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Was Ash's Johto pokemon handled poorly during Johto?

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  #1    
Old December 12th, 2017 (6:00 PM).
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strangerhypno strangerhypno is offline
     
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    I think so, Cyndaquil and Totodile were unevolved and the rest were also relatively underpowered. Ash had to rely on some of his Kanto Pokemon for the 8th gym and the Johto league. I think his Johto pokemon got the shaft more than any of his other Pokemon. Heracross got dumped way to early at Oaks too. Phanpy was still a baby.

    What do you think?
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      #2    
    Old December 12th, 2017 (7:15 PM).
    Kuzehiko's Avatar
    Kuzehiko Kuzehiko is offline
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      Yes, they were.
      His team was fully unevolved and as you say even Heracross got dumped away at early Johto episodes. I also think they were somewhat overpowered like Ash's Bayleef beating Houndoom? On the other hand I think they didn't make his team evolve so they'd have an excuse to bring Ash's old team back which is pretty sad.
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        #3    
      Old December 12th, 2017 (7:19 PM).
      Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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        Of course. Ash's Kanto hog the spotlight. Johto team is the only team to not have a fully evolved member. Phanpy evolved a lot later. Good thing Ash didn't use just johto for the league. He would have been defeated around top 16 if lucky.
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          #4    
        Old December 12th, 2017 (8:00 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
          Of course. Ash's Kanto hog the spotlight. Johto team is the only team to not have a fully evolved member. Phanpy evolved a lot later. Good thing Ash didn't use just johto for the league. He would have been defeated around top 16 if lucky.
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
          Yes, they were.
          His team was fully unevolved and as you say even Heracross got dumped away at early Johto episodes. I also think they were somewhat overpowered like Ash's Bayleef beating Houndoom? On the other hand I think they didn't make his team evolve so they'd have an excuse to bring Ash's old team back which is pretty sad.
          His Johto team was not poorly handled because they did got to have atleast one win each in the Johto League.

          Ash did use his Johto Team with his Kanto team during the Pokemon League. They didn't make his team evolve because they wanted to show that they can become strong battlers in their basic forms and Phanpy evolve in the Battle Frontier saga, that doesn't really count.

          His proof they wasn't poorly handled.

          Johto League

          The battle one on one Process screening

          Pikachu vs Salvadors Furret. Pikachu wins

          Phanpy vs unown trainers Machoke. Phanpy wins

          Cyndaquil vs unown trainer Exeggutor. Cyndaquil wins

          Three on three battle

          Ash vs Macey

          Totodile vs Macey's Slugma. Macey recalled Slugma

          Macey sent out Electabuzz.

          Totodile vs Electabuzz. Ash recalled Totodile

          Ash sent out Phanpy.

