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Favorite main female companion

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View Poll Results: Who is your favorite main female companion in the anime?
Misty (OS) 18 21.95%
May (AG) 4 4.88%
Dawn (DP) 30 36.59%
Iris (BW) 6 7.32%
Serena (XY) 19 23.17%
Lillie (SM) 5 6.10%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26    
Old August 21st, 2017 (9:10 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
    Yeah, and it also doesn't help that thanks to AG, the gym leaders came across as being as big of weaklings as JJM were, which also proceeded to make Misty look bad as well. Say what you will about the Kanto gym leaders during the Indigo League, or even the Johto gym leaders during the Johto saga, at least those guys, Misty's sisters aside, came across as quite badass even IF they ultimately paled in comparison to the Elite 4. What's worse, even the last time we ever actually see her in the flesh had her implying she didn't even WANT to go back to the gym, but then Daisy pretty much threatened to hand out badges if she didn't comply. That's not even remotely a good end for her at all, and I get very irritated when people who are otherwise massive Misty fans imply that Misty got a good end when she became Gym Leader since she's at least "doing something." Is being a punching bag, and her not even liking the experience at all, even WORTH giving her at least some abilities beyond being Ash's support (ignoring of course she did PLENTY of stuff outside of simply being Ash's "girlfriend" anyway.).
    I totally agree with this. Misty didn't want to be stuck in some gym as a punching bag, and I never liked how the show used the gym to force Misty out of the cast instead of just having her go off to travel on her own.

    That's probably the thing that bothers me the most about Misty's exit compared to any of the other companions. She's the only one who didn't leave on her own free will and was literally kicked out of the show. Talk about a lack of respect for her character. :rolleyes2:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
    Why should all of Ash's companions be doing what he does? His companions have the right to choose their own path. If they want to do contests then who are we to judge. Female companions should not be Ash 2.0. They should be original. The first three female companions have proved that.
    It's one thing for an individual girl to shun battles and become a beauty queen, but it's another for almost *all* of them to go down that route. That smacks of sexism.

    Misty was a battler, but she was far from being an "Ash 2.0." Her goal was still very different from his, and the other girls could've also been given roles that were different from his, but still involved battling rather than playing dress-up.
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      #27    
    Old August 21st, 2017 (9:36 PM).
    Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by BettyNewbie View Post
      It's one thing for an individual girl to shun battles and become a beauty queen, but it's another for almost *all* of them to go down that route. That smacks of sexism.

      Misty was a battler, but she was far from being an "Ash 2.0." Her goal was still very different from his, and the other girls could've also been given roles that were different from his, but still involved battling rather than playing dress-up.
      I don't see any sexism in that. I think people just say that because they are salty that there hasn't been a battler since Misty.

      The are plenty female battlers even if they not the companion. I think they want the female companions to show case the features that also appear in the games such as contests.

      I don't see a problem to be honest but to each his own. I just hope gen 8 finally gives us a good female companion. Had not got one since Dawn but that is my opinion.
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        #28    
      Old August 22nd, 2017 (8:47 AM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
        Why should all of Ash's companions be doing what he does? His companions have the right to choose their own path. If they want to do contests then who are we to judge. Female companions should not be Ash 2.0. They should be original. The first three female companions have proved that.
        You mean the first two companions because Dawn is a May 2.0 but with more character development than her.
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          #29    
        Old August 22nd, 2017 (9:33 AM).
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          Apparently, this person's been banned now, but I still want to address this:

          Quote:
          I don't see any sexism in that. I think people just say that because they are salty that there hasn't been a battler since Misty.

          The are plenty female battlers even if they not the companion. I think they want the female companions to show case the features that also appear in the games such as contests.
          It should be very obvious that the show used contests as a "girl ghetto" alternative to badges. They put more focus on fashion and beauty over battling (thus, sending home the message that girls exist to look pretty), and they're treated as "equivalent" to the gym quest while in reality being far more trivial and less important. In the games, contests are little more than a frivolous sidequest that's 100% optional and will never lead to an end credit screen like beating the Champion.

          Yes, there have been male coordinators on the show, but they were all secondary characters, they were all overtly effeminate, and they were still outnumbered by female coordinators. It's plainly obvious that contests are considered a traditionally female domain, and it *is* sexist to constantly see female characters on the show being reduced to a lesser occupation that revolves entirely around beauty and places less importance on traits like strength and intelligence.

