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  #1    
Old August 1st, 2017 (2:25 PM). Edited August 1st, 2017 by CodeHelmet.
CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is online now
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    Just as shipping is a hotly contested debate among Pokemon fans, so too is which series or region happens to be the best. There are those that will cling to the original series(Kanto, Orange Islands and Johto) until the end times, while others will argue that Kalos was the best region to date. Here in this thread, feel free to share what region you think is the best but I'm going a bit farther because I literally took the time over the past two or so months to rewatch all 19 Seasons of Pokemon. Season 20 or Sun&Moon is currently ongoing and hence was excluded from my analysis but from what I've seen, Sun&Moon is a debacle for the most part.

    Before I start, I must clarify what I deem a filler Episode to be. Namely its an Episode that doesn't involve any catch/release/evolution moments of the main group(hence past characters like Misty in AG do not count), don't involve the main antagonists of the region(Team Rocket(when they're not stealing Pikachu) or one of the regional villain groups) and doesn't involve Gyms/Contests that really matter(this last one being kind of subjective but most of the early region contests(like Princess vs Princess) were unimportant while DP and especially Unova had a lot of Tournaments that were a blast to watch).

    Anyways, without further ado, my rankings(from Best to worst):

    #1: Kalos region(XY/XYZ or Seasons 17 to 19). I struggled with which region to place first but ultimately decided to place Kalos in the top spot despite it having 79 filler episodes(79/140 = 56.4% filler rate). A good chunk of that filler is actually worthwhile to watch since it involves Amourshipping, Korrina and otherwise goofy Episodes such as the Pikachu film one(Serena laughing in the blooper reel at the end is hilarious). What put this region up top is that Ash had arguably his best team, with each member being fully evolved and making it into the Championship round of the Kalos League and losing to Alain. Unfortunately for Ash, Brock predicted he would lose when he said Water Types are weak against Fire. The antagonist group in Team Flare also gave this region the edge as Lysander broke the insanity meter with his Kalos scheme. Tack on Mega Evolution(which is better than Z-Crystals... *cough*), AshGreninja, superb legendary Pokemon(notably Zygarde) and the family atmosphere the main cast exhibited over the course of the series made it an enjoyable watch.

    #2: Sinnoh region(Diamond and Pearl or Seasons 10 to 13). This region had a lot of filler. Out of 189 Episodes, I marked 114 as filler or a whopping 60.3%. Although that is incredibly high, again the filler is not all bad. Some incredibly funny and worthwhile episodes are sprinkled in, including the Pokemon Summer Academy involving Angie. What bolsters this region the most is not only Ash and the team he assembles, but I honestly feel Paul was Ash's best rival in the entire anime. His methods were crude and extreme but they worked and it made it easy for anyone watching the series to despise him. When you despise a character, you come to love them even more. When Ash beat him in the Sinnoh Tournament, it was arguably Ash's greatest triumph since he had never beaten him until then. Diamond Dandruff Dawn, her rivals, Brock's antics with Croagunk and Team Galactic arc all leave a notable mark. What hurt Sinnoh and why I slotted it into my #2 spot was how Ash lost to Tobias. A trainer with a Darkrai, Latios and other legendary Pokemon? Seriously? SMH, its like they wanted Ash to lose on purpose.

    #3: Unova region(Black and White, Seasons 14 to 16). This may surprise some folks but I honestly thought Unova region wasn't that bad. If you like battling(which I do), then this region was chalk full of it. Out of 142 Episodes, I deemed 80 of it to be filler for 56.3%. What buoyed this region was the fact Ash caught a lot of Pokemon, rotated them in and out and became a competent battler by series end despite being an imbecile at series start. Iris and Cilan are underrated companions, although both did start to test my sanity(especially Iris) midway through the series and Team Plasma was also a decent antagonist group(even Team Rocket was a bright spot for a bit). The episodes involving N and Team Plasma is what helps set this region apart. What hurts this region is again how Ash loses in the regional Tournament(losing to Cameron is just well... facepalm worthy) and the fact that the last 20 or so Episodes of the region are completely optional(aka they're all filler, even though they include Alexa and setting up the XY region).

    #4: Hoenn region(Advanced Generation, Seasons 6 to 9). Out of 191 Episodes, I marked 99 as filler for 51.8%. I know its a bit of a surprise to see Advanced Generation at #4 as opposed to higher(particularly because this region includes the Battle Frontier) but part of why I have it slotted here is how the writers handled May, particularly early on. I mean she loses a contest and is depressed or upset in losing and by the end of the Episode is magically all happy again like nothing ever happened. That didn't happen with Dawn in Diamond and Pearl(who took several Episodes to get over her consecutive defeats). Max also annoyed the hell out of me as I honestly thought he was dead weight for most of the series(only there to reign Brock in from what I can tell. Even Bonnie wasn't this useless). Ash's team was decent but like in the regions I've already discussed, his Hoenn League Tournament performance was less than ideal(losing to Tyson in the 5th round). The only redeeming quality that saved this region from being placed last is the Battle Frontier, May's rivals in Drew, Haley and Solidad and Team Magma and Aqua being above average antagonists.

