 1100
          my best battle video: 72-38989-76548. tell me your thoughts!
          "Believe it or not, angels crap much more than other beings. Ever wonder why the phrase "holy crap" is so popular?" -macomuu
          Reply With Quote
            #388    
          Old February 6th, 2013 (6:08 PM).
          Ho-Oh's Avatar
          Ho-Oh Ho-Oh is offline
          used Sacred Fire!
           
          Join Date: Nov 2005
          Age: 26
          Gender: Female
          Nature: Bold
          Posts: 35,630
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
          Druddigon is only 20 points better than Magneton. Magmar is stronger than Druddigon by 10 points. So Druddigon falls in a perfect spot. Electabuzz and Magmar IMO didn't need to evolve at all. They were pretty good on their own.

          As for size, Golbat is the same size as Druddigon. Don't think size thing is a fairly valid defense against.
          n Druddigon has all that but generally the fanbase likes it a lot less (I know Weighty does but...) given that almost 90% of the community here (that participates in B/W) voted for it in terms of the worst. It just didn't stand out and if it did get an evolution it would just seem unnecessary. Magneton on the other hand was actually really liked back then from what I recall. ;(
          __________________

          so it's gonna be forever... or it's gonna go down in flames
          Spinoffs Mod & Head of Facebook Team
          Reply With Quote
            #389    
          Old February 6th, 2013 (6:11 PM).
          vaporeon7's Avatar
          vaporeon7 vaporeon7 is offline
          My life would suck without you
           
          Join Date: Aug 2010
          Location: Preparing for trouble and making it double.
          Gender: Male
          Nature: Adamant
          Posts: 5,152
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by roosterman View Post
          i wants the wobbuffet evolution, wobbanuat! other then that, a combee pre and maybe a dugtrio evolution, dugquartet.
          A Combee pre-evolution would be too weak, Combee is one of the weakest Pokémon as it is.

          They wouldn't have to make a Druddigon evolution too powerful. Take a look at Scizor for example, it didn't get a higher BST after evolving, it just had it's stats changed around. They could do that if they wanted.
          __________________
          Reply With Quote
            #390    
          Old February 6th, 2013 (7:40 PM).
          OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
          OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire is offline
          10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
             
            Join Date: Apr 2010
            Location: Oregon
            Age: 23
            Gender: Male
            Nature: Careful
            Posts: 17,517
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
            Except Scizor was pretty much Scyther on some pretty strong steroids. That and it's typing really helped it, not letting it being weak to stealth rock as well as Poison spikes/other entry hazards except spikes. In order for something similar to happen to Druddigon, I would imagine they would have to add an additional type of some sort(probably dragon/flying? But then we'd have an inferior Dragonite, won't we?).

            I guess it goes to show that even switching around stats could prove to make a Pokemon to be twice as powerful than it already is. XD
            Lol many of those moves you mentioned that scizor's good against didn't even exist back in generation II when it was made...

            I can see Druddigon become Dragon/Steel or Dragon/Rock as it'll fit nicely with it's rough skin ability, also Dragon/Steel would give it a lot of help competively that it wouldn't need a very large stat increase.
            __________________
            I'm currently working on some novels. If you're interested you can read them here:
            https://www.wattpad.com/user/ImperialSun
            Reply With Quote
              #391    
            Old February 6th, 2013 (8:11 PM).
            Munchlax11's Avatar
            Munchlax11 Munchlax11 is offline
            Munch?
               
              Join Date: Jul 2012
              Location: USA
              Age: 20
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Serious
              Posts: 198
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire View Post
              Lol many of those moves you mentioned that scizor's good against didn't even exist back in generation II when it was made...

              I can see Druddigon become Dragon/Steel or Dragon/Rock as it'll fit nicely with it's rough skin ability, also Dragon/Steel would give it a lot of help competively that it wouldn't need a very large stat increase.
              I would love to see a Dragon/Steel evolution for Druddigon. Plus I agree that it wouldn't need a big stat increase. I would love to see that evolution, but I would prefer evolutions from generations before gen V. I feel like gen V is still too fresh in our minds. Although I wouldn't mind seeing some evolutions from gen V (like a Druddigon dragon/steel evo) I want to see evolutions from some earlier gen pokemon.... Like perhaps dunsparce and pinsir? I think those pokemon need evolutions
              __________________

              |Ever Grande City Forums|My Profile|PM|Pokemoon Chatbox

              Pokemon X
              3DS FC: 2852-7439-1811
              (VM if you add) :)
              Reply With Quote
                #392    
              Old February 6th, 2013 (8:30 PM).
              roosterman's Avatar
              roosterman roosterman is offline
              Freaking annoying!
                 
                Join Date: Sep 2012
                Location: The moon
                Gender: Male
                Nature: Brave
                Posts: 249
                Quote:
                Originally Posted by vaporeon7 View Post
                A Combee pre-evolution would be too weak, Combee is one of the weakest Pokémon as it is.

