Were you disappointed in no Z?

Sopheria said:

What disappoints me most about this is that, if they really do abandon Kalos and leave it unfinished the way it is now, I'd be worried they'll make a habit out of it and do the same thing with Sun & Moon. If there's any loose ends or unsolved mysteries in Sun & Moon, can we even be confident they'll ever be resolved? Maybe they won't repeat the same mistake, in which case, I don't really care too much that we didn't get Z. But the possibility just recently dawned on me that GameFreak might just say "Why bother making a complete story/region?" and this same thing will end up happening in future generations.

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I can understand your concern here, but honestly I don't think that'll happen. Game Freak have slowly been building on the story in their Pokemon titles for a while now; Platinum expanded on DPP's story significantly with the Distortion World, Black and White had a direct continuation of their plots in sequels, and ORAS, despite arguably being a step backwards when compared to Emerald, had the Delta Episode for postgame, which was very much a story-driven thing. I honestly can't see them abandoning Kalos at this juncture without fully resolving the Mega Evolution story thread and, even if they did, I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt this time around on account of it being the 20th Anniversary, and the need to get out a brand new generation to mark that occasion.

WingsofBliss said:

Exactly, this is my biggest fear as well. If they've officially abandoned making revamped 3rd versions and sequels like Platinum and BW2, then I hope that from now on the'll start making the Generational Starting Pair games(in this case SM) more "complete" and less half-baked. Which to be honest, that's what they should have been doing in the first place. I'm wondering if Nintendo got sick of Game Freak for following that formula for so long, and basically told them to do something different or else?

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This would be nice, but I can't see Nintendo ever doing that...after all, two versions equals double the money, and that's all Nintendo are really concerned about. It's profitable to make two versions, and then release a continuation down the line with the content we really should have had in the first versions of the games. As long as it's profitable, they'll keep doing it.

In a way you could even argue that it's better for us because, whilst we get half-baked titles, we get them regularly. Every time Nintendo makes a brand new title it takes them more than a year or two...look at how long we've been waiting for Zelda on Wii U, for example, or Star Fox Zero, or the new Paper Mario game. We might end up playing the same game twice over - which bothers the hell out of me too, don't get me wrong here - but we've been playing mothership Pokemon games on a nearly annual basis for 20 years ,with very rare gaps of a year at most. Even if it's a third version or a remake, we've still had something, which is more than can be said of Nintendo's other franchises.

Game Freak HAVE been deviating from the formula to a degree as well - after all, first we got B2W2, now we're getting Sun and Moon instead of Z, and they might not necessarily be seventh generation titles. It's not much of a deviation, admittedly, but they have been aiming not to deliver us the same content more than once since Platinum (if you allow for a slightly larger and different exploration of Unova in B2W2) and have stuck with that thus far.


tl;dr If they outright abandon the stray threads of Kalos' plot, I will be surprised. But not alarmed at this stage. If they do it again after Sun and Moon, THEN I'll be worried.

Meloetta said:

I can understand your concern here, but honestly I don't think that'll happen. Game Freak have slowly been building on the story in their Pokemon titles for a while now; Platinum expanded on DPP's story significantly with the Distortion World, Black and White had a direct continuation of their plots in sequels, and ORAS, despite arguably being a step backwards when compared to Emerald, had the Delta Episode for postgame, which was very much a story-driven thing. I honestly can't see them abandoning Kalos at this juncture without fully resolving the Mega Evolution story thread and, even if they did, I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt this time around on account of it being the 20th Anniversary, and the need to get out a brand new generation to mark that occasion.

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I can see where you are going with this. While most generations do end with most of their loose ends tied up, I can see why they wanted to jump straight into a new generation instead of finishing the Kalos story, given this is the 20th anniversary and they likely wouldn't have wanted to waste the opportunity. Maybe Sun & Moon's region will go back to doing what previous gens did and release a sequel (I wouldn't call a third version, but a B2/W2-esque sequel) so that the loose ends can be tied together.

Hikamaru said:

I can see where you are going with this. While most generations do end with most of their loose ends tied up, I can see why they wanted to jump straight into a new generation instead of finishing the Kalos story, given this is the 20th anniversary and they likely wouldn't have wanted to waste the opportunity. Maybe Sun & Moon's region will go back to doing what previous gens did and release a sequel (I wouldn't call a third version, but a B2/W2-esque sequel) so that the loose ends can be tied together.

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Quite possibly. Or they could be sequels to XY in the manner that GSC were to RBY in that they're an indirect continuation of the story, and so they won't need a third version or sequels. I don't think it's really the number of games that matters or their presentation so much as it is their content, and if Game Freak can cover story content in two loosely connected versions rather than two versions, a third version, two more versions, then ANOTHER third version or sequels before moving on to something new, I'd count that as a good thing. Just because these aren't immediately identifiable as Kalos-related titles doesn't mean that they aren't, though. Of course, it doesn't mean that they are either. But no sense panicking or lamenting over their fate until all is said and done and we have solid story details and/or copies in our hands, right?

There are plenty of ways in which Game Freak could conclude Kalos' storyline - hell, they could be prequels for all we know! - so it's not a lost cause just because we don't have Z or X2/Y2 or whatever. Personally, I'm not alarmed at the lack of third version or obvious sequels at this point in time, because both ideas have been done and I think it'd be just like GF to release indirect sequels right now as a way of shaking things up. Granted, they did that with GSC, but a lot of people drew parallels between XY and RBY, so it's not beyond the realm of possibilities in my opinion.