    #5 Kanto/Orange Islands/Johto(Original Generation, Seasons 1 to 5): Someone has to be placed last and unfortunately the regions that started the anime get the short end of the stick in my book. Out of 273 Episodes over 5 Seasons, the most of any Generation, I marked 181 as filler for a whopping 66.3%. That is just too much filler to ignore, even if some of them were legendary like Duplica's first Episode where they imitate Team Rocket. Misty was superb as a Tsundere but with regards to achieving her goal as a Water Pokemon Master, she kind of fell short in this department(especially when compared to her future successors like Iris). Ash had a relatively easy time in acquiring badges, particularly in Kanto where at least half were acquired in unorthadox fashion(usually the Leader giving him the badge like in Brock and Misty's case). Then there's Ash's Tournament performances. Excluding Orange Islands(which is a minor region), Ash lost to an unknown Trainer in Ritchie and then lost again in Johto to Harrison(with a Hoenn region Blaziken to set-up the next region). Although Team Rocket's schemes throughout the first 5 seasons were decent, they didn't quite match the audacity or competency of future antagonist groups. Finally, Tracey needs to die.... if I could kill off one character, I'd probably pick him over Max(and that's saying something).

    *Wipes head* Long read I know but I figured I'd back up my rankings and again its just my opinion. You are free to disagree with me.
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    Old August 1st, 2017 (5:05 PM).
    weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is online now
       
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      Regarding the regions/series, I'll just list them in groupings:

      First place goes towards the Original Series, and in particular Johto and Orange Islands. Kanto had its flaws, sure, but Orange Islands and Johto more than compensated for any of Kanto's flaws, and Kanto itself had enough to stand up on its own. And I'd say Misty was definitely well done as a character (far better done than most of the other female companions save for maybe Iris), and to be fair, she definitely would have not fallen short in the department had the writers not axed her early. And, eh, maybe there was some episodes that actually WERE filler, but at least we actually COULD measure Ash's success here.

      DP/XY ties here, largely because, quite frankly, those two series actually HAD Ash doing a lot better than the prior time (increasing in rank), and ultimately had the Gym Leaders being a bit more competent here (though that being said, I wasn't too happy with how DP handled Ash and Pikachu, since quite frankly, him having beat a Regice outright with Pikachu should have him breeze the gyms with just Pikachu). There were some flaws, though, such as Paul being a bit too strong and some of his wins being stupid (I'm sorry, but Ursaring definitely should not have beat Pikachu that easily since the latter was a veteran. If Pikachu needed to lose to Paul, it should have been against his Torterra). That, and there's also how Ash lost the leagues.

      Second to last place has to go to AG/Best Wishes. For one, Ash was depicted in the worst light in the latter series (well, okay, maybe second-worst, considering Sun and Moon completely gutted Ash's character even more than BW ever did), and in both series, it just came across as exceedingly pointless (for starters, May gets blatantly replaced with Dawn just to have her do the exact same goal as May. And don't get me started on how Ash got the EXACT same league rank in Hoenn as he did Johto, meaning he didn't seem to learn a thing at all and was just static. Even with the one real accomplishment he had in AG, the whole Battle Frontier thing, that got treated as a joke where Gary, a guy who was supposed to have retired from training, managed to hand Ash and Pikachu their butts with Electivire). And quite frankly, this was also the start of the infamous "girl-swapping", and I was not particularly impressed with the Gym Leaders at all from what I could gather, especially when they lose to a bunch of Rookie Pokémon (the only one of Hoenn's Gym Leaders who came across as even REMOTELY impressive was Brawley and possibly Roxanne, the former due to actually BEATING Ash, and the latter because of Ash simply using Pikachu, a veteran). I mean, seriously, having them lose to rookie Pokémon easily makes them out to be as grossly incompetent as Jessie James and Meowth of Team Rocket and thus makes the win not even WORTH the win. I'd even take Kanto's "pity-badges" over having Gym Leaders losing against Pokémon they are supposed to utterly wipe the floor with, since I dislike it when Gym Leaders, who are SUPPOSED to be a challenge, are depicted as so weak that even Pokémon who lack any experience at all are able to massacre them. Best Wishes' gym leaders' treatment were arguably even WORSE in that regard, since Ash was turned into a total moron, meaning they not only lost to rookies, but to a guy who is most likely brain-damaged. And don't get me started on how Trip, a guy who was quite literally starting out, managed to give Ash and Pikachu a humiliating defeat TWICE. Probably the only good things were Misty's appearances as well as Charizard actually making a grand return to Ash's team.