                They wouldn't have to make a Druddigon evolution too powerful. Take a look at Scizor for example, it didn't get a higher BST after evolving, it just had it's stats changed around. They could do that if they wanted.
                its not really for competitive play but more because it makes no sense that it starts out as 3 pokemon together. but they could make it learn some moves its evolutions can't learn. kind of like how wynaut seems kind of pointless until you notice that it learns encore which is a great move for wobbuffet to know.
                __________________

                pokemon black 2 friend code: 1979 8164 1100
                my best battle video: 72-38989-76548. tell me your thoughts!
                "Believe it or not, angels crap much more than other beings. Ever wonder why the phrase "holy crap" is so popular?" -macomuu
                Reply With Quote
                  #393    
                Old February 6th, 2013 (8:34 PM).
                Ho-Oh's Avatar
                Ho-Oh Ho-Oh is offline
                used Sacred Fire!
                 
                Join Date: Nov 2005
                Age: 26
                Gender: Female
                Nature: Bold
                Posts: 35,630
                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
                Dragon/Steel as a typing would be a pretty interesting concept~! Weaknesses would be somewhat of a worry for Druddigon's possible evolution(what with being weak to Ground and Fighting, two common types in competitive), I can definitely see it being more lethal then, as long as it's stats aren't ridiculously off the charts. XD

                At least that way it could possibly be used more since it would have a better type? I'd at least appreciate it being somewhat faster!
                n it wouldn't be used in OU imo. It seems like it'd stay in the lower tiers because in general I'm not sure why anyone would want to use a Druddigon evolution. ;(
                __________________

                so it's gonna be forever... or it's gonna go down in flames
                Spinoffs Mod & Head of Facebook Team
                Reply With Quote
                  #394    
                Old February 7th, 2013 (1:00 AM).
                Ho-Oh's Avatar
                Ho-Oh Ho-Oh is offline
                used Sacred Fire!
                 
                Join Date: Nov 2005
                Age: 26
                Gender: Female
                Nature: Bold
                Posts: 35,630
                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
                Also, Encore isn't so much a great move anymore since it got nerfed in 5th gen from 6 turns to 3 turns(I think), so it's more or less kind of useless. :x

                Never said it would be OU. It'd best be safer in something like NU or RU, tbh.
                n I'd say UU, actually. Given that its child would be in RU (or possibly higher given it has Eviolite in this situation) I think it'd be higher given it'd most likely be more powerful~

                Also Encore is still good: meet Liepard. ;)
                __________________

                so it's gonna be forever... or it's gonna go down in flames
                Spinoffs Mod & Head of Facebook Team
                Reply With Quote
                  #395    
                Old February 7th, 2013 (1:29 AM).
                MiTjA's Avatar
                MiTjA MiTjA is offline
                Poké-atheist
                   
                  Join Date: Mar 2005
                  Location: Slovenia
                  Age: 28
                  Nature: Serious
                  Posts: 587
                  I wanna add to the Pinsir-evo discussion from last page.


                  Frankly, I don't think it's gonna happen...since they gave it a new bro in Heracross right away... And with Scyther gaining no stats with evolution, its much more like a forme than an evolution..except its one-way.
                  What I'm trying to say is, Scyther can still be regarded as an end-stage Pokemon. Its not like every other pre-evolution which you just wanna evolve. So Pinsir and Scyther are still meant to be "compared", if that's the right word.

                  But I wish Pinsir would get one anyway, because its new bro, Heracross has this unfair extra Fighting type, which basically makes it much closer to Scizor in usefulness, while Pinsir is barely ever used even though its stats are 500 total like the other two...

                  As for the type it would gain.
                  Steel? No, if they were to do that, it wuld have been with Metal Coat along Scizor.
                  Fighting? Eh, that would make it more like Heracross than is healthy.

                  Nope, what Pinsir already looks like it could gain is....the other very special type...that was introduced alongside Steel: Dark.


                  But lets get realistic. The best one could hope for Pinsir is to gain a Bug type Quick Attack move called Beetle Smack or something xDDDD
                  __________________
                  Reply With Quote
                    #396    
                  Old February 7th, 2013 (5:32 AM).
                  Platinum Lucario's Avatar
                  Platinum Lucario Platinum Lucario is offline
                  The Legendary Master of <font color="#D8D48C">Light</font>!
                   
                  Join Date: Jan 2008
                  Location: Warrnambool, Victoria, Australia.
                  Age: 25
                  Gender: Male
                  Nature: Calm
                  Posts: 1,564
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by MiTjA View Post
                  I wanna add to the Pinsir-evo discussion from last page.