          Phanpy vs Electabuzz. Macey recalled Electabuzz

          Macey sent out Slugma

          Phanpy vs Slugma. Phanpy wins

          Macey sent out Quilava

          Phanpy vs Quilava. Quilava wins

          Ash sent out Totodile

          Totodile vs Quilava. Quilava is recalled

          Macey sent out Electabuzz

          Electabuzz vs Totodile. Electabuzz wins

          Ash sent out Squirtle

          Squirtle vs Electabuzz. Squirtle wins

          Macey sent out Quilava

          Squirtle vs Quilava. Squirtle wins

          Ash vs Jackson

          Ash sent out Pikachu

          Jackson sent out Azumarill

          Pikachu vs Azumarill. Pikachu wins

          Jackson sent out Magneton

          Pikachu vs Magneton. Magneton wins

          Ash sent out Cyndaquil

          Cyndaquil vs Magneton. Magneton wins

          Ash sent out Bulbasaur

          Bulbasaur vs Magneton. Bulbasaur wins

          Jackson sent out Meganium

          Bulbasaur vs Meganium . both end in a draw


          Ash vs Gary

          Ash sent out Tauros

          Gary sent out Nidoqueen

          Tauros vs Nidoqueen. Nidoqueen wins

          Ash sent out Heracross

          Gary recalled Nidoqueen

          Gary sent out Magmar

          Second round

          Magmar vs Heracross. Heracross wins

          Gary sent out Blastoise

          Blastoise vs Heracross. Blastoise wins

          Ash sent out Muk

          Muk vs Blastoise. Muk is recalled

          Ash sent out Bayleef

          Bayleef vs Blastoise. Blastoise wins

          Gary recalled Blastoise

          Ash sent out Snorlax

          Gary sent out Arcanine

          Snorlax vs Arcanine. Snorlax wins

          Gary sent Nidoqueen back out

          Snorlax vs Arcanine. Snorlax wins

          Gary sent out Scizor

          Snorlax vs Scizor. Scizor wins

          Ash sent Muk back out

          Muk vs Scizor. Scizor wins

          Ash sent out Charizard

          Charizard vs Scizor. Charizard wins

          Gary sent out Golem

          Charizard vs Golem. Charizard wins

          Gary sent out Blastoise

          Charizard vs Blastoise. Charizard wins

          Ash vs Harrison

          Ash sent out Pikachu

          Harrison sent out Kecleon

          Pikachu vs Kecleon. Pikachu wins

          Harrison sent out Sneasel

          Pikachu vs Sneasel. Sneasel wins

          Ash sent out Totodile

          Totodile vs Sneasel. Totodile wins

          Harrison sent out Hypno

          Totodile vs Hypno. Hypno wins

          Ash sent out Snorlax

          Snorlax vs Hypno. Snorlax wins

          Ash recalled Snorlax

          Harrison sent out Steelix



          Steelix vs Noctowl. Steelix wins

          Ash sent Snorlax back out

          Snorlax vs Steelix. Snorlax wins


          Harrison sent out Houndoom

          Snorlax vs Houndoom. Houndoom wins

          Ash sent out Bayleef

          Bayleef vs Houndoom. Bayleef wins

          Harrison sent out Blaziken

          Blaziken vs Bayleef. Blaziken wins

          Ash sent out Charizard

          Charizard vs Blaziken. Blaziken wins



          This should be enough proof for you to see the Pokemon that he used in Johto, it also show that Johto team did get to have at least one win each at the Johto League.
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            #5    
          Old December 12th, 2017 (8:23 PM). Edited December 12th, 2017 by Kuzehiko.
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Piii View Post
            His Johto team was not poorly handled because they did got to have atleast one win each in the Johto League.

            Ash did use his Johto Team with his Kanto team during the Pokemon League. They didn't make his team evolve because they wanted to show that they can become strong battlers in their basic forms and Phanpy evolve in the Battle Frontier saga, that doesn't really count.

            His proof they wasn't poorly handled.

            Johto League

            The battle one on one Process screening

            Pikachu vs Salvadors Furret. Pikachu wins

            Phanpy vs unown trainers Machoke. Phanpy wins

            Cyndaquil vs unown trainer Exeggutor. Cyndaquil wins

            Three on three battle

            Ash vs Macey

            Totodile vs Macey's Slugma. Macey recalled Slugma

            Macey sent out Electabuzz.

            Totodile vs Electabuzz. Ash recalled Totodile

            Ash sent out Phanpy.