      Last place probably goes to SM. As bad as Best Wishes and AG were, at least they attempted to focus on the entire POINT of Ash's character, which was to win leagues and get much closer to actually becoming a Pokémon Master. Here, the writers said "screw it" and had Ash going to school despite it being made clear very early on that he doesn't even need school to do Pokémon Training at all.
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      Old August 1st, 2017 (7:33 PM).
      jjc927 jjc927 is offline
         
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        For me: #1- Original series (Kanto-Johto): Yes there's plenty of filler and some of the early episodes are more corny than anything, but I felt they did a great job showing Ash's development and growth as a trainer and person and Misty and Brock were perfect counterparts for him. The Johto League episodes are among the best of the show, and there's some great moments of comedy, drama, and sadness. Some of the fillers were pretty interesting, especially the episodes in Johto with Gary working together with Ash and Co and the episode where Ash and Brock are with Jessie and Misty is with James and Meowth.

        #2- Advanced Generation- I didn't really think a lot of May and Max and I'm not a big fan of the contests but overall I felt this was a good follow up to the original series. The Battle Frontier had some really good battles also. The Hoenn League battles were great and most of the fillers were pretty enjoyable. I also really liked Team Aqua and Magma.

        #3- Diamond and Pearl- I liked Dawn much more than May and Max other than her newbie-ish moments. It was nice having Gary back but he should've had more episodes, and I thought they should have done more with Paul and fleshing out the reasons for his personality and I couldn't stand Barry. Team Galactic wasn't bad, didn't think Pokémon Hunter J was unnecessary. The league battles weren't as good as the previous, Ash's last battle was especially disappointing.

        #4- Sun and Moon. As much as I wish there was more of a story going on and more battling, the episodes are entertaining enough to keep my interest. The cast is a good combination, although I could do without Rotom and Sophocles. Team Skull is pretty much a waste, although the episode with them vs Team Rocket was good. Team Rocket feels like a waste in this season in general too, but they've had some funny exchanges and a couple of really good moments (the battle vs Lillie and defeating Ash).

        #5- XY. I haven't watched a lot of it, but what I have watched I've been on the fence about. It's not bad and I like the action and battles, but it just has a slow and dull feel. And yes, they should have let Ash win the league.

        #6- Black and White/Best Wishes- Terrible. Iris and Cilan are irritating, and the episodes for the most part are just poor attempts at recreating season 1. The Charizard reunion episode was the only one I really liked.
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        Old August 1st, 2017 (10:08 PM).
        CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is online now
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          Surprised both of you included SM in your rankings. I didn't include it because its only 35 Episodes in and not finished. Can't really judge a series until you have all the evidence and since there are more Episodes or evidence to be displayed, I must reserve judgment but from what I've seen its not looking good. I will say that I'm not trying to come across as dissing Original series(far from it actually). I grew up with the Original series so I have a soft spot for it but when I look at it and compare it to other Generations, it just has a ton of flaws(particularly in Kanto) and Tracey just drove me nuts(he's a character I just can't stand. Even more so than Max, Iris or Cilan and that's saying something).
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          Old August 1st, 2017 (10:14 PM).
          Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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            First place: kanto series, orange islands series, johto series, hoenn series, kanto battle frontier series and sinnoh series.

            Last place: Unova series, Kalos series and Alola series.

            All seasons before Unova was great. It went downhill when Unova started. Ash losing to a less experience trainer in league and iris who was annoying ruined the whole Unova saga. Ash releasing Greninja and Goodra in Kalos made the Kalos saga bad but Serena made it worse with her crush being on the show. Alola is ruined the moment Lillie appeared and Ash got redesigned.
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            Old August 2nd, 2017 (12:53 AM).
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            CidHazard CidHazard is offline
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              My Feelings and Opinions about the show change's overtime but for now... here's my top 3 XD

              Note - I have primarily finished each series in Japanese with the exception of Advance Generation.

              First Place: XY series - In my opinion In terms of quality of Animation and Writing this is the best Pokemon Series I've ever watched. It's one miss step was giving another Lose in League Battle's, but looking past besides that... each character arc was memorable, from Citron to Alain to Shota all of them well written and had great payoffs. The battle's where great and heart pumping. and Finally it had an awesome soundtrack that sadly was never used in the dub (The soundtrack itself consisted of remixed video game music and original compositions.)

              Second Place: Original run (Kanto - Johto)- The first three main characters and first three starter pokemon where all in this show... and they where all fantastic. This run also probably has some of the best filler episodes I've seen on the show. Not to mention the original probably has some of the most heart wrenching moments in the series ever. Also the original run also includes the Orange league which paid off Charizards character arc wonderfully...

              Third Place: Diamond and Pearl This is third because of well three things really... Dawn, Satoshi's Infernape, and Shinji (Probably Satoshi's the greatestrival since Shigeru). also HIGH FIVE!!!
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              Old August 2nd, 2017 (4:25 AM).
              Hikamaru Hikamaru is offline
               
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              This would be how I rank the series so far:

              1. XY series
              Okay, I'm in the huge majority of the fandom who universally loved this series. We had what I consider one of the best sets of companions yet, on top of Serena being one of my fave female characters of all time (by anime standards, that is) due to how well her development was handled. AmourShipping was also extremely popular and got so many people back into the series, and Ash had for the first time a fully-evolved team (barring Pikachu of course). Sadly, the series ended on a sour note with that invincible Gary Stu named Alain beating Ash in the Kalos League final, thus cementing him as one of my most hated characters of all time. Team Flare arc was better, but the series also had to end with Ash letting go the two Kalos team members that were not Flying-types. Besides those minor flaws, it's a great series and definitely the anime at its strongest.