Sopheria said:

What disappoints me most about this is that, if they really do abandon Kalos and leave it unfinished the way it is now, I'd be worried they'll make a habit out of it and do the same thing with Sun & Moon. If there's any loose ends or unsolved mysteries in Sun & Moon, can we even be confident they'll ever be resolved? Maybe they won't repeat the same mistake, in which case, I don't really care too much that we didn't get Z. But the possibility just recently dawned on me that GameFreak might just say "Why bother making a complete story/region?" and this same thing will end up happening in future generations.

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This is exactly it. If the idea of "third versions" is done, but the "first games" of a generation continue to be lackluster, then what hope is there for any of the future games, really? We'd have to basically hope for remakes that take the "HGSS approach" rather than the "ORAS approach," and as much I love me some remakes I also want the new games to be worthwhile, too.

People may say it seems natural for Sun & Moon to have Kalos as a post-game region, combining the reasoning of X & Y's "incompleteness" along with it being an appropriate feature for a "20th anniversary game" to have. Heck, I agree with that. But I can't help but remember that each time a new gen is announced, one of the first questions on everyone's mind is, "how many regions will there be this time?" And the answer is always one, the only exception being in regards to gen 2-related games. So as logical as it may seem, it still may not happen.

And that can apply to anything, really: it seems logical for these games to have lots of content not only to "make up" for the lack of it throughout all of gen 6, but also because on the 20th anniversary, the games should be fairly "extravagant." But as logical as that may seem, it still may not happen.

It's definitely way too soon to say anything--this is something I understand completely. These games could blow the rest of the series out of the water in terms of its story and content; it may act as our "Pokémon Z" during the post-game and effectively "fix" the main issues of gen 6 despite being a gen 7 game. But since we all love Pokémon here, and we want to see it improve, it's only natural for us to worry about the worst-case scenario. And as of right now, the worst-case scenario can turn out pretty badly... That's just something none of us want to see happen.

I'll basically reiterate my point from my previous post here: it would take a major screw-up for "Pokémon Z" to be worse than X & Y. But the sad truth is, Sun & Moon could potentially be as lackluster, if not more so, than X & Y. And couple that with the idea that they may also never get any sort of "redemption" game past this point, and you've got some scary prospects...

But again, a disclaimer: I hope this never happens. I want to be wrong. I want Sun & Moon to be amazing. But I can't help but worry, since I love Pokémon so much and I want it to be as good as possible.

WingsofBliss said:

Exactly, this is my biggest fear as well. If they've officially abandoned making revamped 3rd versions and sequels like Platinum and BW2, then I hope that from now on the'll start making the Generational Starting Pair games(in this case SM) more "complete" and less half-baked. Which to be honest, that's what they should have been doing in the first place. I'm wondering if Nintendo got sick of Game Freak for following that formula for so long, and basically told them to do something different or else?

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I agree with this completely; except that, well, I don't know how likely it was that Nintendo told Game Freak to change up their "formula." It could have just been Game Freak doing what they could knowing that the games of gen 6 would have only one-year development cycles, but Sun & Moon would have closer to two.




Something else I kinda realized is that X & Y make so many references to gen 1, it's not even funny... maybe this would work out in Sun & Moon's favor, though. I know that it's the 20th anniversary of Red & Green specifically, so in that sense, ignoring the flaws of the games, X & Y could have actually been pretty good "anniversary" games in that regard: revamped in 3D for the first time, new battle mechanic (Mega Evolution) and Type, and the heavy focus on gen 1 in general. But if this means that Sun & Moon will focus on the entire series rather than just gen 1 (as it's also the 20th anniversary for the series as a whole, and I'd like for these games to celebrate that rather than just gen 1, which was essentially already done by X & Y), that could work out favorably (I hope). (I hope this made sense, ha ha.)

Not really, I just finished Y and to be honest is Zygarde and a new storyline are the only new things in a Z game I'd probably not even buy it.

I almost felt like Pokemon didn't do Z because it was too predictable.

I honestly wanted Z. With more Pokemon being added each generation, it would be nice to have more time to experiment with them all before new ones are added, as well as new mechanics and concepts (like fairy-type). Gen 3 and 4 were each 4 years, so I was hoping for Z this year and Gen 7 next year.

I don't think there is going to be a Pokemon Z. If there truly isn't I'll be depressed.

I'm on the fence right now.

I haven't yet lost hope that nothing will be done with Zygarde. I'd hope they wouldn't place emphasis on its new forms without giving it some kind of story representation in game. Other unresolved issues I'd hope they address are the Couriway train station, the other doors at the Kalos Power Plant, the "No, you're not the one" girl, and the AZ's Floette with Light of Ruin that was found in XY data. Considering how much still has yet to be explained I'd expect at least something.

OTOH, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did just decide to skip it. The reason they gave for not including the Battle Frontier in ORAS was that kids these days tend to hop from one game to another very quickly and that many of them probably wouldn't spend much time on the Frontier. Like someone else said, I'm worried that if they are completely done with everything related to Kalos that they'll continue with this in the future. Most of my enjoyment from the games comes from third versions and remakes, because the initial two feel empty in a lot of ways. (except with Gen 5)

Someone I know says that a Zygarde-focused game is unnecessary and that it doesn't need any backstory beyond "there's a monster living in a cave somewhere". However, I disagree. You could say the same for Rayquaza, Giratina, and Kyurem: they were third members of their trio who did nothing in the first two games other than stand at a place and be caught. They had a little exposition from their Pokedex entries about what they did, but we didn't really get to know them until Emerald/Platinum/B2W2. This same person also thinks that Kyurem was begging for an explanation, so I don't know why Zygarde wouldn't be as well.