            Phanpy vs Electabuzz. Macey recalled Electabuzz

            Macey sent out Slugma

            Phanpy vs Slugma. Phanpy wins

            Macey sent out Quilava

            Phanpy vs Quilava. Quilava wins

            Ash sent out Totodile

            Totodile vs Quilava. Quilava is recalled

            Macey sent out Electabuzz

            Electabuzz vs Totodile. Electabuzz wins

            Ash sent out Squirtle

            Squirtle vs Electabuzz. Squirtle wins

            Macey sent out Quilava

            Squirtle vs Quilava. Squirtle wins

            Ash vs Jackson

            Ash sent out Pikachu

            Jackson sent out Azumarill

            Pikachu vs Azumarill. Pikachu wins

            Jackson sent out Magneton

            Pikachu vs Magneton. Magneton wins

            Ash sent out Cyndaquil

            Cyndaquil vs Magneton. Magneton wins

            Ash sent out Bulbasaur

            Bulbasaur vs Magneton. Bulbasaur wins

            Jackson sent out Meganium

            Bulbasaur vs Meganium . both end in a draw


            Ash vs Gary

            Ash sent out Tauros

            Gary sent out Nidoqueen

            Tauros vs Nidoqueen. Nidoqueen wins

            Ash sent out Heracross

            Gary recalled Nidoqueen

            Gary sent out Magmar

            Second round

            Magmar vs Heracross. Heracross wins

            Gary sent out Blastoise

            Blastoise vs Heracross. Blastoise wins

            Ash sent out Muk

            Muk vs Blastoise. Muk is recalled

            Ash sent out Bayleef

            Bayleef vs Blastoise. Blastoise wins

            Gary recalled Blastoise

            Ash sent out Snorlax

            Gary sent out Arcanine

            Snorlax vs Arcanine. Snorlax wins

            Gary sent Nidoqueen back out

            Snorlax vs Arcanine. Snorlax wins

            Gary sent out Scizor

            Snorlax vs Scizor. Scizor wins

            Ash sent Muk back out

            Muk vs Scizor. Scizor wins

            Ash sent out Charizard

            Charizard vs Scizor. Charizard wins

            Gary sent out Golem

            Charizard vs Golem. Charizard wins

            Gary sent out Blastoise

            Charizard vs Blastoise. Charizard wins

            Ash vs Harrison

            Ash sent out Pikachu

            Harrison sent out Kecleon

            Pikachu vs Kecleon. Pikachu wins

            Harrison sent out Sneasel

            Pikachu vs Sneasel. Sneasel wins

            Ash sent out Totodile

            Totodile vs Sneasel. Totodile wins

            Harrison sent out Hypno

            Totodile vs Hypno. Hypno wins

            Ash sent out Snorlax

            Snorlax vs Hypno. Snorlax wins

            Ash recalled Snorlax

            Harrison sent out Steelix



            Steelix vs Noctowl. Steelix wins

            Ash sent Snorlax back out

            Snorlax vs Steelix. Snorlax wins


            Harrison sent out Houndoom

            Snorlax vs Houndoom. Houndoom wins

            Ash sent out Bayleef

            Bayleef vs Houndoom. Bayleef wins

            Harrison sent out Blaziken

            Blaziken vs Bayleef. Blaziken wins

            Ash sent out Charizard

            Charizard vs Blaziken. Blaziken wins



            This should be enough proof for you to see the Pokemon that he used in Johto, it also show that Johto team did get to have at least one win each at the Johto League.
            That's not proof at all.
            You're just stating irrelevant wins against fodder Pokemon.
            Also, as for Johto team only counts the Pokemon he caught in Johto lol.
            Even so, it doesn't erase the fact Ash barely trained his Johto team and they didn't evolve.
            Ash was able to make it to top 8 in Johto league cause of his old Pokemon otherwise he had been a toast in the first round. Don't make me remember you how Bulbasaur saved Ash's ass against Meganium.
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              #6    
            Old December 12th, 2017 (9:26 PM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
              That's not proof at all.
              You're just stating irrelevant wins against fodder Pokemon.
              Also, as for Johto team only counts the Pokemon he caught in Johto lol.
              Even so, it doesn't erase the fact Ash barely trained his Johto team and they didn't evolve.
              Ash was able to make it to top 8 in Johto league cause of his old Pokemon otherwise he had been a toast in the first round. Don't make me remember you how Bulbasaur saved Ash's ass against Meganium.
              That is enough proof.

              I'm pretty sure Ash did train his Johto team at least off-screen anyways, and another thing is they didn't need to evolve, because they wasn't suppose to.