              2. Diamond & Pearl series
              I missed pretty much all of Advanced Generation due to being in school at the time and it was on at a time I couldn't watch it. I eventually returned to watching the anime in 2007 and that was when I discovered this saga, and I was intrigued at how it would go. Like XY, this series was also handled well in regards to Ash's character and team, and having another fave female character of mine in Dawn. I also loved Dawn's contest arc, and while I was pissed she lost to Zoey in the Grand Festival, a rival she was never able to beat (very much like how Ash always lost to Alain when they battled) but Zoey was a great character too in that she gave advice to Dawn. Paul is also my fave anime rival, since he reminds me a lot of competitive players who only train the best Pokemon, and then there was the whole story with Chimchar's relationship with Ash and Paul. The league wasn't bad, but Tobias was clearly the part I hated about it since he had nothing but overpowered legendaries. Hunter J was also an interesting villain, since she outright wanted to kill Ash which is not what you'd usually expect in a Pokemon villain.

              3. Advanced Generation series
              Due to school, I missed most of this series but I did eventually see a few episodes on anime streaming sites just so I could get an idea, and I admit it was initially baffling when the whole "May replaced Misty!" controversy was going on, but over time I got used to May and I admit she was a great character. Not as great as Dawn or Serena, but still a character that's enjoyable to watch. This series also had in my opinion, Ash's most unique-looking outfit to date, since it clearly didn't notably resemble the main game protagonist at the time, unlike the other series. Also, this was of course the final saga to have the 4Kids voice cast and the first saga to have the TPCi voice cast.

              4. Original series
              I used to enjoy this as a kid back in the day, especially since I often used to look up to Ash and how his friendship with Pikachu started off in a bad light. Misty and Brock may not be all-time faves of mine, but they are still well-loved companions who started everything. And how can you not forget Ash losing to Ritchie in the Indigo league due to Charizard refusing to listen? The only reason I put this lower was because I found Orange Islands boring and nothing but filler, despite its unique Gym concepts.

              5. Best Wishes series
              This was once my worst series of all time, but the next example has put this one to shame. I did watch some episodes until halfway through because I was annoyed at how much Ash's character was ruined, reverting him back to someone who was only starting their Pokemon journey and making dumb mistakes such as throwing a Poke Ball at a wild Pokemon without battling, or completely derping out during a Gym battle because he thought one Pokemon could sweep it only to be proven wrong. Ugh, hated that Gym battle against Elesa. There's also Iris and Cilan, who are definitely the worst companions. I didn't mind Cilan since he did provide some comedy, but Iris was the one I was most pissed off at because her catchphrase was nothing but insults directed at Ash. Trip was also a bad rival, especially ever since he easily creamed Ash with a Snivy that was only in its first ever battle. The Unova League also ended horribly with Ash losing to that doofus named Cameron who only had five Pokemon and thought the league was in Johto of all places. Decolore Islands arc also sucked, though at least we did see Charizard return to the series which was not bad.

              6. Sun & Moon series
              Let's say it, while Best Wishes was a bad series, it still felt like a traditional Pokemon anime with travelling and meeting new friends and Pokemon. Sun & Moon however, after 20 years of the franchise, turns a complete 180 with the anime's formula and abandons everything we loved about the anime. The school arc is terrible, since Ash has had experience as a Trainer for years without needing school, on top of it also feeling pointless. Rotom Dex reminds me of Whisper from Yo-Kai Watch, a series which I feel this saga is trying to copy. Then we of course have Ash's new design and personality, which I admit is his worst to date. Not only is his Alola outfit his laziest design to date (heck, it is literally copy-pasted from the SM games) but his face also looks extremely ridiculous, and while he does keep the battle competence, he now acts like an overhyped retard who is suddenly addicted to ice cream so much that he'll prioritise that over training. The classmates are not too bad in terms of personality, but I do admit the chemistry they have with Ash is the most bland to date. Heck, even Iris and Cilan had better group chemistry than they did! And don't get me started on the comedy and facial expressions, in fact 90% of the comedy in this series is clearly forced, and the facial expressions are also extremely horrifying to look at, not to mention they completely ruin certain moments. Stuff like Ash's uvula with a face and Ash twerking with Rockruff are not what I consider appropriate for the anime. Sun & Moon is a mess that doesn't feel like a traditional Pokemon anime, and instead tries to be something it's not.
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              Old August 2nd, 2017 (5:40 AM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Hikamaru View Post
                This would be how I rank the series so far:

                1. XY series
                Okay, I'm in the huge majority of the fandom who universally loved this series. We had what I consider one of the best sets of companions yet, on top of Serena being one of my fave female characters of all time (by anime standards, that is) due to how well her development was handled. AmourShipping was also extremely popular and got so many people back into the series, and Ash had for the first time a fully-evolved team (barring Pikachu of course). Sadly, the series ended on a sour note with that invincible Gary Stu named Alain beating Ash in the Kalos League final, thus cementing him as one of my most hated characters of all time. Team Flare arc was better, but the series also had to end with Ash letting go the two Kalos team members that were not Flying-types. Besides those minor flaws, it's a great series and definitely the anime at its strongest.