          As I've said before in the thread, I'm not asking that every girl be a tomboy. I'm simply asking that girls on this show not be objects and actually show brains and ambition. That's my problem with May, Dawn, and Serena. They existed to be objects, pretty little girls who never threatened or otherwise challenged Ash and happily stuck to their "place" as coordinators/performers.
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            #30    
          Old August 22nd, 2017 (10:27 AM).
          Rad Dudesman Rad Dudesman is offline
             
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            You have a point regarding Coordinators.

            Except for maybe Zoey, Ash himself was the most conventionally "masculine" character we ever saw participate in a Contest.
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              #31    
            Old August 22nd, 2017 (2:42 PM). Edited August 23rd, 2017 by weedle_mchairybug.
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by BettyNewbie View Post
              Apparently, this person's been banned now, but I still want to address this:



              It should be very obvious that the show used contests as a "girl ghetto" alternative to badges. They put more focus on fashion and beauty over battling (thus, sending home the message that girls exist to look pretty), and they're treated as "equivalent" to the gym quest while in reality being far more trivial and less important. In the games, contests are little more than a frivolous sidequest that's 100% optional and will never lead to an end credit screen like beating the Champion.

              Yes, there have been male coordinators on the show, but they were all secondary characters, they were all overtly effeminate, and they were still outnumbered by female coordinators. It's plainly obvious that contests are considered a traditionally female domain, and it *is* sexist to constantly see female characters on the show being reduced to a lesser occupation that revolves entirely around beauty and places less importance on traits like strength and intelligence.

              As I've said before in the thread, I'm not asking that every girl be a tomboy. I'm simply asking that girls on this show not be objects and actually show brains and ambition. That's my problem with May, Dawn, and Serena. They existed to be objects, pretty little girls who never threatened or otherwise challenged Ash and happily stuck to their "place" as coordinators/performers.
              Fully agreed there. If the games DID portray them as being an equivalent to Gym Battles, right down to actually unlocking the ending if you beat something akin to the Elite 4, that's ONE thing, and I could at least tolerate it. But that's not what it did. You could skip it without it even impacting the story at all. At most, the only relevancy Contests have is evolving your Feebas into a Milotic simply to get its Pokedex entry (which is a notorious pain in the butt to do since you need to find the specific nature of Feebas you need), and even there, Contests don't even play a direct role in the evolution. You could just feed them a whole lot of the relevant berries and, voila, you got yourself a Milotic.

              And quite frankly, having them focus solely on beauty doesn't work well at all in showing the girls' strengths and intelligence as you pointed out. Even though I'm personally not particularly fond of the Disney Princess franchise as a whole for similar reasons as to what you yourself stated regarding May, Dawn, and Serena, at least the individual members of the franchise had various traits beyond simply being beautiful that made them endearing to various people, including intellect, perserverence even when the odds look bleak, bravery, innocence, and in some cases like Ariel being a genuine badass who kicked butt and took names (and BTW, other than Belle and Merida, a lot of the girls were very feminine in that franchise, yet they still managed to be endearing to a whole LOT of people, not just girls). And let's not forget about Dead or Alive. Even the girls there ultimately showed traits beyond merely looking beautiful (and believe me, considering how famous, or rather, infamous the series is regarding how the girls looked, that's saying a lot), especially intellect regarding strategy and battle, and ambition/perserverence. Even Honoka, arguably the girliest of the DOA females, at least had her just enjoying watching or even participating in fights as a key personality trait for her beyond simply being girly. And the girls there also embraced their femininity as well. If even Team Ninja could get it right, why can't the Pokémon anime creators regarding the girls after Misty?

              And yeah, agreed there, it's hard for us guys to even get involved in contests when they literally just aren't our thing. The only consistently present male coordinator who is even remotely masculine is that Salaryman guy, and even there, considering he randomly changes appearance, it's not even clear if he's the same guy every time. I'm not counting Ash since he only did a one-off contest with May as their "farewell." And another thing that annoyed me with all the girls after Misty is that many of them joined up with Ash when they could easily just travel by themselves. Misty at least had something of an excuse, as did Iris. Probably the closest any of the girls have besides those two that actually HAS a somewhat valid reason for traveling with Ash is Serena.
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                #32    
              Old August 22nd, 2017 (2:57 PM). Edited August 22nd, 2017 by Rad Dudesman.
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                I'm not counting Ash since he only did a one-off contest with May as their "farewell."
                Ash also took part in two contests in Sinnoh: the Jubilife Contest, and the Wallace Cup.
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                  #33    
                Old August 22nd, 2017 (3:56 PM).
                weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is online now
                   