              Ash did make it to the top 8 in the Johto league because he used his current team and his old team, and most of his Oak Pokemon, the writer's could have had any of Ash's Pokemon win in the first round. Bulbasaur tied with Meganium which did kinda help Ash make it to the next round of the Johto League, any of his Pokemon could have done the samething and that doesn't make his Johto team weak at all.
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                #7    
              Old December 12th, 2017 (9:58 PM). Edited December 12th, 2017 by Kuzehiko.
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Piii View Post
                That is enough proof.
                I disagree it's not.

                Quote:
                I'm pretty sure Ash did train his Johto team at least off-screen anyways, and another thing is they didn't need to evolve, because they wasn't suppose to.
                Off-screen training? are you kidding? That doesn't count unless it is mentioned but such thing didn't happen hence Ash barely trained is Johto team. The fact they didn't evolve can be enough proof they were poorly handled. His Johto team wasn't like his Kanto team who were treated differently despite they didn't evolve.

                Quote:
                Ash did make it to the top 8 in the Johto league because he used his current team and his old team, and most of his Oak Pokemon, the writer's could have had any of Ash's Pokemon win in the first round. Bulbasaur tied with Meganium which did kinda help Ash make it to the next round of the Johto League, any of his Pokemon could have done the samething and that doesn't make his Johto team weak at all.
                Mainly because of his old team.
                Wasn't it Charizard who defeated 3 of Gary's Pokemon including his Blastoise?
                Wasn't Charizard who was Ash's final ace Pokemon against Harrison?
                Wasn't Bulbasaur who made Ash qualify to top 16 even when Ash was in disadvantage and Bulbasaur defeated Magneton and drew to Meganium?
                Wasn't Ash's Squirtle who defeated Macy's Electabuzz and Quilava?

                It was his Kanto team's effort mainly at the end of day. I am not saying his Johto team didn't help, they did but not much compared to his Kanto's. His Johto team was poorly handled prior to the Johto league and even if they'd made such great performance, it wouldn't erase the fact they were a disppointment prior to the Johto leauge.
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                  #8    
                Old December 12th, 2017 (11:08 PM). Edited December 12th, 2017 by Piii.
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
                  I disagree it's not.


                  Off-screen training? are you kidding? That doesn't count unless it is mentioned but such thing didn't happen hence Ash barely trained is Johto team. The fact they didn't evolve can be enough proof they were poorly handled. His Johto team wasn't like his Kanto team who were treated differently despite they didn't evolve.


                  Mainly because of his old team.
                  Wasn't it Charizard who defeated 3 of Gary's Pokemon including his Blastoise?
                  Wasn't Charizard who was Ash's final ace Pokemon against Harrison?
                  Wasn't Bulbasaur who made Ash qualify to top 16 even when Ash was in disadvantage and Bulbasaur defeated Magneton and drew to Meganium?
                  Wasn't Ash's Squirtle who defeated Macy's Electabuzz and Quilava?

                  It was his Kanto team's effort mainly at the end of day. I am not saying his Johto team didn't help, they did but not much compared to his Kanto's. His Johto team was poorly handled prior to the Johto league and even if they'd made such great performance, it wouldn't erase the fact they were a disppointment prior to the Johto leauge.
                  Ash went to Johto with his Kanto team, giving the fact Johto was meant to be a sequel to Kanto, it was suppose to be the final season of the anime.

                  They already plan out the teams for the OS series, just because his Johto team didn't evolve doesn't mean they were poorly handled or a disppointment, and that is not proof at all.

                  Let's see what Ash's Kanto team did in the Johto League.

                  Charizard did take down 3 of Gary's Pokemon aswell as Blastoise.

                  Charizard was his final pokemon to take on Harrison.

                  Bulbasaur did defeated a Magneton and tied with Meganium.

                  Squirtle did defeated Macey's Electabuzz and Quilava.