                6. Sun & Moon series
                Let's say it, while Best Wishes was a bad series, it still felt like a traditional Pokemon anime with travelling and meeting new friends and Pokemon. Sun & Moon however, after 20 years of the franchise, turns a complete 180 with the anime's formula and abandons everything we loved about the anime. The school arc is terrible, since Ash has had experience as a Trainer for years without needing school, on top of it also feeling pointless. Rotom Dex reminds me of Whisper from Yo-Kai Watch, a series which I feel this saga is trying to copy. Then we of course have Ash's new design and personality, which I admit is his worst to date. Not only is his Alola outfit his laziest design to date (heck, it is literally copy-pasted from the SM games) but his face also looks extremely ridiculous, and while he does keep the battle competence, he now acts like an overhyped retard who is suddenly addicted to ice cream so much that he'll prioritise that over training. The classmates are not too bad in terms of personality, but I do admit the chemistry they have with Ash is the most bland to date. Heck, even Iris and Cilan had better group chemistry than they did! And don't get me started on the comedy and facial expressions, in fact 90% of the comedy in this series is clearly forced, and the facial expressions are also extremely horrifying to look at, not to mention they completely ruin certain moments. Stuff like Ash's uvula with a face and Ash twerking with Rockruff are not what I consider appropriate for the anime. Sun & Moon is a mess that doesn't feel like a traditional Pokemon anime, and instead tries to be something it's not.
                Thanks for posting this
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                Old August 2nd, 2017 (9:34 AM).
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                Videreludus Videreludus is offline
                   
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                  My list is almost like Hikamarus, I would only switch the original series with the advance series.

                  The XY series was the best, I loved how mature Ash was and his Team were badass, Team Flare were the best Team to date having an objective that I never would though in a Pokémon anime. Clemont and Serena were cool characters.
                  I didn't like Ash releasing Greninja and Goodra though and wish Ash would have catched a grass type.

                  The DP series are in second Place. This series had the best of Ash's rivals. Also Infernape is badass. Loved that Ash catched a Gible (but wish he would evolve him to Garchomp). Dawn was a good character and liked Brocks relationship with Groagunk. The Gym Battles were really cool like against Fantina. Also loved Garys return
                  I didn't like Ash's lost against Tobias.

                  The original series are special to me for being the first, I mean it was a time were Pokémon was new, but I can see their flaws. Loved the characters, the comedy was great, and loved the Pokémon.
                  Didn't liked how half of the Gym Leaders gave Ash their Badges without a fight.

                  The advance series were boring to me didn't like May and Max, and Contest weren't interesting. Except Glalie his Pokémon weren as interesting, but it was still better than BW was and SM is right now.

                  BW was bad. Iris was irritating and Ash wasn't the same as before. I get that the writers wanted to (soft) reboot the series but that made the series worse. We see the series to see Ash's journey and if he will beat a League, rebooting the series makes as think we are wasting or time. Also the way Ash lost the league was terrible and using one Pokémon to fight your rival doesn't feel satisfied.

                  SM is the worst. I hate the redesign, the humour, no Trial Masters, ash doesn't journeys Alola how he did on the other regions and if Ash didn't need to go to school before why now?
                  I like the charachters except Samson Oak. Kiawe is cool. But except that everything of the show is bad.
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                  Old August 2nd, 2017 (10:44 AM).
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                  Absolitetion Absolitetion is offline
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                    1. XY Series
                    For me the best one so far.
                    Fantastic art, a bit more mature attitude and great characters are main reasons.
                    The ending was a bit disappointing due to feeling somewhat rushed.
                    Still it tops it for me.

                    2. DP/AG
                    A tie for me.
                    DP because of the nice art, advanced battling and characters.
                    AG for characters and incredible nostalgia on my part.

                    3. Original Series
                    Flawed in some ways, but still very enjoyable, particularly when you get to Orange Islands and Johto (despite the immense amount of fillers).

                    4. SM
                    It's turned out pretty bad.
                    Art is unfavourable, overall pretty boring as Slice of Life does not fit Pokémon IMO (at least not in the anime as it is now) and too filler-ish.
                    Has some fun gags, but please, revert back to XY.
                    Since it is still running I hope it still improves and saves it for last place. (don't count on it honestly.)

                    5. B&W
                    Only the art is really good. But characters are lame and often dumb.
                    N's story was somewhat of a improvement, but that's all really.
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                    Old August 3rd, 2017 (6:40 AM). Edited August 3rd, 2017 by CodeHelmet.
                    CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is online now
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                      I knew the hate for BW was strong but wow lol. Kind of surprised people are including SM into these rankings despite it not even having a Season under its belt. I do agree though that in terms of effort, SM is arguably the worst season to date and Hikamaru said it best when describing it. Honestly I think if the writers had watched Diamond and Pearl, they would have realized that Ash in a school setting(*Cough* Professor Rowan's Summer Academy *Cough*) doesn't work. It works if done in small doses or a few Episodes but not over the course of a series.