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Rad Dudesman View Post
                  Ash also took part in two contests in Sinnoh: the Jubilife Contest, and the Wallace Cup.
                  Okay, I stand corrected then. Still, it wasn't something he generally had much interest in.
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                    #34    
                  Old August 22nd, 2017 (10:47 PM).
                  CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is offline
                     
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                    Its true that contests are primarily a Female thing(heck the Kalos showcases are exclusively Female...) but the fact they're predominantly Female doesn't make them(May, Dawn and Serena) any less important to the Anime. The games center around the Gym/League arc that Ash takes the lead in doing as the Male protagonist so they give the Female lead the leftovers or all the new side challenges and oddities the newer generation games now have. What they ought to do is give a Female lead the same interests that Ash has in challenging the Gym's and corresponding League, thereby giving him a Female traveling companion who is also his regional rival.

                    Instead of doing the performer arc that was a neutered form of Pokemon Contests(basically performing without any battling), Serena would have been better served to have adopted the Gym arc like Ash. Not only would it finally give us a strong Female protagonist(Misty was decent, with Iris slightly better in that she actually defeated Ash to win a Tournament. But neither of them did Gym's. Rather they were Gym Leaders instead). With Serena on the Gym arc, it would have been interesting to see how she handled having a crush on Ash while pursuing her dream of winning the Kalos League(hence having to balance love and rivalry, not to mention fighting Ash for Pokemon to catch).

                    Had they gone that route, Serena would have been the Trainer Ash faced in the Kalos League Finals and Ash would have won like we all wanted him to(with Serena indifferent as she wins either way(namely she wins the Kalos League or her crush does)). Not saying they did anything wrong with Serena in XY(I'm perfectly fine with the Performer Arc... just wish it didn't take her 60 freaking Episodes to finally have her debut).
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                      #35    
                    Old August 23rd, 2017 (9:00 AM). Edited August 23rd, 2017 by BettyNewbie.
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                      Fully agreed there. If the games DID portray them as being an equivalent to Gym Battles, right down to actually unlocking the ending if you beat something akin to the Elite 4, that's ONE thing, and I could at least tolerate it. But that's not what it did. You could skip it without it even impacting the story at all. At most, the only relevancy Contests have is evolving your Feebas into a Milotic simply to get its Pokedex entry (which is a notorious pain in the butt to do since you need to find the specific nature of Feebas you need), and even there, Contests don't even play a direct role in the evolution. You could just feed them a whole lot of the relevant berries and, voila, you got yourself a Milotic.
                      And, Contests are only relevant to Feebas' evolution in Gens 3/4 and ORAS. In all of the other games released since Gen 5, it evolves by being traded with the Prism Scale instead. And, why, because those games don't have Contests (and thus no way to increase its Beauty stat), so GF needed to create a new way for Feebas to evolve.

                      What does that say about Contests' importance to the franchise when GF was so easily able to dump them after Gen 4? And, seeing as none of the post-Gen 4 games have had Contests besides the remakes of games that originally had Contests (ORAS), it doesn't look like GF has any intention of ever bringing them back.

                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                      And quite frankly, having them focus solely on beauty doesn't work well at all in showing the girls' strengths and intelligence as you pointed out. Even though I'm personally not particularly fond of the Disney Princess franchise as a whole for similar reasons as to what you yourself stated regarding May, Dawn, and Serena, at least the individual members of the franchise had various traits beyond simply being beautiful that made them endearing to various people, including intellect, perserverence even when the odds look bleak, bravery, innocence, and in some cases like Ariel being a genuine badass who kicked butt and took names (and BTW, other than Belle and Merida, a lot of the girls were very feminine in that franchise, yet they still managed to be endearing to a whole LOT of people, not just girls). And let's not forget about Dead or Alive. Even the girls there ultimately showed traits beyond merely looking beautiful (and believe me, considering how famous, or rather, infamous the series is regarding how the girls looked, that's saying a lot), especially intellect regarding strategy and battle, and ambition/perserverence. Even Honoka, arguably the girliest of the DOA females, at least had her just enjoying watching or even participating in fights as a key personality trait for her beyond simply being girly. And the girls there also embraced their femininity as well. If even Team Ninja could get it right, why can't the Pokémon anime creators regarding the girls after Misty?
                      Fully agree. {:3} Nothing about femininity is incompatible with strength and intelligence, and May/Dawn/Serena being girlier than Misty wouldn't have been a problem if there were more to them than just being fanservicey beauty queens and "waifus." Just look at what Dawn and Serena themselves do when they're actual player characters -- take down the Evil Team and become Champion, all while still wearing a miniskirt/dress.