                  The Kanto team did fairly well, besides the fact Ash do have a strong bond with the Kanto starters , don't forget those were his first Pokemon, so it did make sense for them to comeback for the Pokemon League.
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                    #9    
                  Old December 12th, 2017 (11:24 PM). Edited December 13th, 2017 by Alexander18.
                  Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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                    I agree with you Kuzehiko. His johto pokemon may have had some good things but they still did not perform as good as Kanto and other teams in my opinion.
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                      #10    
                    Old December 13th, 2017 (7:24 PM). Edited December 13th, 2017 by Kuzehiko.
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Piii View Post
                      Ash went to Johto with his Kanto team, giving the fact Johto was meant to be a sequel to Kanto, it was suppose to be the final season of the anime.
                      As far as I am concerned that is not true.

                      Quote:
                      They already plan out the teams for the OS series, just because his Johto team didn't evolve doesn't mean they were poorly handled or a disppointment, and that is not proof at all.
                      Proof they planned out the terms for the OS series?
                      You're assuming they don't evolving is the only reason why I say they were poorly handled, I already said other reasons.
                      -His Johto team barely trained
                      -They had no development at all
                      -They didn't have enough focus
                      -And of course they didn't evolve.
                      This is enough proof to say they were poorly handled and I'm not listing their poor performance in the Johto league.

                      Quote:
                      Let's see what Ash's Kanto team did in the Johto League.

                      Charizard did take down 3 of Gary's Pokemon aswell as Blastoise.

                      Charizard was his final pokemon to take on Harrison.

                      Bulbasaur did defeated a Magneton and tied with Meganium.

                      Squirtle did defeated Macey's Electabuzz and Quilava.

                      The Kanto team did fairly well, besides the fact Ash do have a strong bond with the Kanto starters , don't forget those were his first Pokemon, so it did make sense for them to comeback for the Pokemon League.
                      You're just affirming what I said.
                      His Kanto team made Ash win every single of his matches.
                      Ash beats Macy thanks to Squirtle.
                      Ash draws to Jackson and does it top 16 thanks to Bulbasaur.
                      Ash beats Gary and does it to top 8 thanks to Charizard.
                      Ash's final ace Pokemon against Harrison during top 8 rounds is Charizard.
                      It's not Ash's Kanto team did fairly well, they did the hardest job in the Johto league.

                      This is all thanks to his Kanto team no matter how you look at it. If Ash only used his Johto team he's not gone further than first round.






                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
                      I agree with you Kuzehiko. His johto pokemon may have had some good things but they still did perform as good as Kanto and other teams in my opinion.
                      You mean his Johto team performed as good as his Kanto team?
                      I disagree if that's what you mean. HIs Kanto team did much better than his Johto team.
                      I hope I am misunderstanding it.
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                        #11    
                      Old December 13th, 2017 (7:57 PM).
                      jjc927 jjc927 is offline
                         
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                        Johto was more of a direct continuation from the first two seasons than it was it's own separate series like the later series were so it did make sense that he used his Kanto Pokémon sometimes. He used the Pokémon at the given time when he felt he needed them, which is what makes sense to do.
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                          #12    
                        Old December 13th, 2017 (8:13 PM).
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                        Kuzehiko Kuzehiko is offline
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                          Yes, it is a continuation but this guy said it was supposed to be the final season of the anime which is not true.
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                            #13    
                          Old December 13th, 2017 (8:45 PM).
                          Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
                            You mean his Johto team performed as good as his Kanto team?
                            I disagree if that's what you mean. HIs Kanto team did much better than his Johto team.
                            I hope I am misunderstanding it.
                            Made an error. I meant to say Johto still didn't do as well as kanto.
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                              #14    
                            Old December 13th, 2017 (8:57 PM).
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
                              Made an error. I meant to say Johto still didn't do as well as kanto.
                              Oh alright.
                              As I said above Ash wouldn't have gone further than first round in the Johto league if he only used his Johto team. Clear proof of this is Bulbasaur and Squirtle saved his two matches in the first round.
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                                #15    
                              Old December 13th, 2017 (9:04 PM).
                              strangerhypno's Avatar
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                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
                                Oh alright.
                                As I said above Ash wouldn't have gone further than first round in the Johto league if he only used his Johto team. Clear proof of this is Bulbasaur and Squirtle saved his two matches in the first round.
                                Yes, it's quite pitiful, every other region has a strong ace except Johto. Heracross was arguably his strongest Johto pokemon and it lost to Gary's Blastoise.
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                                  #16    
                                Old December 13th, 2017 (9:25 PM).
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                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by strangerhypno View Post
                                  Yes, it's quite pitiful, every other region has a strong ace except Johto. Heracross was arguably his strongest Johto pokemon and it lost to Gary's Blastoise.
                                  Indeed.