                      I will add though that I could alternate #3 and #4 on my list. I just opted for BW since I liked the numerous Tournaments in the series and the N arc with Team Plasma was solid. After re-watching the Battle Frontier, an idea popped into my head regarding Ash's goal in my fictional/alternative story. Basically by completing the Battle Frontier, it earns him a qualifier spot in the Champions League Tournament(since beating the Battle Frontier is equivalent to defeating a region's Elite 4 and Champion). Therefore, he will have the honor of battling regional champions to determine who is the best among them and the Tournament will take place in Indigo Plateau. Its an idea that I have to flesh out but an appealing one to say the least since it bypasses his issue of always losing a League.
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                      Old August 3rd, 2017 (6:50 AM).
                      Hikamaru Hikamaru is offline
                       
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by CodeHelmet View Post
                      I knew the hate for BW was strong but wow lol. Kind of surprised people are including SM into these rankings despite it not even having a Season under its belt.
                      Of course BW would be hated, because it was a mess. SM may be ongoing but it already shows a lot of obvious flaws along with being way too different from a traditional Pokemon anime series should be.

                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by CodeHelmet View Post
                      I do agree though that in terms of effort, SM is arguably the worst season to date and Hikamaru said it best when describing it. Honestly I think if the writers had watched Diamond and Pearl, they would have realized that Ash in a school setting(*Cough* Professor Rowan's Summer Academy *Cough*) doesn't work. It works if done in small doses or a few Episodes but not over the course of a series.
                      Well thank you for respecting my opinions. School settings do work in a small number of episodes, like DP's Summer Academy arc. It doesn't fit Pokemon if it takes up a whole series, which is where SM is messing up.
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                        #13    
                      Old August 3rd, 2017 (8:03 AM).
                      jjc927 jjc927 is offline
                         
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                        DP's Summer Academy did bother me though. It had absolutely nothing to do with anything and it was just random. I don't like the school setting that much in Sun and Moon, but it's only a small part of each episode really only used to set up something that will be going on in the episode. I've been surprised by how little of a role the school aspect has had because it was made to look like a big deal in the set-up leading to the series.
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                          #14    
                        Old August 3rd, 2017 (2:06 PM).
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                        BettyNewbie BettyNewbie is offline
                           
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                          My rankings, best to worst:

                          1. Kanto
                          2. Orange
                          3. Johto

                          Nostalgia or not, it's hard to deny Kanto's appeal. Ash/Misty/Brock had their best dynamics, the TRio had their best dynamics, the pacing was the best, and the fillers were actually fun and memorable.

                          For an anime-exclusive filler region, Orange wasn't bad either. Again, it was fun, memorable filler, and we even saw Ash grow as a trainer. I liked Tracey a lot more than most people did, but he could've stood to be fleshed out better, and he often felt like a third wheel with Ash and Misty.

                          Johto was an arc of missed opportunity. The GS Ball was dropped without fanfare, and the show got stuck in filler hell (and unlike Kanto/Orange fillers, Johto fillers were mostly tedious and boring). Ash/Misty/Brock had only a fraction of the energy and dynamics they had back in Kanto, and it didn't seem like any of them were actually growing and developing as characters.

                          Some of the late Johto storylines (like Whirl Cup, Baby Lugia, and Red Gyarados) were good, and the gym battles and League were a step up from Kanto, but it's hard not to think of how much better Johto could've been had they stuck to the original plan and wrapped up the stories of Ash & Co. at the end of the arc. Once the GS Ball was dropped and they decided to have Ash continue on into the next gen's region, Johto no longer had an endpoint to work towards, and the arc suffered badly as a result.

                          And, all of the above is why I'm not even bothering to rank AG/DP/BW/XY/SM. I know those arcs all have their fans, but I firmly believe that Johto should've been Ash's last, and I dislike what the show became starting in AG.
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                            #15    
                          Old August 3rd, 2017 (2:17 PM).
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                          Videreludus Videreludus is offline
                             
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by BettyNewbie View Post
                            My rankings, best to worst:

                            1. Kanto
                            2. Orange
                            3. Johto

                            Nostalgia or not, it's hard to deny Kanto's appeal. Ash/Misty/Brock had their best dynamics, the TRio had their best dynamics, the pacing was the best, and the fillers were actually fun and memorable.

                            For an anime-exclusive filler region, Orange wasn't bad either. Again, it was fun, memorable filler, and we even saw Ash grow as a trainer. I liked Tracey a lot more than most people did, but he could've stood to be fleshed out better, and he often felt like a third wheel with Ash and Misty.

                            Johto was an arc of missed opportunity. The GS Ball was dropped without fanfare, and the show got stuck in filler hell (and unlike Kanto/Orange fillers, Johto fillers were mostly tedious and boring). Ash/Misty/Brock had only a fraction of the energy and dynamics they had back in Kanto, and it didn't seem like any of them were actually growing and developing as characters.