                  Frankly, I don't think it's gonna happen...since they gave it a new bro in Heracross right away... And with Scyther gaining no stats with evolution, its much more like a forme than an evolution..except its one-way.
                  What I'm trying to say is, Scyther can still be regarded as an end-stage Pokemon. Its not like every other pre-evolution which you just wanna evolve. So Pinsir and Scyther are still meant to be "compared", if that's the right word.

                  But I wish Pinsir would get one anyway, because its new bro, Heracross has this unfair extra Fighting type, which basically makes it much closer to Scizor in usefulness, while Pinsir is barely ever used even though its stats are 500 total like the other two...

                  As for the type it would gain.
                  Steel? No, if they were to do that, it wuld have been with Metal Coat along Scizor.
                  Fighting? Eh, that would make it more like Heracross than is healthy.

                  Nope, what Pinsir already looks like it could gain is....the other very special type...that was introduced alongside Steel: Dark.


                  But lets get realistic. The best one could hope for Pinsir is to gain a Bug type Quick Attack move called Beetle Smack or something xDDDD
                  Actually, anything is possible! It doesn't have to always be traded with a Metal Coat that would turn a Pokémon into a Steel-type. Think of Leafeon for instance, it didn't evolve with a Leaf Stone, it evolved while leveling up next to a moss covered rock in every games prior to Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. ;)

                  It would be cool to see a new evolution of Pinsir. And who knows? It could end up having wings and exoskeleton covering it's wings like the beetles found in real life, and would end up appearing in a similar form to Heracross, but much more metallic. :D
                  __________________
                  [Platinum Lucario's Signature]
                  If you need to disable my signature, please give me some advice on how to improve the CSS-DIV code. Thanks!
                  Signature Status: Strikes: 1/3 | Infractions: 0/3
                  It's time to change the future...
                  to a positive direction!

                  Let's prevent things from getting bad!

                  I'm a ROM and ISO Researcher
                  Current Project: Researching Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Adventure Squad games (WiiWare)
                  Reply With Quote
                    #397    
                  Old February 7th, 2013 (6:32 AM).
                  Ho-Oh's Avatar
                  Ho-Oh Ho-Oh is offline
                  used Sacred Fire!
                   
                  Join Date: Nov 2005
                  Age: 26
                  Gender: Female
                  Nature: Bold
                  Posts: 35,630
                  I want fighting. ;( Because then Pinsir can be the better Sawk of NU for a while! And that'll be v good imo. :3
                  __________________

                  so it's gonna be forever... or it's gonna go down in flames
                  Spinoffs Mod & Head of Facebook Team
                  Reply With Quote
                    #398    
                  Old February 7th, 2013 (6:42 AM).
                  Ho-Oh's Avatar
                  Ho-Oh Ho-Oh is offline
                  used Sacred Fire!
                   
                  Join Date: Nov 2005
                  Age: 26
                  Gender: Female
                  Nature: Bold
                  Posts: 35,630
                  n they can be different. Like Gastrodon, Seismitoad and Quagsire are different. :)
                  __________________

                  so it's gonna be forever... or it's gonna go down in flames
                  Spinoffs Mod & Head of Facebook Team
                  Reply With Quote
                    #399    
                  Old February 7th, 2013 (6:45 AM).
                  Sirius's Avatar
                  Sirius Sirius is offline
                  Wrong Thread.
                     
                    Join Date: May 2009
                    Age: 23
                    Gender: Male
                    Nature: Hardy
                    Posts: 53
                    Main wants - Flying/Fighting Farfetch'd evo, Shuckle evo, Dunsparce Evo, Stunfisk evo.

                    Simply because those pokemon have no real validity to them. Sure Shuckle can be a good wall, but he can't really do anything before Toxic finishes him off.
                    __________________


                    Reply With Quote
                      #400    
                    Old February 7th, 2013 (4:26 PM).
                    Pinkie-Dawn's Avatar
                    Pinkie-Dawn Pinkie-Dawn is offline
                    Vampire Waifu
                       
                      Join Date: Dec 2012
                      Location: California
                      Age: 25
                      Gender: Male
                      Nature: Quirky
                      Posts: 9,501
                      I sincerely hope the only evolution to a Gen 1 Pokemon to appear in Gen VI is the rumored Eeveelution, because I'm trying to add 8 Pokemon on my reorganized Kanto dex to make it 190, as what GF was originally going to include in the first game, and I'm using the cross-gen evos that added up to 182 (or 183 if we include the new Eeveelution).
                      __________________
                      Reply With Quote
                      Reply

                      Quick Reply

                      Join the conversation!

                      Create an account to post a reply in this thread, participate in other discussions, and more!

                      Create a PokéCommunity Account

                      Sponsored Links
                      Thread Tools

                      Posting Rules
                      You may not post new threads
                      You may not post replies
                      You may not post attachments
                      You may not edit your posts

                      BB code is On
                      Smilies are On
                      [IMG] code is On
                      HTML code is Off

                      Forum Jump


                      All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:07 AM.