                                  Ash replaced Heracross for fodder Tauros, that should be enough proof on how he poorly handled his Johto Team. He also had Bulbasaur in his Johto team till season 5 and this was a bad idea as Bulbasaur was enough strong and his team wasn't balanced at all. Ash even needed his Kanto team to beat Clair, Charizard and Snorlax cough cough.

                                  I'm still pissed Ash didn't take Heracross with him for the BF.
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                                    #17    
                                  Old December 13th, 2017 (11:11 PM). Edited December 13th, 2017 by Piii.
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                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
                                    Oh alright.
                                    As I said above Ash wouldn't have gone further than first round in the Johto league if he only used his Johto team. Clear proof of this is Bulbasaur and Squirtle saved his two matches in the first round.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
                                    Yes, it is a continuation but this guy said it was supposed to be the final season of the anime which is not true.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
                                    Made an error. I meant to say Johto still didn't do as well as kanto.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by strangerhypno View Post
                                    Yes, it's quite pitiful, every other region has a strong ace except Johto. Heracross was arguably his strongest Johto pokemon and it lost to Gary's Blastoise.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by jjc927 View Post
                                    Johto was more of a direct continuation from the first two seasons than it was it's own separate series like the later series were so it did make sense that he used his Kanto Pokémon sometimes. He used the Pokémon at the given time when he felt he needed them, which is what makes sense to do.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
                                    As far as I am concerned that is not true.



                                    Proof they planned out the terms for the OS series?
                                    You're assuming they don't evolving is the only reason why I say they were poorly handled, I already said other reasons.
                                    -His Johto team barely trained
                                    -They had no development at all
                                    -They didn't have enough focus
                                    -And of course they didn't evolve.
                                    This is enough proof to say they were poorly handled and I'm not listing their poor performance in the Johto league.


                                    You're just affirming what I said.
                                    His Kanto team made Ash win every single of his matches.
                                    Ash beats Macy thanks to Squirtle.
                                    Ash draws to Jackson and does it top 16 thanks to Bulbasaur.
                                    Ash beats Gary and does it to top 8 thanks to Charizard.
                                    Ash's final ace Pokemon against Harrison during top 8 rounds is Charizard.
                                    It's not Ash's Kanto team did fairly well, they did the hardest job in the Johto league.

                                    This is all thanks to his Kanto team no matter how you look at it. If Ash only used his Johto team he's not gone further than first round.








                                    You mean his Johto team performed as good as his Kanto team?
                                    I disagree if that's what you mean. HIs Kanto team did much better than his Johto team.
                                    I hope I am misunderstanding it.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
                                    Oh alright.
                                    As I said above Ash wouldn't have gone further than first round in the Johto league if he only used his Johto team. Clear proof of this is Bulbasaur and Squirtle saved his two matches in the first round.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
                                    Yes, it is a continuation but this guy said it was supposed to be the final season of the anime which is not true.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
                                    Made an error. I meant to say Johto still didn't do as well as kanto.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by strangerhypno View Post
                                    Yes, it's quite pitiful, every other region has a strong ace except Johto. Heracross was arguably his strongest Johto pokemon and it lost to Gary's Blastoise.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by jjc927 View Post
                                    Johto was more of a direct continuation from the first two seasons than it was it's own separate series like the later series were so it did make sense that he used his Kanto Pokémon sometimes. He used the Pokémon at the given time when he felt he needed them, which is what makes sense to do.
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Kuzehiko View Post
                                    As far as I am concerned that is not true.