                            Some of the late Johto storylines (like Whirl Cup, Baby Lugia, and Red Gyarados) were good, and the gym battles and League were a step up from Kanto, but it's hard not to think of how much better Johto could've been had they stuck to the original plan and wrapped up the stories of Ash & Co. at the end of the arc. Once the GS Ball was dropped and they decided to have Ash continue on into the next gen's region, Johto no longer had an endpoint to work towards, and the arc suffered badly as a result.

                            And, all of the above is why I'm not even bothering to rank AG/DP/BW/XY/SM. I know those arcs all have their fans, but I firmly believe that Johto should've been Ash's last, and I dislike what the show became starting in AG.
                            I actually think that Ash should have ended in Kanto and be replaced by Gold/Ethans anime counterpart in Johto.
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                              #16    
                            Old August 3rd, 2017 (2:22 PM).
                            Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Videreludus View Post
                              I actually think that Ash should have ended in Kanto and be replaced by Gold/Ethans anime counterpart in Johto.
                              Changing main character every region would be very annoying so i glad that they didn't.
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                                #17    
                              Old August 3rd, 2017 (2:28 PM).
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                                Quote:
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                                Changing main character every region would be very annoying so i glad that they didn't.
                                It's also annoying that Ash isn't close to reach his goal.
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                                  #18    
                                Old August 3rd, 2017 (4:25 PM).
                                Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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                                  Quote:
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                                  It's also annoying that Ash isn't close to reach his goal.
                                  That is because he needs to lose the leagues so he can go to new regions and keep the show running. I don't like that he mostly loses but that is how it is.
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                                    #19    
                                  Old August 3rd, 2017 (4:49 PM).
                                  weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is online now
                                     
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                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
                                    That is because he needs to lose the leagues so he can go to new regions and keep the show running. I don't like that he mostly loses but that is how it is.
                                    Yeah, sorry, I don't buy that. If they were that concerned with his winning meaning the show is over, they wouldn't have had him win the Orange Islands or, heck, even the Battle Frontier. I know if I were the writers and I was that afraid of him winning a league, I'd STILL have him lose Orange Islands and the Battle Frontier.
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                                      #20    
                                    Old August 3rd, 2017 (6:10 PM).
                                    CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is online now
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                                      Quote:
                                      Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                                      Yeah, sorry, I don't buy that. If they were that concerned with his winning meaning the show is over, they wouldn't have had him win the Orange Islands or, heck, even the Battle Frontier. I know if I were the writers and I was that afraid of him winning a league, I'd STILL have him lose Orange Islands and the Battle Frontier.
                                      Even though he wins in Orange Islands and Battle Frontier, the writers had a mechanism in having Ash travel to the next region. Coincidentally, its the same character each time in Gary Oak but it conveniently worked. Gary deflates Ash's ego by wiping the floor with him after Orange Islands(Eevee kicks Pikachu's ass, spurring Ash to participate in the Johto League) and returns after Battle Frontier to bring Ash back down to Earth by bruising his ego again with a Pokemon(Electivire if memory serves) from Sinnoh(which pushed Ash to travel to Sinnoh).

                                      Even if Ash had won the Kalos League, there is still a reason for Ash to travel: To meet and catch more Pokemon while also battling and defeating strong rivals. The lone two times Ash has won, Gary has been there to prod him to keep going. If Ash had won Kalos(which everyone, including myself, thought was going to happen), who would have been that person to keep him from getting complacent? Certainly couldn't have been Gary as he's now in Sinnoh doing research(if memory serves) so who acts as the mechanism to keep Ash traveling if he had won? With him losing, as painful as that is, Ash has reason to keep traveling(although SM is really a downer so far).

                                      Anyways, to reel this back onto topic, keep the replies coming on which region you thought was the best.
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                                        #21    
                                      Old August 3rd, 2017 (6:33 PM). Edited August 3rd, 2017 by Piii.
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                                        Quote:
                                        Originally Posted by Videreludus View Post
                                        I actually think that Ash should have ended in Kanto and be replaced by Gold/Ethans anime counterpart in Johto.
                                        Ash story should have ended in Johto because that's were the anime still had life left in it. There wasn't any good reason for him to go to Hoenn/Sinnoh/Unova/Kalos, and Alola regions. To be honest The Original series might not have been perfect, but atleast he did developed and mature in both Kanto and Johto regions, they should have stop the show after Johto, because the later regions are all resets and there is no way he will ever improve because he got to start all over again, plus AG/DP ruin his character to the point that it seems like he never ages or even developed.
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                                          #22    
                                        Old August 3rd, 2017 (6:51 PM).
                                        Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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                                          Quote:
                                          Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                                          Yeah, sorry, I don't buy that. If they were that concerned with his winning meaning the show is over, they wouldn't have had him win the Orange Islands or, heck, even the Battle Frontier. I know if I were the writers and I was that afraid of him winning a league, I'd STILL have him lose Orange Islands and the Battle Frontier.
                                          I didn't ask you to reply to me with all due respect. Orange Island is not considered a big league like the others. BF also doesn't count as it not a league.
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                                            #23    
                                          Old August 3rd, 2017 (7:33 PM).
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                                          BettyNewbie BettyNewbie is offline
                                             