                      In a lot of ways, what happened with May is far worse than Dawn/Serena, as May's original design was hardly girly, and early artwork of her mostly portrayed her as a strong, heroic character. Combine that with the fact that May was the first female protagonist to debut in a generation (Kris came first, but she was a mid-generation addition), and that the games went out of their way to portray the male PC as an ignorant sexist when you played as May, and it's evident that GF wanted May to be seen as a strong role model for girls.

                      Then the show gave May an oversized chest and turned her into an annoying bimbo who preferred contests to battling, and the rest was history. GF already started to subtly redesign game!May to look girlier (and more in line with her anime counterpart) in Emerald by putting her in a minidress, and they went full-blown with it in ORAS by giving her an extremely frilly (and skinny) new look and having her prance around in a pink tutu when doing Contests.

                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                      And another thing that annoyed me with all the girls after Misty is that many of them joined up with Ash when they could easily just travel by themselves. Misty at least had something of an excuse, as did Iris. Probably the closest any of the girls have besides those two for traveling with Ash is Serena.
                      And, Serena's reason revolved entirely around a crush (which was clearly done for marketing/fanservice purposes, like loads of other things in the XY arc), which doesn't exactly reflect well on her. Misty may have had a crush on Ash, but there was still more to her character. She still had her own backstory and goal that existed separately from Ash's.

                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by CodeHelmet View Post
                      What they ought to do is give a Female lead the same interests that Ash has in challenging the Gym's and corresponding League, thereby giving him a Female traveling companion who is also his regional rival.

                      Instead of doing the performer arc that was a neutered form of Pokemon Contests(basically performing without any battling), Serena would have been better served to have adopted the Gym arc like Ash. Not only would it finally give us a strong Female protagonist(Misty was decent, with Iris slightly better in that she actually defeated Ash to win a Tournament. But neither of them did Gym's. Rather they were Gym Leaders instead). With Serena on the Gym arc, it would have been interesting to see how she handled having a crush on Ash while pursuing her dream of winning the Kalos League(hence having to balance love and rivalry, not to mention fighting Ash for Pokemon to catch).

                      Had they gone that route, Serena would have been the Trainer Ash faced in the Kalos League Finals and Ash would have won like we all wanted him to(with Serena indifferent as she wins either way(namely she wins the Kalos League or her crush does)). Not saying they did anything wrong with Serena in XY(I'm perfectly fine with the Performer Arc... just wish it didn't take her 60 freaking Episodes to finally have her debut).
                      I love this idea. The Kalos games don't even have Contests, so it didn't even make sense from a marketing perspective to create a form of pseudo-Contests and make Serena another performer/beauty queen. Serena is a rival when you don't play has her, so why not give her a role that actually reflected the one she had in the games? It would've made for far more interesting storytelling, too.
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                        #36    
                      Old August 23rd, 2017 (1:05 PM).
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                      You're taking things way too seriously guys... Remember, this is a simple poll thread. Also, this is the anime, which means it's different than the Pokemon games, so please don't compare it. One last thing, I don't want to see any post again regarding May's chest or something like this please.
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                        #37    
                      Old August 23rd, 2017 (6:09 PM).
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                        Does Lillie represent the entirety of the SM female supporting cast? There are three of them to be fair XD

                        I'd Argue Mao and Suiren over her any day... tho Lillie has the most character development over the three of them so far.
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                          #38    
                        Old August 23rd, 2017 (8:17 PM).
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                        yo i voted misty
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                          #39    
                        Old August 24th, 2017 (1:37 AM).
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by CidHazard View Post
                          Does Lillie represent the entirety of the SM female supporting cast? There are three of them to be fair XD

                          I'd Argue Mao and Suiren over her any day... tho Lillie has the most character development over the three of them so far.
                          Ah, translation on who Mao and Suiren are?
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                            #40    
                          Old August 24th, 2017 (2:57 AM).
                          Rad Dudesman Rad Dudesman is offline
                             
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by CidHazard View Post
                            Does Lillie represent the entirety of the SM female supporting cast? There are three of them to be fair XD

                            I'd Argue Mao and Suiren over her any day... tho Lillie has the most character development over the three of them so far.
                            No, Lillie is just Lillie.