                                    Proof they planned out the terms for the OS series?
                                    You're assuming they don't evolving is the only reason why I say they were poorly handled, I already said other reasons.
                                    -His Johto team barely trained
                                    -They had no development at all
                                    -They didn't have enough focus
                                    -And of course they didn't evolve.
                                    This is enough proof to say they were poorly handled and I'm not listing their poor performance in the Johto league.

                                    This is not proof at all.


                                    You're just affirming what I said.
                                    His Kanto team made Ash win every single of his matches.
                                    Ash beats Macy thanks to Squirtle.
                                    Ash draws to Jackson and does it top 16 thanks to Bulbasaur.
                                    Ash beats Gary and does it to top 8 thanks to Charizard.
                                    Ash's final ace Pokemon against Harrison during top 8 rounds is Charizard.
                                    It's not Ash's Kanto team did fairly well, they did the hardest job in the Johto league.

                                    This is all thanks to his Kanto team no matter how you look at it. If Ash only used his Johto team he's not gone further than first round.








                                    You mean his Johto team performed as good as his Kanto team?
                                    I disagree if that's what you mean. HIs Kanto team did much better than his Johto team.
                                    I hope I am misunderstanding it.
                                    Is really stupid to say that ever other region had an ace and Johto didn't which isn't true, i mean the strongest Johto pokemon of Ash's team was Cyndaquil and Heracross.

                                    The writer's could have had any of Ash's Pokemon make it to the first round, Ash usually can on his Kanto team when he feel like it, is not saying his Johto was weak are poorly handled.

                                    Johto was just as good as Kanto.

                                    Johto team was just as good as his Kanto team. Not evolving is not a sign that his Johto team was poorly handled.

                                    I do believe Johto was to be the final season of the anime and that is a fact.


                                    Originally Posted by Piii View Post
                                    His Johto team was not poorly handled because they did got to have atleast one win each in the Johto League.

                                    Ash did use his Johto Team with his Kanto team during the Pokemon League. They didn't make his team evolve because they wanted to show that they can become strong battlers in their basic forms and Phanpy evolve in the Battle Frontier saga, that doesn't really count.

                                    His proof again that his Johto team wasn't poorly handled.

                                    Johto League

                                    The battle one on one Process screening

                                    Pikachu vs Salvadors Furret. Pikachu wins

                                    Phanpy vs unown trainers Machoke. Phanpy wins

                                    Cyndaquil vs unown trainer Exeggutor. Cyndaquil wins

                                    Three on three battle

                                    Ash vs Macey

                                    Totodile vs Macey's Slugma. Macey recalled Slugma

                                    Macey sent out Electabuzz.

                                    Totodile vs Electabuzz. Ash recalled Totodile

                                    Ash sent out Phanpy.