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                                            Quote:
                                            Originally Posted by Videreludus View Post
                                            I actually think that Ash should have ended in Kanto and be replaced by Gold/Ethans anime counterpart in Johto.
                                            The problem with doing that is the fact that the show planned from the beginning for Ash to continue on into Johto. (The fact that Ho-Oh appeared in the first episode was a pretty big clue.) That's why his performance in the League at the end of Kanto was so poor. The idea was for him to go hone his skills in Johto and then return to the Indigo Plateau as a stronger trainer and become Champion. His big finale would've also likely involved finally meeting Ho-Oh.

                                            Though, it is unfortunate that doing things this way still screws Jimmy out of ever starring in his own series. I would've tried to incorporate him into the Johto arc as a younger rival for Ash to mentor.

                                            Quote:
                                            Originally Posted by Piii View Post
                                            Ash story should have ended in Johto because that's were the anime still had life left in it. There wasn't any good reason for him to go Hoenn/Sinnoh/Unova/Kalos, and Alola regions. To be honest The Original series might not have been perfect, but atleast he did developed and mature in both Kanto and Johto regions, they should have stop the show after Johto, because the later regions are all resets and there is no way he will ever improve because he got to start all over again, plus AG/DP ruin his character to the point that it seems like he never ages or even developed.
                                            Exactly. GSC were direct sequels to RBY, so Ash's story continuing into Johto was justified. But, RSE hit the reset button and broke ties with the RBY/GSC continuity, so Ash really had no business going to Hoenn or any of the other later regions. They only reason he did was because the show didn't have the guts to replace him and his yellow rat after the backlash Tracey had gotten back in Orange.

                                            (Of course, they had no problem unceremoniously dumping Misty without closure, but that's another discussion for another time.)

                                            Many have forgotten, but Ash was originally meant to be the anime counterpart of Red, and Kanto/Johto are the only regions Red has any relevance to. The only reason Ash turned into this eternal 10 year old who never develops and always loses every League is because he was turned into a generic stand-in for the current gen's male PC. He is no longer his own character, but instead a featureless mascot and marketing tool.
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                                              #24    
                                            Old August 3rd, 2017 (9:07 PM).
                                            Piii's Avatar
                                            Piii Piii is offline
                                               
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                                              Quote:
                                              Originally Posted by BettyNewbie View Post
                                              The problem with doing that is the fact that the show planned from the beginning for Ash to continue on into Johto. (The fact that Ho-Oh appeared in the first episode was a pretty big clue.) That's why his performance in the League at the end of Kanto was so poor. The idea was for him to go hone his skills in Johto and then return to the Indigo Plateau as a stronger trainer and become Champion. His big finale would've also likely involved finally meeting Ho-Oh.

                                              Though, it is unfortunate that doing things this way still screws Jimmy out of ever starring in his own series. I would've tried to incorporate him into the Johto arc as a younger rival for Ash to mentor.


                                              Exactly. GSC were direct sequels to RBY, so Ash's story continuing into Johto was justified. But, RSE hit the reset button and broke ties with the RBY/GSC continuity, so Ash really had no business going to Hoenn or any of the other later regions. They only reason he did was because the show didn't have the guts to replace him and his yellow rat after the backlash Tracey had gotten back in Orange.

                                              (Of course, they had no problem unceremoniously dumping Misty without closure, but that's another discussion for another time.)

                                              Many have forgotten, but Ash was originally meant to be the anime counterpart of Red, and Kanto/Johto are the only regions Red has any relevance to. The only reason Ash turned into this eternal 10 year old who never develops and always loses every League is because he was turned into a generic stand-in for the current gen's male PC. He is no longer his own character, but instead a featureless mascot and marketing tool.

                                              Everything you said is true. I really think they could have done a lot more with Ash's character, because in the OS his character was starting to developed perfectly well until AG started to downgrade him into a poorly new rookie with no way to ever developed the right way, because he have to reset every new Generation region that he goes to.
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                                                #25    
                                              Old August 16th, 2017 (9:02 PM).
                                              Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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                                                Quote:
                                                Originally Posted by Piii View Post
                                                Gen 2 was meant to be a sequel to Gen 1, also they already plan all of the teams for both Kanto and Johto, so he didn't need to have a fully evolve Johto starter. Ash's Johto team were fairly decent and had some good battling time, Ash's Kanto team were really good and were decent pokemon.

                                                The show didn't really start to go downhill until both the AG/DP series started. May/Max and Dawn were the worst characters to ever appear in the anime.
                                                Wrong. There is no excuse for his gen 1 pokemon to mess up his gen 2 pokemon. And no, may and dawn were one of the best companions. The show started going down hill with unova. This is fact.

                                                If you are gonna reply like that to me then don't reply at all. I know which companion and series is bad.
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