                            Mallow and Lana are more like supporting characters. Only Lillie is really a "main" character.
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                              #41    
                            Old August 24th, 2017 (4:59 AM).
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                            Quote:
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                            Ah, translation on who Mao and Suiren are?
                            Mao = Mallow

                            Suiren = Lana

                            That's if you were wondering.
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                              #42    
                            Old August 24th, 2017 (6:32 AM).
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                            Yeah, I think it would be better if you use the English name, guys.
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                              #43    
                            Old August 24th, 2017 (7:09 AM).
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                              Quote:
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                              Yeah, I think it would be better if you use the English name, guys.
                              Sorry kinda used to referring to them by their Japanese names{XD}

                              I still think that both Lana and Mallow should be included in the poll tho... they are still part of the supporting cast just like Lillie is.

                              Or remove Lillie on the poll altogether, since she's not really a companion per se.
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                                #44    
                              Old August 24th, 2017 (7:41 AM).
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by CidHazard View Post
                              Sorry kinda used to referring to them by their Japanese names{XD}

                              I still think that both Lana and Mallow should be included in the poll tho... they are still part of the supporting cast just like Lillie is.

                              Or remove Lillie on the poll altogether, since she's not really a companion per se.
                              Haha it's ok, don't worry! As for the poll, I agree with you!
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                                #45    
                              Old August 24th, 2017 (8:49 AM).
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                                Quote:
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                                Sorry kinda used to referring to them by their Japanese names{XD}

                                I still think that both Lana and Mallow should be included in the poll tho... they are still part of the supporting cast just like Lillie is.

                                Or remove Lillie on the poll altogether, since she's not really a companion per se.
                                Finally another person that doesnt consider lillie as a main girl companion! <3
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                                  #46    
                                Old August 24th, 2017 (10:33 AM). Edited August 24th, 2017 by Rad Dudesman.
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                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by CidHazard View Post
                                  Sorry kinda used to referring to them by their Japanese names{XD}

                                  I still think that both Lana and Mallow should be included in the poll tho... they are still part of the supporting cast just like Lillie is.

                                  Or remove Lillie on the poll altogether, since she's not really a companion per se.
                                  Lillie's on the same level of importance as the main female companions from previous series. She gets significantly more focus than Mallow or Lana do.
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                                    #47    
                                  Old August 24th, 2017 (11:55 AM).
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                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Rad Dudesman View Post
                                    Lillie's on the same level of importance as the main female companions from previous series. She gets significantly more focus than Mallow or Lana do.
                                    Its hard to say she's the main when all three have had about an equal amount of air time and character development so far in the series. The reason I agree with you though that Lillie is the main lead is the fact she's related to the chief rival to Ash in Gladion(her brother) and the chief antagonist in the series in Lusamine(her Mother) and Aether Foundation. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the Sun and Moon hasn't really begun and is why I feel she should be excluded from this list due to the fact Sun and Moon is not even finished with its first season. By the time Sun and Moon ends, we will have a far different opinion on Lillie as a character.
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                                      #48    
                                    Old August 24th, 2017 (6:02 PM). Edited August 24th, 2017 by VisionofMilotic.
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                                      I voted Iris. She and Misty both have the qualities that I prefer. I'm up for a lady who can make me laugh, who will tease you, try to one-up you and may even be a bit flighty. I like them colorful and fiesty, and feel as though too many of Ash's female friends are Mary Sues.

                                      I really could have gone either way with the two aforementioned heroines, but gave Iris the edge because I find her relationship with Dryden endearing. She works with my favorite species of Pokemon dragons and she became champion in game, has an amazing battle theme and put up a pretty good fight-- I think she was stronger than Alder who became before her and Diantha who came after. I know this thread is more about the anime, but just saying I like her in all formats!
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                                        #49    
                                      Old August 24th, 2017 (7:47 PM).
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                                      Spirit Shackle Spirit Shackle is offline
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                                      Dawn participated in the best series of the anime, and had my favorite team. Plus, she actually did stuff. Her contests were far more interesting than May's imo, and Serena's thing that I can't remember the name of was a waste of an episode every time it showed up. Misty is kinda just there, Iris is kinda just there but with more personality, and Lillie hasn't actually done anything yet. Plus I just liked her character.
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                                        #50    
                                      Old August 24th, 2017 (10:17 PM). Edited August 24th, 2017 by Piii.
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                                      Piii Piii is offline
                                         
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                                        Misty was a really great character and her personality was done to earth, she was the best female character the anime ever had, the show hasn't been the same since she left.
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