                                    Phanpy vs Electabuzz. Macey recalled Electabuzz

                                    Macey sent out Slugma

                                    Phanpy vs Slugma. Phanpy wins

                                    Macey sent out Quilava

                                    Phanpy vs Quilava. Quilava wins

                                    Ash sent out Totodile

                                    Totodile vs Quilava. Quilava is recalled

                                    Macey sent out Electabuzz

                                    Electabuzz vs Totodile. Electabuzz wins

                                    Ash sent out Squirtle

                                    Squirtle vs Electabuzz. Squirtle wins

                                    Macey sent out Quilava

                                    Squirtle vs Quilava. Squirtle wins

                                    Ash vs Jackson

                                    Ash sent out Pikachu

                                    Jackson sent out Azumarill

                                    Pikachu vs Azumarill. Pikachu wins

                                    Jackson sent out Magneton

                                    Pikachu vs Magneton. Magneton wins

                                    Ash sent out Cyndaquil

                                    Cyndaquil vs Magneton. Magneton wins

                                    Ash sent out Bulbasaur

                                    Bulbasaur vs Magneton. Bulbasaur wins

                                    Jackson sent out Meganium

                                    Bulbasaur vs Meganium . both end in a draw


                                    Ash vs Gary

                                    Ash sent out Tauros

                                    Gary sent out Nidoqueen

                                    Tauros vs Nidoqueen. Nidoqueen wins

                                    Ash sent out Heracross

                                    Gary recalled Nidoqueen

                                    Gary sent out Magmar

                                    Second round

                                    Magmar vs Heracross. Heracross wins

                                    Gary sent out Blastoise

                                    Blastoise vs Heracross. Blastoise wins

                                    Ash sent out Muk

                                    Muk vs Blastoise. Muk is recalled

                                    Ash sent out Bayleef

                                    Bayleef vs Blastoise. Blastoise wins

                                    Gary recalled Blastoise

                                    Ash sent out Snorlax

                                    Gary sent out Arcanine

                                    Snorlax vs Arcanine. Snorlax wins

                                    Gary sent Nidoqueen back out

                                    Snorlax vs Arcanine. Snorlax wins

                                    Gary sent out Scizor

                                    Snorlax vs Scizor. Scizor wins

                                    Ash sent Muk back out

                                    Muk vs Scizor. Scizor wins

                                    Ash sent out Charizard

                                    Charizard vs Scizor. Charizard wins

                                    Gary sent out Golem

                                    Charizard vs Golem. Charizard wins

                                    Gary sent out Blastoise

                                    Charizard vs Blastoise. Charizard wins

                                    Ash vs Harrison

                                    Ash sent out Pikachu

                                    Harrison sent out Kecleon

                                    Pikachu vs Kecleon. Pikachu wins

                                    Harrison sent out Sneasel

                                    Pikachu vs Sneasel. Sneasel wins

                                    Ash sent out Totodile

                                    Totodile vs Sneasel. Totodile wins

                                    Harrison sent out Hypno

                                    Totodile vs Hypno. Hypno wins

                                    Ash sent out Snorlax

                                    Snorlax vs Hypno. Snorlax wins

                                    Ash recalled Snorlax

                                    Harrison sent out Steelix



                                    Steelix vs Noctowl. Steelix wins

                                    Ash sent Snorlax back out

                                    Snorlax vs Steelix. Snorlax wins


                                    Harrison sent out Houndoom

                                    Snorlax vs Houndoom. Houndoom wins

                                    Ash sent out Bayleef

                                    Bayleef vs Houndoom. Bayleef wins

                                    Harrison sent out Blaziken

                                    Blaziken vs Bayleef. Blaziken wins

                                    Ash sent out Charizard

                                    Charizard vs Blaziken. Blaziken wins

                                    Calling back Charizard and Snorlax to inorder to beat Clair doesn't show any proof that his Johto team was poorly handled, Bulbasaur had nothing to do with the balance of his team, Ash had a strong bond with Bulbasaur and it wasn't a bad idea for him to stay on the Johto team, besides he only stay on the Johto team until season 5.
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                                      #18    
                                    Old December 14th, 2017 (12:16 AM). Edited December 14th, 2017 by Kuzehiko.
                                    Kuzehiko's Avatar
                                    Kuzehiko Kuzehiko is offline
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                                      Please, make sure to do the right quote cause I don't know what you're trying to say nor pointing out. I also dunno what to reply if you don't quote correctly and accordingly.

                                      We better leave it at that.
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                                        #19    
                                      Old December 14th, 2017 (10:15 AM).
                                      Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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                                        I am annoyed that an opinion is getting shoved down my throat constantly. I get why some like all of the OS saga and Johto teams but enough is enough. Agree to disagree.

                                        Anyway i would have like to see at least one fully evolved johto starter. Meganium would have worked with Ash. I know that Casey had one but there is no rule that Ash can't share a pokemon with someone else. Or at least have Phanpy evolve in this region.
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